View Full Version : Why do people poo-poo "black" as a tactical color option?
zippygaloo
12-26-08, 01:50
My AR is totally black. I still want to purchase a few other items but am on the fence about colors. I originally wanted to do a complete black gun (accessories and all). Why do people poo-poo "black" as a tactical color option. Is there something I should know.
Zippy,
Dare to be different.
BTW- Is your avatar meant to imply that rob_s is a clown? Just curious.
My AR is totally black. I still want to purchase a few other items but am on the fence about colors. I originally wanted to do a complete black gun (accessories and all). Why do people poo-poo "black" as a tactical color option. Is there something I should know. Can you help me decide? Keep in mind I'm in the Pacific Northwest.
Iraq Ninja
12-26-08, 03:53
Black is often too dark as a tactical color, even at night. It became popular many years ago for SWAT, but most people now consider it a poor choice.
Uniforms and color are often used today not to hide the user, but to identify them as being part of a unit or organization. This is often important in building clearing ops or any dynamic situation in which you need to quickly ID the good and bad guys. But, most of us want to blend in, so black is not a good choice.
It still may be a cool color, but cool and tactical don't always go well together.
Black guns are easily identified as being real guns by the general public. A krylon painted camouflage gun may buy you that moment of hesitation that you need. Heck, a blue or pink gun may do the same :)
Heck, a blue or pink gun may do the same :)
my wife's AR is red. you seen the duracoat colors? i'd sport a lime green 1911.
Its too dark even for night and is used for shock value, plus through NODs it tends to stand out.
Black rifles also get very hot in sunlight, especially in the desert etc;, hell even here in Florida on a summers day they can get so hot they are hard to handle just from sunlight
But its your rifle, you wanna black one, do it. I just prefer FDE
Jay Cunningham
12-26-08, 07:03
Black is very high contrast, even at night.
Black gets hot and holds the heat longer than a lighter color.
Black requires more effort to paint over than a lighter color.
Submariner
12-26-08, 07:13
Black is very high contrast, even at night.
Black gets hot and holds the heat longer than a lighter color.
Black requires more effort to paint over than a lighter color.
Making black a target indicator for most observation devices, including the Mk. 1 Mod. 0 eyeball.:cool:
Black and OD are horrible desert camo... especially at night.
That said... my guns are black, and my gear is OD. :rolleyes:
Littlelebowski
12-26-08, 07:48
Who cares? It's a weapon. Try doing a few fire team rushes and tell me what color your weapon is afterwards (hint: the color of the dirt beneath you). People over think this stuff way, way too much. Every unit I was in while serving as an active duty Marine grunt had the "gear queers." I'd trade 2 gear queers for one guy that can PT, go without sleep, and knows his tactics. It's not the gear, it's you.
It's not the gear, it's you.
That's heavy, man!
Robb Jensen
12-26-08, 08:03
Black and OD are horrible desert camo... especially at night.
That said... my guns are black, and my gear is OD. :rolleyes:
Old School Cool! ;)
Littlelebowski
12-26-08, 08:12
I don't argue the benefit of the different colors available for our weapons and gear but I think there is too much obsessing over trivial things like these and not enough on PT. I know a lot of people with nice, expensive packs they could not possibly load their SHTF loadout into and hike 25 miles with.
Jay Cunningham
12-26-08, 08:18
I don't argue the benefit of the different colors available for our weapons and gear but I think there is too much obsessing over trivial things like these and not enough on PT. I know a lot of people with nice, expensive packs they could not possibly load their SHTF loadout into and hike 25 miles with.
While I would tend to agree with you, that does not change the fact that new weapons submissions are pretty much all coming out standard in FDE.
I don't argue the benefit of the different colors available for our weapons and gear but I think there is too much obsessing over trivial things like these and not enough on PT. I know a lot of people with nice, expensive packs they could not possibly load their SHTF loadout into and hike 25 miles with.
I totally agree. That was the one thing that disgusted me about the other site... and the first AZ gathering/shoot!
I was stunned at all the fat goofballs that showed up. I don't go to those things anymore.
That said... obsessing on gear and toys is what we do in between actual shooting. Otherwise we wouldn't have much to post about on the forum. ;)
RAM Engineer
12-26-08, 08:23
Who cares? It's a weapon. Try doing a few fire team rushes and tell me what color your weapon is afterwards (hint: the color of the dirt beneath you). People over think this stuff way, way too much. Every unit I was in while serving as an active duty Marine grunt had the "gear queers." I'd trade 2 gear queers for one guy that can PT, go without sleep, and knows his tactics. It's not the gear, it's you.
Yeah, but this isn't PT.net, insomnia.net, or tactics.net...it's m4carbine.net! ;)
Littlelebowski
12-26-08, 08:24
I know, RAM Engineer. Time for me to get off the soapbox.
Robb Jensen
12-26-08, 08:25
I don't argue the benefit of the different colors available for our weapons and gear but I think there is too much obsessing over trivial things like these and not enough on PT. I know a lot of people with nice, expensive packs they could not possibly load their SHTF loadout into and hike 25 miles with.
Black is 'slimming', it makes your butt not appear big! :D
RogerinTPA
12-26-08, 08:31
I don't argue the benefit of the different colors available for our weapons and gear but I think there is too much obsessing over trivial things like these and not enough on PT. I know a lot of people with nice, expensive packs they could not possibly load their SHTF loadout into and hike 25 miles with.
Out of the ball park on that one. I have 2 FDE and 1 FG, but at the end of the day, who really cares? Dare to be different. If you like black, I say go for it.
Iraq Ninja
12-26-08, 08:32
PT is the not so obvious factor that many forget, along with the mindset to put the metal on the target when needed.
My gear choices are dictated by my situation. Over here, black is often associated with Security Contractors, by both the good guys and the bad guys. I don't want to be seen as one. Too much bad press these days. I want to look like the military if anything. Thus, coyote tan is the choice for me, along with a krylon painted rifle.
Gutshot John
12-26-08, 08:33
Like the dude said "sometimes you get the bar..." I agree with everything lB said.
1. There is an oft-stated belief that there is no "black" in nature. While technically true, what the human eye sees as black is an entirely different thing. Having hunted in the dense eastern woodlands, black is a commonly "seen" color.
2. The purpose of Camo is not to blend colors into the background, but rather break up the shape to look like anything other than what it is. A solid black rifle, silhouettes exactly as a solid black rifle. Throw in some bits of surrounding color, and at a distance, the black doesn't give the same silhouette.
3. Still FDE is a decidedly better base-color pick.
All that said having a black rifle isn't exactly like painting a bull's eye on your forehead if you've done everything else you can to prepare...like PT.
Littlelebowski
12-26-08, 08:37
There's also the factor that I can't color coordinate my clothing, let alone a rifle and my gear. If I was in a situation where I really needed the camouflage, I'd do as we did in the Corps and smear some mud on it. "Camouflage is continuous."
I will be swimming 1K meters later just to practice what I preach :D
Iraq Ninja
12-26-08, 08:57
There's also the factor that I can't color coordinate my clothing, let alone a rifle and my gear. If I was in a situation where I really needed the camouflage, I'd do as we did in the Corps and smear some mud on it. "Camouflage is continuous."
I will be swimming 1K meters later just to practice what I preach :D
Dirt and dust are good:
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d127/Iraqninja/111306sf3.jpg
Sometimes you just have to piece your equipment together for functionality rather than fashion:
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d127/Iraqninja/cool-dudes.jpg
Iraq Ninja
12-26-08, 09:07
Camouflage is often not what is hidden, but what your eyes go to first. I think there is a black rifle in this pic somewhere..
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d127/Iraqninja/Untitled8.jpg
Littlelebowski
12-26-08, 09:08
While I would tend to agree with you, that does not change the fact that new weapons submissions are pretty much all coming out standard in FDE.
Not sure what that has to do with the argument against people obsessing over trivial stuff unless you're saying manufacturers have become "enlightened." Anyway, it's a good thing in my book. FDE is a better base color.
My AR is totally black. I still want to purchase a few other items but am on the fence about colors. I originally wanted to do a complete black gun (accessories and all). Why do people poo-poo "black" as a tactical color option. Is there something I should know. Can you help me decide? Keep in mind I'm in the Pacific Northwest.
Pat Rogers always said that black anything was a bad idea and called it "Target Indicator Black."
I personally have some black AR's, some ones in FDE, OD and FG. If you are of the tinfoil/bugout group, have your weapon match your surrounding landscape.
C4
Jay Cunningham
12-26-08, 09:27
Not sure what that has to do with the argument against people obsessing over trivial stuff unless you're saying manufacturers have become "enlightened." Anyway, it's a good thing in my book. FDE is a better base color.
I think that we are just talking past each other a little. The OP's question was Why do people poo-poo "black" as a tactical color option? and people were giving him some reasons why and you sort of went off on a tangent - a valid one, but a tangent nonetheless.
CarlosDJackal
12-26-08, 09:41
As someone smarter than I once said: "Black is a good target indicator." Basically, it provides a great aiming point at most distances. YMMV.
The human eye tend to focus on an object based on a few factors. The ones I can remember are: movement, shape, shine, contrast, and color. Four of these are met by a black rifle (or most any gear that does not blend in).
Long ago in Rhodesia, when they captured the rebels and "debriefed" them one of the things mentioned was the immediate recognition of the black rifles in the bush. They started painting them thereafter I'm told.
militarymoron
12-26-08, 11:42
Black gets hot and holds the heat longer than a lighter color.
partially right, there. black absorbs and radiates heat better than a lighter colour. left in the sun, a black rifle will heat up more than a light gun, but will also cool off faster in the shade. a light colour will hold the heat longer because it's not as efficient a radiator.
given that the temperature from leaving a gun sitting in the sun is much lower than the temperature caused by firing the weapon and heating it up, a black barrel and handguard will dissipate that heat quicker than a light one (stainless-coloured barrel).
Jay Cunningham
12-26-08, 11:43
partially right, there. black absorbs and radiates heat better than a lighter colour. left in the sun, a black rifle will heat up more than a light gun, but will also cool off faster in the shade. a light colour will hold the heat longer because it's not as efficient a radiator.
given that the temperature from leaving a gun sitting in the sun is much lower than the temperature caused by firing the weapon and heating it up, a black barrel and handguard will dissipate that heat quicker than a light one (stainless-coloured barrel).
Next you're going to start talking about albedo!
My AR is totally black. I still want to purchase a few other items but am on the fence about colors. I originally wanted to do a complete black gun (accessories and all). Why do people poo-poo "black" as a tactical color option. Is there something I should know. Can you help me decide? Keep in mind I'm in the Pacific Northwest.
Who cares what other people think as "tacticool"? It's your rifles. Do what you like with them.
I think the_katar may have been reffering to the Heat Signature that a Warm Weapon will give off when being observed through FLIR or other infrared systems? Would this be a correct assumption on my part?
This thread has given me alot to think about as currently my rifle and sidearm are both still in the black. Time to get out the paint rig.
Heavy Metal
12-26-08, 12:05
Next you're going to start talking about albedo!
How about black body radiation?
Sometimes you just have to piece your equipment together for functionality rather than fashion:
LoL +1 I had a black ballistic vest carrier, a 3 color desert rig with a mix of woodland, coyote and OD pouches on it
zippygaloo
12-26-08, 13:07
Sometimes you just have to piece your equipment together for functionality rather than fashion:
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d127/Iraqninja/cool-dudes.jpg
Minus the second from the left, THOSE LOOK LIKE ALL BLACK RIFLES!
LB, makes a lot of good points. There are many that "obsess" over trivial things, while not thinking about mastering the basics.
But,
How about a gear queer that can PT, stay alert, shoot, move and communicate?
This is like on other forums, when someone asks "whats the best JHP for a 9mm" we then hear all the flippant and condescending cliches about "shot placement is everything". Perhaps the one asking knows that, and now simply wants to make the perfect shot with the best bullet possible.
On forums such as this one, and a few other more "professional" ones, I like to at least pretend the guy asking the question is already tracking on what LB is talking about, and now wants to further enhance that.
Didn't LAV once say something to the effect of "IF you can't hit a 5" bull, you have no business learning to shoot under a car"?
BTW, black, while maybe not optimal is no show stopper. Everywhere I've worked the issue gun and gear was black, only at my current employment do we have a little leeway in gear, but most of whats issued is ACU/coyote/OD, guns are still black.
Bob
militarymoron
12-26-08, 13:41
Next you're going to start talking about albedo!
LOL - i'm a nerd, but not THAT much of a super nerd. i don't think i've heard that word since college :D
i can think of some good ways to start using it more though:
"you know him too? good old Al Bedo from the old neighbourhood. he's running the family business now, i hear."
"my albedo's still pretty high for an old guy - the wife and i still do it twice a week"
"remember that albedo from high school? he had to cover up his white skin and avoid the sun? ya, that guy".
Zippy,
BTW- Is your avatar meant to imply that rob_s is a clown? Just curious.
curious about that too....
zippygaloo
12-26-08, 14:24
delete
Zippy,
I am curious about YOUR avatar not Rob's
Bill
I am asking you since you hijacked his avatar and are using a chinese knock off copy of his website.
Why don't you ask Rob.
I paint most all my rifles for the simple reason that they get damn hot in the sun at 10,000 ft
Even when they are not being shot;)
I do not worry much about color co-ordination though
And I also agree with the PT comments
I guess the question is: Why do people poo poo on zippygaloo?
Black is 'slimming', it makes your butt not appear big! :D
That's very important in todays world of designer AR-15s.
No "tacticool" operator would be caught dead with AR accessories
that don't match.
Survey says; Read some of his posts.
I guess the question is: Why do people poo poo on zippygaloo?
I've never seen black blend into something that another color couldn't do better, and black gets hot in a Florida sun. :eek:
-B
partially right, there. black absorbs and radiates heat better than a lighter colour. left in the sun, a black rifle will heat up more than a light gun, but will also cool off faster in the shade. a light colour will hold the heat longer because it's not as efficient a radiator.
given that the temperature from leaving a gun sitting in the sun is much lower than the temperature caused by firing the weapon and heating it up, a black barrel and handguard will dissipate that heat quicker than a light one (stainless-coloured barrel).
I'm not too sure about this, while I totally agree a black object will absorb more energy than a nonblack object given the same radiation source, I don't think you can say something black radiates heat better than something not black. Consider a black piece of metal and a silver piece of metal (all same except for color) at some temperature T, and the environment is at some lower temperature T'. Say it is in some isolated place such that there is no incident EM radiation, but not vacuum such that there is temperature in the surrounding. It seems to me that the heat flow rate is governed only by the temperature difference (T-T'), not anything else (a la "Newton's Law of Cooling"). Correct me if I'm wrong.
The only thing that being black dictates is that there is very little reflected light. In the "blackbody" limit, all impinging light is absorbed, non reflected, so we can be assured that all radiation from the blackbody is due to thermal radiation, not due to reflection.
Never been a problem for me...........
Never been a problem for me...........
because you're not dead? that's kind of like saying "i've never been in a crash, so why would i wear a seatbelt?"
the perspective around here is generally that of a combat/military point of view- i, for one, expect that even a lot of "normal" people are going to need to use their ARs for combat at some point in the nearish future... sort of makes sense to have a combat-ready paper-puncher.
militarymoron
12-26-08, 20:40
I'm not too sure about this, while I totally agree a black object will absorb more energy than a nonblack object given the same radiation source, I don't think you can say something black radiates heat better than something not black. Consider a black piece of metal and a silver piece of metal (all same except for color) at some temperature T, and the environment is at some lower temperature T'. Say it is in some isolated place such that there is no incident EM radiation, but not vacuum such that there is temperature in the surrounding. It seems to me that the heat flow rate is governed only by the temperature difference (T-T'), not anything else (a la "Newton's Law of Cooling"). Correct me if I'm wrong.
The only thing that being black dictates is that there is very little reflected light. In the "blackbody" limit, all impinging light is absorbed, non reflected, so we can be assured that all radiation from the blackbody is due to thermal radiation, not due to reflection.
as i understand it, heat transfer due to thermal radiation is also dependant on emissivity of the material. the surface emissivity of a material is compared to the emissive power of a black body, and will be a number less than 1. the closer to a black body the object is, the higher the emissivity and the heat per unit of time emitted by the object.
with newton's law of cooling, besides the temperature difference, there's also the heat transfer coefficient, which is the constant in question.
that's a good point of discussion, though, and makes me question if what i have been 'taught' to understand all along is correct over the years.
with a gun/barrel/component, there's going to be radiative heat transfer plus convective heat transfer (the medium is the surrounding air), so that complicated things so it isn't as simple to solve (for me). i've always understood dark objects to be good absorbers/radiators of heat and light ones less so, and may allow an object to cool at a faster rate - but the difference is going to be minor between them.
i, for one, expect that even a lot of "normal" people are going to need to use their ARs for combat at some point in the nearish future...
care to explain the above statement?
zippygaloo
12-26-08, 20:56
delete
care to explain the above statement?
the sky is falling- haven't you heard?
Alpha Sierra
12-26-08, 21:06
Parkerized steel, oiled walnut, and OD green webbing is tactical.
Parkerized steel, oiled walnut, and OD green webbing is tactical.
Thank You.
Sometimes I feel like I'm the only person left who feels that way.
Let me help. He means that a lot of "normal" people are going to need to use their ARs for combat at some point in the nearish future
Zippy Zippy Zippy.....I dont care what they say about you......You're allright :D
bkb0000,
Have you met Zippy yet?
Bill
Flash Point
12-26-08, 22:21
This whole conversation is just silly. As if having this color or that color on every piece of gear you have will turn you into some mystical unseen invincible tactical ninja. 90% of this shit is marketing for profit. Next year there will be some new color that everyone will just have to have. Our fighting men who marched all the way from Normandy to Berlin sure as hell weren't this meticulous, and they got the job done.
Our fighting men who marched all the way from Normandy to Berlin sure as hell weren't this meticulous, and they got the job done.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that's a pretty bad argument to make, considering the losses suffered by our fighting men during said march. Not being a soldier myself, I'm going to also go out on a limb and say that I'd rather have camouflage than not, and if I'm going to be shot at, it's by someone who can't see me as well or at all. The older generations of soldiers might have done it with what they had, but that doesn't mean their methods can't be improved upon.
I also maintain that black guns get hot quick under direct sun. Just sayin'.
-B
This whole conversation is just silly. As if having this color or that color on every piece of gear you have will turn you into some mystical unseen invincible tactical ninja. 90% of this shit is marketing for profit. Next year there will be some new color that everyone will just have to have. Our fighting men who marched all the way from Normandy to Berlin sure as hell weren't this meticulous, and they got the job done.
yea, and 416,000 US dead proves it.
zippygaloo
12-26-08, 23:00
[B]So I guess this black accoutrement is no good?[/B
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/00684/segway-anti-terror_684090n.jpg
I can see it now at a Vickers course/class :)
HEY where did bob go ? he was just here a second ago !! I wish that guy did not camo out his rifle I can never see/find him !!!
Iraq Ninja
12-27-08, 08:13
This whole conversation is just silly.
Not silly at all. As pointed out in this conversation, black has little tactical value and can in fact be detrimental. It is not silly to those of us whose occupations involve getting shot at. This ain't no game and I want every advantage I can get. I only wear black at funerals.
Oh, and I feel that the majority of the major gear manufactures are driven to produce quality equipment for the real end users, be it military, LEO, etc.
I can see it now at a Vickers course/class :)
HEY where did bob go ? he was just here a second ago !! I wish that guy did not camo out his rifle I can never see/find him !!!
Funny you say that...
At a class earlier this month one of the participants was sitting in a chair totally outfitted in multicam. I actually swept the guy with my (unloaded) carbine because I didn't see him against the grass. Yes, my situational awareness sucked at that moment and if I had taken the time to really look I would have seen him, AND he was sitting somewhere he probably shouldn't have been and I didn't expect him to be, but that multicam stuff really worked in that environment!
RogerinTPA
12-27-08, 09:37
Looks like a target rich environment to me, but the guy with the camo rifle would be the last one I'd shoot.:p
So I guess this black accoutrement is no good?
That guy in the back with the camo painted rifle does stick out like a sore thumb! I'm sure he would be the first to get spotted.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/00684/segway-anti-terror_684090n.jpg
as i understand it, heat transfer due to thermal radiation is also dependant on emissivity of the material. the surface emissivity of a material is compared to the emissive power of a black body, and will be a number less than 1. the closer to a black body the object is, the higher the emissivity and the heat per unit of time emitted by the object.
with newton's law of cooling, besides the temperature difference, there's also the heat transfer coefficient, which is the constant in question.
that's a good point of discussion, though, and makes me question if what i have been 'taught' to understand all along is correct over the years.
with a gun/barrel/component, there's going to be radiative heat transfer plus convective heat transfer (the medium is the surrounding air), so that complicated things so it isn't as simple to solve (for me). i've always understood dark objects to be good absorbers/radiators of heat and light ones less so, and may allow an object to cool at a faster rate - but the difference is going to be minor between them.
You are totally correct there, I guess I goofed earlier. The radiative method of heat transfer is in fact the mode which does depend on "blackbodyness." Here is a good image (http://ceos.cnes.fr:8100/cdrom-98/ceos1/science/baphygb/chap3/image11a.gif) demonstrating militarymoron's point. I think its called Stefan's law or something like that.
I think in the case of a gun barrel, though, convective heat transfer (which is in fact what Newton's law of cooling models) dominates. According to wiki, the Newton law goes like n(T-T'), for n the convective coefficient (n on the order of 10 for air), while the Stefan law goes like es(T^4 - T'^4), s on the order of 10^-8 and e the efficiency militarymoron mentioned. So for the same T and T', the convective mode dissipates heat at a rate 5 orders of magnitude greater, since e is always of order 1ish.
Which is why it seemed somewhat counter intuitive to me to think the color of the gun barrel would effect its cooling, but it is nevertheless true.
I can see it now at a Vickers course/class :)
HEY where did bob go ? he was just here a second ago !! I wish that guy did not camo out his rifle I can never see/find him !!!
My favorite part of bow hunting when I was growing up in Michigan was watching other hunters almost walk over me without knowing I was there
And that was back before all this hi-tech camo
militarymoron
12-27-08, 11:19
I think in the case of a gun barrel, though, convective heat transfer (which is in fact what Newton's law of cooling models) dominates. According to wiki, the Newton law goes like n(T-T'), for n the convective coefficient (n on the order of 10 for air), while the Stefan law goes like es(T^4 - T'^4), s on the order of 10^-8 and e the efficiency militarymoron mentioned. So for the same T and T', the convective mode dissipates heat at a rate 5 orders of magnitude greater, since e is always of order 1ish.
i agree - compared with convective cooling, the radiative heat transfer due to barrel colour is much, much less of a factor. thanks for the discussion and making my brain hurt. :D
Flash Point
12-27-08, 20:01
yea, and 416,000 US dead proves it.
You're implying that they wouldn't have been killed had they been wearing flat dark earth? Are you also equating Iraq/Afghanistan with the size and scope of WWII? There were several reasons why the casualty rates on both sides were extremely high, the least (if at all) being the color of a rifle.
:rolleyes:
You're implying that they wouldn't have been killed had they been wearing flat dark earth? Are you also equating Iraq/Afghanistan with the size and scope of WWII? There were several reasons why the casualty rates on both sides were extremely high, the least (if at all) being the color of a rifle.
:rolleyes:
are you going to tell me that we wouldn't have had less KIA if we'd appreciated proper camoflage?
M4tographer
12-27-08, 22:09
are you going to tell me that we wouldn't have had less KIA if we'd appreciated proper camoflage?
The Germans and the Japanese did...and last time I checked I'm pretty sure we won. :D
i guess the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month didn't bother you guys.
i'd rather us win a war with 104,853 dead than 104,854. its not about winning, its about keeping people alive.
M4tographer
12-27-08, 22:28
i guess the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month didn't bother you guys.
i'd rather us win a war with 104,853 dead than 104,854. its not about winning, its about keeping people alive.
We could argue that better training would have helped them, too. I'd say we did a damned fine job considering the relatively short notice we had. ;)
In AZ in the summer, black rifles get hotter faster and stay hotter longer. Take from that what you will.
Chris
We could argue that better training would have helped them, too. I'd say we did a damned fine job considering the relatively short notice we had. ;)
and we HAVE better training today. we also have better camoflage. and both save lives- so why would anyone resist it?
M4tographer
12-27-08, 23:40
and we HAVE better training today. we also have better camoflage. and both save lives- so why would anyone resist it?
Camo and tech...which is why we don't have as many relative casualties as before. I believe we'd have less if there weren't as many suits running things. That's another road though. :p
QuickStrike
12-28-08, 00:37
So I guess this black accoutrement is no good?
That guy in the back with the camo painted rifle does stick out like a sore thumb! I'm sure he would be the first to get spotted.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/00684/segway-anti-terror_684090n.jpg
what rifle? :confused:
:p
I don't know much about anything, and I am sure 99.9% of you, if not more, have more real experience than I, but here goes...
Whatever color furniture you have (black, FDE, OD, whatever), why not paint it whatever color suits your fancy or operating conditions at the moment?
If your op area is one solid color, and only one solid color (i.e. the Arctic), paint your rifle that color. If your op area is a pattern of colors (i.e. the forrest), paint your rifle in an outline-breaking pattern or similar colors.
Whatever color you buy from the manufacturer is just the base. I've seen samples on this board of rifles painted in true camo patterns. These were works of art.
So I guess this black accoutrement is no good?
That guy in the back with the camo painted rifle does stick out like a sore thumb! I'm sure he would be the first to get spotted.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/00684/segway-anti-terror_684090n.jpg
shows how observant you guys are, there are TWO camo rifles!
:D
just to say I hope those read my reply as poking fun ;)
I do believe if its your job to hide or be invisible then do everything possible
if you are into classes and training then do what you like for sure
if you just plink at the range or gravel pit who cares again do what you like
my buddies and I used to go into the hills with ghillie suits and or whatever camo and try to hide from each other actually was quite fun to do that and hide from tourists to see how close you could get to them :)
XXXBadd DaddyXXX
12-28-08, 16:19
So I guess this black accoutrement is no good?
That guy in the back with the camo painted rifle does stick out like a sore thumb! I'm sure he would be the first to get spotted.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/00684/segway-anti-terror_684090n.jpg
What is this, the Swiss and their new SWAT Team.
Tactical Segways Roll Out......SLOWLY!!!
I guess the bad guys would fall down laughing if they saw those guys coming at them :)
or be on the upside of a small hill of ice ;) and just wave good-bye
I don't argue the benefit of the different colors available for our weapons and gear but I think there is too much obsessing over trivial things like these and not enough on PT. I know a lot of people with nice, expensive packs they could not possibly load their SHTF loadout into and hike 25 miles with.
Hehe, I hurt some guys' feelings on TOS when they asked "Hi, I'm 5'9 and about 360, but I used to play football... So who makes gear that will fit me?" I asked if they were even fit enough to E&E to the end of the block, and they got all butt hurt. One guy actually claimed that while he was heavy and not very fit, he made up for that with exceptional shooting skills and deep seated tactical knowledge.
Hehe, I hurt some guys' feelings on TOS when they asked "Hi, I'm 5'9 and about 360, but I used to play football... So who makes gear that will fit me?" I asked if they were even fit enough to E&E to the end of the block, and they got all butt hurt. One guy actually claimed that while he was heavy and not very fit, he made up for that with exceptional shooting skills and deep seated tactical knowledge.
Knowledge is power. ;)
Im a big guy myself and recently put myself on a diet to control it better...less fatty stuff...more veggies and fruit. Moved up two notches on the belt so far. Hitting the gym here at work during lunchtime instead of running out to wendy's helps too.
militarymoron
12-29-08, 14:44
deep seated tactical knowledge.
this means 'shooting off the bench'.
What is this, the Swiss and their new SWAT Team.
Tactical Segways Roll Out......SLOWLY!!!
I thought it was China, actually...
I've seen mall cops and gun show vendors on these little segway things. How they balance on them is beyond me (I busted my ass pretty hard my first and only time on one), but hey, if they can maybe the "shock and awe" will work in their favor. Tactical "WHAT THE-!", or something.
-B
Funny you say that...
At a class earlier this month one of the participants was sitting in a chair totally outfitted in multicam. I actually swept the guy with my (unloaded) carbine because I didn't see him against the grass. Yes, my situational awareness sucked at that moment and if I had taken the time to really look I would have seen him, AND he was sitting somewhere he probably shouldn't have been and I didn't expect him to be, but that multicam stuff really worked in that environment!
I'm calling BS on this! It is because you are old and going blind.
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