View Full Version : Gun Safe doesn't mean your Guns are Safe
This was on the local news. The showed where the thieves cut open the top of the safe and took everything. And these were decent looking safes.
Two firefighters who were on duty - home empty for a long time. Seems like bolting the safes to the ground would have helped because they tipped them over to empty them.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/firefighters-dog-missing-after-their-glendale-home-ransacked-on-christmas-eve/ar-AA15GSbK?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=bb317a4c9feb457e970089ce84dcc36d
StainlessSteelRat
12-27-22, 08:08
Man, I hate to see stuff like this, especially close to home. Good lesson to bolt it down, and limit access around it if u can. I think if we hung bastards who do this in the town square we'd see less of it.
Has to be a case of knowing the home owner's patterns. Cutting a safe open would take some time and be somewhat noisy.
I hope some neighbors have some ring camera footage.
Crackheads in our area cut through the back or top of the safe if they can turn it over. A battery-operated metal cutting saw will make short work of it. If the safe is bolted to the floor close to the wall, they cut into the side of the safe.
There’s a debate right now on P-F about actual safe quality. Wish we could find out what make and model of safe.
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There’s a debate right now on P-F about actual safe quality. Wish we could find out what make and model of safe.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Yes and that is a very informative thread. This news article has a picture showing the safe is a Winchester. And it's not the base model either. Seems like the burglars knew exactly when the homeowners wouldn't be home and they knew exactly what they were going for and how to get what they wanted.
https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/phoenix-firefighters-home-in-glendale-burglarized-dog-and-many-other-items-went-missing
OutofBatt3ry
12-27-22, 09:24
Assuming the wall thickness is the same as the part of the door I can see on mine(Not the total thickness, the plate steel that's attached to the locking mechanism), the wall thickness isn't that thick, mabye 1/8"? I was just checking a few name-brand safe websites and they don't give a spec for wall thickness, just the locking bars.
To defeat battery powered cutting tools, you'd need at least 1/2" thick walls, and that would make the safe incredibly heavy and expensive. You could drill through a 1/2" wall pretty easily but nothing short of a plasma cutter/oxy torch is going to cut a large hole in 1/2" steel quickly. Even 1/4" would be tough.
Unless you need an actual concrete-enforced bank vault, just get a separate policy for your firearms as well. (State farm calls it a "sporting goods" policy, or something to that nature). It's dirt cheap, like $100 bucks a year, $0 deductible.
There was a thread here, or maybe it was the the other gun forum, where they had a video of two dudes using a refrigerator dolly to roll out a 2000lb safe full of guns. Took them all of 2 minutes.
EDIT, the heaviest steel used on Liberty Safes is 7-gauge or 3/16". That's disappointing
https://www.libertysafesofatlanta.com/pages/liberty-safe-security-levels.
Make sure you get a separate policy for your firearms(State farm calls it a "sporting goods" policy, or something to that nature), folks. It's dirt cheap, like $100 bucks a year, $0 deductible.
There was a thread here, or maybe it was the the other gun forum, where they had a video of two dudes using a refrigerator dolly to roll out a 2000lb safe full of guns. Took them all of 2 minutes.
I legit don’t believe that. I posted this on P-F but I’ve watched my safe get moved twice and it flattened more than one dolly each time. The pro installers had one that handled it like a champ and made it look easy, but regular furniture moving equipment did not work very well with multiple dudes.
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Its no secret that what we call gun "safes" are residential security containers at best. Any safe deters or delays theft, none can prevent it.
I have a Liberty Fatboy RSC that weighs 976 lbs - a Hollon TL-15 gunsafe basically the same size weights 2600 lbs. No argument that the Hollon is better security, but its significantly more difficult to transport and limits where you can put it.
Andy
P.S. The Fatboy prices have more than doubled since I bought mine.
OutofBatt3ry
12-27-22, 10:03
I legit don’t believe that. I posted this on P-F but I’ve watched my safe get moved twice and it flattened more than one dolly each time. The pro installers had one that handled it like a champ and made it look easy, but regular furniture moving equipment did not work very well with multiple dudes.
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My numbers may be off, maybe it was only 1000lbs, but it was a large safe..not something you'd think two men could wheel off.
Here you go.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/-ARCHIVED-THREAD-My-entire-safe-got-stolen-today-OP-updated-with-list-of-firearms-Small-update-pg-13-/5-2282604/?page=2
My point is, if they want it bad enough, they're going to get it.
I use a tear gas canister rigged to the door of my gun room.
gunnerblue
12-27-22, 11:57
Short an actual vault, the types of safes that I'm sure we all have will only stop the resident smash-n-grab crackhead. A dedicated criminal with a little time and metal cutting equipment is going to get into your safe. I think that keeping a low profile and not advertising what you have is one of the best options in keeping your guns safe.
Eta: the very cheap safes in where the tops and bottoms are just folded over steel can be opened even more quickly with cutting and prying..
hotbiggun42
12-27-22, 12:44
Keeps other peoples creepy kids away from youf guns.
Best thing you can do is put safes in a place where it's difficult to run tools. You can get into anything.
titsonritz
12-27-22, 14:04
They only slow them down, at that task Sturdy Safe is the shit. Add a sticker that reads "Warning Do Not Cut, Contains Explosives".
If you bolt a safe to the floor, it opens up the possibility that a crackhead will cut the floor to tip the safe over. If the safe is not bolted to a concrete floor, it is easily done.
Averageman
12-27-22, 14:16
The best thing you can do is just think OPSEC.
Not everyone in the neighborhood needs to know about your guns. I even back in the driveway now to load up for the range. I really don't think anyone else needs to know.
The best thing you can do is just think OPSEC.
Not everyone in the neighborhood needs to know about your guns. I even back in the driveway now to load up for the range. I really don't think anyone else needs to know.
Word up! I wonder how the guys in the article stacked up in the OPSEC realm.
This was on the local news. The showed where the thieves cut open the top of the safe and took everything. And these were decent looking safes.
Two firefighters who were on duty - home empty for a long time. Seems like bolting the safes to the ground would have helped because they tipped them over to empty them.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/firefighters-dog-missing-after-their-glendale-home-ransacked-on-christmas-eve/ar-AA15GSbK?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=bb317a4c9feb457e970089ce84dcc36d
I don't see any photos of a safe, just a dog. Anyway, few of them are legit safes, but RSC's. I did a full write up the differences here a while back. My search Fu didn't find it. Maybe someone else fan find the thread.
StainlessSteelRat
12-27-22, 15:15
They only slow them down, at that task Sturdy Safe is the shit. Add a sticker that reads "Warning Do Not Cut, Contains Explosives".
I like the anti-theft system on Bond's Lotus in 'Fot Your Eyes Only'
https://youtu.be/n1Ug4I89c98
StainlessSteelRat
12-27-22, 15:18
They only slow them down, at that task Sturdy Safe is the shit. Add a sticker that reads "Warning Do Not Cut, Contains Explosives".
I like the anti-theft system on Bond's Lotus in 'For Your Eyes Only'
https://youtu.be/n1Ug4I89c98
Yes and that is a very informative thread. This news article has a picture showing the safe is a Winchester. And it's not the base model either. Seems like the burglars knew exactly when the homeowners wouldn't be home and they knew exactly what they were going for and how to get what they wanted.
https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/phoenix-firefighters-home-in-glendale-burglarized-dog-and-many-other-items-went-missing
They are RSC's designed to keep snatch and grab types out and fire rating. If not bolted down, someone with a decent crow bar can get then open if they know how/where to attack it. I don't think Winchester does make a legit safe. That they didn't even bolt it down, says volumes. If a few guys and a handtruck got in, why don't they realize they can get it out? That happens all the time. These days, a battery operated cutter and the right blade, open easily. Guaranteed, and inside job and someone knew what they had there. Companies refer to an RSC as a "safe" all the time, which is confusing obviously.
I created a large alcove in a wall by using part of the closet that was behind the wall I put the safe on. The safe is completely recessed into the wall. It's also concealed behind a shallow bookshelf that pivots out. Unless one knew it was there, there's nothing to even indicate I have a gun safe. I still bolted it to the concrete floor.
In the dragging the whole safe out scenario, a fair amount of the time and difficulty in getting it in the house is from trying not to damage the house and furnishings which won't concern thieves.
StainlessSteelRat
12-28-22, 08:56
I created a large alcove in a wall by using part of the closet that was behind the wall I put the safe on. The safe is completely recessed into the wall. It's also concealed behind a shallow bookshelf that pivots out. Unless one knew it was there, there's nothing to even indicate I have a gun safe. I still bolted it to the concrete floor.
This is what we did with ours. I know if someone really wants it bad enough, they'll get in though. I hope the other layers of security will make it too much work.
Always put safe in where most sides are covered, such as a narrow closet, etc. Always secure/bolt to the floor. Always keep safe out of view, e.g, keep close door closed. Always keep power tools, crow bars, locked in a basic locked cabinet etc. Using your own tools to open a safe is a thing. Always have layered security (correctly installed quality locks, window locks, alarm, etc), so just getting in is time consuming and a PITA for them.
Research the difference between an RCS and a legit safe, and know most are RSC with fancy paint jobs. Or, make it easy and get something like an AMSEC BF series (https://americansecuritysafes.com/product-category/home-safes/burglary/), that while technically an RSC, if the above tactics followed, would take a pro to open with the right tools, and they are usually targeting high end homes. While others put glossy finishes and advertise their "safe" AMSEC is the leader in safes, UL rated and listed, and what those looking to protect things use in the commercial world over other brands.
Also, calculate what you are trying to protect, and decide what is worth spending to protect it. Putting a good gun collection, jewellery, cash, important documents, etc in a basic RSC (such as what's shown in this thread from Winchester...) makes no sense to me.
An idea:
https://hiddensafe.com/
titsonritz
12-28-22, 17:30
I like the anti-theft system on Bond's Lotus in 'For Your Eyes Only'
https://youtu.be/n1Ug4I89c98
"Well, I hope you have a car"
"This way"
The look on Bond's face at the yellow Citroën 2CV. :lol:
I can remember the days when people had rifles in gun racks on their pickup truck, guns were proudly displayed on living room walls and "security" was a key lock on a glass door gun cabinet. And somehow it "worked", not always but most of the time.
A friend of mine got broke into a few years ago and they literally took the front door off the house with power tools. They didn't get a lot but they did a lot of damage.
Back in the 70s I knew a guy in Ft. Lauderdale with a "million dollar gun collection" and it was all on display in a room protected by a simple dead bolt lock like you'd find on most front doors.
The difference is simply society and what criminals feel they can get away with.
The difference is simply society and what criminals feel they can get away with.
In most major cities, especially those with Soros backed District Attorneys like we're stuck with here in Houston, they can get away with quite a lot.
In most major cities, especially those with Soros backed District Attorneys like we're stuck with here in Houston, they can get away with quite a lot.
No argument here.
Like I said, in South Florida (and a very upper middle class neighborhood) they hit my friends house and used power tools to remove his front door. Circular saw right around the locks on a double door. Then they cut the remainder from around the hinges and left the pile in front of his house.
They knew how much time they had before they had to leave and grabbed a bunch of portables. They didn't get the safe. They either didn't find it or they realized they didn't have the tools and the time.
The important thing is it happened while he was at work and dozens of neighbors did nothing.
Meanwhile on the other end of the spectrum (I'm still adapting to my Iowa defensive posture), a few years back I knew my neighbors were on vacation for a week or so and when car pulled in their driveway at around 11pm I grabbed a 1500 lum SF light and put a SIG on my belt at 5 o'clock so it wouldn't be easily noticed and I went and played twenty questions with them until I was satisfied that it was his father and just there to walk and feed the dog.
Told him to have a good night and I went back to my house. My neighbor thought that it was pretty funny when he came home from vacation and his father told him about it.
No argument here.
Like I said, in South Florida (and a very upper middle class neighborhood) they hit my friends house and used power tools to remove his front door. Circular saw right around the locks on a double door. Then they cut the remainder from around the hinges and left the pile in front of his house.
They knew how much time they had before they had to leave and grabbed a bunch of portables. They didn't get the safe. They either didn't find it or they realized they didn't have the tools and the time.
The important thing is it happened while he was at work and dozens of neighbors did nothing.
Meanwhile on the other end of the spectrum (I'm still adapting to my Iowa defensive posture), a few years back I knew my neighbors were on vacation for a week or so and when car pulled in their driveway at around 11pm I grabbed a 1500 lum SF light and put a SIG on my belt at 5 o'clock so it wouldn't be easily noticed and I went and played twenty questions with them until I was satisfied that it was his father and just there to walk and feed the dog.
Told him to have a good night and I went back to my house. My neighbor thought that it was pretty funny when he came home from vacation and his father told him about it.
Did he have cameras and an alarm? I get an alert and can look in real time at who on my property or if they entered the house. Sounds to me like his house was targeted specifically.
Johnny Rico
12-29-22, 08:50
No argument here.
Like I said, in South Florida (and a very upper middle class neighborhood) they hit my friends house and used power tools to remove his front door. Circular saw right around the locks on a double door. Then they cut the remainder from around the hinges and left the pile in front of his house.
They knew how much time they had before they had to leave and grabbed a bunch of portables. They didn't get the safe. They either didn't find it or they realized they didn't have the tools and the time.
The important thing is it happened while he was at work and dozens of neighbors did nothing.
Meanwhile on the other end of the spectrum (I'm still adapting to my Iowa defensive posture), a few years back I knew my neighbors were on vacation for a week or so and when car pulled in their driveway at around 11pm I grabbed a 1500 lum SF light and put a SIG on my belt at 5 o'clock so it wouldn't be easily noticed and I went and played twenty questions with them until I was satisfied that it was his father and just there to walk and feed the dog.
Told him to have a good night and I went back to my house. My neighbor thought that it was pretty funny when he came home from vacation and his father told him about it.
Iowa don't play. Not with police chiefs rolling around in technicals.
:D
Did he have cameras and an alarm? I get an alert and can look in real time at who on my property or if they entered the house. Sounds to me like his house was targeted specifically.
No cameras, but he did have an alarm that was going off the entire time. This was about 15 years ago so camera systems weren't quite as common as now.
And yeah, he had a driveway full of very expensive pickups, rode some expensive bikes, so he might have been targeted.
Of course I've seen that sorta thing a few times.
Iowa don't play. Not with police chiefs rolling around in technicals.
:D
I have to say when I first got here I had a pretty good interaction with the local CoP. He was on the code and zone board which voted to allow me to establish a home based FFL / SOT so I thanked him personally when I got my license and gave him a copy so that if his officers ever had to respond to my address they would know 1. LOTS of guns at that location and 2. Homeowner will probably have some manner of MP5 / M4. He really appreciated me briefing him on that but had nothing negative to say at all.
My LE buddies later told me it was mentioned in a morning briefing but was not portrayed in any kind of negative light.
they are a deterrent only, thinking they are more is a fallacy in your thinking
they are a deterrent only, thinking they are more is a fallacy in your thinking
My father used to say “locks will not keep thieves out, they are meant to keep honest men honest”.
My father used to say “locks will not keep thieves out, they are meant to keep honest men honest”.
smart words!
they are a deterrent only, thinking they are more is a fallacy in your thinking
Yep, I learned a long time ago, layers and layers of deterrence. Each one deters a different type of criminal.
Dogs are probably the number one deterrent, except for those willing to kill your dogs.
The vast majority of break ins that I saw (and remember I sold gun safes) were opportunity break ins where somebody knew your house and felt comfortable breaking into it (90% of the time it was a dirtbag acquaintance of your kids). They are typically after something specific they saw in your home, or after the things they imagine are in your home based upon the stuff out in the open.
I have seen "kid crews" who failed to get into simple Stack On security cabinets and they even brought pry tools with them. Home cameras showed they worked on them for almost 20 minutes and they bent the shit out of the doors, but failed to break the locks. The security cabinets were f'ed over but did the job.
We've all seen video of the professional hit on top of the line safes, those videos make the rounds because it doesn't happen very often. Unless you have a safe full of krugerands most "experienced" criminals aren't going to put in the time and effort for some Garands and high end hunting rifles, there are easier targets that are far more lucrative. If they can get your guns easy, they will do it because guns are always worth something. But if your stuff isn't easily worth $100,000 they are going after something else.
They'd rather hit the guy down the block with the Rolex / Omega collection which is usually in a very similar safe and sometimes not even in a safe at all. I've seen the guy with the watch drawer in his closet with $250,000 worth of watches in a locked, wooden drawer on sliders that I could open in 5 minutes.
Kids will break into your home for $50 worth of crap. They are either stupid or don't care or both. They think nothing bad can happen to them and usually they are correct. They are usually local enough to watch your house all day and learn when nobody is home, they don't care about alarms and they feel like once they have hoped the fence they are home free because they usually live in your neighborhood. And no matter how nice your neighborhood is, one of those doctors or lawyers has a dirtbag kid who needs to pay for his drugs and other problems.
Make sure you KNOW who your kids let into your house and you can avoid most problems. Making sure your kids KNOW that people who are drug users or otherwise shady aren't allowed in the house no matter how cool they are in their peer group also helps you avoid lots of problems.
If you have aggressive dogs they will usually take that into consideration. I lived in a very questionable part of Ft Lauderdale for about 5 years and I was the ONLY home that wasn't broken into in something like a four block radius the whole time I was there. Every single one of my neighbors got broken into. Dogs and an aggressive homeowner were what kept them out of my house.
Professionals aren't gonna touch your house unless the risk vs reward simply can't be ignored.
Work crews, who are something between kid crews and actual professionals, are probably the biggest threat. They bring tools and experience with them. Usually they work an "area" then move on before the word gets out. These guys are the hardest to defend against because they hit randomly based upon curb appeal. You will need multiple layers of deterrence to frustrate them to make them bail and decide it's not worth coming back better prepared. If these guys even think they might get shot, they will move onto the next house, but that doesn't mean advertise your guns like putting signs in the yard.
And finally, cops get robbed. If a person is willing to break into the home of somebody that is obviously a LEO, that person will break into anyone's house. The most important thing is looking like more trouble than you are worth.
Some FYI. At 3:58, that's an AMSEC BF series RCS, and the best in class by far for the $ to get legit protection:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LgKThatkjM
Info on AMSEC BF series. Safes/good RSC, are the ultimate buy once cry once purchase, and the last place you want to cheap out. The BFII series not expensive at all compared to others, but will keep all but determined pros with tools and time out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XS7x7ujT8G8
I am certainly not arguing against the AMSEC safes' superiority to the run of the mill RSCs.
I am not sure which safes you are comparing them to when you say they are not expensive compared to other RSCs. They are a bargain compared to Liberty's Presidential series of safes but far more expensive than a Fat Boy, etc. I grant there is a difference between cost and value.
Liberty Fat Boy 60"x42" 976lb ~ $4000
AMSEC BF 66"x36" 1300lb ~ $7500
Fire lined Sturdy Safe 72"x36" 1270lb ~ $5600.
Sturdy safe is not as pretty and its a 7 - 8 week wait.
Assuming you have floors that can bear the weight, a TL15 rated safe provides significantly more protection for the money than an AMSEC BF.
Andy
I am certainly not arguing against the AMSEC safes' superiority to the run of the mill RSCs.
I am not sure which safes you are comparing them to when you say they are not expensive compared to other RSCs. They are a bargain compared to Liberty's Presidential series of safes but far more expensive than a Fat Boy, etc.
Compared to literally any other RSC on the market. I'd get that over anything Liberty makes personally.
Assuming you have floors that can bear the weight, a Sturdy safe or a TL15 rated safe provides significantly more protection for the money than an AMSEC BF.
Andy
Of course, but I'd likely get an AMSEC TL15 safe over another brand if apples/apples myself. AMSEC was the only company offering a TL30 rated gun safe at one time. I don't know if that's still true, or if they even still offer it anymore.
AMSEC is where it's at for commercial safes or RSC. If I had the $, and wanted a pretty heirloom quality safe with high security, I'd probably go with a Graffunder
Compared to literally any other RSC on the market. I'd get that over anything Liberty makes personally.
Of course, but I'd likely get an AMSEC TL15 safe over another brand if apples/apples myself. AMSEC was the only company offering a TL30 rated gun safe at one time. I don't know if that's still true, or if they even still offer it anymore.
AMSEC is where it's at for commercial safes or RSC. If I had the $, and wanted a pretty heirloom quality safe with high security, I'd probably go with a Graffunder
Thanks for the reply, and for understanding I am not trying to play the devil's advocate.
Please note that I edited my post because the Sturdy safe security is conjecture on my part.
I really wish the US gun owners would demand ugly but intelligently engineered RSCs made of thickish steel instead of what "gun safes" have become.
A 24"x42"x72" RSC made from 3/16" plate should weigh less than 800 lbs and would wear out any would-be thieves if it was securely bolted down.
Andy
Thanks for the reply, and for understanding I am not trying to play the devil's advocate.
Please note that I edited my post because the Sturdy safe security is conjecture on my part.
I really wish the US gun owners would demand ugly but intelligently engineered RSCs made of thickish steel instead of what "gun safes" have become.
Andy
Which describes the AMSEC BF series perfectly. Others tend to focus on shiny paint jobs and pretty door hardware and rarely offer the security the BF series does for similar $.
From what I know, Sturdy makes good stuff too. I don't know about price differentials between comparable rated AMSEC.
We have different ideas of ugly :)
http://www.southernsafes.com/images/product/medium/399.jpg
Andy
If you want a safe no one is likely to break into, you can do what a shooting buddy did. He purchased an old bank vault door and built a safe that is part of his basement. He dug the earth away from his house down to the footing, cut into the basement wall and poured reinforced concrete walls to form a safe room. The access wall was built around the bank vault door. Then he repoured the basement wall, backfilled the earth against the wall, and poured a driveway over the new part of the basement wall adjacent to the safe.
I don't think you can purchase a burglar resistant commercial gun-safe that doesn't cost more than a small gun collection.
If you want a safe no one is likely to break into, you can do what a shooting buddy did. He purchased an old bank vault door and built a safe that is part of his basement. He dug the earth away from his house down to the footing, cut into the basement wall and poured reinforced concrete walls to form a safe room. The access wall was built around the bank vault door. Then he repoured the basement wall, backfilled the earth against the wall, and poured a driveway over the new part of the basement wall adjacent to the safe.
I don't think you can purchase a burglar resistant commercial gun-safe that doesn't cost more than a small gun collection.
There was a guy in Florida who purchased an entire bank vault (from a former bank that was being torn down) and he put it in his garage. Probably cost about the same as building the basement gun room.
If you want a safe no one is likely to break into, you can do what a shooting buddy did. He purchased an old bank vault door and built a safe that is part of his basement. He dug the earth away from his house down to the footing, cut into the basement wall and poured reinforced concrete walls to form a safe room. The access wall was built around the bank vault door. Then he repoured the basement wall, backfilled the earth against the wall, and poured a driveway over the new part of the basement wall adjacent to the safe.
I don't think you can purchase a burglar resistant commercial gun-safe that doesn't cost more than a small gun collection.
Commercial grade, you can also find used, like from some jewelry store that closed and such. New, you can get an AMSEC CE5524 AMVAULT TL-15 Fire Rated Composite Safe for 6-7k which could hold a decent collection, as well as jewelry, essential docs, etc.
I try to think in terms of perhaps spending a % of what you're wanting to protect, not including items that may not have big $ value, but things that mean a lot to you personally, like a watch your father gave you who is no longer alive, etc. If you have some nice guns, watches, wife jewelry, important docs, want to keep some cash, 6-7k seems like a good deal to me.
People who put the above in a big box store RSC they got for $800, are crazy to me.
As mentioned, in terms of $, weight, and security that will keep all but a pro out, AMSEC BF, or for a little more $, BFII is the sweet spot in my view.
If you want a safe no one is likely to break into, you can do what a shooting buddy did. He purchased an old bank vault door and built a safe that is part of his basement. He dug the earth away from his house down to the footing, cut into the basement wall and poured reinforced concrete walls to form a safe room. The access wall was built around the bank vault door. Then he repoured the basement wall, backfilled the earth against the wall, and poured a driveway over the new part of the basement wall adjacent to the safe.
I don't think you can purchase a burglar resistant commercial gun-safe that doesn't cost more than a small gun collection.
Commercial grade, you can also find used, like from some jewelry store that closed and such. New, you can get an AMSEC CE5524 AMVAULT TL-15 Fire Rated Composite Safe for 6-7k which could hold a decent collection, as well as jewelry, essential docs, etc.
I try to think in terms of perhaps spending a % of what you're wanting to protect, not including items that may not have big $ value, but things that mean a lot to you personally, like a watch your father gave you who is no longer alive, etc. If you have some nice guns, watches, wife jewelry, important docs, want to keep some cash, 6-7k seems like a good deal to me.
People who put the above in a big box store RSC they got for $800, are crazy to me.
As mentioned, in terms of $, weight, and security that will keep all but a pro out, AMSEC BF, or for a little more $, BFII is the sweet spot in my view.
We have different ideas of ugly :)
http://www.southernsafes.com/images/product/medium/399.jpg
Andy
That don't mean they can't offer "look here, a huge red safe to try and break into" colors to those who want them. But fancy glossy paint jobs and shiny hardware over legit security, is what other brands do who also spend a lot on advertising.
Commercial grade, you can also find used, like from some jewelry store that closed and such. New, you can get an AMSEC CE5524 AMVAULT TL-15 Fire Rated Composite Safe for 6-7k which could hold a decent collection, as well as jewelry, essential docs, etc.
I try to think in terms of perhaps spending a % of what you're wanting to protect, not including items that may not have big $ value, but things that mean a lot to you personally, like a watch your father gave you who is no longer alive, etc. If you have some nice guns, watches, wife jewelry, important docs, want to keep some cash, 6-7k seems like a good deal to me.
People who put the above in a big box store RSC they got for $800, are crazy to me.
As mentioned, in terms of $, weight, and security that will keep all but a pro out, AMSEC BF, or for a little more $, BFII is the sweet spot in my view.
If the safe is located in a lower part of the house where equipment is required to move it up the stairs, that can be a viable option. If it's on the first floor or upper level, it's possible to cut it from the floor and wheel it out of the house. It's happened in my AO a few times. On one occasion, the burglars cut a hole in the back of the house and pushed the safe into the back of a pickup truck. Once it's off site, they have all the time in the world to get the safe open.
If burglars arrive at the house during business hours, you would be amazed at the number of people who think they work for a contractor.
If the safe is located in a lower part of the house where equipment is required to move it up the stairs, that can be a viable option. If it's on the first floor or upper level, it's possible to cut it from the floor and wheel it out of the house. It's happened in my AO a few times. On one occasion, the burglars cut a hole in the back of the house and pushed the safe into the back of a pickup truck. Once it's off site, they have all the time in the world to get the safe open.
If burglars arrive at the house during business hours, you would be amazed at the number of people who think they work for a contractor.
Time is the only factor that matters. I could get into a bank with a spoon given 1000 years. Good security is layered, so it's simply not worth the effort or prevents it. As you know, on TV, all break ins happen at night all stealth picking a lock, in reality, it's the middle of the day and they kick the door in and pretend to be a moving company.
Putting a good safe in a house without good locks properly installed, doors, alarm, and cameras, is just an invite to take the safe. As you indicated, they don't do like the movies and open the safe by listening to he tumblers, they take the sake and open at their leisure. Another reason you locate the safe where it's difficult to get any access to anything but the door, such a closet that leaves little space, etc.
People who put a big expensive safe in their living room to show off their safe are dumb asses to be sure. I did a fair amount of research on the topic before choosing a safe, and talked at length with the owner the biggest seller and installer of safes in the region at the time, and of course LEOs. The 4 approaches, from most common to least were:
Take the safe. If they can't do that then:
Pry open the safe
Cut into the safe (often with owners own tools left out...)
Use a torch to get in. That one was quite rare compared to the other three I was told.
On one occasion, the burglars cut a hole in the back of the house and pushed the safe into the back of a pickup truck. Once it's off site, they have all the time in the world to get the safe open.
A lot of people don't consider that a good portion of the time and difficulty getting it in is due to avoiding damage to the home and furnishings and just how much time and difficulty is reduced without that concern.
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