View Full Version : Drug Decriminalization Behind Terrifying Cartel-Style Killings In California
"Just last week, a small town in California’s Central Valley saw a cartel-style killing of six people, including a 72-year-old woman, a 16-year-old girl, and her 10-month-old baby who she was cradling in her arms as she ran away from the killers. The massacre has raised the specter that the brutal violence that plagues much of Mexico, including the killing of children and family members by drug cartels, has arrived in the U.S. The killing occurred in the small city of Goshen, about a 30-minute drive southeast of Fresno on highway 99."
https://public.substack.com/p/drug-decriminalization-behind-terrifying
Yet, this lasted about 30 seconds in the news cycle. Don’t want to attract attention to what Democrat policy is doing to destroy this country.
Inkslinger
01-25-23, 06:12
Is it the decriminalization of drugs or the close proximity of Mexico and cartels? The article mentions the Netherlands. Is it provable that their lack of violence is because of no open air drug markets or no large violent drug cartels?
Averageman
01-25-23, 07:01
Is it the decriminalization of drugs or the close proximity of Mexico and cartels? The article mentions the Netherlands. Is it provable that their lack of violence is because of no open air drug markets or no large violent drug cartels?
This article is BS.
“We don't know what it is yet,” said reporter Ioan Grillo, a journalist who has covered the Mexican drug cartels for 20 years. "I'd be surprised if the cartels were directly doing it because the Sinaloa cartel doesn’t want to bring all the heat on their people in the area."
This could more likely be "Home Grown" and made to look Cartel to scare the locals.
Yet, this lasted about 30 seconds in the news cycle. Don’t want to attract attention to what Democrat policy is doing to destroy this country.
Yep. It would be like airing a special on the shitbag homeless junkies that litter the Liberal city streets.
But those damned menthol cigs are gonna kill you.
Coal Dragger
01-25-23, 09:21
Why is it surprising that a state largely governed by Mexicans for Mexicans, is turning into Mexico?
Averageman
01-25-23, 09:32
Why is it surprising that a state largely governed by Mexicans for Mexicans, is turning into Mexico?
This !
If you want to shut down the competition simply do the most violent crime possible to make a fake point. It's some wanna be Cartel idiots riding their rep.
If I'm right, their lives aren't worth a plugged nickle now.
StainlessSteelRat
01-25-23, 09:44
I grew up in the vast farmlands of the San Joaquin, this stuff has been going on there since I can recall. Same story, different year.
There's nadda for cause and effect of decriminalization with "Terrifying Cartel-Style Killings In California" and the article is clickbait fail that was a wasted read.
We all know CA is FUBAR, and how their approach/policies to criminals, illigals, guns, etc, etc etc and their specific approach to decriminalization may be a factor too.
Fact remains as long as there's a hodgepodge of different states with different approaches, vs a WAY overdue to change in fed drug status and approach to the (failed by any metric one wishes to apply...) war on drugs, we will continue to see varying levels of success/failures on drug decriminalization and drug cartels shifting their approach.
For example, we know the decriminalization of weed by so many states has cut deep into cartel profits, so they shifted to making, transporting, and selling something far more dangerous, to ride on the opioid mess we created: fentanyl.
It's really not rocket science and if we only had history and prescience to look to as to how useless and damaging Prohibition is. Oh wait...
Averageman
01-25-23, 10:04
A big part of this is caused by California's political greed.
So how much is marijuana taxed in California?
https://www.kcrw.com/news/shows/kcrw-features/this-week-in-weed-cannabis-taxes-la
So if you tax something at 38% to decriminialize something, you've just shot yourself in the Butt. Someone's going to the black market to get around that 38% tax.
A big part of this is caused by California's political greed.
So how much is marijuana taxed in California?
https://www.kcrw.com/news/shows/kcrw-features/this-week-in-weed-cannabis-taxes-la
So if you tax something at 38% to decriminialize something, you've just shot yourself in the Butt. Someone's going to the black market to get around that 38% tax.
The entire idea of legalization and the gov and or private industry being involved is, just like booze, they can produce and sell it far cheaper and will win out in a free market competition. If you don't achieve that, and the illegal source is still less $ (cuz you're a greedy moron, etc who does not understand basic econ 101), then the illegal sources will remain.
Leave it to CA to F that up. Speaking of dummies who can't figure that out, there's a large black market for cigarettes in Canada smuggled from the US. Canada's taxes are so high, it's cheaper to buy black market smuggled in:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thunder-bay/contraband-cigarettes-1.5995075
For example, we know the decriminalization of weed by so many states has cut deep into cartel profits, so they shifted to...
You think the cartels are not involved in the domestic growing and trafficking of pot?
They use slave laborers to work the farms in my area.
Before growing pot was legal here they would do it out on public lands.
Oregon is that decriminalized paradise you want, pot, hard drugs, we even just legalized growing shrooms. But somehow I still can’t buy Sudafed without a Rx when I get the flu.
Come check us out, bring a tent, camp wherever you want, just watch out for the needles.
You think the cartels are not involved in the domestic growing and trafficking of pot?
They use slave laborers to work the farms in my area.
Before growing pot was legal here they would do it out on public lands.
Oregon is that decriminalized paradise you want, pot, hard drugs, we even just legalized growing shrooms. But somehow I still can’t buy Sudafed without a Rx when I get the flu.
Come check us out, bring a tent, camp wherever you want, just watch out for the needles.
Same thing with alcohol through the centuries. .Gov swings for the fence with taxation which makes off the books production worth the risk along with all that involves.
Oregon Department of Revenue : Marijuana : Businesses : State of Oregon
https://www.oregon.gov/dor/programs/businesses/pages/marijuana.aspx#:~:text=Retailers%20licensed%20by%20the%20Oregon,3%20percent%20for%20Oregon%20localities.
"Licensed retailers
Retailers licensed by the Oregon Liquor and Cannabis Commission (OLCC) are required to charge a retail sales tax of 17 percent for all recreational marijuana sold. In some cases, retailers must also charge customers an additional 3 percent for Oregon localities."
Averageman
01-25-23, 17:21
Same thing with alcohol through the centuries. .Gov swings for the fence with taxation which makes off the books production worth the risk along with all that involves.
Oregon Department of Revenue : Marijuana : Businesses : State of Oregon
https://www.oregon.gov/dor/programs/businesses/pages/marijuana.aspx#:~:text=Retailers%20licensed%20by%20the%20Oregon,3%20percent%20for%20Oregon%20localities.
"Licensed retailers
Retailers licensed by the Oregon Liquor and Cannabis Commission (OLCC) are required to charge a retail sales tax of 17 percent for all recreational marijuana sold. In some cases, retailers must also charge customers an additional 3 percent for Oregon localities."
Here's the trick, when the State adds 17% tax, then the municiplaities add in a 17% tax, well, then we end up with issues.
I've got amature backwoods distillers on both side of my family, when you make a quality product, it doesn't really matter. During Prohibition my Grandmother sold Brandy to a local Doctor who could buy as much Brandy as he wanted at the Pharmacy, he preffered Miss Sis's Brandy.
You think the cartels are not involved in the domestic growing and trafficking of pot?
They use slave laborers to work the farms in my area.
Before growing pot was legal here they would do it out on public lands.
Oregon is that decriminalized paradise you want, pot, hard drugs, we even just legalized growing shrooms. But somehow I still can’t buy Sudafed without a Rx when I get the flu.
Come check us out, bring a tent, camp wherever you want, just watch out for the needles.
Oregon has no state sales tax yet taxes marijuana at 17%. Of course there is going to be a market for black market weed there.
Averageman
01-25-23, 17:39
Oregon has no state sales tax yet taxes marijuana at 17%. Of course there is going to be a market for black market weed there.
There is always going to be a "Black Market", but when the State and Municiplaties start 17% at State and 17% at the municiplaity then it goes haywire.
There is always going to be a "Black Market", but when the State and Municiplaties start 17% at State and 17% at the municiplaity then it goes haywire.
Coupled with the fact that the cartels control most of the street sales and a good chunk of the legal sales. They can't lose.
By that logic Oregon should also be awash in bootleg liquor. I’ve never seen any or heard of any outside of hobbyists.
https://taxfoundation.org/state-distilled-spirits-taxes-2021/
That’s on top of the Federal tax.
Potheads, and their apologists are generally full of shit. I was a lot more agnostic about pot before I was lied to, and the whole thing was thrown wide open with no plan for any enforcement of basic regulations.
“We should treat marijuana like alcohol!”
…
“Well, except for taxing it…”
…
“And all that licensing and regulation on the manufacturers…”
…
“Or rules that it can only be sold in specific, regulated stores…”
I don’t think the scale is well known or understood outside of the area.
https://www.mailtribune.com/top-stories/2022/01/22/pot-busts-in-southern-oregon-exceed-2-7-billion/
https://www.mailtribune.com/top-stories/2021/09/02/illegal-pot-fuels-narco-slavery-in-rogue-valley/
You think the cartels are not involved in the domestic growing and trafficking of pot?
They use slave laborers to work the farms in my area.
Before growing pot was legal here they would do it out on public lands.
Oregon is that decriminalized paradise you want, pot, hard drugs, we even just legalized growing shrooms. But somehow I still can’t buy Sudafed without a Rx when I get the flu.
Come check us out, bring a tent, camp wherever you want, just watch out for the needles.
Where did I say that? What I know is LE and those with an agenda to perpetuate the (failed by any metric) war on drugs will claim cartel involvement when it's likley not, and what actual % involved, I don't know. It's also not relevant to my main points made.
By that logic Oregon should also be awash in bootleg liquor. I’ve never seen any or heard of any outside of hobbyists.
https://taxfoundation.org/state-distilled-spirits-taxes-2021/
That’s on top of the Federal tax.
Potheads, and their apologists are generally full of shit. I was a lot more agnostic about pot before I was lied to, and the whole thing was thrown wide open with no plan for any enforcement of basic regulations.
“We should treat marijuana like alcohol!”
…
“Well, except for taxing it…”
…
“And all that licensing and regulation on the manufacturers…”
…
“Or rules that it can only be sold in specific, regulated stores…”
I don’t think the scale is well known or understood outside of the area.
https://www.mailtribune.com/top-stories/2022/01/22/pot-busts-in-southern-oregon-exceed-2-7-billion/
https://www.mailtribune.com/top-stories/2021/09/02/illegal-pot-fuels-narco-slavery-in-rogue-valley/
Excellent post ^
By that logic Oregon should also be awash in bootleg liquor. I’ve never seen any or heard of any outside of hobbyists.
https://taxfoundation.org/state-distilled-spirits-taxes-2021/
That’s on top of the Federal tax.
Potheads, and their apologists are generally full of shit. I was a lot more agnostic about pot before I was lied to, and the whole thing was thrown wide open with no plan for any enforcement of basic regulations.
“We should treat marijuana like alcohol!”
…
“Well, except for taxing it…”
…
“And all that licensing and regulation on the manufacturers…”
…
“Or rules that it can only be sold in specific, regulated stores…”
I don’t think the scale is well known or understood outside of the area.
https://www.mailtribune.com/top-stories/2022/01/22/pot-busts-in-southern-oregon-exceed-2-7-billion/
https://www.mailtribune.com/top-stories/2021/09/02/illegal-pot-fuels-narco-slavery-in-rogue-valley/
Nothing in the above counters anything I and others wrote. Again, state by state vs fed (see additional in #12) is one issue that must be addressed, and the issue of how the state approaches it. The example of Canada again proves that fact, period.
Let us return the absolute realities of basic econ and human behavior. I don't know the answers to these Qs as I do for CA: Is it less $ to purchase bootleg booze in OR vs legal sources? Is it less or $ to purchase weed legal or illegal?
While not the only issue, driver, etc to be sure, it's the essential driver as to which generates the $, and end of the day, econ 101: Supply and demand and greed always wins.
By that logic Oregon should also be awash in bootleg liquor. I’ve never seen any or heard of any outside of hobbyists.
https://taxfoundation.org/state-distilled-spirits-taxes-2021/
That’s on top of the Federal tax.
Potheads, and their apologists are generally full of shit. I was a lot more agnostic about pot before I was lied to, and the whole thing was thrown wide open with no plan for any enforcement of basic regulations.
“We should treat marijuana like alcohol!”
…
“Well, except for taxing it…”
…
“And all that licensing and regulation on the manufacturers…”
…
“Or rules that it can only be sold in specific, regulated stores…”
I don’t think the scale is well known or understood outside of the area.
https://www.mailtribune.com/top-stories/2022/01/22/pot-busts-in-southern-oregon-exceed-2-7-billion/
https://www.mailtribune.com/top-stories/2021/09/02/illegal-pot-fuels-narco-slavery-in-rogue-valley/
Isn't Oregon a state that has at least one huge liquor store right at the state line with Washington because Washington's tax on alcohol is so high?
Almost everything is cheaper in Oregon for people in Washington near the border, OR doesn’t have any sales tax. I live on the other side of the state, and our liquor taxes are so high it’s cheaper to pay the CA tax and their sales tax.
Why is it surprising that a state largely governed by Mexicans for Mexicans, is turning into Mexico?
mexican on mexican crime
What I know is LE and those with an agenda to perpetuate the (failed by any metric) war on drugs will claim cartel involvement when it's likley not, and what actual % involved, I don't know.
Nope. You cannot box me in with the false binary of “failed war on drugs” or no regulation at all. I’m specifically talking about the near total failure of any regulation or enforcement that came with the legalization of growing.
You know what keeps Beam from selling untaxed liquor out the back door? Regulations and enforcement.
Feds are well known to take down stills, they are almost completely hands off marijuana enforcement.
The part of looking at this from a purely economic perspective, that you conveniently skipped over, is that the illegal method must make enough MORE to offset the perceived RISK of getting caught. Thus the probability and severity of getting caught are significant economic factors.
Nope. You cannot box me in with the false binary of “failed war on drugs” or no regulation at all. I’m specifically talking about the near total failure of any regulation or enforcement that came with the legalization of growing.
You know what keeps Beam from selling untaxed liquor out the back door? Regulations and enforcement.
Feds are well known to take down stills, they are almost completely hands off marijuana enforcement.
The part of looking at this from a purely economic perspective, that you conveniently skipped over, is that the illegal method must make enough MORE to offset the perceived RISK of getting caught. Thus the probability and severity of getting caught are significant economic factors.
And you literally don't realize you confirmed my points here. Two, focusing on the one part you feel makes a point, and removing the rest, is not a good look in terms of intellectual honesty. Laws/policy/regs vs enforcement there of, are two different issues and don't disprove nor alter anything I said.
The $ is always the main driver. That does not = there are not other factors involved, as I indicated and you mention above.
Averageman
01-27-23, 12:45
Nope. You cannot box me in with the false binary of “failed war on drugs” or no regulation at all. I’m specifically talking about the near total failure of any regulation or enforcement that came with the legalization of growing.
You know what keeps Beam from selling untaxed liquor out the back door? Regulations and enforcement.
Feds are well known to take down stills, they are almost completely hands off marijuana enforcement.
One of the reasons they didn't understand that legalizing weed would have this effect is that none of our elected officals know a damned thing about business.
No one thought for a moment that if they passed these laws and then had a State and local tax totalling 34% that no one would bootleg Weed?
No Politicans saw the money and jumped on it like Crack Ho's.
Alcohol has a hand in glove relationship with the regulations they work under. They are not onerous to them because they wrote the law and paid the cash necassary for a good working relationship with the Government. The same Government who they handed the Law to and they kindly passed for them.
Actually when it comes to stills we could combine our efforts build a still and run 100 gallons at your house, then pack up the still and make a 100 gallons at my house then head over to Will's house, and well you can see where this is going.
The thing about distilling alcohol fopr the most part is that it comes out tasting like fire and brimstone and sometimes it will blind or kill you.
So there you go, Jim Beam doesn't sell Whiskey out the back door because they helped write their own Laws. You buy Jim Beam because it's a better tastin and safer product than you can make at home.
…
State and local tax totalling 34% ...
I don’t know where you guys are coming up with this. Oregon tax is 17% and is at sale. Local tax is limited to 3% more. We don’t have any sales tax to go onto that either, so it’s about twice the tax % I would pay on basketball if went to CA to buy.
Compared to other sin taxed items it isn’t high.
The problem is how legalization was implemented, before the rules or anyone to enforce them was put in place. It took several years for the local sheriff to be able to even check if a grow location had a license.
If there are no rules that require the number of plants being grown is kept, or nobody ever inspects to check how many are grown, nobody has any idea how much of the crop went into the legal system and how much went into the back of a u-haul.
Alcohol is taxed upfront, has regulations and inspections that make diversion easier to catch, and that disincentivizes Beam from selling out the back door.
Averageman
01-27-23, 23:05
I don’t know where you guys are coming up with this. Oregon tax is 17% and is at sale. Local tax is limited to 3% more. We don’t have any sales tax to go onto that either, so it’s about twice the tax % I would pay on basketball if went to CA to buy.
Compared to other sin taxed items it isn’t high.
The problem is how legalization was implemented, before the rules or anyone to enforce them was put in place. It took several years for the local sheriff to be able to even check if a grow location had a license.
If there are no rules that require the number of plants being grown is kept, or nobody ever inspects to check how many are grown, nobody has any idea how much of the crop went into the legal system and how much went into the back of a u-haul.
Alcohol is taxed upfront, has regulations and inspections that make diversion easier to catch, and that disincentivizes Beam from selling out the back door.
It started in California as a way to stabilize their State and local economies from the cost of the Socialism they've imposed.
You might want to check that out a little closer, because there is a sin tax here and it is done at the Stae and local in Ca.
The State in California takes 17%, localities bump that up another 17%, if your localities aren't charging more that's totally out of line with the way this was set up to work.
This whole legalization thing was supposed to be a cash cow for the localities and it has been, but it has also bred an underground market.
Now, the rules of economics take hold and the prices of dispencery weed is collapsing because of the tax.
People figured out they were paying way to much, so prices drop legally and there goes the State and Local revenue.
And these Ken and Barbie looking City Counsel Members can't figure out that they've shot themselves in their own behinds?
All of this was brought about because;
The Federal Government is too fractured to properly operate.
The State and Local Government leaders got greedy and overly taxed the growers and sellers.
People being people will find a way to get what they want, legal or bootleg, just works that way.
People like being Outlaws and that thirty plants in your backyard will mean a nice Christmas and a Vacation for your family.
Have you checked the price of licencing and property tax for agricultural puposes?
If this was an honest business everyone would be in on it. So if it's legal in your local area, well everyones an Outlaw then aren't they?
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