View Full Version : Cerakote finish vs others
To my knowledge, Cerakote is a spray on/bake on finish. Parkerizing, blueing, and anodizing are chemical processes that affect the surface of the metal. In industrial applications this requires tanks of the appropriate chemicals in certain quantities.
I'm noticing more and more guns using Cerakote these days. Is it fair to say that Cerakote generates less in the way of hazardous waste and results in less disposal cost to the manufacturer?
I doubt that any of those companies really care about the waste cost. It's more about start up costs. We have a local guy that just started building crap AR's. He's having lowers milled off-site and in the raw. He can cerakote them inhouse and cheaply. He buys uppers and handguards in the raw as well, then coats them too. A lot of dudes are into boldly colored AR's and this "manufacturer" get's them into their hands.
Colored guns aren't my thing and I far prefer hard anodized uppers, lowers and handguards in black and I prefer proper my barrels to be parkerized.
It's cheap and fast. The future man like everything else it ain't worth a damn
If you want a great firearms Finnish that will last. Try this.
https://www.norrells.com/
My favorite is the Black Simi Gloss.
My method
Disassemble everything degrees and strip everything with something like acetone. Then hang the parts in the oven from cut up coat hangers.
Metal parts. Once well heated to 300* I take outside by the hanger with vice grips into a dry non windy environment, and airbrush it on in a fine light mist until lightly but completely covered. It will sizzle dry on contact so you can use a clean oven mit to rehang it upside down to get all angles And where the hanger was previously attached.
Replace hanging back in the oven at 300* for one hour to cure.
This is not a paint. It is the best firearms coating I have ever seen. It is amazing over anodizing in parkerizing for a ultimate sealed protectant.
My understanding if applied correctly, Cerakote is GTG in terms of corrosion resistance and wear. I had my VP9 slide milled and Cerakoted via that place, and it looks good and so far, shows zero wear:
https://primarymachine.com/
Not sure how it stacks up against others.
My new Wilson has a DLC coating on the slide.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-01-23, 17:54
A paint and coating are used somewhat interchangeably, with paint implying lower tech/performance and a coating higher tech/performance- usually because of chemical crosslinking from either heat or chemical reaction.
When it comes to house paint or gun parts, its the surface and the prep that really determine how good the coating is. With adhesion to the substrate, you are screwed.
So a quick cheat sheet would be that coating performance follows from lowest to best
-single can air dry
-two-component air dry (mix part A and Part B)
-Single or two component heat cure- (and I don't mean just drying, that it NEEDS the heat to cure).
Cerakoat is one of the few companies that has good tech and good marketing- and even better- good support for the industry.
This is not a paint. It is the best firearms coating I have ever seen. It is amazing over anodizing in parkerizing for a ultimate sealed protectant.
Sure its not... :rolleyes:
I will say I have some stuff that was colored with Brownell's Alumi Hyde like 20 years ago and it is holding strong.
Cerakote is demonstrably not paint. Rattle can your AR and it starts wearing before you are finished.
It can be used on motorcycle mufflers and stands up to not only friction, but heat as well. Anyone who has ridden a bike knows how hot that gets.
Cerakote isn’t easy. You need to prepare the surface properly, need a decent spray gun and take care during application and curing.
When the surface is prepped properly and applied properly, should last a very long time and stand up to years of abuse.
There are other options, but none, at this point in time, hold up as well as cerakote. But what do I know, I’ve actually used it.
Try this with paint.
https://youtu.be/SzpS-5OfyUU
For military small arms we still go with anodized aluminum and Parkerized steel. Is something like Cerakote superior?
A paint and coating are used somewhat interchangeably, with paint implying lower tech/performance and a coating higher tech/performance- usually because of chemical crosslinking from either heat or chemical reaction.
When it comes to house paint or gun parts, its the surface and the prep that really determine how good the coating is. With adhesion to the substrate, you are screwed.
So a quick cheat sheet would be that coating performance follows from lowest to best
-single can air dry
-two-component air dry (mix part A and Part B)
-Single or two component heat cure- (and I don't mean just drying, that it NEEDS the heat to cure).
Cerakoat is one of the few companies that has good tech and good marketing- and even better- good support for the industry.
Which is a unicorn for almost any industry, so it's easy to understand why some will assume if it's easier and less $ to apply than other coatings, it must be sub par to many other coatings. It seems in this very rare instance, it also happens to be an excellent option.
One More Time
01-02-23, 09:55
On my Sig factory Cerakoted guns they are sprayed over the anodizing and slide finish (nitron)
It still wears off in spots but it's not down to bare steel or aluminum.
The SR762 I have has some sort of spray on finish to the receivers that doesn't appear to be anodized under it as I see shiny aluminum.
I bought a small gravity fed gun to spray a FAL with Norrell's years ago and never got around to it.
Been thinking of using them again to spray some of my AR's with.
Sure its not... :rolleyes:
If you follow the link in post #4 and read the FAQ about the product, it is clearly articulated why the product is considered a specialty coating as opposed to a paint.
On my Sig factory Cerakoted guns they are sprayed over the anodizing and slide finish (nitron)
It still wears off in spots but it's not down to bare steel or aluminum.
The SR762 I have has some sort of spray on finish to the receivers that doesn't appear to be anodized under it as I see shiny aluminum.
I bought a small gravity fed gun to spray a FAL with Norrell's years ago and never got around to it.
Been thinking of using them again to spray some of my AR's with.
I'm no expert, but I thought starting with bear metal was best practice for long term wear.
From what I'm reading, people are saying that Cerakote is more abrasion resistant than Moly Resin. And as "durable" as Cerakote is, it is not as durable as DLC, NP3, Nitride, or even Parkerizing AFAIK.
From what I'm reading, people are saying that Cerakote is more abrasion resistant than Moly Resin. And as "durable" as Cerakote is, it is not as durable as DLC, NP3, Nitride, or even Parkerizing AFAIK.
I agree with this statement. If I had the option for my home brew lowers, I'd anodize, but it simply isn't practical at home. Cerakote isn't infallible, its just the best option when you are in DIY land and a good overall option if you like fancy colors. I stick to black for my DIY stuff.
There was a old Remington fact sheet that claimed that Parkerizing was 60% more durable than matte blue.
titsonritz
01-02-23, 13:49
On receivers, is the anodizing removed for Cerakote or does the Cerakote just go over top of the anodizing?
On receivers, is the anodizing removed for Cerakote or does the Cerakote just go over top of the anodizing?
Proper application is to rough it up in a cabinet blaster but to not remove the ano. It’s a great surface for the cerakote to adhere to.
titsonritz
01-02-23, 14:14
Proper application is to rough it up in a cabinet blaster but to not remove the ano. It’s a great surface for the cerakote to adhere to.
OK that is what I thought, thanks.
One More Time
01-02-23, 15:13
I'm no expert, but I thought starting with bear metal was best practice for long term wear.
At least when the paint has worn away, which it will no matter what it is, the underlying metal is still protected.
My 30 year old nitron and anodized guns have lasted.
The cerakoted one shows significantly more wear after a year of use. The slide is bare steel underneath with a smooth texture, the wear is rougher than the anodized frame which feathers out more like rattle can paint does.
The poor application to the lower on my SR762 is bad enough to warrant a return for fixing.
But I won't, I just keep an eye on the pimples and make sure it's not growing white powder underneath it.
If it were anodized under the crappy finish I wouldn't sweat it as much.
The best adhesion to steel comes right after parking something fresh from the hot rinse.
If prepped properly for parking it's already thoroughly degreased, a few minutes in the oven to flash off the remaining moisture then hose it down to seal it up.
If I was doing something aluminum and it was in the white I would look at some of the stuff Ion-Bond has.
Lots of colors and materials using PVD application.
CCR refinishing will not remove anodizing, but they do have a finish that matches their CPII nickel finish.
The bluing is pretty much gone on my P220, I've thought about sending it them for their Dusk finish, which is a dark nickle.
Should look snazzy and wear better than bluing.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-02-23, 16:47
Which is a unicorn for almost any industry, so it's easy to understand why some will assume if it's easier and less $ to apply than other coatings, it must be sub par to many other coatings. It seems in this very rare instance, it also happens to be an excellent option.
The "Bose" effect... Some of their stuff is great (aviation headsets) but their commercial stuff isn't that special.
I'm no expert, but I thought starting with bear metal was best practice for long term wear.
I would not want to get down to bare bear and try to paint him...
From what I'm reading, people are saying that Cerakote is more abrasion resistant than Moly Resin. And as "durable" as Cerakote is, it is not as durable as DLC, NP3, Nitride, or even Parkerizing AFAIK.
I don't know about Parkerizing, but the first two I agree with. Sometimes I think Cerakote gets a bad rap on abrasion because as an organic coating, you are adding a mil or two to the dimensions, and tall stuff gets rubbed.
Proper application is to rough it up in a cabinet blaster but to not remove the ano. It’s a great surface for the cerakote to adhere to.
Bare aluminum can be a bitch to get adhesion to.
From what I'm reading, people are saying that Cerakote is more abrasion resistant than Moly Resin. And as "durable" as Cerakote is, it is not as durable as DLC, NP3, Nitride, or even Parkerizing AFAIK.
You come at that paint crap with any sort of good solvent and it IS going to get out of the way.
You come at that paint crap with any sort of good solvent and it IS going to get out of the way.
I'm very curious as to which good solvent you've found that will remove Cerakote. I've removed cured Cerakote by abrasive blasting the part.
I'm very curious as to which good solvent you've found that will remove Cerakote. I've removed cured Cerakote by abrasive blasting the part.
I’ve dunked cerakote samples overnight in acetone, xylene, mek, and alcohol to see if anything will remove it. Nothing affected it.
I’ve dunked cerakote samples overnight in acetone, xylene, mek, and alcohol to see if anything will remove it. Nothing affected it.
So have I, with the same results.
So have I, with the same results.
I wish there was a good solvent that would remove it vs abrasive blasting. It would make do overs so much easier
I wish there was a good solvent that would remove it vs abrasive blasting. It would make do overs so much easier
I deliberate forever before Cerakoting anything. "Is this really the color I want this gun/part to be forever?"
I wish there was a good solvent that would remove it vs abrasive blasting. It would make do overs so much easier
Ain’t that the truth! I just live with my mistakes…… But I’m sure the expert will be back soon with our solution based on his years of experience.
I wish there was a good solvent that would remove it vs abrasive blasting. It would make do overs so much easier
Bead blasting it off is the only way we have found to get it off. Cerakote is far better durability-wise than MolyResin.
It's an excellent product that is extremely durable on parked finishes and anodization. Works on pistols but the slide will show holster wear at some point.
I worked at a defense plant in the past, and we had a chemical called methylene chloride (aka dichloromethane) that we used to degrease rocket motor tubes and various components. It's chief attribute was that it left no residue, IIRC. We had to wear special gloves and respirators when using it. If you wore standard latex gloves they would literally melt off your hands in 5 minutes or so. That stuff was nasty.
If Cerakote can resist that crap, I'm a believer. I don't think it's available for consumer use, though. Probably banned in many states nowadays.
I worked at a defense plant in the past, and we had a chemical called methylene chloride (aka dichloromethane) that we used to degrease rocket motor tubes and various components. It's chief attribute was that it left no residue, IIRC. We had to wear special gloves and respirators when using it. If you wore standard latex gloves they would literally melt off your hands in 5 minutes or so. That stuff was nasty.
If Cerakote can resist that crap, I'm a believer. I don't think it's available for consumer use, though. Probably banned in many states nowadays.
Methylene Chloride was a super common ingredient in the good paint removers. It was recently banned, so I had to remove it from my store shelves, so I still have several gallons in my shop. It's good stuff, but you definitely need to use a respirator and good ventilation. I have heard that complete immersion in Methylene Chloride for 24 hrs. will loosen us Cerakote, but I haven't personally done it.
Averageman
01-05-23, 00:28
I worked at a defense plant in the past, and we had a chemical called methylene chloride (aka dichloromethane) that we used to degrease rocket motor tubes and various components. It's chief attribute was that it left no residue, IIRC. We had to wear special gloves and respirators when using it. If you wore standard latex gloves they would literally melt off your hands in 5 minutes or so. That stuff was nasty.
If Cerakote can resist that crap, I'm a believer. I don't think it's available for consumer use, though. Probably banned in many states nowadays.
I shit you not, in the very early 80's a 55 gallon drum of that stuff magically appeared in our motorpool.
Being Soldiers, you see where this is going.
I got some on my forearm and it left a scar for six months.
You really dont want to read the Hazard label if you plan on having kids.
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