View Full Version : Carry Triggers
Back in the day, I used to carry my Hi Power in a stiff leather holster cocked and unlocked. Because at stress and speed maybe 1 time in 100 or even more I would miss that little tiny safety. I talked to a friend of mine that was in the SAS and very active in Northern Ireland and he told me he did the same as did others in the unit in that environment.
Time marches on and Glocks come on the scene and then more time passes and we have cops using the 2011. Of course we had cops and units all through the years using 1911 and also Hi Powers.
Today we have Kydex holsters, as a matter of fact I no longer own a leather holster for a pistol.
I have got good triggers in my Hyena and Jackal pistols, AKA my no longer Glock, Glocks in 357 sig.
I am researching better connectors and 100% of the reviewers say the 3 pound connector is too light for carry. But yet some of these same guys are in love with the 1911/2011.
I just don't get it.
Why is a light trigger good in a 1911/2011 but dangerous in a Glock?
My trigger finger no matter what platform I carry only goes to the trigger when it is time to shoot. Carried in a Kydex holster I don't see a problem. Also if you are going to have a ND in a Glock it will not matter what trigger weight is in the gun you will have it go bang.
I just don't get it.
Why is a light trigger good in a 1911/2011 but dangerous in a Glock?
I guess the safety buys a few pounds of lightness (psychologically speaking). I guarantee the LE here have to use the safety, but I get what you're saying. The same thing happens here with patrol rifle. The deputies can't have a hot chamber in the rifle, even though they do in the pistol.
My trigger finger no matter what platform I carry only goes to the trigger when it is time to shoot. Carried in a Kydex holster I don't see a problem. Also if you are going to have a ND in a Glock it will not matter what trigger weight is in the gun you will have it go bang.
I agree. I'm less comfy with a light trigger on the Glock, personally, because there's no grip safety or manual safety. So, for me, clothing snagging on a reholster is an outside change for an ND.
The deputies can't have a hot chamber in the rifle, even though they do in the pistol.
.
If we weren't on a hit, we also carried the rifles condition 3. Which I really don't have an issue with. I think LE in the USA the vast majority do the same with the shotguns.
Yeah. I remember my Dad telling me about a fellow Highway Patrolman who blew a hole in the floor of his patrol car with a shotgun many years back.
It was at shift change for our patrol units, I was working street crimes at the time. My partner and I were just getting into our rented little what ever it was Japanese car, when out of the marked patrol car next to our boom. We both ducked and came up with our pistols out.
It seems the FTO asked his boot if he had checked the shotgun, boot said yes and reached over and pulled the trigger. Thank G-D it was in the shotgun rack so the only damage was to a patrol car roof and the end of the line for the boot.
That must have been fairly loud in the actual vehicle.
john armond
12-23-22, 08:23
I’ve also seen shotguns back in the day when they were mounted muzzle up used as ashtrays and garbage cans for candy wrappers.
As far as the original question, personally I reverted back to all metal and DA/SA with decock only or DAO for carry on semi autos. The J-Frame is DAO. My J-frame or DAO pistol are only carried a couple times a year when my clothes necessitate. Usually a suit or tuxedo.
Personally I was always low right when shooting any Glock I either owned or department issued. I gave up on them and tried other plastic framed pistols but found I shot better with a heavier pistol. I always holstered everything with my thumb on the rear of the slide or hammer as a result of carrying a revolver or DA/SA on duty when I started, even the glocks. It’s probably just a psychological thing, but I like that part of a DA/SA or DAO (with hammer of course) carry pistol.
That must have been fairly loud in the actual vehicle.
It was winter and dark, windows in the car were up. In the seconds after the guys in the car were really stunned by it
Back in the day, I used to carry my Hi Power in a stiff leather holster cocked and unlocked. Because at stress and speed maybe 1 time in 100 or even more I would miss that little tiny safety. I talked to a friend of mine that was in the SAS and very active in Northern Ireland and he told me he did the same as did others in the unit in that environment.
Time marches on and Glocks come on the scene and then more time passes and we have cops using the 2011. Of course we had cops and units all through the years using 1911 and also Hi Powers.
Today we have Kydex holsters, as a matter of fact I no longer own a leather holster for a pistol.
I have got good triggers in my Hyena and Jackal pistols, AKA my no longer Glock, Glocks in 357 sig.
I am researching better connectors and 100% of the reviewers say the 3 pound connector is too light for carry. But yet some of these same guys are in love with the 1911/2011.
I just don't get it.
Why is a light trigger good in a 1911/2011 but dangerous in a Glock?
My trigger finger no matter what platform I carry only goes to the trigger when it is time to shoot. Carried in a Kydex holster I don't see a problem. Also if you are going to have a ND in a Glock it will not matter what trigger weight is in the gun you will have it go bang.
I'm assuming due one having a manual safety and one not. For myself, would not CCW a 1911 with the safety off. Not shot a Glock with a 3lb trigger. 1911s with light short striggers, Glocks with ultra light triggers, probably not a good idea for all but experienced well trained shooters perhaps, which is probably 1% of those carrying pistols.
I'd say those in the SAS, Israeli SOF, etc with experience and training can carry such things with a high degree of safety. The rest of us plebs, maybe not so much?
It was very interesting when my friend from the SAS and I talked about Northern Ireland and our situation with Palestinians occupying our land and how we both approached being inside a hostile population in an under cover operation.
Both places had non elite soldiers off duty or in civilian clothes get pulled out of vehicles by a mob of blood thirsty terrorist. We both had the same view of what to do if set on by such a band of savages, head shots on as many as possible as fast as possible. We both said head shots for the effect on the mob over body shots which clothing could lessen the dramatic effect. I don't remember this 100% but I seem to recall we both carried very hot 9mm ammo in our Hi Powers
The majority of 1911’s that I’ve reviewed had trigger weights of approximately 4 pounds. I’m only speaking of 1911’s for carry. My competition 1911’s averaged 2 pounds. If someone says a Glock minus connector is unsafe to use in a Glock for carry, my response is that they are misinformed. (Being nice here) I have many glocks with the Glock minus connector (used to be called the 3.5 and then 4.5). The trigger pull weight overall is always around 5 pounds give or take.
I see nothing wrong with the minus connector.
Cheers, Steve
Even in very select units there are opinions about triggers and safeties, many developed as new/young troopers and their training cadre's presentation. You can imagine, there were/are preferences between the 1911 to Beretta, and 1911 to Glock transitions.
When I run into older operator friends and the new kids and I want to know what era or their duty entry dates I have to ask, ".45s or Glock?" "45 or Beretta?" "Beretta or Glock?" or "Glock or SIG?"
Troops often self-police if the unit has a public, enforced "Return to (original) Unit" RTU policy for an ND, or for an ND with blue-on-blue casualty ("Never to Return," or NTR).
Big Boy Rules Apply -- carry what you want, know the consequences. "Yeah, he seemed like an OK dude. Shame he couldn't control his finger."
ViniVidivici
12-23-22, 10:56
Things change, we evolve.
When I carried 1911s, I said I'd never carry a pistol with no safety.
Then I said I'd never carry a pistol with no safety AIWB, yet here I am, G19 up front.
My 1911s always had stock triggers. I'd never carry one safety-off, but I always insisted on large paddles, on BOTH sides of the gun.
When I transitioned to Glocks, I used the NY1 trigger spring w/ standard connector, for a perceived margin of safety, for a few years/thousands of rounds.
Finally admitted to myself that trigger sucked, and held me back.
What I've settled on for gen2 and gen3 guns is a "-" connector (prefer the Zev Pro-con, but Ghost is good too) paired with the NY1 spring. Nice, even, "rolling" press, very positive reset. This is my great preferrence at this time, and in the guns I most often carry and shoot.
No idea in pull weight, never owned a trigger scale.
Gen4 guns remain stock, as this modification generates too heavy a pull.
No interest whatsoever in the SCD, and not willing to spend money/time/rounds on aftermarket triggers, I spend that on ammo and train.
I've tried a stock trigger spring w/ "-" connector, and hell yes it's light, made certain drills a breeze, and made things a bit easier, accuracy-wise, but I just don't like how light it feels, on a "working gun", for all the obvious "working gun" reasons.
To each their own (for those of us not limited by beaurocracy), it's all about YOUR own use cases, and YOUR level of training, confidence and experience.
Even in very select units there are opinions about triggers and safeties, many developed as new/young troopers and their training cadre's presentation. You can imagine, there were/are preferences between the 1911 to Beretta, and 1911 to Glock transitions.
Indeed. I recently had a conversation with a SOIDC that strongly feels that a (holstered) decocked Beretta with the lever on “fire” is unsafe, but a Glock is fine.
Ironically, he’s really into Berettas in his personal stuff.
Not everyone is going to always agree on everything.
I keep my triggers heavy enough to feel pressure when pulling it, even when cold and under stress, while moving/running. Also while wearing light gloves.
Ive had 3-ish lb triggers fire when i was trying to prep cause i couldnt feel that i was already taking up slack. Yeah it was at the range and on target, but not where I wanted as the sight was still settling. I run "-" or " . " connectors on my gen4 and 5 which I think is 4-4.5lb and is the sweet spot for me.
What I've settled on for gen2 and gen3 guns is a "-" connector (prefer the Zev Pro-con, but Ghost is good too) paired with the NY1 spring. Nice, even, "rolling" press, very positive reset. This is my great preferrence at this time, and in the guns I most often carry and shoot.
I've arrived at the same point. I don't trust aftermarket parts on Glocks, so even going to the NY1 and "-" worried me. 8 years later and it's never been an issue. I moved to a Gen 4 and it was close enough to the modified Gen 3 that I didn't mess with it.
I keep my striker fired guns stock.....only one of my 1911s has a trigger upgrade and gunsmith trigger job.
I thought about the Overwatch Precision trigger that Yoni installed on his Glock, but decided against it.....
I don't trust aftermarket parts on Glocks
Agreed.
I keep my striker fired guns stock.
And Agreed. I've never seen major issues with any of them, but I'm very dubious about most aftermarket gun gizmos... erroring on the side of reliability and safety.
I keep my striker fired guns stock.....only one of my 1911s has a trigger upgrade and gunsmith trigger job.
I thought about the Overwatch Precision trigger that Yoni installed on his Glock, but decided against it.....
Yup, all my handgun triggers are stock except some of my Berettas. I’m not convinced that there’s really much to be gained.
….I have many glocks with the Glock minus connector (used to be called the 3.5 and then 4.5). The trigger pull weight overall is always around 5 pounds give or take.
I see nothing wrong with the minus connector….
Yep. The minus connector makes the trigger smoother, but the trigger pull is about 5 pounds, maybe a little less, but around that.
I guess the safety buys a few pounds of lightness (psychologically speaking). I guarantee the LE here have to use the safety, but I get what you're saying. The same thing happens here with patrol rifle. The deputies can't have a hot chamber in the rifle, even though they do in the pistol.
I agree. I'm less comfy with a light trigger on the Glock, personally, because there's no grip safety or manual safety. So, for me, clothing snagging on a reholster is an outside change for an ND.Clothing causing an ND is actually caused by laziness.
It takes a maximum of two seconds to turn your head to see if xyz is blocking the holster.
Agreed.
And Agreed. I've never seen major issues with any of them, but I'm very dubious about most aftermarket gun gizmos... erroring on the side of reliability and safety.
Every glock ive seen go down was right after the shooter talked about how great the afrermarket trigger was.
For me, a hard wall ****s me up, so i dislike crisp triggers... just blow through the mush, and repeat.
There's a study out there from Force Science Institute that they term UNINTENTIONAL DISCHARGES, meaning you didn't intend to pull the trigger.
Without the numbers in front of me, roughly 60-65% where from manipulations(loading, unloading, etc.) Roughly 20% covering suspects, don't recall the lesser ones. This is from LE work. What did not matter was the weight of the trigger. Now it's rather obvious that the finger was on the trigger for the weapon to fire and if safety equipped, had to be off.
My former agency had a pretty solid program but on occasion we would have someone who didn't respond to training. Long guns, safety on, came off when coming from a ready to shoot, you were no faster getting the shot off with it off. If you had your finger on the trigger, nothing but an accident waiting to happen.
In there view, negligence may be involved, there's no such thing as an accidental. Even a complete mechanical failure is not an accident, it's unintentional. To further if you fiddle f'ed with your gun, could be deemed negligent.
Long gun policy was condition 3, loaded upon removal from vehicle/case when you thought you needed a bigger gun. Policy dictated that at shift start the weapon was removed from the vehicle, cleared and inspected, placed into c3 and returned to the vehicle/case. If used on a call, returned to same prior to going back in. Upon completion of the shift, same or returned to the Armory if the vehicle required service.
Me?, unless it's a precision rifle I learn to run it as is and never had an issue running them like a cheap date. To many excuses in my opinion. And to address the precision rifle, never have adjusted any one I've owned or have currently.
Only think I like on Glock is the smooth OEM trigger shoe, so I swap those out when needed.
I once swapped some springs and stuff out on a SIG P226 to make a nice smooth trigger. Got about 50% light strikes. That cured me of screwing with carry gun triggers; reliability / safety is first. It's a self defense firearm.
Trigger discipline is a must whether the trigger pull is 2 lbs. or 12 lbs. Trigger weight won't keep you out of trouble if you exhibit poor trigger discipline.
I love the 1911 platform. I will not carry a defensive firearm of any kind with a trigger weight less than 3-1/2 lbs. That's personal preference.
There's a study out there from Force Science Institute that they term UNINTENTIONAL DISCHARGES, meaning you didn't intend to pull the trigger.
Without the numbers in front of me, roughly 60-65% where from manipulations(loading, unloading, etc.) Roughly 20% covering suspects, don't recall the lesser ones. This is from LE work. What did not matter was the weight of the trigger. Now it's rather obvious that the finger was on the trigger for the weapon to fire and if safety equipped, had to be off.
My former agency had a pretty solid program but on occasion we would have someone who didn't respond to training. Long guns, safety on, came off when coming from a ready to shoot, you were no faster getting the shot off with it off. If you had your finger on the trigger, nothing but an accident waiting to happen.
In there view, negligence may be involved, there's no such thing as an accidental. Even a complete mechanical failure is not an accident, it's unintentional. To further if you fiddle f'ed with your gun, could be deemed negligent.
Long gun policy was condition 3, loaded upon removal from vehicle/case when you thought you needed a bigger gun. Policy dictated that at shift start the weapon was removed from the vehicle, cleared and inspected, placed into c3 and returned to the vehicle/case. If used on a call, returned to same prior to going back in. Upon completion of the shift, same or returned to the Armory if the vehicle required service.
Me?, unless it's a precision rifle I learn to run it as is and never had an issue running them like a cheap date. To many excuses in my opinion. And to address the precision rifle, never have adjusted any one I've owned or have currently.Here's my "excuse" you won't be able to defeat.
"Peripheral Neuropathy" makes it not possible to pull heavy triggers straight back. People with arthritis have similar issues.
A 12# j-frame trigger I can no longer pull at all.
My edc was lowered from 7# to 4.5# and has apples and oranges difference on targets. The work was done by a well respected shop so I don't consider it a bubba trigger.
P2Vaircrewman
12-24-22, 10:47
I keep my striker fired guns stock.....only one of my 1911s has a trigger upgrade and gunsmith trigger job.
I thought about the Overwatch Precision trigger that Yoni installed on his Glock, but decided against it.....
On my Gen 4 G-19 I installed just the Overwatch trigger shoe on the original bar and dot connector. Although it doesn't lighten the pull it feels lighter because I can get more of my finger on it and my finger doesn't drag as much on the trigger guard.
I believe you understood the intent of my statement.
Here's my "excuse" you won't be able to defeat.
"Peripheral Neuropathy" makes it not possible to pull heavy triggers straight back. People with arthritis have similar issues.
A 12# j-frame trigger I can no longer pull at all.
My edc was lowered from 7# to 4.5# and has apples and oranges difference on targets. The work was done by a well respected shop so I don't consider it a bubba trigger.
TheGhostRider
12-25-22, 09:12
I don’t mod my Glocks… they’re carried as they came from factory. Maybe polishing… done with a rag wheel.
I’ve gone back to HK’s for daily carry… P2000/30 V3.
Blue hammer springs and Nickel sear springs. That’s it. Best decision I’ve made for me.
I’ve carried my DW Valor a couple of times… I’m a laser with it. But damn… can’t imagine “Sweetie” laying in a cop crib for who knows how long after a defensive act. Glock or HK…
Gonna bother me but not as bad.
Been considering another Glock, with the intention of adding an optic. But I don't fire my ol'G19-3 because I don't carry or enjoy handling it.
It's a G36. Used to have one, guy I got it from begged to have it back so let him buy it. Now I reload .45 acp so I'd like to try one again.
But that means grip stippling, I'd like to remove the hump,undercut, change sights, the trigger is serrated, which I dislike but could live with, all the mags need a +0 or +1 extension, I'd have to hope it didn't throw cases at my face like most Glocks, hope that it was reliable, and that it ran on minimum loads, and finally it needs an optic cut.
Not sure it's worth the project.
Been considering another Glock, with the intention of adding an optic. But I don't fire my ol'G19-3 because I don't carry or enjoy handling it.
It's a G36. Used to have one, guy I got it from begged to have it back so let him buy it. Now I reload .45 acp so I'd like to try one again.
But that means grip stippling, I'd like to remove the hump,undercut, change sights, the trigger is serrated, which I dislike but could live with, all the mags need a +0 or +1 extension, I'd have to hope it didn't throw cases at my face like most Glocks, hope that it was reliable, and that it ran on minimum loads, and finally it needs an optic cut.
Not sure it's worth the project.
I don't know about the G36, but I do know on the G32 which is G19 frame that I was able to reduce the back hump enough by sanding it down to the point it was comfortable in my hand. On the G34 and 35 as most know I put Grey Ghost frames on them and now I love the way they fit my hand.
Regarding optics my 3 main guns all have Leupold Delta Micros RD, so no need for milling just plug and play. The G32 even though it is a little bigger has replace my G26 as the gun I carry when I don't want to carry a gun. It fits in the chest pocket of my every day winter jacket just like the G26 did.
ViniVidivici
12-29-22, 11:21
I reduced the hump on a G23 frame (part of the G19 build I now carry most) by heating it up with a candle, pushing it in some, then sanding down the entire back strap and stipling it (to match the front strap).
Worked like a charm. Reduced the corfumference, and now feels rock solid in the hand. Looks good to. By the micrometer, the change in dimension is subtle, but in the hand, it's a world of difference.
And heck yeah, those GGP frames are awesome. I've held and shot one (G17 size), and have been considering one. They feel just about perfect.
I reduced the hump on a G23 frame (part of the G19 build I now carry most) by heating it up with a candle, pushing it in some, then sanding down the entire back strap and stipling it (to match the front strap).
Worked like a charm. Reduced the corfumference, and now feels rock solid in the hand. Looks good to. By the micrometer, the change in dimension is subtle, but in the hand, it's a world of difference.
And heck yeah, those GGP frames are awesome. I've held and shot one (G17 size), and have been considering one. They feel just about perfect.
I agree with all you wrote on the G19/23/32 it doesn't take much to make it fit the hand so much better.
GGP frames are awesome, that and the other changes I made to pistol is in my mind what Glock should have been to begin with.
ViniVidivici
12-29-22, 17:47
I agree, my experience with the GGP framed pistol left me thinking that was how Glock grips should have been designed all along, and I say that as a dedicated Glock user for almost 17 years now.
As I have said many times the Hi Power was our duty pistol for years, and I love that pistol. Then we went to Glock, and it had some nice things about it, light weight, and let me think of some more eh light weight. I didn't like it, I didn't hate it but it was like a hammer. It was just a tool with no soul.
Now with what I have done, my pistol that was formally a Glock is now a GGP framed 6 inch KKM barreled 357 sig power house at 2300fps . It fits my hand and with after market triggers and connector it feels so much better. It shoots great and now it has soul.
It was very interesting when my friend from the SAS and I talked about Northern Ireland and our situation with Palestinians occupying our land and how we both approached being inside a hostile population in an under cover operation.
Both places had non elite soldiers off duty or in civilian clothes get pulled out of vehicles by a mob of blood thirsty terrorist. We both had the same view of what to do if set on by such a band of savages, head shots on as many as possible as fast as possible. We both said head shots for the effect on the mob over body shots which clothing could lessen the dramatic effect. I don't remember this 100% but I seem to recall we both carried very hot 9mm ammo in our Hi Powers
I just got to say what a sheltered life most Americans have lived. And that is very Bad-ass, Headshots for effect! Very! My sister in law was married to a guy that got extradited to Israel and was blown away by the violence going on still today. She just got back about 6 months ago. The struggle is real over there.
I like my handgun triggers to be crisp 3.5 pounders.
I had a shooting buddy that was an outstanding shooter, but fcked with every gun he had until it wouldn't run. Every match he was changing slides, lowers , magazines trying to unfck his guns. He finally quit that nonsense and is a grandmaster competitor.
PB
The best trigger job I ever did on a Glock was put 100,000 rounds through it.
The best trigger job I ever did on a Glock was put 100,000 rounds through it.
I don’t think I have that many rounds through a Glock, but a few thousand or so plus dry fire, ball and dummy, etc would work wonders for most people.
I don’t think I have that many rounds through a Glock, but a few thousand or so plus dry fire, ball and dummy, etc would work wonders for most people.
I does dry fire or live fire will get the job done. I worked in two places where ammo was readily available soooo I just did my action jobs by shooting the snot out of my carry guns.
I reduced the hump on a G23 frame (part of the G19 build I now carry most) by heating it up with a candle, pushing it in some, then sanding down the entire back strap and stipling it (to match the front strap).
Worked like a charm. Reduced the corfumference, and now feels rock solid in the hand. Looks good to. By the micrometer, the change in dimension is subtle, but in the hand, it's a world of difference.
And heck yeah, those GGP frames are awesome. I've held and shot one (G17 size), and have been considering one. They feel just about perfect.
A candle?! Ha! I've never heard of doing this but it sounds quite clever although a bit "Khyber Pass".
I was considering that $85 template to cut the hump off, too, should I get another Glock. Thanks.
The best trigger job I ever did on a Glock was put 100,000 rounds through it.
Oh, yea, I've done that with about a dozen Glocks.
J/K of course! The most I have through one is about 14k. Don't shoot it much anymore. I don't think the trigger pull changed much at all. (Gen 3)
I bought a 3 pound Black Yikes connector from Glock Store, just to try it.
First it is perfectly fine on a carry gun. It is interesting because unlike what they say about it the wall is still there. However it is not as steep as on other connectors.
I have in a G34 an Over Watch minus connect with their poly DAT flat face trigger and to be honest it is about the same as the Black Yikes but the wall is that little bit steeper.
I am going to put 500 9mm rounds through the pistol with a 9mm barrel and then put the 357 sig barrel back in and run 100 rounds through it and then will reports back.
sierra 223
01-14-23, 10:24
Has anyone looked into the new OEM Glock Performance Trigger for Gen 5's ?
P2Vaircrewman
01-14-23, 15:14
From what I have read the performance trigger keeps the striker at full cock unlike production triggers.
IMHO, this new Glock OEM Performance trigger should make it easier to get just the type of trigger characteristics that you prefer in terms of the type of break and break weight by your connector choice.
Also, if it is compatable with the standard Glock OEM trigger shoe, then one should be able to use aftermarket shoes like the Timney shoe where you can take *some* of the take up or pre travel out if you choose to.
So you now have the perfect Glock OEM trigger with your preferred type of break and break weight, etc. But will all this translate into any better practical ( hand held) on target accuracy or split times on the clock vs a *real good* worked on conventional stock trigger using OEM parts ?
IMHO, in my past experience using the Timney Johnny Glock carry trigger for reference, the difference *for me* was very little to no improvement. I also prefer to carry my Glocks AIWB, so I like to have SCD compatibility.
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