View Full Version : High-Strength Super Alloy BCG?
The new Ruger SFAR AR 10-
Bolt and barrel extensions are CNC-machined from high-strength super alloy steel that outperforms traditional C158 bolts.
Any ideas what it is? I doubt its 9310 or they would have listed that since its a common bolt steel.
https://ruger.com/products/sfar/specSheets/5611.html
The new Ruger SFAR AR 10-
Bolt and barrel extensions are CNC-machined from high-strength super alloy steel that outperforms traditional C158 bolts.
Any ideas what it is? I doubt its 9310 or they would have listed that since its a common bolt steel.
https://ruger.com/products/sfar/specSheets/5611.html
I am curious about this too, but it is Ruger we're talking about here... My expectations that they genuinely innovated something significant are pretty low.
vicious_cb
12-29-22, 23:20
The only bolts Ive found to actually live up to their claims are the LMT enhanced and the KAC E3 bolts which are both using Aermet steel. Unless Ruger is using the same materials I highly doubt its going to be anything special.
I would expect that the alloy was chosen using material cost, availability, and manufacturing ease as the prime considerations. I'm not saying that it isn't a great steel but I agree with Georgeib. Note the 4140 barrel steel.
When I open the link, "Boomer muzzle brake" makes me grin...
Andy
Just sounds like marketing BS. "Our bolts are made out of some unspecified super DUPER alloy" Yeah ok... I'll stick with my perfectly adequate C158 bolts, thanks.
I am curious about this too, but it is Ruger we're talking about here... My expectations that they genuinely innovated something significant are pretty low.
Investment Cast! :cool:
Just sounds like marketing BS. "Our bolts are made out of some unspecified super DUPER alloy" Yeah ok... I'll stick with my perfectly adequate C158 bolts, thanks.
How could you possibly know if C158 was perfectly adequate for a new miniaturized .308 design?
How could you possibly know if C158 was perfectly adequate for a new miniaturized .308 design?
Because I missed the part about it being a mini .308 design. Guess I should not post in the mornings before having coffee :no:
Still sounds like marketing hype. What is the material used?
Didn’t help that it’s not in the correct sub either.
Based on the price, 9310 and marketing would be a reasonable guess.
Didn’t help that it’s not in the correct sub either.
Based on the price, 9310 and marketing would be a reasonable guess.
Technical definition- pertaining to special knowledge especially in a mechanical or scientific field.
The website lists 9310 for their plane jane AR's so I believe it must be something else for the SFAR
How could you possibly know if C158 was perfectly adequate for a new miniaturized .308 design?
We can know if, or if not, C158 is adequate, because we know:
1) the loads produced by .308 Winchester
2) the strength of Carpenter 158 steel, and
3) we can get a real good estimate of how much steel is loaded in the bolt and extension based on its size.
I think perhaps you missed the point. Some people were not aware that it was not an AR-15 bolt being discussed.
It’s also a brand new design using whatever material Ruger decided to use, so nobody makes a C158 bolt for it, adequate or not.
OutofBatt3ry
12-30-22, 21:50
Investment Cast! :cool:
I had a pot-metal p85, and currently own a sad P95 with the plastic/fiberglass concoction of a frame. Meh. I have a soft spot for it, Ruger was my first gun.
I know nothing about .308 AR's but I do enjoy a SCAR-17
https://i.imgur.com/Z35R92t.jpg
Pot metal aka Chinesium? LOL!
Aermet 100 ?
Both C158 and Aremet 100 are produced by a Carpenter companies.
Bill Geissle has this on his webpage... ( bare with me )
"Since Geissele wanted to take it to the next level, our engineers worked directly with the Carpenter Steel metallurgists in Reading PA, to produce a special type of material known as Carpenter 158+. This material is cleaner with less impurities, ultimately making it stronger and more consistent. We did not stop there, we decided to forge the bolt. Using the same process used to produce upper and lower receivers, a forged bolt manipulates the grain structure of the metal and yields a bolt capable of 5 times the life of a mil-spec bolt."
Mr. Geissele also mentions here about a "C158+" material used .. right around the 15:00 mark.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxjEdj8Z5kE
I am very curious what material Geissele and Ruger are actually using.
For that matter... what is the SIG XM5 using for its bolt material ?
BufordTJustice
01-05-23, 21:27
The only bolts Ive found to actually live up to their claims are the LMT enhanced and the KAC E3 bolts which are both using Aermet steel. Unless Ruger is using the same materials I highly doubt its going to be anything special.
Vicious, is the original E3 bolt using Aermet/A100? I have heard that the E3.2 bolt is, but no info on the original.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
There's a few flavors of steel like 9310 that are more "fracture resistant". My guess it's one of those.
Defaultmp3
01-09-23, 11:44
"the bolt and barrel extensions are machined from a special alloy with a high nickel content for extra strength and durability"
Source: https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/rugers-sfar-a-big-surprise-in-a-small-package-review/
C158 and 9310 are both a special alloy with a high nickel content too, compared to normal steel grades. Something like A100 does have more nickel but it’s really a cobalt alloy.
Still no idea if it’s really exotic or marketing.
constructor
01-10-23, 10:42
The bolt on the far right is .800" OD, just to the left is a bolt with a .750OD. Both can handle cartridges with a 308 diameter bolt face, both bolts are made from 9310 VAC ARC. I made those from 2009-2017 for wildcats with a 308 diameter case and use in an AR15(6BRX, 6mm Dasher and similar), no one has ever broken one.
I've never seen the Ruger bolt so I don't know the size or shape but that will give you an idea what 9310 will handle.
69548
Sounds like marketing BS. You can have the best material by on-paper specs, but if you machine it wrong, treat it incorrectly, or its full of large NMIs, you end up with a shitty product.
Not saying this sucks, just how it comes across.
Sounds like marketing BS. You can have the best material by on-paper specs, but if you machine it wrong, treat it incorrectly, or its full of large NMIs, you end up with a shitty product.
Not saying this sucks, just how it comes across.
The marketing is word-smithing. Most likely it's 9310, but can be one of many proof steels that are stronger than C158. Many arms use C158, Ruger uses something better tha C158 ;)
"9310 is a AISI standard grade of tool steel that makes it about ~7% stronger than "mil-spec" Carpenter 158 steels, when appropriately treated. Its commonly used in the aerospace industry where toughness, impact strength, and solid wear characteristics are required."
The marketing is word-smithing. Most likely it's 9310, but can be one of many proof steels that are stronger than C158. Many arms use C158, Ruger uses something better tha C158 ;)
"9310 is a AISI standard grade of tool steel that makes it about ~7% stronger than "mil-spec" Carpenter 158 steels, when appropriately treated. Its commonly used in the aerospace industry where toughness, impact strength, and solid wear characteristics are required."
Ruger lists bolt material in their other rifles as 9310 so I doubt thats what it is in the SFAR otherwise it would be listed in the specs.
I think you are making an assumption from a user rather than a manufacturer’s understanding of the market.
It’s a near marketing necessity for AR bolts.
A different marketing team can want to hype a new and proprietary gun. Or they may be keeping it under wraps to make it harder to copy, both irrespective of the material being regular or exotic.
I think you are making an assumption from a user rather than a manufacturer’s understanding of the market.
It’s a near marketing necessity for AR bolts.
A different marketing team can want to hype a new and proprietary gun. Or they may be keeping it under wraps to make it harder to copy, both irrespective of the material being regular or exotic.
I dont have one.
Ruger lists bolt material in their other rifles as 9310 so I doubt thats what it is in the SFAR otherwise it would be listed in the specs.
What makes you think some new marketing word-smithing was not used?
Maybe it's not 9310, maybe it is. Why stray away from a commonly used well-understood 9310 alloy? As I mentioned, there are other better than C158 and perhaps better than 9310.
Maybe just call Ruger and ask.
EzGoingKev
01-16-23, 15:35
Are most/all AR bolts forged?
I dont have one.
Your perspective and assumptions are as a consumer, not a manufacturer.
constructor
01-16-23, 16:12
Are most/all AR bolts forged?
No, they are machined.
EzGoingKev
01-16-23, 16:44
No, they are machined.
Makes me wish Geissele would sell just his enhanced bolt by itself.
constructor
01-16-23, 18:01
Makes me wish Geissele would sell just his enhanced bolt by itself.
Well don't believe to much of the BS, you know where we are headed.
69593
No, they are machined.
Huh?
Almost every forging still needs finishing machine work.
Maybe their "super" steel is 9840?
https://www.steelforgeind.com/alloy-steel-9840-forging-manufacturer.html
constructor
01-17-23, 16:50
Huh?
Almost every forging still needs finishing machine work.
Maybe their "super" steel is 9840?
https://www.steelforgeind.com/alloy-steel-9840-forging-manufacturer.html
Yeah I machined about 300 a week for 8 years.
Find a copy of the specs for a mil spec bolt and then see if you can find any mention of forging on it.
Huh?
Almost every forging still needs finishing machine work.
Maybe their "super" steel is 9840?
https://www.steelforgeind.com/alloy-steel-9840-forging-manufacturer.html
Iirc, they are machined from bar stock.
Yeah I machined about 300 a week for 8 years.
Find a copy of the specs for a mil spec bolt and then see if you can find any mention of forging on it.
The marketing claim was not made by me, and how would you know what Ruger was doing for their claim? If you knew exactly what they used and how it was finished, you would tell us, right?
Yeah, probably not a forging that needs final machine work, but to say 9310 or 9840, just a wild assumption, but possible.
We would probably have less people talking about AR-15 bolts if this was in Beyond 5.56 with all the other .308 AR stuff.
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