View Full Version : Let’s talk about narcissism
eightmillimeter
01-22-23, 03:23
Who here gets this, or been through it? I’m in the middle of a bloody divorce. 5 kids involved.
I started talking with a pro psychologist in July and he said something that changed my life. He said “she’s gaslighting you man.”
I didn’t think anything of it the day, but a few days later my life changed. Did a simple google search and then all of a sudden the last 12 years of my life unraveled.
My pending ex is a covert or malignant narcissistic sociopath and has been living different lives with every person she was ever involved.
Just trying to keep my kids safe from her manipulation…. Anyone here got a tip or two to relate to this nightmare?
Been through it, survived it. My suggestions as follows:
1. Your life is hard right now. It will get harder, and the hard times will last for a few years. Accept it. But also know that this period is temporary, it will pass, and your life will improve, dramatically.
2. Take stock of your finances and cut back hard, right now. It's austerity time: subscriptions, guns, off-road toys, whatever you have: sell, sell, sell. You're going to need zero debt and a large cash reserve to see you through to the other side.
3. Do NOT self-medicate: NO booze, NO drugs, NO naked girls. You're going to have some bad days, really dark days. Don't make things worse by trying to mask the negative feelings. Take the pain, knowing it WILL pass.
Please PM if needed, I will respond.
Hang in there, brother, and hang on: You're gonna make it.
Yes. There are "wives" out there that fit your description. I had one and went through similar.
At risk of sounding like a Dork; I remained true to myself, did the "right thing(s)" and got through it, even was given custody of kid.
Bunch is correct.
You can always get "more stuff".
Hang
Fukking
Tough
To echo buncheong... it's a tough path but once you've unloaded this piece of shit and taken a few years to rebuild, it will be great.
WTF does gaslighting mean by the way?
Who here gets this, or been through it? I’m in the middle of a bloody divorce. 5 kids involved.
I started talking with a pro psychologist in July and he said something that changed my life. He said “she’s gaslighting you man.”
I didn’t think anything of it the day, but a few days later my life changed. Did a simple google search and then all of a sudden the last 12 years of my life unraveled.
My pending ex is a covert or malignant narcissistic sociopath and has been living different lives with every person she was ever involved.
Just trying to keep my kids safe from her manipulation…. Anyone here got a tip or two to relate to this nightmare?
Been through it and you have to think of the kids, not yourself first. I wasn't dealing with a sociopath, so not sure what is best for the kids in that scenario. Generally, it is better the parents act like adults and not stab the other in the back whenever the kids are around, no matter how bad things get.
Remember, as hard as it is on you, it is even harder on the kids who don't understand everything happening.
I too echo everything Bunchie advised already.
Don't Google "how do you stop a body from decomposing" like that guy from Massachusetts with the missing wife.
Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk
WTF does gaslighting mean by the way?
"Gaslighting is a form of psychological abuse in which a person or group causes someone to question their own sanity, memories, or perception of reality. People who experience gaslighting may feel confused, anxious, or as though they cannot trust themselves."
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/gaslighting
"Gaslighting is a form of psychological abuse in which a person or group causes someone to question their own sanity, memories, or perception of reality. People who experience gaslighting may feel confused, anxious, or as though they cannot trust themselves."
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/gaslighting
Thank you
Andy
Good advice here already. In tough/dark times, speaking with psych pro can be not just helpful, but essential. Buddy of mine going through similar after walking in on her banging the trainer she'd asked for...
I don't have experience as it applies to ex narcissism, plenty in other areas, both parents were toxic narcissists. Neither were bad/evil people, just F-ed in the head.
Remember that you love your kids more than you hate her/each other under all circumstances. Try to get her to see/agree same and move forward based on that premise. It's very easy to go down an ugly direction, and never forget, lawyers make $ when you fight. I come from a family full of lawyers.
You may have to eat some chit that tastes really bad that is ultimately best for your kids.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-22-23, 10:27
Blah, blah, blah. Let’s talk about me,
I'm blessed to have a wonderful & sane wife & cannot give any advice from that point of view...I can however suggest some from the kiddos view watching my Dad go through a couple.
Keep the kids as your focus & let them know you love them often & none of what is going on is because of them...do not bad mouth their mother or argue with her in front of them regardless the circumstances.
I watched a friend go through something that involved massive amounts of gaslighting, infidelity, and perhaps some general insanity thrown in. No idea if narcissism was involved. But dang, she lied constantly and cost him 3 years of his life, not to mention the money she stole and career advancement he couldn’t take.
Observations:
1. Don’t badmouth her to the kids.
2. Take time to settle who you are. If talking to someone helps, do it. You may have some things to work through to help you get out the other side. Marriage merges identities to some extent, and finding that identity to be flawed or false hits hard.
3. Avoid false escapes. Alcohol is the easy one, as well as porn, but drugs may be just as accessible, and avoid them all. Go for walks. Find a friend that will go shooting with you. Frankly, go to a church that is part of the EFCA or SBC; that’s oddly specific, but those tend to be very interested in helping others and open to “new people.” I can’t tell you to find faith, because that doesn’t mean much without knowing you; but, believing there is a God who personally cares about you and who experienced being lied about is comforting.
4. Track everything. Know how much money you have, where she and am you have spent it, how much monthly costs are, bank account records, emails, texts, have it all saved and easily accessible somewhere. If she is the problem, then as tedious and miserable as the experience is, a good attorney will help you through it.
5. Help others. Life may be miserable. Find a way to make someone else’s better along the way.
6. Find a good attorney. By good, I mean both effective and trusted by the local courts. I observed that having the wife get a cheap attorney that came across as lazy or sleazy absolutely did not help her.
These are thoughts from observation. Others have given good advice as well.
MA2_Navy_Veteran
01-23-23, 11:31
Look, this can only go two ways. The two of you either get divorced, or not.
If one of you is determined to go through with it, IT WILL HAPPEN. So you need to face the facts...
If the divorce is happening, first things first - Secure your assets as best as you can. By this, I mean:
Have a close friend rent a storage unit (to which you keep the key/entry code) and put your high-value personal possessions in it (guns/ammo/rare coins/ect... nothing that is registered or has a paper trail) Pay your close friend in cash for this service. (As far as anyone else is concerned - you gave away, lost, or sold for petty cash these possessions)
Start a new personal bank account (if currently using a joint account) start making small cash deposits into this new personal account (less than $300 at a day).
Start a personal trust fund for the kids (as wives/ex-wives usually cannot gain access to these).
Forget the psych & hire a divorce attorney NOW, and seek additional advice after doing the above (& DO NOT tell them about the storage unit deal with your close friend or about any of the items you have stored there - as those items no longer exist to the outside world)
Second, rent a small apartment or trailer. Even if you do not move into this, clean it up & furnish it with the basics so as to have a place to go (for yourself & the kids if necessary) should circumstances require (as this will help you in regards to gaining custody of the kids should the ex-wife get the house from the divorce proceedings.)
If the divorce is not happening (she's not determined to go through with it) - First things first - Secure your assets as best as you can, and by this I mean:
She's your wife - You married her, and more than likely fathered at least one of your children with her, so stop focusing on YOUR pains & problems & do your best to try to be the man that your wife & mother of your children actually wanted to marry.
It takes two to make the dance work, but almost always requires that the man lead, so either LEAD, follow, or get out, and if you've decided to get out (divorce), then maybe reread through the first part of this post again.
MA2
I have a good friend going through this. Many forms of mental illness are hereditary, so your children may begin to display some of the same traits as their mother. Just be aware of it and seek professional help for them.
Gaslighting is becoming another one of those terms that is being overused and changed by the public.
To echo buncheong... it's a tough path but once you've unloaded this piece of shit and taken a few years to rebuild, it will be great.
WTF does gaslighting mean by the way?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ky2w9kicjc4v5sj/16744969637103239387157598396657.jpg?raw=1
Op, divorce sucks, but it feels great to be free. You probably dont even understand how bad it is, that will be a few years from now when you look back.
Aside from the legal stuff suggested, focus on being the best man you can, but dont dwell on your pain or frustration. Workout, take care of yourself and responsibilities, especially the children.
Find someone you can vent to. You'll need a night once in a while to have fun with male companions and vent, but dont make it a habbit.
Like working out, its gonna suck, but youll be happier when its over, and your children will be better off.
Who here gets this, or been through it? I’m in the middle of a bloody divorce. 5 kids involved.
I started talking with a pro psychologist in July and he said something that changed my life. He said “she’s gaslighting you man.”
I didn’t think anything of it the day, but a few days later my life changed. Did a simple google search and then all of a sudden the last 12 years of my life unraveled.
My pending ex is a covert or malignant narcissistic sociopath and has been living different lives with every person she was ever involved.
Just trying to keep my kids safe from her manipulation…. Anyone here got a tip or two to relate to this nightmare?
Get as far away as possible, little or no contact. Keep your kids as far away as possible.
There is almost nothing these people won't do, your brain doesn't work like theirs, you won't see it coming. Living life on 24 hour "psycho alert" is no kind of life.
Warn your kids to be careful, it won't accomplish much but maybe it will. If they buy into her BS, they are going to be very vulnerable. She will play your kids like "pawns" to get what she wants. There is probably no lie she won't tell them to confuse them.
Averageman
01-23-23, 17:43
Get as far away as possible, little or no contact. Keep your kids as far away as possible.
There is almost nothing these people won't do, your brain doesn't work like theirs, you won't see it coming. Living life on 24 hour "psycho alert" is no kind of life.
Warn your kids to be careful, it won't accomplish much but maybe it will. If they buy into her BS, they are going to be very vulnerable. She will play your kids like "pawns" to get what she wants. There is probably no lie she won't tell them to confuse them.
I went through this in 95 and got custody of my Son. I can't tell you how rare it was for an Active Duty Soldier to get custody of his kids back then, but it worked. I have no idea what the total bill for that was, but I got my Kid. I would be damned before I would let another Man raise my Son.
I'm no Saint, but I have tried very hard not to bad mouth his Mother. I have nearly bitten my tounge in half a couple of times not to, but 25 years later, I'm rather surprised at times of his own very harsh critisim's of her.
I knew I wanted my Son to do better than I did, so I put every nickle she sent for Child Support in my Son's college fund. I also went back at 36 to finish my Degree because I know the odds are stacked that if Dad does it, his Son will also. I did a semester of Statistics at 2 Am with a bottle of Crown Royal as incentive.
I have the best relationship of my life with my Son, I wouldn't have it any other way.
I went through this in 95 and got custody of my Son. I can't tell you how rare it was for an Active Duty Soldier to get custody of his kids back then, but it worked. I have no idea what the total bill for that was, but I got my Kid. I would be damned before I would let another Man raise my Son.
I'm no Saint, but I have tried very hard not to bad mouth his Mother. I have nearly bitten my tounge in half a couple of times not to, but 25 years later, I'm rather surprised at times of his own very harsh critisim's of her.
I knew I wanted my Son to do better than I did, so I put every nickle she sent for Child Support in my Son's college fund. I also went back at 36 to finish my Degree because I know the odds are stacked that if Dad does it, his Son will also. I did a semester of Statistics at 2 Am with a bottle of Crown Royal as incentive.
I have the best relationship of my life with my Son, I wouldn't have it any other way.
You did everything right.
Kids won't understand as kids, but when they are adults they will see everyone for who they really were. My dad wasn't perfect either but when I grew up, it wasn't hard to figure out who the bad guys were and who the good guys were.
I imagine it's probably hard to not bad mouth a complete psycho who did everything possible to ruin your life.
eightmillimeter
01-27-23, 12:46
I’d like to thank everyone who kind of “gets” it.
This issue is no small matter indeed. This type of behavior and thinking is becoming more prevalent, especially in females.
Gaslighting is no joke. It’s straight up mental manipulation and abuse. I will never judge another soul, man or woman, struggling with an abusive relationship, let alone and emotionally or psychologically abusive relationship. I would have rather just been assaulted on a daily basis than what I went through. I’m an educated man, but no amount of knowledge or experience can save you from these people. They are vampires that hone in on your weak character traits (generally the traits normal people consider good) and suck the life out of you. It really is death by papercuts.
I’m a 15+ year police veteran. After I began noticing very concerning things in and from the kids I knew I had to do something to keep them safe. She wasn’t negotiating anyways so there was no point wasting more money in fees when I was going to be in court anyways. I filed for custody.
I had to go to my temporary hearing with one of the worst possible judges. My attorney was strongly urging me to just settle something because there was genuine concern if we went to the bench she would get it all. I stood my ground. I went to court and told my story to the first person who was actually required to listen. He saw right through the BS and I had a ruling in less than a week. I got primary care of the kids. Unheard of in Iowa let alone anywhere else, especially with the judge I had.
So for all the dads out there that got bent by the “system,” never give up.
Also, while I can appreciate the comments about reconciliation, in these circumstances that is the worst advice you can give somebody in an abusive relationship. Never ever tell anyone to try and make something work, people like me are highly susceptible to unintentional bad advice, especially from people who have their own divorce experience. There is not settling with a narcissist once they decide they’re finished with you. These people are sick to a major degree.
I’d like to thank everyone who kind of “gets” it.
This issue is no small matter indeed. This type of behavior and thinking is becoming more prevalent, especially in females.
Gaslighting is no joke. It’s straight up mental manipulation and abuse. I will never judge another soul, man or woman, struggling with an abusive relationship, let alone and emotionally or psychologically abusive relationship. I would have rather just been assaulted on a daily basis than what I went through. I’m an educated man, but no amount of knowledge or experience can save you from these people. They are vampires that hone in on your weak character traits (generally the traits normal people consider good) and suck the life out of you. It really is death by papercuts.
I’m a 15+ year police veteran. After I began noticing very concerning things in and from the kids I knew I had to do something to keep them safe. She wasn’t negotiating anyways so there was no point wasting more money in fees when I was going to be in court anyways. I filed for custody.
I had to go to my temporary hearing with one of the worst possible judges. My attorney was strongly urging me to just settle something because there was genuine concern if we went to the bench she would get it all. I stood my ground. I went to court and told my story to the first person who was actually required to listen. He saw right through the BS and I had a ruling in less than a week. I got primary care of the kids. Unheard of in Iowa let alone anywhere else, especially with the judge I had.
So for all the dads out there that got bent by the “system,” never give up.
Also, while I can appreciate the comments about reconciliation, in these circumstances that is the worst advice you can give somebody in an abusive relationship. Never ever tell anyone to try and make something work, people like me are highly susceptible to unintentional bad advice, especially from people who have their own divorce experience. There is not settling with a narcissist once they decide they’re finished with you. These people are sick to a major degree.
You actually got somebody impartial who listened. Amazing.
Then a judge ruled in your favor. Astonishing.
Now make sure, without deliberately bad mouthing her at every opportunity, do your best to WARN your kids. They are still pretty vulnerable.
Do not make contact for any kind of reason. I've seen it all.
"He raped me."
"He beat me."
"Those are HIS drugs."
If your house isn't ringed by motion detectors and security cameras, do it.
Never meet her anyplace without an attorney.
Don't allow her access to anything like your home or vehicle.
Right now she is somewhere planning out how to make you PAY for this outrage.
A friend posted this on another site, thought I'd post it here:
https://youtu.be/vzeyBPmgG0Y
Sorry for the Necropost gents but I've been radio silent from here for over a year. I just got done with the finalization of my divorce back in January. I didn't fully understand Gaslighting and Narcissism until this messy divorce. I got hit with my news that my wife was thinking about a divorce in Nov '22 then wanting a divorce in Feb '23. I was lead to believe it was all my fault and there are times I still feel some guilt. I initially claimed 100% responsibility and worked my ass off to rectify and fix my marriage. I was doing it not only because I loved her but also I didn't want to lose my 2 boys. It was all a ruse as she was having an affair with a fellow co-worker(he was married as well with a pregnant wife). It still is tearing me up when the weeks I don't have the boys are upon me. We were together for almost 13yrs with 10 of those being married. It has truly crushed me.
hotbiggun42
03-09-24, 15:55
Was this thread created to attack me personally? I kid.
The only advice i can give you is get a great attorney and be ruthless. Dont tire of the BS involved instead learn to love it. Be a advocate for your children and maybe let them sit with a therapists to see if any of the children are taking your devorce personally.
Example my oldest son thought he was at fault for our divorce. I had no idea he felt that way. He told the therapists he cried everyday because of it.
Averageman
03-09-24, 16:05
Sorry for the Necropost gents but I've been radio silent from here for over a year. I just got done with the finalization of my divorce back in January. I didn't fully understand Gaslighting and Narcissism until this messy divorce. I got hit with my news that my wife was thinking about a divorce in Nov '22 then wanting a divorce in Feb '23. I was lead to believe it was all my fault and there are times I still feel some guilt. I initially claimed 100% responsibility and worked my ass off to rectify and fix my marriage. I was doing it not only because I loved her but also I didn't want to lose my 2 boys. It was all a ruse as she was having an affair with a fellow co-worker(he was married as well with a pregnant wife). It still is tearing me up when the weeks I don't have the boys are upon me. We were together for almost 13yrs with 10 of those being married. It has truly crushed me.
Well, you've got kids so if getting over it means never seeing her again, you'll never get over it.
Holidays, Graduations, Birthdays, it goes on and on.
It gets better as your life calms down and things stabilize. So ten years from now, it will be bettter.
Was this thread created to attack me personally? I kid.
The only advice i can give you is get a great attorney and be ruthless. Dont tire of the BS involved instead learn to love it. Be a advocate for your children and maybe let them sit with a therapists to see if any of the children are taking your devorce personally.
Example my oldest son thought he was at fault for our divorce. I had no idea he felt that way. He told the therapists he cried everyday because of it.
We split our children 50/50 so I don't pay Child Support(for now). She's an OR Nurse(full of herself) and still with the same guy(OR Nurse as well). She banged a Dr. before all this because she thought it'd "be fun and no one would find out". The guy she cheated with has 2 kids as well. His wife was pregnant at the time which makes it even more disgusting. Both my boys are in therapy now because of it. They have responded well to it but they are young still(8,5) so I don't know the full ramifications yet.
Well, you've got kids so if getting over it means never seeing her again, you'll never get over it.
Holidays, Graduations, Birthdays, it goes on and on.
It gets better as your life calms down and things stabilize. So ten years from now, it will be bettter.
Yeah, I try not to interact with her. She tries to interact with me as if nothing has happened and it's no big deal. I keep our interactions merely transactional. The sight of her truly disgusts me. I've still yet to interact with this guy yet. Apparently, he yells at my youngest in his "Dad Voice". I told her I would never ever like this guy. I will be civil because I don't want to punish my kids by me doing something stupid.
I've got an employee that is a classic narcissist. Full blown. The DSM V lists 9 traits to identify and if the clinician can identify 5 of the 9, there's a diagnosis for NPD. This employee has a solid 8 and maybe all 9 depending on who you talk to. It's exhausting to deal with.
The advice about never meeting without an attorney or witness is legit and critical. I also would never communicate in a way that isn’t recorded and documented. A lot of women these days are literally insane and will say and do anything to get what they want to include accusing a completely innocent man of rape, kidnapping assault and any and everything in between.
The advice about never meeting without an attorney or witness is legit and critical. I also would never communicate in a way that isn’t recorded and documented. A lot of women these days are literally insane and will say and do anything to get what they want to include accusing a completely innocent man of rape, kidnapping assault and any and everything in between.
Before the divorce went final I was going to take my boys down to see my mom to give her some space. She contacted her dad(LEO) and said I was kidnapping my own children. He proceeded to threaten me in my house. I could beat this guy into dust if I wanted but I calmly diffused the situation. At that point in the whole process I wasn't aware of the cheating and neither was he or so he claims. Her parents have proven themselves to be dirt balls as well. Her mom tried to poison my boys against me and come to find out she'd been poisoning her daughter against me as well. Great thing is I don't have to deal with her ugly face anymore.
The advice about never meeting without an attorney or witness is legit and critical. I also would never communicate in a way that isn’t recorded and documented. A lot of women these days are literally insane and will say and do anything to get what they want to include accusing a completely innocent man of rape, kidnapping assault and any and everything in between.
Just to provide a bit of perspective.... in over 20 years as an LEO.... TWO decades... with ALL of the reported rapes I was privy to/worked... TWO turned out to be real/true. TWO. The rest were bullshit.
Narcissism and sociopathy are such difficult personalities with which to work. They are so far in left field, and their truth is never, ever THE truth. My sister-in-law has every 'trait' in the DSM checked off. She is poison, and for that reason we have no relationship with her. But according to her, everything is always our fault, never her fault, yadda yadda yadda... So we just don't engage or deal with her. If she was on life support I would unplug her ventilator to charge my phone...
If she was on life support I would unplug her ventilator to charge my phone...
Ok... that's brilliant. I'm stealing that!
Averageman
03-11-24, 10:11
I'm convinced McDonalds playground are the designated divorced parents handover spot.
Out in the open so no one will show their ass and lots of witnesses available.
I feel for you.
Narcissism and sociopathy are such difficult personalities with which to work. They are so far in left field, and their truth is never, ever THE truth. My sister-in-law has every 'trait' in the DSM checked off. She is poison, and for that reason we have no relationship with her. But according to her, everything is always our fault, never her fault, yadda yadda yadda... So we just don't engage or deal with her. If she was on life support I would unplug her ventilator to charge my phone...
They like to deal in half-truths so that way they're never technically lying. I literally had to ask very specific questions to get some of the truth and I still know there are a lot more misdeeds floating around out there. I do trade info back in forth between this guy's ex because our children are involved and we want them to be safe. She told me to stop digging but I'm the type of person who always wants to know the entire truth. Major flaw of mine. I can't let sleeping dogs lie.
hotbiggun42
03-11-24, 19:53
Probably one of the best divorce songs ever. The way Phil looks in the camera. Hes pissed!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLpfbcXTeo8
They like to deal in half-truths so that way they're never technically lying. I literally had to ask very specific questions to get some of the truth and I still know there are a lot more misdeeds floating around out there. I do trade info back in forth between this guy's ex because our children are involved and we want them to be safe. She told me to stop digging but I'm the type of person who always wants to know the entire truth. Major flaw of mine. I can't let sleeping dogs lie.
That is true, and they will tell you it is 'their' truth.
My sis-in-law said she grew up in poverty with an alcoholic father, something my wife and her other sisters flatly refute and reject, but my SIL is unmoved. All she says is that it is her truth, and no attempt and rational discourse will sway her. She is in her late 40s and single, she has told a handful of dudes God has told her they were supposed to get married. When they ran away, she told them that God would strike them down because of them ignoring God's plan. I could go on and on and on.... She's scary.
The Grinch had it all figured out…living alone in a cave with a dog.
eightmillimeter
03-12-24, 13:01
Sorry for the Necropost gents but I've been radio silent from here for over a year. I just got done with the finalization of my divorce back in January. I didn't fully understand Gaslighting and Narcissism until this messy divorce. I got hit with my news that my wife was thinking about a divorce in Nov '22 then wanting a divorce in Feb '23. I was lead to believe it was all my fault and there are times I still feel some guilt. I initially claimed 100% responsibility and worked my ass off to rectify and fix my marriage. I was doing it not only because I loved her but also I didn't want to lose my 2 boys. It was all a ruse as she was having an affair with a fellow co-worker(he was married as well with a pregnant wife). It still is tearing me up when the weeks I don't have the boys are upon me. We were together for almost 13yrs with 10 of those being married. It has truly crushed me.
Just hang in there. Don’t believe for one second you’re “finalized.”
If you need a private vent, drop me a PM anytime.
Just hang in there. Don’t believe for one second you’re “finalized.”
If you need a private vent, drop me a PM anytime.
Sent you a PM. Thanks man. Means a lot.
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