View Full Version : All the inexpensive 1911's on sale.
I just can't bring myself to buy another. I have had 3 1911's the only one that ran was the Norinco. I have seen more people have issues with 1911's than any other gun.
Then even if you have on as reliable as you can get a 1911. They are big, bulky with low capacity.
Hell I have a S&W M&P Shield 45. That holds as many rounds as a full size 1911. And it's slightly larger than a 9mm Shield. And it's 100% reliable, and damn accurate.
Go ahead, tell me how wrong I am.
Averageman
12-29-22, 21:00
I dunno. I bought a Colt before I retired, never a problem. I used it for a decade before sending it off to a Gunsmith in Houston for ". The Treatment".
It may not be my first choice, but I carry it with a seven with two tens backing that up.
I grew up shooting 1911s in the 70s I like em cause they shoot good for me.
Go ahead, tell me how wrong I am.
Every Series 70 I have owned has been 100% failure free. My Colt Commando has been 100% failure free. Somehow my Para 13 has even been 100% failure free.
I think the secret is "keep them stock" and buy quality magazines.
Also while we are on the subject, my 1918 date Colt 1911 has been 100% failure free in the time it has been in my possession (acquired in 1978).
Don't know what to tell you about budget 1911s, never owned one. Except for the Para 13 but I don't remember what I paid for it.
Then there is me with several and not an issue with any of them. My Colts are my favorites.
I have no use for Kimber and never could bring myself to buy any of the really expensive brands.
SomeOtherGuy
12-29-22, 22:28
Then even if you have on as reliable as you can get a 1911. They are big, bulky with low capacity.
Long and heavy, yes. Not at all bulky. One of the better concealed options relative to their overall size and capability.
My several Springfield Armory 1911s are all stone reliable. No mods, use quality mags, but not rocket science or voodoo. Even flying ashtrays will feed.
I prefer 1911s and Glocks over most other designs because every single part is readily available as a spare or replacement, and can be installed by someone with only moderate skills. Even the 1911 lockwork if you're somewhat skilled and not attempting to do stupid things with unreasonably light trigger pulls.
In fairness, the Glock is a better overall package for most defensive purposes, and I don't carry a 1911 much. More of a range and competition gun. But solid for those purposes, and would be solid for carry if it made sense - like if I were in a mag cap ban state, but could still CCW - like rural California.
Kimbers seem to suck, never owned one but I've seen plenty fail at the range and in classes. Obviously avoid off brands. But good ordinary brands like Colt, SAI, S&W and Ruger should all be fine.
My 100th Anniversary Colt Rail Gun is over 4,500 rounds without a single malfunction of any kind. Probably 80% of those were JHP’s to boot.
I also have a S&W 1911PD with several hundred rounds with no malfunctions.
My Dan Wesson PM-9 has several thousand rounds through it. It’s occasionally picky about slide lock reloads, but that’s probably more an issue with my flat nose training ammo and being sprung for very light loads (11# recoil spring). It’s not a carry gun anyway, but it is the most accurate centerfire handgun I own and an absolute joy to shoot.
The budget Norinco was the one that ate everything. It was the Colt Combat Commander and the Kimber Custom Classic that were Jam-O-Matics. With factory, Wilson and Pachmeyer mags. Not to mention every gun person I have know through the years. Has had problems with them. Some swore by them as reliable. Then when I watch them having trouble out shooting. They tell me it's a mag issue. OK? Still having a failure with it. While I burn thorough box after box in my non 1911 double stacked auto's.
The budget Norinco was the one that ate everything. It was the Colt Combat Commander and the Kimber Custom Classic that were Jam-O-Matics. With factory, Wilson and Pachmeyer mags. Not to mention every gun person I have know through the years. Has had problems with them. Some swore by them as reliable. Then when I watch them having trouble out shooting. They tell me it's a mag issue. OK? Still having a failure with it. While I burn thorough box after box in my non 1911 double stacked auto's.
Most of the people with 1911s that choke have loaded them up with custom parts to make them "more accurate."
In the early days Kimber produced a 1911 (I forget the model name) that everyone in specialized law enforcement went ga ga over. I shot quite a few of them and they were nice, but they really didn't do anything my Series 70 couldn't do so I never bought one. After that Kimber came out with the customs, and I almost bought a Royal II on a few occasions because they were beautiful, but it seems that not long after that I started hearing stories of Kimbers being less reliable, especially with JHPs.
I think Kimber was a victim of their own success and cut corners to keep up with demand and they finally got deep sixed by Cohen.
As for "big, heavy", I started shooting 1911s when I was 12. It was challenging to keep it pointed in a safe direction and run the slide (again I was 12) but I manged to shoot them just fine. Also 1911s lay pretty flat and I'm hard pressed to think of another IWB that carries as nice.
The weight also made the 1911 stable, especially for small stature shooters. I remember the first time I shot a Glock 21 and I really didn't care for it. Trigger was shit compared to a 1911 and the 21 was also pretty snappy to shoot. Of course I grew up with 1911s and not Glocks so that was probably a part of it.
Never got a Norinco for the same reason I never got a Springfield, Rock River Arms or any of the others, I already had my Colts. I bought a Para 13 at a gun show because I was intrigued by a high capacity 1911.
OutofBatt3ry
12-30-22, 07:43
I had a Springfield 1911 in the early 2000's. It never ran great. Maybe a failure every other mag. I sold it and didn't have much interest in getting another until recently. Option overload trying to figure out what I want.
I had a Springfield 1911 in the early 2000's. It never ran great. Maybe a failure every other mag. I sold it and didn't have much interest in getting another until recently. Option overload trying to figure out what I want.
Get a Colt. Heck you could even put your name on the CMP list and get a historically significant Colt.
All but one of my 1911’s are as delivered from the factory with one exception. I put an extended grip safety on one of my Colts.
P2Vaircrewman
12-30-22, 09:21
For my Series 70 Colt 1911 and my Glock 19 reliability has never been an issue. I shoot the Colt better but the Glock has twice the capacity and I don't want to carry an extra 45 mag. I'd rather be shooting than reloading.
Go ahead, tell me how wrong I am.
You're wrong. Anecdotal stories does not data make.
I have only owned 3 1911s - two 5" Springfields and one Colt LW CDR. All three are or were reliable. The steel 5" guns are heavy but I wouldn't call a 1911 bulky. Ammo capacity is less than a double stack 9mm, for sure.
Andy
I've heard pretty good reviews of the Turkish-made 1911's (Tisas, Girsan). Supposedly they have forged frames and slides and CHF barrels.
The budget Norinco was the one that ate everything.
(this should be in the 1911 forum)
I had one of the Norincos. I figured there's no such thing as a truly relaible 1911, so just buy a cheapo. The Norinco ran really good, but the slidestop eventually broke.
1911s are truly like classic cars. Fun to shoot, but don't look to one to run like a Toyota.
The Norinco ran really good, but the slidestop eventually broke.
That is virtually impossible! Those were made with indestructible Chicom rail steel! [emoji3]
I don't know if this applies to all Norincos imported into the US, but I recall reading several reviews of them shortly after they were on the market. Some reviewers remarked that these Chinese guns were made of some of the hardest steel ever encountered on a firearm. Accurate? I don't know.
That is virtually impossible! Those were made with indestructible Chicom rail steel! [emoji3]
Those things were all over the place. I remember seeing one online where the barrel was fit so poorly that it was unsafe to fire. The hood lugs didn't lock into the slide right. I guess China was copying American mediocrity! :cool:
I've head pretty good reviews of the Turkish-made 1911's (Tisas, Girsan). Supposedly they have forged frames and slides and CHF barrels.
Girsan is coming out with a 2011 (calling it 2311) at SHOT next month. Gonna be available in 9mm, .45acp and 10mm/40 S&W. Optic ready and target sight versions available and FOUR different barrel lengths. Starting MSRP at $999.
If the reviews show promise, I definitely see myself getting an optics 10mm. I really hope it's available in 6". Old STI Perfect 10's are stupid priced unobtanium. :(
Johnny Rico
12-30-22, 12:09
I am blessed enough to have a couple of unicorns -- accurate, reliable 1911s. They're not Colts either.
For serious purposes, I already have ARs and Glock 19s. Does everything have to be serious all the time? 1911s, Winchester 94s, Garands...they all bring a smile to my face. There may be better tools available now, but they still work. Besides, it's the man behind the gun that matters.
SomeOtherGuy
12-30-22, 12:12
I don't know if this applies to all Norincos imported into the US, but I recall reading several reviews of them shortly after they were on the market. Some reviewers remarked that these Chinese guns were made of some of the hardest steel ever encountered on a firearm. Accurate? I don't know.
Slide and frame were made of 5160, IIRC. 5160 is commonly used as a spring steel and occasionally as a knife blade steel. It can be hardened to a pretty high level c. Rockwell C 56, and it's very tough even at that hardness. That makes it extremely difficult to machine in the hardened state. A friend who owns a Norinco 1911 reported that gunsmiths would charge extra to mill the slide for dovetail sights, due to the need to use carbide mill bits that would be essentially consumed in milling one slide.
No idea why Norinco used such a hard and tough steel - maybe just availability? A lot of cheaper, softer steels would have been adequate by western standards, much less by Chi-com standards of the 80's and 90's.
I'm sure I had my slide dovetail cut for the front sight, and I don't recall getting any additional charges. I cut the frame for a beaver tail grip safety too. I guess I went so slow that I wouldn't really notice extra hardness in the steel though.
Well my Tisas 9mm has been great. Much more reliable and accurate than the Colt 1911's I shot in the 80's. Back then you had to have work done to shoot anything other than ball. And forget 9mm, just go to 38 Super.
Over the years when I was going to classes, often, I found that most 1911's failed during the course of the class. A big factor in 1911 reliability seemed to be who worked on it. I have one that was built in the early 90's that I've taken to classes and it always worked. After each day when the others were having a beer I was breaking it down, cleaning and lubing for the next day.
FWIW I'm carrying a Colt XSE on my left hip right now that is bone stock, other than Ram's horn grips, and I trust it enough to carry. Many of these cheap foreign 1911's are functionally better than ever. However, I do carry a Glock 80% of the time.
Over the years when I was going to classes, often, I found that most 1911's failed during the course of the class.
Same here. Kimbers were guaranteed ass aches for the rest of the class. Shit, even Louis Awerbuck's 1911 was malfing in one of our classes. I love shooting my 1911, but there's ZERO surprise when it fails to feed or eject or whatever friggin random, out of nowhere malfunction it can conjure up.
I've had $350 guns, I've had $3K guns (well, 'gun' singular, just one), and plenty in between. Some were turds, some were great.
In recon we had the MEU(SOC) 1911. Those were great; however, we had full-time armorers to make sure they kept running.
Some brands were worse than others (looking at you, Kimber); some were great (Springfield). The more expensive ones tended to run pretty well. I loved my personal MEU(SOC) 1911.
For my Series 70 Colt 1911 and my Glock 19 reliability has never been an issue. I shoot the Colt better but the Glock has twice the capacity and I don't want to carry an extra 45 mag. I'd rather be shooting than reloading.
That is the main thing that had me transitioning to the P226 in 1985. That and the DA/SA meant I didn't have to carry cocked and locked.
My first 1911 was a TRP and it has been as reliable as any gun Ive owned. I have had great luck with my 1911's and have run many. I know they have a reputation for failing but mine have not. I had one Ed Brown that ran fine but head butted me with brass, no bueno. Only real problem I ever had.
Never carried one but just a few times, too big for me. But I still love 1911 / 2011 platforms.
SA, Colt, Dan Wesson, NHC, Stacatto have treated me well.
PB
You don't hear a lot of stories from WW1/WW2/Korea/Vietnam about 1911's failing in combat. Although they obviously weren't used to the extent that long arms were. And some failures had to be inevitable given the scale of the conflict.
Well my Tisas 9mm has been great. Much more reliable and accurate than the Colt 1911's I shot in the 80's. Back then you had to have work done to shoot anything other than ball. And forget 9mm, just go to 38 Super.
Over the years when I was going to classes, often, I found that most 1911's failed during the course of the class. A big factor in 1911 reliability seemed to be who worked on it. I have one that was built in the early 90's that I've taken to classes and it always worked. After each day when the others were having a beer I was breaking it down, cleaning and lubing for the next day.
FWIW I'm carrying a Colt XSE on my left hip right now that is bone stock, other than Ram's horn grips, and I trust it enough to carry. Many of these cheap foreign 1911's are functionally better than ever. However, I do carry a Glock 80% of the time.
How reliable has it been? Is it the 4.25" Carry?
I have always been in the 1911's should be 45 crowd. But I have had such problems with them.
I would like to here more about the Tisas 9mm 1911's
Owned a Series 80 Colt 1991A1 and it was my EDC pistol 20 years ago. Glock 19 is more practical but I was nostalgic back then and not so wise. Everyone told me Colt "makes junk now" but I didn't listen and bought it anyway. Kept it stock, never had any failures or any issues, it was VERY accurate out to 25 yards. Only sold it when .45 ACP ammo went up so much in price I couldn't practice much, but I still miss it. Great gun.
Most of the people with 1911s that choke have loaded them up with custom parts to make them "more accurate."
In the early days Kimber produced a 1911 (I forget the model name) that everyone in specialized law enforcement went ga ga over......
Are you referring to the TLE? I bought one when they first came out and it has been very reliable. It will feed ball ammo, JHP, reloads, you name it. I had to replace the thumb safety a few years after I bought it, but since then it has been problem free for tens of thousands of rounds.
Are you referring to the TLE? I bought one when they first came out and it has been very reliable. It will feed ball ammo, JHP, reloads, you name it. I had to replace the thumb safety a few years after I bought it, but since then it has been problem free for tens of thousands of rounds.
Bingo. That's the one. I remember guys running mixed load magazines trying to make one choke.
I think the problem was people back in the 80s trying to feed JHPs through surplus govt. 1911s and they got a rep like the AR-15 as "jamomatics" because of something that happened in the 60s in Vietnam. Back in 82 the AK-47s was the greatest assault rifle in the world (because almost NOBODY in the US had shot one yet) and even gun rags tried to promote the Mini 14 as a better survival rifle than the Colt AR-15. Because there will always be somebody who just doesn't know WTF they are talking about.
This crap is always hilarious to me. You want to talk 1911's, talk to Larry Vickers, he's a big fan and it's not because 1911s suck. Hell even Kyle Lamb will set a person straight on 1911s even if he does disable the grip safety for some reason I can't fully understand.
The 1911 isn't and will never again be the "one handgun to rule them all", but it's still a viable option. I'll always own a S70 1911 and a G19, even if 80% of my shooting is actually done with SIGs and HKs. People need to stop playing the "Glock vs 1911", "9mm vs 45", "Batman vs. Capt. America" kiddie games and just learn to shoot their f'ing guns already.
P2Vaircrewman
12-31-22, 10:41
Owned a Series 80 Colt 1991A1 and it was my EDC pistol 20 years ago. Glock 19 is more practical but I was nostalgic back then and not so wise. Everyone told me Colt "makes junk now" but I didn't listen and bought it anyway. Kept it stock, never had any failures or any issues, it was VERY accurate out to 25 yards. Only sold it when .45 ACP ammo went up so much in price I couldn't practice much, but I still miss it. Great gun.
Never sell a Colt.
Every gun loving Amertican should own a 1911...... I have a few including a Colt, but prefer Dan Wessons
I own a Rock Island Tac Ultra in 10mm....heavy gun but shoots 10mm well and if I run out of ammo I can use it as a club.
The cerakote isn't as durable but the polished feed ramp handles ammo well. I would upgrade it, starting with the sights, trigger and internal frame parts, then the safety. It's not a bad gun, but one I am going to probably sell in the near future to thin the herd.
gunnerblue
12-31-22, 12:35
Bingo. That's the one. I remember guys running mixed load magazines trying to make one choke.
I think the problem was people back in the 80s trying to feed JHPs through surplus govt. 1911s and they got a rep like the AR-15 as "jamomatics" because of something that happened in the 60s in Vietnam. Back in 82 the AK-47s was the greatest assault rifle in the world (because almost NOBODY in the US had shot one yet) and even gun rags tried to promote the Mini 14 as a better survival rifle than the Colt AR-15. Because there will always be somebody who just doesn't know WTF they are talking about.
This crap is always hilarious to me. You want to talk 1911's, talk to Larry Vickers, he's a big fan and it's not because 1911s suck. Hell even Kyle Lamb will set a person straight on 1911s even if he does disable the grip safety for some reason I can't fully understand.
The 1911 isn't and will never again be the "one handgun to rule them all", but it's still a viable option. I'll always own a S70 1911 and a G19, even if 80% of my shooting is actually done with SIGs and HKs. People need to stop playing the "Glock vs 1911", "9mm vs 45", "Batman vs. Capt. America" kiddie games and just learn to shoot their f'ing guns already.
Clint Smith and Wayne Novak are fans of pinned grip safeties as well. Some folks have had problems disengaging the grip safety when handling the gun, one reason that the Ed Brown Memory Grrove safety was such a popular replacement part.
TheGhostRider
12-31-22, 17:36
I guess I should probably throw my junk arse Rock Island in the dumpster… after 8 or so cases of ammo it’s bound to blow up any second.
As for my DW Valor… well, I’m starting to regret my purchase. It just burns through ammo like a sewing machine. I’ll never be able to stock up on ammo.
I regret selling my Colts.
I guess I should probably throw my junk arse Rock Island in the dumpster… after 8 or so cases of ammo it’s bound to blow up any second.
As for my DW Valor… well, I’m starting to regret my purchase. It just burns through ammo like a sewing machine. I’ll never be able to stock up on ammo.
I regret selling my Colts.
If you have a RIA that works, you have one that works.
TheGhostRider
12-31-22, 17:53
If you have a RIA that works, you have one that works.
So true! Purchased with very low expectations and yet pleasantly surprised. It’s one that popped into my life less than cheap. I use good mags and hardball only. Keeps on ticking. Doesn’t owe me anything.
So true! Purchased with very low expectations and yet pleasantly surprised. It’s one that popped into my life less than cheap. I use good mags and hardball only. Keeps on ticking. Doesn’t owe me anything.
I keep waiting for my Para to malf. They definitely have the rep and most people wouldn't dream of carrying one that hadn't been "gone over" by a 1911 smith. It ain't pretty so it was my "take this abuse" 1911 for awhile, I got it in 1994 right before the Clinton ban so it was my hi cap .45. The only reason it didn't become part of my EDC rotation is I shoot my P226 so much better.
How reliable has it been? Is it the 4.25" Carry?
I have always been in the 1911's should be 45 crowd. But I have had such problems with them.
I would like to here more about the Tisas 9mm 1911's
A friend and I both bought one. They are both full sized and between them we've got 1300 plus rounds through them of everything from 115 to 147, JHP, FMJ, +P. The 9mm 1911's are very soft shooting. My Colt CCU 9mm ran great, and the Springfield Professional that the same friend bought from me is an excellent pistol. I wouldn't carry a 3,000 pistol so I sold it.
Bingo. That's the one. I remember guys running mixed load magazines trying to make one choke.
I think the problem was people back in the 80s trying to feed JHPs through surplus govt. 1911s and they got a rep like the AR-15 as "jamomatics" because of something that happened in the 60s in Vietnam. Back in 82 the AK-47s was the greatest assault rifle in the world (because almost NOBODY in the US had shot one yet) and even gun rags tried to promote the Mini 14 as a better survival rifle than the Colt AR-15. Because there will always be somebody who just doesn't know WTF they are talking about.
This crap is always hilarious to me. You want to talk 1911's, talk to Larry Vickers, he's a big fan and it's not because 1911s suck. Hell even Kyle Lamb will set a person straight on 1911s even if he does disable the grip safety for some reason I can't fully understand.
The 1911 isn't and will never again be the "one handgun to rule them all", but it's still a viable option. I'll always own a S70 1911 and a G19, even if 80% of my shooting is actually done with SIGs and HKs. People need to stop playing the "Glock vs 1911", "9mm vs 45", "Batman vs. Capt. America" kiddie games and just learn to shoot their f'ing guns already.
A lot of people do not understand the difference between a ramped and an un-ramped barrel. They don't understand that most un-ramped barrels do not feed hollow-points well. If you feed a 1911 what it was designed to shoot, they can be very reliable.
I own a Rock Island Armory billboard model chambered in 9mm. It has an un-ramped barrel that won't feed most hollow-point ammunition. It is stone cold reliable with any round nose reload, factory FMJ, etc., and can run hundreds of rounds without a hiccup. Load it up with hollow-points and it will choke. The RIA 1911s are built a little loose at the factory. I installed a EGW barrel bushing and it will shoot significantly tighter groups at 50 meters than my Springfield Armory Range Officer, which has a much better trigger and sights.
A lot of people do not understand the difference between a ramped and an un-ramped barrel. They don't understand that most un-ramped barrels do not feed hollow-points well. If you feed a 1911 what it was designed to shoot, they can be very reliable.
I own a Rock Island Armory billboard model chambered in 9mm. It has an un-ramped barrel that won't feed most hollow-point ammunition. It is stone cold reliable with any round nose reload, factory FMJ, etc., and can run hundreds of rounds without a hiccup. Load it up with hollow-points and it will choke. The RIA 1911s are built a little loose at the factory. I installed a EGW barrel bushing and it will shoot significantly tighter groups at 50 meters than my Springfield Armory Range Officer, which has a much better trigger and sights.
A lot of people don't understand a lot of things. And yeah, using correct ammo for the design is one many miss and then they criticize the gun. Same people who try and feed +P+ ammo into handguns and then have the nerve to be surprised when the handgun beats itself to death.
That's also why everyone loved Glaser safety slugs back in the day, they were one of the few defensive rounds that gave decent terminal ballistics and fed reliably in handguns designed for ball ammo.
A lot of people don't understand a lot of things. And yeah, using correct ammo for the design is one many miss and then they criticize the gun. Same people who try and feed +P+ ammo into handguns and then have the nerve to be surprised when the handgun beats itself to death.
That's also why everyone loved Glaser safety slugs back in the day, they were one of the few defensive rounds that gave decent terminal ballistics and fed reliably in handguns designed for ball ammo.
It's a good thing I carry a first aid kit with my shooting gear. A member of my gun club was shooting 9mm +P+ through his S&W Shield and it went up like a bomb. He is lucky he did not lose his support hand.
Naturally, S&W was at fault. It had nothing to do with incorrect ammunition selection.
I don’t own a single 1911 with a ramped barrel and I have never had any issues with hollow point ammunition. I’m sure there are some bullet designs that would not work well, I shoot mostly HST, gold dot, and XTP/HAP. A well built 1911 doesn’t need a ramped barrel to be reliable in my experience.
Averageman
01-01-23, 11:23
A lot of this drama happened in the 70's.
Yes people did fix barrels, but more than that, they redesigned ammunition. There was a lot of push to get those 1911's to be reliable for LEO's.
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