View Full Version : Heads up Memphis and all of Tennessee, this is gonna be bad!
Tyre Nichols’ arrest video set for public release on Friday, according to Tennessee Sheriff’s Association
https://www.newschannel5.com/news/tyre-nichols-arrest-video-set-for-public-release-on-friday-according-to-tennessee-sheriffs-association
At the request of Shelby County TN. Sheriff Floyd Bonner, Jr. I send this correspondence. Sheriff Bonner in consultation with Memphis PD Chief Cerelyn “CJ” Davis, request to notify our nations sheriffs via NSA, of the upcoming timeline. It is anticipated the videos from the use of force will be released publicly on Friday January 27, 2023 in the afternoon hours.
Due to the nature of the video’s contents it is believed it may spark responses outside of the traditional protest. There is a public safety risk potential to communities and peace officers expanding outside of the Shelby County (Memphis) TN. area.
Yeah this might be bad if they are alerting all Tennessee cop shops to look out for “ responses outside of the traditional protest.” And “ a public safety risk potential to communities and peace officers expanding outside of the Shelby County (Memphis) TN. area.”
So heads up fellow Tennesseans and those in surrounding areas could get dangerous this weekend.
Averageman
01-25-23, 17:29
I really hope they handle this right and kick some ass this time.
Releasing the video to the public doesn't seem like the responsible thing to do.
The family has seen it, does anyone else need to?
I'd try to wait until after the investigation and trial.
Releasing the video to the public doesn't seem like the responsible thing to do.
The family has seen it, does anyone else need to?
I'd try to wait until after the investigation and trial.
They need to taint that jury pool.
Thank goodness I will be home from a business trip....
Straight Shooter
01-25-23, 18:11
You know- been needing to pull a trigger..look forward to whatever they want to do.
That said..literally NOTHING will happen my AO..sadly.
Id say Memphis PD is as woke if not more than any...but this AINT "up north" and our Governor wont take a whole lot of shit before acting.
Why release it on a Friday afternoon of all times?!?! Not a great weekend to go to Central BBQ. Y’all keep that shit on your side of the state line.
WillieThom
01-25-23, 18:49
You know- been needing to pull a trigger..look forward to whatever they want to do.
That said..literally NOTHING will happen my AO..sadly.
Id say Memphis PD is as woke if not more than any...but this AINT "up north" and our Governor wont take a whole lot of shit before acting.
Sadly, it’s some idiotic shit that you think it’s so awful that no bad shit is gonna happen in your AO. Really wish it would, for your sake, so you can smoke check you a bunch of fools.
Loudest in the room, weakest in the room, yadda yadda.. shut up. Your saying dumb shit.
Straight Shooter
01-25-23, 19:35
removed
GENTLEMEN, YES YOU TWO, PLEASE CALM DOWN. NO MORE WARNING.
Dang, this thread went off the rails in the first turn.
I guess at least they are warning folks rather than just getting "sensationalism" on the news as fast as possible.
Police chief warns Memphis not to react violently after body cam footage release
https://www.foxnews.com/us/tyre-nichols-video-police-chief-warns-memphis-violently-body-cam-footage-release
Memphis Police Chief Cerelyn Davis gave an address Wednesday evening and called Nichols’ death "heinous, reckless and inhumane," cautioning people not to react violently after seeing the footage.
"This is not just a professional failing. This is a failing of basic humanity towards another individual," Davis said, saying the five officers and others who were involved in his death "failed our community, and they failed the Nichols family. That is beyond regrettable."
"In the vein of transparency, when the video is released in the coming days, you will see this for yourselves," she added. "I expect you to feel what the Nichols family feels. I expect you to feel outraged by the disregard for basic human rights as our police officers have taken an oath to do the opposite of what transpired on the video."
For a community of people seemingly terrified of being murdered by the police for absolutely no reason, they sure like to flee from traffic stops and resist arrest.
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For a community of people seemingly terrified of being murdered by the police for absolutely no reason, they sure like to flee from traffic stops and resist arrest.
Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk
I think these particular cops were plain clothes in unmarked vehicles, so…
The video will be interesting.
MA2_Navy_Veteran
01-26-23, 11:08
[insert popcorn-eating emote here]
Munch-munch-munch... lol.. Munch-munch-munch...
[/popcorn-eating emote]
MA2
Looks like those cops are being indicted today.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/26/us/tyre-nichols-memphis-thursday/index.html
Story just got weird...
Two Memphis firefighters placed on leave over Tyre Nichols traffic stop
https://news.yahoo.com/tyre-nichols-live-family-bodycam-110916998.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9kdWNrZHVja2dvLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAHODD8aykMf82sdt1ZmfdmD1IkcmmEtK3KitMsq0XRKPYy-dIOuvPxopMyaahhKSdUwbYZXbpF4FaNbOR4urScwG8D2oaeoqKUbm8p05c7laGMqhD4HNAeXitl1ana3zUSoJe-ko8CnK1KcpC0K2pvN3LNifezwBk1c0pzjNQI1q
Two Memphis firefighters are now under investigation over their involvement in the initial care of Tyre Nichols following his fateful 7 January traffic stop.
The firefighters have been “relieved of duty” pending the outcome of the internal probe, department spokesperson Qwanesha Ward announced Monday.
Ms Ward declined to elaborate on whether the firefighters were suspended or dismissed, according to the Memphis Commercial Appeal.
I know it's probably differences in jurisdictions but it's funny to contrast these folks not being able to help but release the video, (on a Friday afternoon no less) and the folks with the Pelosi video in CA that are doing everything they can to not release their video.
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They will throw everyone under the bus to appease the animals in the hope they don't riot...but won't do anything to actually stop the riots.
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https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1190/6472/products/OIJOIJOIJ_8a1c30cb-05d1-4aed-b7c1-5a2b69618b73_648x.jpg?v=1508637926
john armond
01-26-23, 17:56
When I saw the first article I noticed the chief had two different shoulder patches in the two pictures. One looked like a local patch here. Next article had an older picture with the patch I recognized, and I was correct. Durham PD in NC. Looks like she was in Durham for five years and now Memphis for two or less.
TBI Director says video of Nichol’s arrest “it’s absolutely appalling.”
https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/26/us/tyre-nichols-memphis-thursday/index.html
TBI Director was on the local TV earlier, said he’s seen the entire video and it’s hard to watch and absolutely appalling.
When I saw the first article I noticed the chief had two different shoulder patches in the two pictures. One looked like a local patch here. Next article had an older picture with the patch I recognized, and I was correct. Durham PD in NC. Looks like she was in Durham for five years and now Memphis for two or less.
She is one dumb bitch regardless. Not that long ago she had a handgun of hers stolen out of a car she was driving (not a police car) while she and some friends of hers went inside a local business. Why did she leave her damn gun in the car, in freaking Memphis??? If she was bound and determined to leave a handgun in her car - Why was it not secured from automobile smash and grab type crap that is common as hell here in Memphis?
Great example for the public that idiot is... :rolleyes:
I seriously doubt anything will come of this regardless of any stupid video. Blacks kill (or shoot without killing) blacks every day in Memphis and nobody gives a half a crap. Some days multiple black on black shootings, on occasion even black kids get caught up in it... You will never see a protest here because a black guy shot or killed a black kid. It does not happen (the protest over that).
Since the police that killed the dude were all black AND they have already been charged - This will end up a big nothingburger.
Not saying that some local 'youts' will not end up looting a local dollar store or two but if it does happen you can rest assured they were going to loot that place regardless and did not need any police shooting to set them off. That stuff happens here more than most likely want to believe and DEFINITELY more than most of the local media report in their newscasts.
We had a local radio guy that used to do a daily 'Memphis crime report' where he would highlight ALL of the previous days' shootings and serious robberies (stuff that none of the other local media would touch). Somebody shut his reporting of those facts down after several weeks. Not sure who it was that gave him the call to stop that shit but bigger than shit one day those 'daily crime reports' just suddenly stopped and he has not done that kind of detailed reporting ever since.
Was not at all uncommon to hear in those reports (when he was doing them) about multiple different shootings (many with fatalities) each day in different parts of Memphis. Were never any riots because of any of it...
Same radio host guy that did those reports back then is a part owner of an indoor shooting range in Memphis. He spends WAY too much time on his shows promoting that range but has never once mentioned how many times cars got / get broken into in its damn parking lot! (others talked about it! :) ) Big ass sign clearly saying the business is a SHOOTING RANGE so you would think that criminals would see that sign, think about the armed patrons there and steer clear of that particular parking lot right?
Nope. Welcome to Memphis! :)
john armond
01-27-23, 06:45
She is one dumb bitch regardless. Not that long ago she had a handgun of hers stolen out of a car she was driving (not a police car) while she and some friends of hers went inside a local business. Why did she leave her damn gun in the car, in freaking Memphis??? If she was bound and determined to leave a handgun in her car - Why was it not secured from automobile smash and grab type crap that is common as hell here in Memphis?
Great example for the public that idiot is... :rolleyes: :)
I didn’t know about the pistol, but she supposedly squashed a child sex abuse investigation that had something to do with a cop working under her when she was in Atlanta, so yeah, not the best example of law enforcement there.
john armond
01-27-23, 06:46
Deleted double tap.
I didn’t know about the pistol, but she supposedly squashed a child sex abuse investigation that had something to do with a cop working under her when she was in Atlanta, so yeah, not the best example of law enforcement there.
That there is a diversity hire and she checks almost all of the 'Memphis appropriate' boxes.
The mayor gives not a shit about the safety of the people actually trying to live / work in Memphis. If he did he would be POURING money into the police dept. Instead - That dumbass wants a freaking ferris wheel for downtown...
Not a joke. :(
TBI Director says video of Nichol’s arrest “it’s absolutely appalling.”
TBI Director was on the local TV earlier, said he’s seen the entire video and it’s hard to watch and absolutely appalling.
Lip service.
Why is the normal, day to day crime not 'appalling' to that bozo? Why is Memphis being what 1000 officers short of what they / we 'should' have (at bare minimum according to TPTB) for the population size not 'appalling' to him?
:confused:
Memphis is losing officers every day and at a much faster rate that they can even dream about replacing them thanks to the 'leadership' refusing to fully support AND fund them properly.
The 'Memphis' solution to the crime problem was 'lowering' everything. Lower the retirement benefits for existing officers (and all the future ones) and lower the recruiting standards for who is allowed to join the force...
Buddy of mine who works in Jackson TN just texted and said an army of troopers just passed thru headed to Memphis.
Yeah DG Memphis is in bad shape but it’s been that way for years. When I moved from Georgia to Tennessee I transferred my POST certs here and Memphis was one PD I looked into.
After talking to a few knowledgeable cops I quickly said foooooook that!
triggerjerk
01-27-23, 14:17
Fudd here. I haven't yet seen/heard why this escalated from "license and registration, please" to "damn, beating that guy to death was hard work". Wondering if we'll get that in the vid release. Not holding breath.... Anyone know?
MA2_Navy_Veteran
01-27-23, 14:33
Maybe it's just me (& my MA xp/bg), but when I look back upon the majority of "police-related" headlines over the last decade or so, it seems to me that perhaps the two biggest failures (at least on the policing side of things) has been firstly, a severe lack of De-Escalation in the use of force (& show of force) once compliance, capture, or custody has been achieved, but secondly, a basic lack of observance toward a suspects physical well-being while they are actually in police custody.
I know it sounds over-simplified, but I can't really think of any of those headlines (other than the active-shooter ones) that would still be headlines had the officers involved in those situations applied proper de-escalation & observance upon compliance, capture, or custody of the suspect.
MA2
triggerjerk
01-27-23, 15:11
Ok. I think I finally found my clue: he allegedly fled a traffic stop, and things went sideways. Even back in my naughty days, I knew that no good could come from trying elude or fight cops. Yes, I am lucky and proud to be alive and free at this (somewhat better behaved) stage of my life....
For a community of people seemingly terrified of being murdered by the police for absolutely no reason, they sure like to flee from traffic stops and resist arrest.
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Sounds like he might have been paying attention to how things go.
Memphis police: Tyre Nichols video shows ‘acts that defy humanity,’ no reckless driving evidence found – New York Daily News
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/ny-tyre-nichols-video-memphis-police-reckless-driving-20230127-b4hcrwkte5f5xhjolmm5a3kz7u-story.html
"Authorities have so far uncovered no evidence to substantiate allegations Nichols was driving recklessly before he was pulled over and confronted by officers on Jan. 7, according to Davis."
Ok. I think I finally found my clue: he allegedly fled a traffic stop, and things went sideways. Even back in my naughty days, I knew that no good could come from trying elude or fight cops. Yes, I am lucky and proud to be alive and free at this (somewhat better behaved) stage of my life....
Well if they were hassling him for no reason it would seem nothing good was chosen for him in advance.
Memphis police: Tyre Nichols video shows ‘acts that defy humanity,’ no reckless driving evidence found – New York Daily News
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/ny-tyre-nichols-video-memphis-police-reckless-driving-20230127-b4hcrwkte5f5xhjolmm5a3kz7u-story.html
"Authorities have so far uncovered no evidence to substantiate allegations Nichols was driving recklessly before he was pulled over and confronted by officers on Jan. 7, according to Davis."
Does it sounds like the democratic woke ass Memphis cops are begging the the lawless to burn down the city?
triggerjerk
01-27-23, 17:15
Maybe they knew each other and didn't like each other?
My read from the peanut gallery:
- If they were going to chase this guy down and give him a beatdown, they would have turned their body cams off.
- we've not seen video yet of the guy fleeing and running. But, unless those cops were just stupid I would expect that will come out later.
- Chris Rock's old video is right... The surest way to get a beat down or at least roughed up is to run from the police and then fight with them once they catch up with you.
My bet is that if this guy just pulled over with his interior light on and put his hands on the steering wheel like any of us would do at night that he would be alive today.
I do not understand the mindset
john armond
01-27-23, 18:38
https://www.audacy.com/krld/news/national/shocking-video-released-of-memphis-cops-beating-tyre-nichols?utm_campaign=www.audacy.com%252Fkrld&utm_content=1674864822&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_term=KRLD-AM
Videos released. I haven’t made it through them all yet, but the black cop that was involved in the initial stop would have been better off if he stayed with the suspect’s car.
My read from the peanut gallery:
- If they were going to chase this guy down and give him a beatdown, they would have turned their body cams off.
- we've not seen video yet of the guy fleeing and running. But, unless those cops were just stupid I would expect that will come out later.
- Chris Rock's old video is right... The surest way to get a beat down or at least roughed up is to run from the police and then fight with them once they catch up with you.
My bet is that if this guy just pulled over with his interior light on and put his hands on the steering wheel like any of us would do at night that he would be alive today.
I do not understand the mindset
Please do elaborate on the righteousness of the cops holding him on the ground while another cop kicks him in the head.
john armond
01-27-23, 19:25
And now in NYC and other areas antifa is putting out a call to arms. I have a screenshot from Fox of a list they put out of what to bring including rocks, pipes, kerosene and knives. Don’t know how to post it though. Dems can’t put that genie back in the bottle I guess. Or do they want to use them to help take down Biden like they did Trump?
ETA: Flyer is in this article:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11685421/Antifa-tells-protesters-BURN-braces-riots.html
Those cops need to go down HARD! Every one of them!!
Meanwhile we need to educate citizens exactly what LEO's job is.
99% of the time worst case scenario if your innocent is a few hours inconvenience. You'll be home for dinner! Even if you commited a crime you'll be back on the streets in a day or less!
I think some people think they're getting hauled off the prison when they pull you over. Relax! I'm an "unconventional looking dude" and have defused several stops when i was younger with good attitude and humor. I was put in the back of a prowler in Nashville for having CA plates (before I wised up and split in 2002) Cop knew he had me on something but not a thing....Said it was "official procedure" to cuff and lock motorists in the prowler when checking vehicle and license! Seriously he told me he pulled over every "hippie" from CA driving through Nashville! We shook hands at the end of it and I went on my way.
I have a buddy who "arms" his kids with copies of the Constitution in case they get pulled over! We all know LEO's LOVE to argue the fine points of Constitutional law during traffic stops! Those kids have been locked up more than once! :D
But these 5 man....How does that even happen in 2023! They should just toss them to the crowd.
WillieThom
01-27-23, 19:29
Please do elaborate on the righteousness of the cops holding him on the ground while another cop kicks him in the head.
Badges, bro… they have badges.
https://www.audacy.com/krld/news/national/shocking-video-released-of-memphis-cops-beating-tyre-nichols?utm_campaign=www.audacy.com%252Fkrld&utm_content=1674864822&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_term=KRLD-AM
Videos released. I have made it through them all yet, but the black cop that was involved in the initial stop would have been better off if he stayed with the suspect’s car.
Video number 2 is brutal and shows a lot of the incident from a light pole camera. A couple of officers are holding the guy up while another punches him in the head several times. Those “officers” are just thugs with badges.
Please do elaborate on the righteousness of the cops holding him on the ground while another cop kicks him in the head.I'm not defending their acts of rage. They will go to jail and likely be killed.
Just saying odds are they did not pull that guy over with intent to beat him or they'd have had body cam issues.
But also that if they guy had not run/fought it would have been a different outcome.
If someone has seen video to indicate that they targeted him and plan to beat him from the get-go please let us know
StainlessSteelRat
01-27-23, 19:52
This looks like something you would see in a banana republic or dystopian commie hellhole, not in America. Kids parents will likely end up owning the City of Memphis. And rightfully so, imo. If this is 'Protect and Serve,' I'll take care of myself, thanks. RIP young man.
I'm not defending their acts of rage. They will go to jail and likely be killed.
Just saying odds are they did not pull that guy over with intent to beat him or they'd have had body cam issues.
But also that if they guy had not run/fought it would have been a different outcome.
If someone has seen video to indicate that they targeted him and plan to beat him from the get-go please let us know
Oh yeah they are obviously swell guys unless someone does something that triggers them.
Those cops need to go down HARD! Every one of them!!
Meanwhile we need to educate citizens exactly what LEO's job is.
99% of the time worst case scenario if your innocent is a few hours inconvenience. You'll be home for dinner! Even if you commited a crime you'll be back on the streets in a day or less!
I think some people think they're getting hauled off the prison when they pull you over. Relax! I'm an "unconventional looking dude" and have defused several stops when i was younger with good attitude and humor. I was put in the back of a prowler in Nashville for having CA plates (before I wised up and split in 2002) Cop knew he had me on something but not a thing....Said it was "official procedure" to cuff and lock motorists in the prowler when checking vehicle and license! Seriously he told me he pulled over every "hippie" from CA driving through Nashville! We shook hands at the end of it and I went on my way.
I have a buddy who "arms" his kids with copies of the Constitution in case they get pulled over! We all know LEO's LOVE to argue the fine points of Constitutional law during traffic stops! Those kids have been locked up more than once! :D
But these 5 man....How does that even happen in 2023! They should just toss them to the crowd.
Considering what they did it seems likely if it wasn't this time it would have happened eventually.
How about ditching unlawful arrest as a thing and treating as kidnapping? Not a panacea, but that would likely reduce the problem.
This looks like something you would see in a banana republic or dystopian commie hellhole, not in America. Kids parents will likely end up owning the City of Memphis. And rightfully so, imo. If this is 'Protect and Serve,' I'll take care of myself, thanks. RIP young man.
If more American’s lived this truth… we wouldn’t have the police state that we have now… that’s how we can truly be free… people need to take ownership for their own safety (save some very limited circumstances)…gov/LE have grown obese with power and control.
hotbiggun42
01-27-23, 22:34
Our country has gone insane.
WillieThom
01-27-23, 23:09
But is anywhere on fire yet? That’s what I want to know… seriously.
Those “officers” are just thugs with badges.
From everything I've seen, I'd have to agree. And everyone is gonna get sucked into this thing. They are throwing the EMTs under the bus for not stopping it.
I also have to say, without knowing the entire run up to the initial stop, Nichols seemed mostly cooperative but understandably scared. The disparity of force was pretty significant. I'd like to see a compelling reason why 5 officers had to take him into custody. Those were some big guys and I'd think one of them could have done it and the result would have probably been a lot less drama.
I think the only reason Memphis isn't burning (yet) is because of the racial component of all the officers being black.
Local prison will be getting a new basketball team
WillieThom
01-28-23, 00:43
From everything I've seen, I'd have to agree. And everyone is gonna get sucked into this thing. They are throwing the EMTs under the bus for not stopping it.
I also have to say, without knowing the entire run up to the initial stop, Nichols seemed mostly cooperative but understandably scared. The disparity of force was pretty significant. I'd like to see a compelling reason why 5 officers had to take him into custody. Those were some big guys and I'd think one of them could have done it and the result would have probably been a lot less drama.
I think the only reason Memphis isn't burning (yet) is because of the racial component of all the officers being black.
Apparently Shelby Co. Sheriff is looking into two of his deputies who were also at the scene.
vicious_cb
01-28-23, 02:56
But is anywhere on fire yet? That’s what I want to know… seriously.
No, but alot of a Nikes are getting stolen in East Memphis at the local Hibbets!
Averageman
01-28-23, 08:16
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbmewKE0uOg
Donut Operator did a pretty good job with this one.
Why is it that the fattest Cops get the maddest when you make them run?
This spokesman for that community says that "allegedly" Tyre Nichols was having an affair with one of the officer's wife. And the traffic stop was "allegedly" a set up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmtJx88YvxI&t=364s
This spokesman for that community says that "allegedly" Tyre Nichols was having an affair with one of the officer's wife. And the traffic stop was "allegedly" a set up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmtJx88YvxI&t=364s
I was told he just had to comply to have avoided the festivities.
Apparently Shelby Co. Sheriff is looking into two of his deputies who were also at the scene.
They were enjoying the killing instead of stopping it.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11686803/Tennessee-sheriff-stands-two-deputies-orders-new-investigation-Tyre-Nichols-death.html
john armond
01-28-23, 09:20
Were they all hired around/after the defund police movement started? Looks like the longest serving one may have only had about four years on the job.
Were they all hired around/after the defund police movement started? Looks like the longest serving one may have only had about four years on the job.
What does "defund" actually mean? There were lots of cops and the lowest paid of the named 5 was making $45k+ per year.
https://www.actionnews5.com/2022/05/05/west-memphis-police-fire-will-get-pay-raise/
https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdtn/pr/memphis-and-shelby-county-receive-more-eleven-million-dollars-awards-support-efforts
Havent watched the whole video. Dont really care to really. But from what Ive seen these guys are going away for sure.
Agian, I didnt watch the whole thing but did Tyre assault any of the officers or was he just resisting arrest and running?
Ive arrested many many people over the years that have resisted arrest and tried to get away. Plain old wrestling and Jui Jitsu works really well. Punches and kicks only happen if the suspect is actively assaulting officers.
Havent watched the whole video. Dont really care to really. But from what Ive seen these guys are going away for sure.
Agian, I didnt watch the whole thing but did Tyre assault any of the officers or was he just resisting arrest and running?
Ive arrested many many people over the years that have resisted arrest and tried to get away. Plain old wrestling and Jui Jitsu works really well. Punches and kicks only happen if the suspect is actively assaulting officers.
So are you in the group that holds the person down to position them for the kick or the one that backs off and runs(guess waddles is more accurate) up to deliver the kick to the head?
ChattanoogaPhil
01-28-23, 09:45
Community police, policing their own. Long-time mantra for hiring minority officers to police minorities in order to gain trust, respect and create harmony between the police and community. How’s that been working?
Inkslinger
01-28-23, 10:07
When it comes to life in the inner cities, incidents like these are not surprising. In the terms of “the game”, both teams are recruiting from the same pool. The smart hood rats join the police.
El Vaquero
01-28-23, 10:13
So are you in the group that holds the person down to position them for the kick or the one that backs off and runs(guess waddles is more accurate) up to deliver the kick to the head?
Dude. What gives? Go to the gym or go workout some of your anger issues. Not sure how you interpreted his comment but his comment sure didn’t warrant that response.
StainlessSteelRat
01-28-23, 10:14
I obviously don't know what led up to this, nor what his history with the law was. Yes, he should have been more compliant; when 5 cops yank you outta ya vehicle and slam you on the ground, it's time to let the lawyers handle it. I didn't see any conceivable justification for the ensuing beat down he got, however.
So are you in the group that holds the person down to position them for the kick or the one that backs off and runs(guess waddles is more accurate) up to deliver the kick to the head?
How do you get to that from my comment?
How do you get to that from my comment?
Because that describes the kicking segment seen in the video from Memphis.
"Punches and kicks only happen if the suspect is actively assaulting officers."
Straight Shooter
01-28-23, 10:22
WHAT IF you think BOTH parties are guilty?
Why did he run & resist? Why did he try to grab an officers gun?
Why couldnt two of those big ass cops handle him?
Why DID they overreact- apparently? Was there a reason?
I aint pro-cop OR pro- thug. But if there were reasons- fine. if not- Hell is coming for them.
As for Memphis itself..whatever.
Dude. What gives? Go to the gym or go workout some of your anger issues. Not sure how you interpreted his comment but his comment sure didn’t warrant that response.
He stated when punches and kicks come in to play and I accurately described the kicking segment of the footage. He indicated it happens, not me.
Havent watched the whole video. Dont really care to really. But from what Ive seen these guys are going away for sure.
Agian, I didnt watch the whole thing but did Tyre assault any of the officers or was he just resisting arrest and running?
Ive arrested many many people over the years that have resisted arrest and tried to get away. Plain old wrestling and Jui Jitsu works really well. Punches and kicks only happen if the suspect is actively assaulting officers.
Honestly I think Tyre was piss scared from the get go, he tried to submit to the arrest but those guys quickly turned it into way more and Tyres fight or flight went into full blown Im going to be killed if I don’t run.
So he ran. At that point he wasn’t resisting he was fighting for his life and on some level I think he knew it.
WHAT IF you think BOTH parties are guilty?
Why did he run & resist? Why did he try to grab an officers gun?
Why couldnt two of those big ass cops handle him?
Why DID they overreact- apparently? Was there a reason?
I aint pro-cop OR pro- thug. But if there were reasons- fine. if not- Hell is coming for them.
As for Memphis itself..whatever.
What the police are saying is there was no reckless driving as the on scene crew claimed which is the assumption for why there are kidnapping charges.
As I have stated before, unlawful arrest needs to get nixed and just referred to as kidnapping and treated accordingly.
My assumption is that would reduce resisting and fleeing incidents by reducing bogus arrests in the first place and would actually add some meaning to fighting it in court claim.
john armond
01-28-23, 10:35
What does "defund" actually mean? There were lots of cops and the lowest paid of the named 5 was making $45k+ per year.
https://www.actionnews5.com/2022/05/05/west-memphis-police-fire-will-get-pay-raise/
https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdtn/pr/memphis-and-shelby-county-receive-more-eleven-million-dollars-awards-support-efforts
I wrote “defund the police movement.” It’s a movement that partly pushed to eliminate stigmatize and attack all law enforcement. Since that “movement” started people have been walking away from the job and recruitment has gone down to extremely low levels. Because of this departments are lowering their standards to replace officers. Lower standards means lower caliber officers. I stated it in either this or another thread that we will see “Miami in the 80s” coming to police departments across the country as a result (in large part) of this “movement.”
Straight Shooter
01-28-23, 10:36
Agree 100% on the unlawful arrest- definitely needs a stronger punishment.
I wrote “defund the police movement.” It’s a movement that partly pushed to eliminate stigmatize and attack all law enforcement. Since that “movement” started people have been walking away from the job and recruitment has gone down to extremely low levels. Because of this departments are lowering their standards to replace officers. Lower standards means lower caliber officers. I stated it in either this or another thread that we will see “Miami in the 80s” coming to police departments across the country as a result (in large part) of this “movement.”
There sure were a lot of alleged "eliminatees" on scene and the money seems to be there so gonna go with not applicable.
Both of those details are frequent feature of similar incidents that make the news.
john armond
01-28-23, 10:47
There sure were a lot of alleged "eliminatees" on scene and the money seems to be there so gonna go with not applicable.
Both of those details are frequent feature of similar incidents that make the news.
You really like to interpret writings into what you actually want them to say don’t you?
ChattanoogaPhil
01-28-23, 10:48
This spokesman for that community says that "allegedly" Tyre Nichols was having an affair with one of the officer's wife. And the traffic stop was "allegedly" a set up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmtJx88YvxI&t=364s
Well there ya go. Messing with another man’s wife is serious business. That said, very low-IQ to do a beatdown wearing a uniform and bodycam.
El Vaquero
01-28-23, 10:50
He stated when punches and kicks come in to play and I accurately described the kicking segment of the footage. He indicated it happens, not me.
He’s talking in general terms and you’re talking directly about the video. What he’s saying is when someone is actively assaulting (punching, kicking), the officer can punch and kick back. He asked if that’s what Tyre was doing.
Averageman
01-28-23, 10:53
Local prison will be getting a new basketball team
Five fat guys doesn't make a basketball team.
We've seen the beating, but we dont really have the story do we? I do believe there is a back story that we simply aren't seeing.
Just saying, causing five guys to go from 0-60 and then off the rails in to a beating usually there is a reason for that.
If you'll remember;
Just like kneeling on someone's neck, there's a back story to all of this that we just aren't seeing. Resisting arrest is a good way to die.
The physical conditioning has a good deal to the deterioration of the situation. If you have to tag out during an arrest because you're about to have heart attack, you don't have control of the situation. Cops need to be Linebackers, not Linemen.
He’s talking in general terms and you’re talking directly about the video.
He mentioned the incident at the start of his comment, the video pertains to the incident, and the video of the incident is chock full of kicking and punching.
Voodoochild
01-28-23, 11:00
Cops involved in this are going to have a bad time in prison when they get convicted. Talk about overuse of force. Anyone/Everyone involved in this is going for the ride one way or another.
El Vaquero
01-28-23, 11:05
He mentioned the incident at the start of his comment, the video pertains to the incident, and the video of the incident is chock full of kicking and punching.
You do you my man. Was simply trying to help you understand something you misinterpreted. But you do you.
Well there ya go. Messing with another man’s wife is serious business. That said, very low-IQ to do a beatdown wearing a uniform and bodycam.
If true, I know something did not add up about that event, and we were missing some essential aspect, and now we have it. It didn't make sense, and suspected they had some prior contacts, etc. Now, if true, it makes sense. However, I'm skeptical that's the reason.
So far, I the vids I have seen didn't show extreme levels of violence that should have lead to what he looked like in the hospital and death. I see some punches thrown, don't see any kicks, etc in vid I watched.
Gonna watch some others now. This is a 20 min vid, I don't see anything that would be viewed "extreme" outside UOF for that such a person, but punches to the face and head may not be approved SOP for a un-cooperative but not otherwise violent person. Maye some LEOs here can comment on that part.
Note at 13:24 of vid, they sit him up and he falls over and hits his head in a nasty way, and that may have caused the brain injury that killed him.
Maybe other body cams will show it. It is obvious he was resisting arrest, but 5 full grown men should have been able to physically restrain that skinny kid without beating him to death. They do say "he's on something" to indicate I assume an usual amount of resistance to their efforts to cuff him up.
Is yelling for your mom the new in thing with young men getting arrested? I have heard that now in various recent vids.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Obpwr4scXRM
He mentioned the incident at the start of his comment, the video pertains to the incident, and the video of the incident is chock full of kicking and punching.
Your bias is blinding you. Everything I wrote refutes what these guys did and shows it was way out of the norm for arresting "non cooperative" suspects.
I asked if Tyre had actually fought them because I hadn't read about that or observed it in the videos I watched. Like I said, strikes are used when a suspect is ACTIVELY assaulting an officer or otherwise an articulated threat.
Two weeks ago another officer and I tried to arrest an assault suspect who resisted arrest. We wrestled around on the ground in the Taco Bell dining room knocking over chairs and tables for a couple minutes. But no one threw a strike of any kind. Jui Jitsu and wrestling.
People run from the police. It's all part of the game. No need to get mad about it.
john armond
01-28-23, 11:49
Is yelling for your mom the new in thing with young men getting arrested? I have heard that now in various recent vids.
I remember something from one of the history classes I took in college that it was common for soldiers from WWII to call for their mothers if they were dying/severely injured, so no, probably not a new thing.
I remember something from one of the history classes I took in college that it was common for soldiers from WWII to call for their mothers if they were dying/severely injured, so no, probably not a new thing.
To the point he was within eyesight of his mother house and that’s probably where he was running to. So once the life slowly left his body that’s probably all he was thinking about.
He mentioned the incident at the start of his comment, the video pertains to the incident, and the video of the incident is chock full of kicking and punching.
Which vid is that? I have not seen a vid so far that I could see kicking, or anything that was way over the top excessive force that should be fatal. I saw some punches thrown after they try and try to cuff him and can't. Maybe other body cam vids will show someone kicking him in the head and such that could have lead to his death. Per #83 what looks to me to have happened is, he does fall over and hit is head on the concrete hard, and that may have been the fatal injury.
To add, if there was no reckless driving involved and they fabricated that for some reason, then it was an unlawful arrest, and everything following that is on the LEO's and they should pay the price.
If it does turn out it was revenge for kid banging someones wife, then again, no empathy for those LEOs and they are F'd.
However, if it happened as they claim, I didn't see anything in the vid I have see so far, that was them just beating on the kid for no reason, beyond trying to get him to comply, and the it looked to me like he hits his head when he falls over and was not the same after that. I can see them put on desk duty for investigation, followed by perhaps some losing their jobs for not following SOP for UOF (the strikes to his face while not being violent toward them but resisting arrest...) but the charges appear more about appeasing the anti LE public then reality. Unless I see another kid from another angle, those charges seem way beyond what happened.
Your bias is blinding you. Everything I wrote refutes what these guys did and shows it was way out of the norm for arresting "non cooperative" suspects.
I asked if Tyre had actually fought them because I hadn't read about that or observed it in the videos I watched. Like I said, strikes are used when a suspect is ACTIVELY assaulting an officer or otherwise an articulated threat.
Two weeks ago another officer and I tried to arrest an assault suspect who resisted arrest. We wrestled around on the ground in the Taco Bell dining room knocking over chairs and tables for a couple minutes. But no one threw a strike of any kind. Jui Jitsu and wrestling.
People run from the police. It's all part of the game. No need to get mad about it.
Is that SOP for the PD? How does that work? I have seen knees and strikes to the ribs and such to get those refusing to be cuffed up to cooperate, but not strikes to the head or face.
It is obvious he was resisting arrest, but 5 full grown men should have been able to physically restrain that skinny kid without beating him to death. ]
This is how we’re gonna quickly find ourselves in a country where certain people will be so scared of the cops the moment the blue lights come on it’s going straight to gunfire. Hell just look at the last few years where homeowners call cops reporting a burglar outside. The cops show up and start acting like burglars prowling around and see the homeowners inside with a gun then the shooting starts. Or a welfare check that ends up in a gunfight... because the cops didn’t knock and announce.
Tyres name gets added to a long and fast growing list of people ending up dead because of contact with a cop. Right or wrong I don’t think the country is going to take much more of this.
However, if it happened as they claim, I didn't see anything in the vid I have see so far, that was them just beating on the kid for no reason, beyond trying to get him to comply, and the it looked to me like he hits his head when he falls over and was not the same after that.
They literally stood him up and took turns beating on him in the pole camera video.... one cop with the baton tried or did land a few whacks on or near his head at one point.
EDIT: Here you go Will.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/28/us/tyre-nichols-beating-video-takeaways/index.html
The real beat down starts around the 2 minute mark
Which vid is that? I have not seen a vid so far that I could see kicking, or anything that was way over the top excessive force that should be fatal. I saw some punches thrown after they try and try to cuff him and can't. Maybe other body cam vids will show someone kicking him in the head and such that could have lead to his death. Per #83 what looks to me to have happened is, he does fall over and hit is head on the concrete hard, and that may have been the fatal injury.
To add, if there was no reckless driving involved and they fabricated that for some reason, then it was an unlawful arrest, and everything following that is on the LEO's and they should pay the price.
If it does turn out it was revenge for kid banging someones wife, then again, no empathy for those LEOs and they are F'd.
However, if it happened as they claim, I didn't see anything in the vid I have see so far, that was them just beating on the kid for no reason, beyond trying to get him to comply, and the it looked to me like he hits his head when he falls over and was not the same after that. I can see them put on desk duty for investigation, followed by perhaps some losing their jobs for not following SOP for UOF (the strikes to his face while not being violent toward them but resisting arrest...) but the charges appear more about appeasing the anti LE public then reality. Unless I see another kid from another angle, those charges seem way beyond what happened.
First few minutes on video #2 from. The pole camera shows the pin down and kicking.
https://vimeo.com/showcase/10146138
Your bias is blinding you. Everything I wrote refutes what these guys did and shows it was way out of the norm for arresting "non cooperative" suspects.
I asked if Tyre had actually fought them because I hadn't read about that or observed it in the videos I watched. Like I said, strikes are used when a suspect is ACTIVELY assaulting an officer or otherwise an articulated threat.
Two weeks ago another officer and I tried to arrest an assault suspect who resisted arrest. We wrestled around on the ground in the Taco Bell dining room knocking over chairs and tables for a couple minutes. But no one threw a strike of any kind. Jui Jitsu and wrestling.
People run from the police. It's all part of the game. No need to get mad about it.
No bias, just aware that there was plenty of kicking and punching in the video of the incident you were commenting on.
You might want to watch more of it because mentioning self defense as being even remotely related to the LE on scene seems odd at best and like circling the wagons as often happens with these incidents.
https://vimeo.com/showcase/10146138
I remember something from one of the history classes I took in college that it was common for soldiers from WWII to call for their mothers if they were dying/severely injured, so no, probably not a new thing.
Maybe coincidence, but I have heard more young men calling for their mom in vids in the last few months then any time I can remember.
To the point he was within eyesight of his mother house and that’s probably where he was running to. So once the life slowly left his body that’s probably all he was thinking about.
I can't say what I'd say if I'd been tussling around with 5 cops trying to cuff me, but I do know yelling for my mommy to save me would not be it. If within hearing distance, more like yelling to get my lawyer in transit asap. I have to wonder if this is revealing aspect of current culture.
I'll will add i was returned in cuffs to my apartment in Brooklyn back in the day (70s) and my mother was only interested in hearing the LEOs version, thanked him profusely for bringing me home vs lock up (different times!) and lit into me way worse then the cop did, who was not gentile with me at all. Had a black eye the next day, to which I'd earned it being an A hole and my mother didn't give a damn about once she heard about how I'd run my mouth at him.
They literally stood him up and took turns beating on him in the pole camera video.... one cop with the baton tried or did land a few whacks on or near his head at one point.
EDIT: Here you go Will.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/28/us/tyre-nichols-beating-video-takeaways/index.html
The real beat down starts around the 2 minute mark
I say a few kicks to the head as they he continues to resist (not warranted!)
Is that SOP for the PD? How does that work? I have seen knees and strikes to the ribs and such to get those refusing to be cuffed up to cooperate, but not strikes to the head or face.
16 years ago they definitely taught strikes to the limbs and body to gain compliance during arrest for resisting. That has been walked back a lot since then. For someone that is passively resisting arrest (going limp, holding hands under their body, etc) it is a no go.
As a personal rule I dont throw strikes unless there is a violence on their end. Its doesnt look good no matter how lawful it is. Same reason I ditched the baton nearly 15 years ago. I never used one in a fight but from what Ive seen it just looks bad.
No bias, just aware that there was plenty of kicking and punching in the video of the incident you were commenting on.
You might want to watch more of it because mentioning self defense as being even remotely related to the LE on scene seems odd at best and like circling the wagons as often happens with these incidents.
https://vimeo.com/showcase/10146138
Jesus Christ dude.... You think this response is good but it just proves the point that you your bias is badly showing. No one is circling the wagons here. I said strikes are only used for suspects actively assaulting you and nowhere have I seen or read about him assaulting them.
Which vid is that? I have not seen a vid so far that I could see kicking, or anything that was way over the top excessive force that should be fatal. I saw some punches thrown after they try and try to cuff him and can't. Maybe other body cam vids will show someone kicking him in the head and such that could have lead to his death. Per #83 what looks to me to have happened is, he does fall over and hit is head on the concrete hard, and that may have been the fatal injury.
To add, if there was no reckless driving involved and they fabricated that for some reason, then it was an unlawful arrest, and everything following that is on the LEO's and they should pay the price.
If it does turn out it was revenge for kid banging someones wife, then again, no empathy for those LEOs and they are F'd.
However, if it happened as they claim, I didn't see anything in the vid I have see so far, that was them just beating on the kid for no reason, beyond trying to get him to comply, and the it looked to me like he hits his head when he falls over and was not the same after that. I can see them put on desk duty for investigation, followed by perhaps some losing their jobs for not following SOP for UOF (the strikes to his face while not being violent toward them but resisting arrest...) but the charges appear more about appeasing the anti LE public then reality. Unless I see another kid from another angle, those charges seem way beyond what happened.
Have you seen the video from the light pole camera? That more clearly shows the assault better than the badge cams.
I say a few kicks to the head as they he continues to resist (not warranted!)
Added info: Clearly some excessive and unnecessary strikes taking place. I'm still thinking the way he hit his head on the pavement looked and sounded bad. Buddy of mine who was highly experienced LEO who worked gang units, drugs, SWAT, etc commented:
"Aggressive Cops are chosen for units like that. They had him and then he got away. That's a 'Loss' They were pissed. He made them chase him again, then he wouldn't cooperate. They lost it!"
Unless there's other factors in play, like the rumor of kid sleeping with wife, etc, if it's as we see on it's face of it, they ruined their own lives by their responses and the kid would be alive and well if he'd complied. Lose lose for all parties involved.
El Vaquero
01-28-23, 12:50
Head kicks are deadly force and only authorized under deadly force conditions. There’s nothing in the video where I saw which made it a deadly force situation.
The video was disturbing and shameful. I was in high school during Rodney King and grew up outside of LA. This incident is worse than Rodney King. Running and passive resistance no way warrants the the beating they gave. Even the way they stopped him is suspect. They boxed him in a pretty much assaulted his vehicle for reckless driving?
This was not an example of police needing more training, or encountering a violent suspect high on drugs. It was plain and simple a gang type jumping and beating.
I think what C-grunt is saying, which I agree with, is in most cases where someone resists in can be ended quickly without strikes but simply with good technique. Three officers was more than enough for Tyre. One officer ties up the legs, one officer on each arm and it’s done. But I think from the beginning they wanted to beat him. Sad deal.
16 years ago they definitely taught strikes to the limbs and body to gain compliance during arrest for resisting. That has been walked back a lot since then. For someone that is passively resisting arrest (going limp, holding hands under their body, etc) it is a no go.
As a personal rule I dont throw strikes unless there is a violence on their end. Its doesnt look good no matter how lawful it is. Same reason I ditched the baton nearly 15 years ago. I never used one in a fight but from what Ive seen it just looks bad.
All that you are saying is reason #102012 I could not to that job. That you have to worry about what "looks bad" to people who don't understand chit about it, vs what's most effective for your safety, is not for me. Sounds like you are able to make it work at least.
Head kicks are deadly force and only authorized under deadly force conditions. There’s nothing in the video where I saw which made it a deadly force situation.
The video was disturbing and shameful. I was in high school during Rodney King and grew up outside of LA. This incident is worse than Rodney King. Running and passive resistance no way warrants the the beating they gave. Even the way they stopped him is suspect. They boxed him in a pretty much assaulted his vehicle for reckless driving?
This was not an example of police needing more training, or encountering a violent suspect high on drugs. It was plain and simple a gang type jumping and beating.
I think what C-grunt is saying, which I agree with, is in most cases where someone resists in can be ended quickly without strikes but simply with good technique. Three officers was more than enough for Tyre. One officer ties up the legs, one officer on each arm and it’s done. But I think from the beginning they wanted to beat him. Sad deal.
Thank you. Maybe Im having a stroke but I thought my responses were pretty clear. I agree with everything else you said.
All that you are saying is reason #102012 I could not to that job. That you have to worry about what "looks bad" to people who don't understand chit about it, vs what's most effective for your safety, is not for me. Sounds like you are able to make it work at least.
There is definitely a political aspect to the job. To paraphrase Bill Blowers the job is done by standards set by society. Laws and rules change over time.
Jesus Christ dude.... You think this response is good but it just proves the point that you your bias is badly showing. No one is circling the wagons here. I said strikes are only used for suspects actively assaulting you and nowhere have I seen or read about him assaulting them.
I am taking your word that you are not.
I can assure you other venues very much are featuring circling the wagons on this incident saying it was an entirely justified use of force.
There is definitely a political aspect to the job. To paraphrase Bill Blowers the job is done by standards set by society. Laws and rules change over time.
I could not to that job, and I'm just happy someone is still willing/able to do it. Worked with and or known many LEOs, and they are far from perfect, but will always give LE the benefits of the doubt over any thug, criminal, etc. I admit my bias without apologies. The thin blue line is not a metaphor and I don't want to deal with the goblins myself.
So, they ruined their lives by "losing it" as my buddy put it, and the kid would still be alive had his mom or others in his life taught him running from police and resisting arrest once they catch up to you is a bad idea, he'd still be alive.
That's the reality of it.
El Vaquero
01-28-23, 13:43
I am taking your word that you are not.
I can assure you other venues very much are featuring circling the wagons on this incident saying it was an entirely justified use of force.
Can you post a link? I’m very curious to see who, and how, anyone with any experience or common sense can be justifying the use of force. Are these reputable professionals saying it’s justified or just idiots posting nonsense on the internet?
Can you post a link? I’m very curious to see who, and how, anyone with any experience or common sense can be justifying the use of force. Are these reputable professionals saying it’s justified or just idiots posting nonsense on the internet?
The biggy would be arfcom and I think linking to them is a no no, the site is ridiculed, and so on, but the cheerleaders appear to be vetted as current/former LE.
A large percentage of the ones not directly cheering it on are merely claiming it is the "defund" claim which is refuted by looking at Memphis's funding numbers and the large number of cops on scene who appeared to be enjoying the show.
I could not to that job, and I'm just happy someone is still willing/able to do it. Worked with and or known many LEOs, and they are far from perfect, but will always give LE the benefits of the doubt over any thug, criminal, etc. I admit my bias without apologies. The thin blue line is not a metaphor and I don't want to deal with the goblins myself.
So, they ruined their lives by "losing it" as my buddy put it, and the kid would still be alive had his mom or others in his life taught him running from police and resisting arrest once they catch up to you is a bad idea, he'd still be alive.
That's the reality of it.
Let's not forget the reason they gave for stopping him appears to be a lie when defending their honor.
Let's not forget the reason they gave for stopping him appears to be a lie when defending their honor.
Yes, that's a key aspect to all of it. Not seen evidence either way yet. If the stop itself was indeed BS, then they made their own very bad day and kid would still be alive. I will be interested to see the evidence on that aspect of the event.
El Vaquero
01-28-23, 14:26
The biggy would be arfcom and I think linking to them is a no no, the site is ridiculed, and so on, but the cheerleaders appear to be vetted as current/former LE.
A large percentage of the ones not directly cheering it on are merely claiming it is the "defund" claim which is refuted by looking at Memphis's funding numbers and the large number of cops on scene who appeared to be enjoying the show.
I don’t know if posting a link to arfcom is a no no or not and I don’t really care. But there’s your problem right there if you’re getting your information from a website that is ridiculed from folks who “appear” to be vetted. You may as well be getting your news from the Enquirer or CNN, from folks who claim to be journalists and reporters. Stop going over there and believing that nonsense.
I don’t know if posting a link to arfcom is a no no or not and I don’t really care. But there’s your problem right there if you’re getting your information from a website that is ridiculed from folks who “appear” to be vetted. You may as well be getting your news from the Enquirer or CNN, from folks who claim to be journalists and reporters. Stop going over there and believing that nonsense.
You left out the numerous uniformed LE on scene in the video enjoying the show which is consistent with the opinions being expressed by those appearing to be vetted LE on arfcom.
Other LE on scene supporting bad actors(and being filmed in the process) is not unique to this incident. It doesn't mean "all" are duds, but it isn't an anomaly either.
John Harris, President of Tennessee Firearms Association and Attorney just posted this.
MEMPHIS POLICE CONDUCT AND THE LAW OF SELF-DEFENSE
https://tennesseefirearms.com/2023/01/memphis-police-conduct-and-the-law-of-self-defense/
titsonritz
01-28-23, 14:49
Rule #1 - cardio.
john armond
01-28-23, 14:52
The biggy would be arfcom and I think linking to them is a no no, the site is ridiculed, and so on, but the cheerleaders appear to be vetted as current/former LE.
A large percentage of the ones not directly cheering it on are merely claiming it is the "defund" claim which is refuted by looking at Memphis's funding numbers and the large number of cops on scene who appeared to be enjoying the show.
Pretty sure that last remark was directed at me. If you are saying I am indirectly “cheering it on” I will state again that you really tend to read whatever you want to hear from other peoples statements as you are sorely mistaken. It’s pretty simple. If you lower standards to fill a shortage, you will end up with a lower standard of officer. Of course you seem to be saying that 45k a year and several officers on shift is proof that the defund the police movement had no effect on anything. My agency is over 75 uniformed officers short. That not including non-uniformed. Because of this officers are having to work multiple mandated double shifts a week just to fill coverage. This is in addition to the posts that have been removed or have a reduced number of people working in them due to lack of officers. Virtually no one is applying. Our last rookie class had one officer in it…one. The standards for hiring now are incredibly lowered and there is talk of going lower just to get people in the door. The majority of new officers that we are getting show the lowered standards. That is a direct result of the defund the police movement whether you choose to believe it or not.
Pretty sure that last remark was directed at me. If you are saying I am indirectly “cheering it on” I will state again that you really tend to read whatever you want to hear from other peoples statements as you are sorely mistaken. It’s pretty simple. If you lower standards to fill a shortage, you will end up with a lower standard of officer. Of course you seem to be saying that 45k a year and several officers on shift is proof that the defund the police movement had no effect on anything. My agency is over 75 uniformed officers short. That not including non-uniformed. Because of this officers are having to work multiple mandated double shifts a week just to fill coverage. This is in addition to the posts that have been removed or have a reduced number of people working in them due to lack of officers. Virtually no one is applying. Our last rookie class had one officer in it…one. The standards for hiring now are incredibly lowered and there is talk of going lower just to get people in the door. The majority of new officers show the lowered standards. That is a direct result of the defund the police movement whether you choose to believe it or not.
Part of it no doubt, but less people want to be LE today in large part to the lack of support for them in various cities run by loons, everyone hoping to get their 15 seconds of fame by having their phones ready to record at all times, the media, public and their own leaders, using the court of public opinion and pressure to throw LE under bus before the facts in investigations complete, and various POS thugs made martyrs while a dead LEO gets a mention. Wrestling with crazy assholes trying to bite your ear off to see some kid who lives wit his parents pontificate how he'd have done it better, and it goes, all part of their plan to undermine LE so the nation goes to chit. And add to all that, the % of people can't pass the background check to be LE.
Under those conditions, who hell would want that job?
That part in bold, I feel like even some here not seeing it's part of the overall plan to ruin this county and they're falling for it.
Pretty sure that last remark was directed at me. If you are saying I am indirectly “cheering it on” I will state again that you really tend to read whatever you want to hear from other peoples statements as you are sorely mistaken. It’s pretty simple. If you lower standards to fill a shortage, you will end up with a lower standard of officer. Of course you seem to be saying that 45k a year and several officers on shift is proof that the defund the police movement had no effect on anything. My agency is over 75 uniformed officers short. That not including non-uniformed. Because of this officers are having to work multiple mandated double shifts a week just to fill coverage. This is in addition to the posts that have been removed or have a reduced number of people working in them due to lack of officers. Virtually no one is applying. Our last rookie class had one officer in it…one. The standards for hiring now are incredibly lowered and there is talk of going lower just to get people in the door. The majority of new officers that we are getting show the lowered standards. That is a direct result of the defund the police movement whether you choose to believe it or not.
I also posted info on Memphis PD funding earlier so it was not just my noticing the number of personnel in the video.
https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdtn/pr/memphis-and-shelby-county-receive-more-eleven-million-dollars-awards-support-efforts
https://www.actionnews5.com/2022/05/05/west-memphis-police-fire-will-get-pay-raise/
And here is the info on pay to preemptively avoid claims I am making that up.
https://www.memphistn.gov/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/City-of-Memphis-Employee-Salaries-August-2021.pdf
So how much did the officers involved in this need to be making before overtime and how many need to be hired on to prevent this kind of thing from happening?
El Vaquero
01-28-23, 15:11
You left out the numerous uniformed LE on scene in the video enjoying the show which is consistent with the opinions being expressed by those appearing to be vetted LE on arfcom.
Other LE on scene supporting bad actors(and being filmed in the process) is not unique to this incident. It doesn't mean "all" are duds, but it isn't an anomaly either.
I didn’t leave that out. You did. You mentioned other venues that were circling the wagons. I asked you link them.
Now you want to discuss the LE who watched on scene and did nothing. Yeah sure ok. What do you want to discuss? You’re saying those on arfcom who are vetted have consistent opinions with those who were on scene? Ok. If you say so.
jsbhike - No one that I’ve read on this thread here is saying the officers were in the right or trying to defend them. (Though I’m sure you’ll beg to differ). Again, anyone with common sense and half a brain can see it for what it is. Murder.
I think your energy is more wisely spent and utilized at a venue like arfcom. Maybe you can spread some knowledge on the folks who are circling the wagons over there. Go over there and tell them none of the professionals over at M4Carbine.net feel that way!
john armond
01-28-23, 15:18
Part of it no doubt, but less people want to be LE today in large part to the lack of support for them in various cities run by loons, everyone hoping to get their 15 seconds of fame by having their phones ready to record at all times, the media, public and their own leaders, using the court of public opinion and pressure to throw LE under bus before the facts in investigations complete, and various POS thugs made martyrs while a dead LEO gets a mention. Wrestling with crazy assholes trying to bite your ear off to see some kid who lives wit his parents pontificate how he'd have done it better, and it goes, all part of their plan to undermine LE so the nation goes to chit. And add to all that, the % of people can't pass the background check to be LE.
Under those conditions, who hell would want that job?
Funny you should say that. I had part of my ear bit off by a suspect I nabbed years ago.
As for your first part, I think it goes hand-in- hand with the movement. The movement pushed and a lot of the people running the cities grabbed hold which equated to a lack of support. A lot of people running the cities also pushed for the movement. Some people ran for office on the movement’s platform. Kind of a chicken/egg thing.
That being said, the cops in those videos should have not been on the job in the first place.
John Harris, President of Tennessee Firearms Association and Attorney just posted this.
MEMPHIS POLICE CONDUCT AND THE LAW OF SELF-DEFENSE
https://tennesseefirearms.com/2023/01/memphis-police-conduct-and-the-law-of-self-defense/
Few years before I would have been old enough to pay attention, but based on TN LE agency/lobbying groups opposition to concealed carry permits, constitutional carry, and other steps of decriminalizing a right, I bet the law referenced went over like a fart in a diving helmet with lots of blood in the streets claims.
john armond
01-28-23, 15:25
I also posted info on Memphis PD funding earlier so it was not just my noticing the number of personnel in the video.
https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdtn/pr/memphis-and-shelby-county-receive-more-eleven-million-dollars-awards-support-efforts
https://www.actionnews5.com/2022/05/05/west-memphis-police-fire-will-get-pay-raise/
And here is the info on pay to preemptively avoid claims I am making that up.
https://www.memphistn.gov/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/City-of-Memphis-Employee-Salaries-August-2021.pdf
So how much did the officers involved in this need to be making before overtime and how many need to be hired on to prevent this kind of thing from happening?
You either don’t or don’t want to get it. It’s not how many you can hire, it’s who you can hire. If all you get are crap applicants all you will end up with is crap officers.
And BTW, the average salary in Memphis TN is $62,443 per year as of December 2022 according to Ziprecruter. $45,747 is in the 25th percentile.
I didn’t leave that out. You did. You mentioned other venues that were circling the wagons. I asked you link them.
Now you want to discuss the LE who watched on scene and did nothing. Yeah sure ok. What do you want to discuss? You’re saying those on arfcom who are vetted have consistent opinions with those who were on scene? Ok. If you say so.
jsbhike - No one that I’ve read on this thread here is saying the officers were in the right or trying to defend them. (Though I’m sure you’ll beg to differ). Again, anyone with common sense and half a brain can see it for what it is. Murder.
I think your energy is more wisely spent and utilized at a venue like arfcom. Maybe you can spread some knowledge on the folks who are circling the wagons over there. Go over there and tell them none of the professionals over at M4Carbine.net feel that way!
Except we can go back to read where I mentioned Arfcom current and retired LE posting views that would be consistent with the LE on scene and then reiterated it since you only pooh poohed the arfcom cops statements part.
No one defending? What is the purpose of claiming he wouldn't have suffered the fate we can now watch had he complied?
You either don’t or don’t want to get it. It’s not how many you can hire, it’s who you can hire. If all you get are crap applicants all you will end up with is crap officers.
And BTW, the average salary in Memphis TN is $62,443 per year as of December 2022 according to Ziprecruter. $45,747 is in the 25th percentile.
I thought they couldn't hire due to not having the money for it?
I recall at least 1 of the 5 being in the mid $60k range
https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/-in-Memphis,TN
So why hire them if not qualified? I kinda doubt the people responsible for hiring would knowingly go buy and consume rotted food themselves so why would they buy it and force someone else to eat it?
john armond
01-28-23, 15:44
I thought they couldn't hire due to not having the money for it?
I recall at least 1 of the 5 being in the mid $60k range
https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/-in-Memphis,TN
So why hire them if not qualified? I kinda doubt the people responsible for hiring would knowingly go buy and consume rotted food themselves so why would they buy it and force someone else to eat it?
It seems you don’t want to try to understand. You do you.
It seems you don’t want to try to understand. You do you.
Defund.
Fund indicates money. De indicates removed.
Info is available that Memphis keeps getting money for their LE which torpedoes the whole defund claim.
john armond
01-28-23, 16:19
Defund.
Fund indicates money. De indicates removed.
Info is available that Memphis keeps getting money for their LE which torpedoes the whole defund claim.
My actual quote: “I wrote “defund the police movement.” It’s a movement that partly pushed to eliminate stigmatize and attack all law enforcement.”
The “movement” means different things to different people as can be seen in the various quotes in this article.
https://journalistsresource.org/criminal-justice/defund-the-police/
You have multiple people on this site trying to explain things to you. You don’t seem to want to listen but instead put your spin on their words.
I don’t remember anyone on this site agreeing with what these officers did.
Memphis police 'permanently deactivate' SCORPION Unit
https://www.foxnews.com/us/tyre-nichols-death-memphis-police-permanently-deactivate-scorpion-unit
"Today, Memphis Police Officers assigned to the SCORPION Unit (Street Crimes Operations to Restore Peace in Our Neighborhoods) met with Chief Cerelyn 'C.J.' Davis to discuss the path forward for the department and the community in the aftermath of the tragic death of Tyre Nichols," Memphis police said in a statement. "In the process of listening intently to the family of Tyre Nichols, community leaders, and the uninvolved officers who have done quality work in their assignments, it is in the best interest of all to permanently deactivate the SCORPION Unit."
Wonder if the folks in IA are burning the midnight oil combing over their piles of cases and complaints right now...
My actual quote: “I wrote “defund the police movement.” It’s a movement that partly pushed to eliminate stigmatize and attack all law enforcement.”
The “movement” means different things to different people as can be seen in the various quotes in this article.
https://journalistsresource.org/criminal-justice/defund-the-police/
You have multiple people on this site trying to explain things to you. You don’t seem to want to listen but instead put your spin on their words.
I don’t remember anyone on this site agreeing with what these officers did.
Some variation of "if he had just complied this wouldn't have happened" really appears to be victim blaming like saying a car thief stole a car because the owner didn't lock the doors.
The defund movement is heavily influenced by various flavors of communism. Communism typically has some societal symptoms that manifest as shortages.
Based on accounts of the last hundred years I recall reading about victims of communism commenting on shortages of things like adequate clothing, adequate housing, heat, food, and hope. I don't recall anyone getting back to their apartment from spending a day in the breadline and lamenting not seeing enough LE along their route.
Lack of police appears to be a top fear in all of this for many and history indicates fear not. If there is a dip in numbers that is likely only temporary with blindingly bright days ahead.
Memphis police 'permanently deactivate' SCORPION Unit
https://www.foxnews.com/us/tyre-nichols-death-memphis-police-permanently-deactivate-scorpion-unit
Wonder if the folks in IA are burning the midnight oil combing over their piles of cases and complaints right now...
Took me a second, I hadn't heard of anything in Iowa.
Kinda doubt that was their first rodeo too.
“SCORPION” seems like a terrible name for an organization to “Restore Peace”
The biggy would be arfcom and I think linking to them is a no no, the site is ridiculed, and so on, but the cheerleaders appear to be vetted as current/former LE.
A large percentage of the ones not directly cheering it on are merely claiming it is the "defund" claim which is refuted by looking at Memphis's funding numbers and the large number of cops on scene who appeared to be enjoying the show.
Arfcom general discussion is worse than AIDS. There’s an interesting phenomenon where people go on a groupthink circlejerk where back to back, dudes are like “insulin is $1000!” And then a dude will come by with a link showing, “no, it isn’t”, but they ignore him and go on with the tar and feathers. Page after page. If you read those threads, you’ll see its clear that no one reads before posting. Not the OP, not the thread, not books, nothing.
The threads about guns aren’t as bad. I’m a member there now, since discussion about shooting guns has gotten so thin here.
The topic at hand is ****ed. Dudes should be thrown to the mob (figuratively; US justice system has no such mechanism). This is straight up gang shit, by colors wearing homeboys.
“SCORPION” seems like a terrible name for an organization to “Restore Peace”
Arfcom general discussion is worse than AIDS. There’s an interesting phenomenon where people go on a groupthink circlejerk where back to back, dudes are like “insulin is $1000!” And then a dude will come by with a link showing, “no, it isn’t”, but they ignore him and go on with the tar and feathers. Page after page. If you read those threads, you’ll see its clear that no one reads before posting. Not the OP, not the thread, not books, nothing.
The threads about guns aren’t as bad. I’m a member there now, since discussion about shooting guns has gotten so thin here.
The topic at hand is ****ed. Dudes should be thrown to the mob (figuratively; US justice system has no such mechanism). This is straight up gang shit, by colors wearing homeboys.
Not going to disagree with that at all. Not all of the cheerleaders for this(and other incidents*) there are LE, but quite a few are. Not a fan of either piece of the problem.
*another was the Botham Jean shot by Amber Guyger incident and the LE opinions there were in line with the acts taken by LE at the scene and LE testifying in court that what she did was right. Obviously that isn't the view of every cop in the country, but any claim that arfcommers claiming to be cops aren't because they were voicing support for Guyger to be able to murder Jean without consequence is ridiculous.
Coal Dragger
01-28-23, 17:47
I’m just patiently waiting for Memphis to be set on fire. If the whole city burns it might do a coupe of hundred dollars worth of damage.
Defund.
Fund indicates money. De indicates removed.
Info is available that Memphis keeps getting money for their LE which torpedoes the whole defund claim.
$ and humans to do the job are two different issues. They are down 20% of actual officers they had, have many working over time, and don't have what they need to patrol the streets, according to them. Whether it's de funding efforts or others I outlined, people don't want to be LE these days, and the quality of those becoming LE (according to the various LEO know and other sources) is poor.
So far, I have not seen any LE circling the wagons on that one, but one did comment "Hire garbage standard cops, this is what you get."
john armond
01-28-23, 18:13
Deleted.
$ and humans to do the job are two different issues. They are down 20% of actual officers they had, have many working over time, and don't have what they need to patrol the streets, according to them. Whether it's de funding efforts or others I outlined, people don't want to be LE these days, and the quality of those becoming LE (according to the various LEO know and other sources) is poor.
So far, I have not seen any LE circling the wagons on that one, but one did comment "Hire garbage standard cops, this is what you get."
Enough officers to do "what"?
If the "what" is catching a perpetrator that damaged a person or their property with the potential benefit of that acting as a deterrent against similar crimes against people and property then great.
If the "what" is harassing someone who hasn't damaged a person or their property(anti 2A laws are an excellent example), well then screw that.
As far as the lack of personneI that may be true some places, but I keep hearing that claim and not long after get treated to video of a whole crowd of "not enough" showing up for stuff like this.
ChattanoogaPhil
01-28-23, 18:55
“Is yelling for your mom the new in thing with young men getting arrested? I have heard that now in various recent vids.”
Perhaps the 29y/o deceased was crying for mama because he reportedly lived with mama. The deceased was reportedly a skateboarder but mama reportedly wanted him to shoot hoops and offered to buy him Air Jordans. Reportedly an “aspiring photographer” with his smartphone. Uh hu…
Whether the deceased got a beatdown for resisting or messing with another man’s wife… who knows. But they both can result in physical repercussion. Best to avoid.
“Is yelling for your mom the new in thing with young men getting arrested? I have heard that now in various recent vids.”
Perhaps the 29y/o deceased was crying for mama because he reportedly lived with mama. The deceased was reportedly a skateboarder but mama reportedly wanted him to shoot hoops and offered to buy him Air Jordans. Reportedly an “aspiring photographer” with his smartphone. Uh hu…
Whether the deceased got a beatdown for resisting or messing with another man’s wife… who knows. But they both can result in physical repercussion. Best to avoid.
Wow you made amateur photography sound a lot more sinister than this article mentioning that he worked for FedEx.
https://news.yahoo.com/tyre-nichols-loved-family-photographing-150000558.html
Straight Shooter
01-28-23, 19:09
Back in the nineties and 2000's a couple of companies I drove OTR for had terminals in just the WORST part of Memphis. And of course I delivered in & around the city..like all other cities.
What. A. SHITHOLE. But, from what others have told me its almost Somalia like in places now. Was VERY dangerous. As I matured and more time as a driver, I started finally getting my balls about me and refused to go in early or late to some of these places, not only in Memphis but all over.
But there were a couple of truck stops in south Memphis that you really took your life in your own hands every time you went there. Couldnt walk from the truck to the store without getting hit up or approached for some old bullshit reason.
I aint sorry or afraid to say this, but the "black community" is gonna have to step up and work from within to improve itself. Almost all these places are almost all 100% black. They are FERAL. To me, you, each other, anyone walking or driving by. Lets admit the problem,move on & accept TRUTH.
They wanna burn their own neighborhoods, there own BLACK OWNED business's...FINE. They oughta have to drive miles & miles for even a smoke or gas or groceries. To see how fortified the stores & gas stations are now is RIDICULOUS. The amount of money, pain & suffering, costs of the judicial system and incarceration these animal cost is unreal. All this would very quickly end just by ADMITTING what every single person knows is the problem, but are afraid to say because theyll be called some name like "racist" that now to me is totally meaningless.
There are ENDLESS videos where blacks,especially young ones, are getting arrested and they actually think they arent supposed to be laid hands on, or allowed to fight back without ANY resistance from the cop. The mentality is animalistic almost.
I couldnt handle that shit all day every day as a cop. I can see a cop one day just getting fed up with that shit and losing their mind in the right situation.
And way before any says something like "yeah but Ive seen white people act like that too"....true..but for every white that does it Ill show you 20 times more that were black. Having worked DECADES side by side many many young blacks, who Ive sat down and had serious talks and asked many questions...what Ive said is 100% true and what Ive been told numerous times. "Shouldnt arrest them, dont touch them if you do, resist arrest like crazy, aint gotta listen to no police, just on & on.
This mentality, until reversed, is why we will continue to have the same old problems in the same old places by the same old people.
Now chime in and tell me how "raaacist" I am. Hint beforehand: I. DONT. CARE.
That was hard to watch. Those five officers fvcked themselves. Pretty sure all of them are going to prison. I can't imagine Memphis PD training is that bad but apparently those five retained absolutely nothing of what they were taught. They should have been able to quite easily control the subject and place him in cuffs if that was what they wanted to do. It appeared that they wanted to give the guy a beating from the very beginning.
As far as the lack of personneI that may be true some places, but I keep hearing that claim and not long after get treated to video of a whole crowd of "not enough" showing up for stuff like this.
When I was in these types of units were the very reason we on patrol were always short handed. They were constantly pulling the more aggressive officers to staff these things. And a lot of those aggressive cops were also good on calls and wrote quality reports, had good courtroom time and generally were good cops.
Whenever we’d find ourselves at staffing levels for each shift some captain or major would find a reason to create another unit or add to an existing one and deplete patrol. We never could count on these guys to be consistent for backup unless you put out something they wanted then they’d swarm the fuk out of you. Not because they wanted to back you up but because they wanted your stop or call for themselves. And they never put themselves out for calls they’d always check in on the radio 10-8 special detail and then never answer the radio.
Defund.
Fund indicates money. De indicates removed.
Info is available that Memphis keeps getting money for their LE which torpedoes the whole defund claim.
Are you aware of that time not too long ago when the city made big time changes to the police and fireman pension in their effort to 'save money' at the expense of those guys?
The actual paycheck they take home is only part of the total sum when you count those benefits that were taken away...
That is by definition 'DEFUNDING' the police and fire dept dude.
You have not a clue because you don't live live here and know jack about it other than what you see on google crap.
Straight Shooter
01-28-23, 19:37
Being scared to go there does NOT = having balls dude. :rolleyes:
Dummy- I meant I told dispatch I wasnt going in before it was safer. You dont know NEAR as much as you think you do.
DONT RESPOND TO MY POSTS AGAIN.
Buddy of mine who works in Jackson TN just texted and said an army of troopers just passed thru headed to Memphis.
Yeah DG Memphis is in bad shape but it’s been that way for years. When I moved from Georgia to Tennessee I transferred my POST certs here and Memphis was one PD I looked into.
After talking to a few knowledgeable cops I quickly said foooooook that!
Why do you suppose I take a pair of big ass Dobermans with me to work every day??? (and a high capacity firearm or two...) :rolleyes:
Funny story - We had a Sheriff deputy come by a while back to give someone some papers and goof ball walked right in without knocking or anything (there is NO 'welcome', come on in sign on our door or anywhere else - not at all a 'walk right in' sort of business). Fat bastard nearly pissed himself when he got about to the middle of the shop and the girls got up as they saw him! If I had been off in our other building next door and not right there at the time with the girls... He would have likely got chewed up. Learn to knock dumbass! :o
Voodoochild
01-28-23, 19:50
Being scared to go there does NOT = having balls dude. :rolleyes:
DG knock it off man. Stop trying to goad negative responses.
Dummy- I meant I told dispatch I wasnt going in before it was safer. You dont know NEAR as much as you think you do.
DONT RESPOND TO MY POSTS AGAIN.
You are too scared to come where I am at and do shit. It is in Memphis! :)
DG knock it off man. Stop trying to goad negative responses.
sorry dude
Are you aware of that time not too long ago when the city made big time changes to the police and fireman pension in their effort to 'save money' at the expense of those guys?
The actual paycheck they take home is only part of the total sum when you count those benefits that were taken away...
That is by definition 'DEFUNDING' the police and fire dept dude.
You have not a clue because you don't live live here and know jack about it other than what you see on google crap.
Reducing retirement and other benefits is not limited to Memphis PD and FD.
According to this, the recent hires got placed on the older system this past fall.
https://www.police1.com/police-jobs-and-careers/articles/memphis-officers-celebrate-reinstatement-of-1978-pension-plan-5VrFlqmnILjKpOgL/
I guess some of them were still celebrating.
When I was in these types of units were the very reason we on patrol were always short handed. They were constantly pulling the more aggressive officers to staff these things. And a lot of those aggressive cops were also good on calls and wrote quality reports, had good courtroom time and generally were good cops.
Whenever we’d find ourselves at staffing levels for each shift some captain or major would find a reason to create another unit or add to an existing one and deplete patrol. We never could count on these guys to be consistent for backup unless you put out something they wanted then they’d swarm the fuk out of you. Not because they wanted to back you up but because they wanted your stop or call for themselves. And they never put themselves out for calls they’d always check in on the radio 10-8 special detail and then never answer the radio.
Very similar experience with regards to various tac teams and other 'secret squirrel' squads.
Pretty sure that last remark was directed at me. If you are saying I am indirectly “cheering it on” I will state again that you really tend to read whatever you want to hear from other peoples statements as you are sorely mistaken. It’s pretty simple. If you lower standards to fill a shortage, you will end up with a lower standard of officer. Of course you seem to be saying that 45k a year and several officers on shift is proof that the defund the police movement had no effect on anything. My agency is over 75 uniformed officers short. That not including non-uniformed. Because of this officers are having to work multiple mandated double shifts a week just to fill coverage. This is in addition to the posts that have been removed or have a reduced number of people working in them due to lack of officers. Virtually no one is applying. Our last rookie class had one officer in it…one. The standards for hiring now are incredibly lowered and there is talk of going lower just to get people in the door. The majority of new officers that we are getting show the lowered standards. That is a direct result of the defund the police movement whether you choose to believe it or not.
THIS is Memphis police in a nut shell.
We have about 2k police and are about 1k SHORT. Soooo, we lower the standards so that more can be accepted but... Due to retirement and other normal attrition rates and such we still LOSE more officers every year than we gain from those that actually graduate the academy.
The ones we DO get to replace the older and more experienced officers are NOT near the same 'quality' and obviously not experienced.
Not to mention that the officers we DO have are not paid nearly enough for what they do... It amazes me that we pay so little to officers and still EXPECT them to do so much and take so many risks. Insane...
THIS is Memphis police in a nut shell.
We have about 2k police and are about 1k SHORT. Soooo, we lower the standards so that more can be accepted but... Due to retirement and other normal attrition rates and such we still LOSE more officers every year than we gain from those that actually graduate the academy.
The ones we DO get to replace the older and more experienced officers are NOT near the same 'quality' and obviously not experienced.
Same situation in every major city nationwide.
Reducing retirement and other benefits is not limited to Memphis PD and FD.
According to this, the recent hires got placed on the older system this past fall.
https://www.police1.com/police-jobs-and-careers/articles/memphis-officers-celebrate-reinstatement-of-1978-pension-plan-5VrFlqmnILjKpOgL/
I guess some of them were still celebrating.
They fought for years to get there... Seriously.
Freaking billboard ads, tv and radio commercials letting the public KNOW what was going on, etc.
The citizens overwhelmingly SUPPORTED it and the each time the city council would shoot it down.
We even had a freaking referendum on one of the recent ballots about paying them more that PASSED and guess what? The city council shot it down... (you read that right - the citizens voted to pay MORE in taxes so the Police could be better funded but the city council STILL refused to do so)
Because they are anti-police and hate the thought of actually paying them what they deserve.
They fought for years to get there... Seriously.
Freaking billboard ads, tv and radio commercials letting the public KNOW what was going on, etc.
The citizens overwhelmingly SUPPORTED it and the each time the city council would shoot it down.
We even had a freaking referendum on one of the recent ballots about paying them more that PASSED and guess what? The city council shot it down...
Because they are anti-police and hate the thought of actually paying them what they deserve.
Looks like that happened in July 2016 and was reversed Fall 2022. There are millions who will never get on a better earlier retirement system.
Wonder if the footage letting the public see what was going on will trigger another referendum?
Also, your initial mention of that didn't include the old retirement system being opened up to the recent hires and in fact made it sound like they were stuck on the less preferable new system.
Same situation in every major city nationwide.
Liberal cities perhaps.
None of the smaller (non liberal cities) around Memphis has these problems with a lack of officers.
Another way Memphis screws itself (and their officers) is with their residency requirements. Lots and lots of potential officers living just outside the city limits that 'could' join the force but noooo. They are required to live there in Memphis and pay those higher taxes.
The city council intentionally lowers their pool of possible resources with those residency requirements. LOTS of people like me don't mind working in Memphis but we darn sure don't want to actually LIVE there or own a home there. (not to mention having our kids stuck in that school system there)
titsonritz
01-28-23, 20:19
“SCORPION” seems like a terrible name for an organization to “Restore Peace”.
But it sounds cool and has a camouflage pattern with the same name.
Looks like that happened in July 2016 and was reversed Fall 2022. There are millions who will never get on a better earlier retirement system.
Wonder if the footage letting the public see what was going on will trigger another referendum?
Also, your initial mention of that didn't include the old retirement system being opened up to the recent hires and in fact made it sound like they were stuck on the less preferable new system.
What good is any referendum if the city is going to do what they want to regardless of what the citizens want and VOTE for?
(keep reading on the new vs old systems - you are not quite there yet in your understanding of ALL of the changes made)
What good is any referendum if the city is going to do what they want to regardless of what the citizens want and VOTE for?
Did the billboards, print ads, and radio/TV commercials mention incidents like this one or were those details obscured?
Liberal cities perhaps.
None of the smaller (non liberal cities) around Memphis has these problems with a lack of officers.
Another way Memphis screws itself (and their officers) is with their residency requirements. Lots and lots of potential officers living just outside the city limits that 'could' join the force but noooo. They are required to live there in Memphis and pay those higher taxes.
The city council intentionally lowers their pool of possible resources with those residency requirements. LOTS of people like me don't mind working in Memphis but we darn sure don't want to actually LIVE there or own a home there. (not to mention having our kids stuck in that school system there)
Most major cities are liberal and have been for quite some time. Officers leave large cities/departments in droves and go to work in those smaller cities. And yes, residency requirements are asinine. If Houston, as big as it is, had a residency requirement it would lose over half of the officers on the department.
Did the billboards, print ads, and radio/TV commercials mention incidents like this one or were those details obscured?
You seem to believe that Memphis in general is anti-police.
Question: What riots did we have today or last night? Any burning of buildings???
(none and no...)
And there won't be any because the vast majority here want MORE police and not less. Better quality police would be nice but when you are as short as we are....
Most major cities are liberal and have been for quite some time. Officers leave large cities/departments in droves and go to work in those smaller cities. And yes, residency requirements are asinine. If Houston, as big as it is, had a residency requirement it would lose over half of the officers on the department.
Which is exactly WHY the Memphis city council has that rule and refuses to budge on it...
You seem to believe that Memphis in general is anti-police.
Question: What riots did we have today or last night? Any burning of buildings???
(none and no...)
And there won't be any because the vast majority here want MORE police and not less. Better quality police would be nice but when you are as short as we are....
Seems like an odd thing to want to pay up front for considering the private sector in Memphis is well known for delivering an equivalent service with no reoccurring fees or contracts.
Averageman
01-28-23, 21:15
“Is yelling for your mom the new in thing with young men getting arrested? I have heard that now in various recent vids.”
Whether the deceased got a beatdown for resisting or messing with another man’s wife… who knows. But they both can result in physical repercussion. Best to avoid.
I've never heard a wounded guy call for his accountant, podatrist or even his Wife.
Mom is the overall winner in this catagory, I have heard someone call for his kids one time though.
Edit to add.
Beating up another Man for banging your old lady is a cuck move. Really, just grab your shi* and move out.
Edit to add.
Beating up another Man for banging your old lady is a cuck move. Really, just grab your shi* and move out.
Not buying any of that story until I see or read / hear some real evidence.
Internet garbage is what that is until then.
titsonritz
01-28-23, 23:38
Not buying any of that story until I see or read / hear some real evidence.
Internet garbage is what that is until then.
Allegedly.
Tyre Nichols skateboarding video
https://www.newsweek.com/tyre-nichols-skateboarding-memorial-video-viewed-more-19m-times-1777242
Memphis police 'permanently deactivate' SCORPION Unit
https://www.foxnews.com/us/tyre-nichols-death-memphis-police-permanently-deactivate-scorpion-unit
Wonder if the folks in IA are burning the midnight oil combing over their piles of cases and complaints right now...
Looks like that may be a thing.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/former-memphis-cop-charged-tyre-nichols-death-allegedly-beat-up-inmate-2015
Like crap companies, a PD is usually rotten from the top down. Diversity hiring has consequences:
Memphis Police Chief Cerelyn Davis fired from previous Atlanta job after botched sex crimes probe
The chief of police in Memphis in charge of the five officers who fatally beat and tasered motorist Tyre Nichols was fired from a previous law enforcement job after a botched probe.
Cerelyn “CJ” Davis became the first female police chief in Memphis’ history in 2021 and is currently in the international spotlight after five cops brutally beat Tyre Nichols.
She was fired from the Atlanta police department in 2008 for her alleged involvement in a sex crimes investigation into the husband of an Atlanta police sergeant, according to the Atlanta Journal Constitution.
Two detectives accused Davis of telling them not to investigate Terrill Marion Crane, who was married to sergeant Tonya Crane after the police department obtained photos of him with underage girls.
A federal grand jury later indicted Terrill Crane on child pornography. He pleaded guilty to one count of child pornography in 2009, the newspaper reported.
The indictment was issued after Atlanta police took no action in the case and a subsequent investigation by the city pointed to Davis as the reason. Davis was demoted from major to lieutenant before being fired from the force that she had joined in 2008.
Cont:
https://nypost.com/2023/01/28/memphis-police-chief-cerelyn-davis-fired-from-a-previous-job/
Like crap companies, a PD is usually rotten from the top down. Diversity hiring has consequences:
Memphis Police Chief Cerelyn Davis fired from previous Atlanta job after botched sex crimes probe
The chief of police in Memphis in charge of the five officers who fatally beat and tasered motorist Tyre Nichols was fired from a previous law enforcement job after a botched probe.
Cerelyn “CJ” Davis became the first female police chief in Memphis’ history in 2021 and is currently in the international spotlight after five cops brutally beat Tyre Nichols.
She was fired from the Atlanta police department in 2008 for her alleged involvement in a sex crimes investigation into the husband of an Atlanta police sergeant, according to the Atlanta Journal Constitution.
Two detectives accused Davis of telling them not to investigate Terrill Marion Crane, who was married to sergeant Tonya Crane after the police department obtained photos of him with underage girls.
A federal grand jury later indicted Terrill Crane on child pornography. He pleaded guilty to one count of child pornography in 2009, the newspaper reported.
The indictment was issued after Atlanta police took no action in the case and a subsequent investigation by the city pointed to Davis as the reason. Davis was demoted from major to lieutenant before being fired from the force that she had joined in 2008.
Cont:
https://nypost.com/2023/01/28/memphis-police-chief-cerelyn-davis-fired-from-a-previous-job/
Does the RICO Act exempt LE agencies by statute or is it just a professional courtesy thing?
Does the RICO Act exempt LE agencies by statute or is it just a professional courtesy thing?
No clue, but it's an interesting legal angle to apply.
Memphis Police Chief Cerelyn Davis fired from previous Atlanta job after botched sex crimes probe
Cerelyn “CJ” Davis became the first female police chief in Memphis’ history in 2021 and is currently in the international spotlight after five cops brutally beat Tyre Nichols.
She was fired from the Atlanta police department in 2008 for her alleged involvement in a sex crimes investigation into the husband of an Atlanta police sergeant, according to the Atlanta Journal Constitution.
Wow, that's upright outstanding record there :)
Averageman
01-29-23, 10:25
Not buying any of that story until I see or read / hear some real evidence.
Internet garbage is what that is until then.
I would agree.
titsonritz
01-29-23, 12:13
Like crap companies, a PD is usually rotten from the top down. Diversity hiring has consequences:
Memphis Police Chief Cerelyn Davis fired from previous Atlanta job after botched sex crimes probe
The chief of police in Memphis in charge of the five officers who fatally beat and tasered motorist Tyre Nichols was fired from a previous law enforcement job after a botched probe.
Cerelyn “CJ” Davis became the first female police chief in Memphis’ history in 2021 and is currently in the international spotlight after five cops brutally beat Tyre Nichols.
She was fired from the Atlanta police department in 2008 for her alleged involvement in a sex crimes investigation into the husband of an Atlanta police sergeant, according to the Atlanta Journal Constitution.
Two detectives accused Davis of telling them not to investigate Terrill Marion Crane, who was married to sergeant Tonya Crane after the police department obtained photos of him with underage girls.
A federal grand jury later indicted Terrill Crane on child pornography. He pleaded guilty to one count of child pornography in 2009, the newspaper reported.
The indictment was issued after Atlanta police took no action in the case and a subsequent investigation by the city pointed to Davis as the reason. Davis was demoted from major to lieutenant before being fired from the force that she had joined in 2008.
Cont:
https://nypost.com/2023/01/28/memphis-police-chief-cerelyn-davis-fired-from-a-previous-job/
Quite the list of accomplishments, she probably needs a raise in pay.
john armond
01-29-23, 12:31
Quite the list of accomplishments, she probably needs a raise in pay.
After the Atlanta gig she was hired to be the Durham PD chief in NC. She was here for a few years then went on to her latest position. I posted that earlier in this thread.
Lol might be worth buying stock in chemical spray companies because if this works usage will go through the roof.
https://nypost.com/2023/01/28/desmond-mills-jr-might-not-have-been-able-to-see-during-tyre-nichols-beating-lawyer/
Sadly, it’s some idiotic shit that you think it’s so awful that no bad shit is gonna happen in your AO.
We had like 15 peoples show up to a protest in Phoenix. :rolleyes:
Some retard with a megaphone who could have just spoke at room volume.
SomeOtherGuy
01-29-23, 20:46
So no riots yet?
Is it because no one could come up with a plausible way to blame this on "Whiteness"?
So no riots yet?
Is it because no one could come up with a plausible way to blame this on "Whiteness"?
CNN tried. Pappabear read a title from CNN that said just cuz the cops were black, it doesn't mean racism didn't play a role.
Straight Shooter
01-30-23, 02:46
Just imagine, for a minute..what would happen if they found one or all of these cops not guilty.
About every city in America would not be a good place to be.
They cant get a "fair" trial in Memphis & I bet theyll move it, but who knows.
I believe it would be as bad or worse than Floyd.
It isn't going to matter where the trial is ultimately held. The footage from the bodycams and the additional video from the camera at the location where Nichols was caught and beaten is going to be seen by the jury. They are all going to prison.
Just imagine, for a minute..what would happen if they found one or all of these cops not guilty.
About every city in America would not be a good place to be.
...
I believe it would be as bad or worse than Floyd.Honestly, I'm not convinced that would be the case. OTOH, if the cops were white...
Honestly, I'm not convinced that would be the case. OTOH, if the cops were white...
The race of the LEOs is what would matter most no doubt, and they have still tried to play the racism card regardless.
john armond
01-30-23, 11:10
The race of the LEOs is what would matter most no doubt, and they have still tried to play the racism card regardless.
I believe the only white officer involved was the backup to the initial stop. He used his taser but stayed on scene with the suspect vehicle. I wrote when I linked the videos that the black officer on the initial stop should have stayed with the suspect vehicle. One could tell from the demeaner of that black officer that he was pissed and should not have gone after the suspect when the other officers spotted him.
Now, I am curious if they do go after the white officer for his statement where he said something like "I hope they stomp his ass." I would have to rewatch the video to see if it was actually the white officer who said it and what his actual words were though.
The Whitey officer is relieved of duty.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/01/just-sixth-memphis-police-officer-involved-fatal-beating-tyre-nichols-relieved-duty/
SomeOtherGuy
01-30-23, 11:48
CNN tried. Pappabear read a title from CNN that said just cuz the cops were black, it doesn't mean racism didn't play a role.
https://babylonbee.com/news/new-netflix-series-on-tyre-nichols-beating-to-feature-white-officers
LOS GATOS, CA — Netflix announced they have acquired the rights to tell the tragic story of Tyre Nichols' death at the hands of 5 black police officers. Leadership at the streaming giant confirmed the police officers will be portrayed by white actors.
"While we know the 5 officers who killed Nichols were factually black, it is also clear that they were morally white," said Netflix VP of Inclusion Vernā Myers. "Since TV is a visual medium, we want to convey to the viewer that these officers had the invisible specter of white supremacy flowing through their veins."
(the Bee is parody, but has a frightening tendency to accurately predict the future)
john armond
01-30-23, 12:22
The Whitey officer is relieved of duty.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/01/just-sixth-memphis-police-officer-involved-fatal-beating-tyre-nichols-relieved-duty/
Called it!
titsonritz
01-30-23, 15:20
The Whitey officer is relieved of duty.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/01/just-sixth-memphis-police-officer-involved-fatal-beating-tyre-nichols-relieved-duty/
That cinches it, let the riots proceed.
Called it!
Yeah, but it seems he was relieved of duty at the beginning of the police department's investigation, at the same time as the five who were charged... they’re just now announcing it, why?
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tyre-nichols-death-sixth-memphis-officer-preston-hemphill-administrative-leave/
Why is his identity and the role he played in Tyre's death just now coming to light? We have asked from the beginning that the Memphis Police Department be transparent with the family and the community – this news seems to indicate that they haven't risen to the occasion. It certainly begs the question why the white officer involved in this brutal attack was shielded and protected from the public eye, and to date, from sufficient discipline and accountability. The Memphis Police Department owes us all answers."
So... conspiracy time on!!
If they charge the white cop it’s going to be much harder to convict just based on the fact this guy had little knowledge of the events as he rolled up on, just what was put out on the radio. Then he immediately sees his buddies going hands on so like any other cop he’s assuming it’s happening and joins in. Not thinking this is going to end up with all his buddies in prison. At that point Tyre runs and is gone, so white cop ends up helping the black cop who got covered in pepper spray then stays with the stopped car.
So they end up charging him with whatever, trial time comes all the black cops go to prison and rightfully so and this kid walks. Not guilty... how’s that going to look once the media spin machine spools up?
It’s almost like someone wants this to pop off into riots or worse...
john armond
01-30-23, 16:24
Yeah, but it seems he was relieved of duty at the beginning of the police department's investigation, at the same time as the five who were charged... they’re just now announcing it, why?
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tyre-nichols-death-sixth-memphis-officer-preston-hemphill-administrative-leave/
So... conspiracy time on!!
If they charge the white cop it’s going to be much harder to convict just based on the fact this guy had little knowledge of the events as he rolled up on, just what was put out on the radio. Then he immediately sees his buddies going hands on so like any other cop he’s assuming it’s happening and joins in. Not thinking this is going to end up with all his buddies in prison. At that point Tyre runs and is gone, so white cop ends up helping the black cop who got covered in pepper spray then stays with the stopped car.
So they end up charging him with whatever, trial time comes all the black cops go to prison and rightfully so and this kid walks. Not guilty... how’s that going to look once the media spin machine spools up?
“Never let a crisis go to waste.”
ETA: Standard procedure could be to relieve of duty while the UOF investigation was underway since he took part in the initial actions. His actions don’t appear to rise to the point of criminality however. Of course the family is saying since he wasn’t terminated/charged he is being shielded due to being white. I don’t think this officer laid one blow, but I would need to watch the video again to be sure. Taser deployment yes.
WillieThom
01-30-23, 17:04
Just imagine, for a minute..what would happen if they found one or all of these cops not guilty.
About every city in America would not be a good place to be.
They cant get a "fair" trial in Memphis & I bet theyll move it, but who knows.
I believe it would be as bad or worse than Floyd.
Yeah, but it seems he was relieved of duty at the beginning of the police department's investigation, at the same time as the five who were charged... they’re just now announcing it, why?
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tyre-nichols-death-sixth-memphis-officer-preston-hemphill-administrative-leave/
So... conspiracy time on!!
If they charge the white cop it’s going to be much harder to convict just based on the fact this guy had little knowledge of the events as he rolled up on, just what was put out on the radio. Then he immediately sees his buddies going hands on so like any other cop he’s assuming it’s happening and joins in. Not thinking this is going to end up with all his buddies in prison. At that point Tyre runs and is gone, so white cop ends up helping the black cop who got covered in pepper spray then stays with the stopped car.
So they end up charging him with whatever, trial time comes all the black cops go to prison and rightfully so and this kid walks. Not guilty... how’s that going to look once the media spin machine spools up?
It’s almost like someone wants this to pop off into riots or worse...
I keep thinking about the potential similarities between this and the L.A. Riots back in ‘92. Even more so if you take what I’ve quoted and bolded into account. We are a ways away from the end of this, but it’s got some spooky ramifications for this country if anything like that actually happens… I imagine that it would make everything that stemmed from George Floyd a couple of years ago and from Rodney King a couple of decades ago look like child’s play.
2 other Memphis officers were relieved of duty, and 3 fire department workers are fired as new details emerge from the deadly police beating of Tyre Nichols
https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/30/us/tyre-nichols-protests-monday/index.html
2 other Memphis officers were relieved of duty, and 3 fire department workers are fired as new details emerge from the deadly police beating of Tyre Nichols
https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/30/us/tyre-nichols-protests-monday/index.html
"Martin’s attorney, William Massey, said “no one out there that night intended for Tyre Nichols to die.”"
That jackass and those claiming the beating couldn't possibly have caused death would of course decline getting the same due to fear of death.
Averageman
01-30-23, 21:12
"Martin’s attorney, William Massey, said “no one out there that night intended for Tyre Nichols to die.”
Obviously he's never been kicked in the head.
Edit to Add;
Democratic Mayor
Democratic City Counsel
Democratic Police Chief
Democratic City Attorney
Sure Blame "White Supremacy"
instead of blaming what's truly destroying "Black Lives"
The Democratic Party.
WillieThom
01-30-23, 22:28
Obviously he's never been kicked in the head.
Edit to Add;
Democratic Mayor
Democratic City Counsel
Democratic Police Chief
Democratic City Attorney
Sure Blame "White Supremacy"
instead of blaming what's truly destroying "Black Lives"
The Democratic Party.
See? Police. You said it yourself…… Lol
Obviously he's never been kicked in the head.
Edit to Add;
Democratic Mayor
Democratic City Counsel
Democratic Police Chief
Democratic City Attorney
Sure Blame "White Supremacy"
instead of blaming what's truly destroying "Black Lives"
The Democratic Party.
The citizens in Memphis WANTED a referendum on some recent ballots here about the residency restrictions on law enforcement officers and firemen...
City Council made damn sure that would NOT happen after that last time we had a special section on the ballot where the citizens voted to INCREASE the pay for those guys (which the council STILL REFUSED to do).
Votes ONLY count here if you are voting for what THEY want to do anyway... :(
Averageman
01-30-23, 23:18
See? Police. You said it yourself…… Lol
I don't understand your context.
WillieThom
01-31-23, 01:26
I don't understand your context.
Joking/sarcasm. BLM, Defund police, all cops are bad, etc.
The citizens in Memphis WANTED a referendum on some recent ballots here about the residency restrictions on law enforcement officers and firemen...
City Council made damn sure that would NOT happen after that last time we had a special section on the ballot where the citizens voted to INCREASE the pay for those guys (which the council STILL REFUSED to do).
Votes ONLY count here if you are voting for what THEY want to do anyway... :(
How much should they have been paid to prevent that from happening?
Could Nichols have cut them a check on scene to stop it?
Why is requiring them to live there bad?
And more shoes continue to drop:
Statement from Memphis PD in an article from the NY Post
The department also revealed that was even offering waivers for people who have been convicted on felony charges.
More: According to a source within the Memphis PD, the 5 charged officers weren’t hired through the usual structured PD hiring process. City leaders felt the existing process was too strict and kept certain people from getting jobs at the department. City leaders began their own hiring process and then pushed new hires into the agency, bypassing the testing procedures in place at the department. You can read between the lines what that all means.
All 5 of the charged officers were hired by the City, and didn’t go through the rigorous PD testing process.
Averageman
01-31-23, 10:54
And more shoes continue to drop:
Statement from Memphis PD in an article from the NY Post
The department also revealed that was even offering waivers for people who have been convicted on felony charges.
More: According to a source within the Memphis PD, the 5 charged officers weren’t hired through the usual structured PD hiring process. City leaders felt the existing process was too strict and kept certain people from getting jobs at the department. City leaders began their own hiring process and then pushed new hires into the agency, bypassing the testing procedures in place at the department. You can read between the lines what that all means.
All 5 of the charged officers were hired by the City, and didn’t go through the rigorous PD testing process.
That sounds like they had to hire thugs to get the job done.
I wouldn't want to live in Memphis and/or be a Memphis Cop. I will say however, you get the Police force you pay for.
Articulate, hardworking people with morales and an education want to be employed by like minded folks who will in turn go to bat for them.
As a White guy, I would be looking for the nearest Bus that they were going to throw me under.
If you have poor retirement, low wages and low morale, then have to lower the standards to fill the seats, you'll get thugs.
That sounds like they had to hire thugs to get the job done.
I wouldn't want to live in Memphis and/or be a Memphis Cop. I will say however, you get the Police force you pay for.
Articulate, hardworking people with morales and an education want to be employed by like minded folks who will in turn go to bat for them.
As a White guy, I would be looking for the nearest Bus that they were going to throw me under.
If you have poor retirement, low wages and low morale, then have to lower the standards to fill the seats, you'll get thugs.
Had to hire or wanted to hire? The 5 initial cops are making a typical wage for Memphis. Usually when something like this happens and the claim of not enough money comes up it will end up showing the officers are making significantly more than the average for the area.
john armond
01-31-23, 11:52
And more shoes continue to drop:
Statement from Memphis PD in an article from the NY Post
The department also revealed that was even offering waivers for people who have been convicted on felony charges.
More: According to a source within the Memphis PD, the 5 charged officers weren’t hired through the usual structured PD hiring process. City leaders felt the existing process was too strict and kept certain people from getting jobs at the department. City leaders began their own hiring process and then pushed new hires into the agency, bypassing the testing procedures in place at the department. You can read between the lines what that all means.
All 5 of the charged officers were hired by the City, and didn’t go through the rigorous PD testing process.
Something something, lowering standards, something something
And more shoes continue to drop:
Statement from Memphis PD in an article from the NY Post
The department also revealed that was even offering waivers for people who have been convicted on felony charges.
More: According to a source within the Memphis PD, the 5 charged officers weren’t hired through the usual structured PD hiring process. City leaders felt the existing process was too strict and kept certain people from getting jobs at the department. City leaders began their own hiring process and then pushed new hires into the agency, bypassing the testing procedures in place at the department. You can read between the lines what that all means.
All 5 of the charged officers were hired by the City, and didn’t go through the rigorous PD testing process.
Not unique to Memphis. There was a TN media outlet that would start looking around at TN agencies every few years and figure out they had hired felons and it wasn't just 1 or 2 people at 1 or 2 agencies.
There are vids circulating on SM about why no outrage / media when whitey gets the smack down from the poopoo.
https://mobile.twitter.com/streetmediatv/status/1620119237955289088
https://mobile.twitter.com/meantweeting1/status/1620467092855332865
https://mobile.twitter.com/Tango6Actual/status/1620080455654703110
Obviously he's never been kicked in the head.
Edit to Add;
Democratic Mayor
Democratic City Counsel
Democratic Police Chief
Democratic City Attorney
Sure Blame "White Supremacy"
instead of blaming what's truly destroying "Black Lives"
The Democratic Party.
The police chief used to be our police chief, where she kowtowed to BLM and social justice groups and took anti-gang police out of gang-infested areas. No one was sad when she left.
2 other Memphis officers were relieved of duty, and 3 fire department workers are fired as new details emerge from the deadly police beating of Tyre Nichols
https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/30/us/tyre-nichols-protests-monday/index.html
EMS/FD is set up for a wonderful civil suit. The EMTs owned the projection that LE had and did not assess him or treat him to protocol/policy (per media reports, and what I get asking around). I am not sure just firing them will be enough to keep the family off the FD's back.
Had to hire or wanted to hire? The 5 initial cops are making a typical wage for Memphis. Usually when something like this happens and the claim of not enough money comes up it will end up showing the officers are making significantly more than the average for the area.
A high risk job (you know what that means in this context here) SHOULD pay a good bit MORE than a 'safe' retail job at place like Target or WalMart.
Target stores here start at 15 bucks an hour for new hires with no experience. You want to do something that requires a little more work / brain power or skill than that and the pay goes way up... These cops were making entry level wages as compared to here in a field like construction. (a relatively 'safe' occupation)
Your comparing their wages to that of a burger flipper are 'disingenuous' at best.
A high risk job (you know what that means in this context here) SHOULD pay a good bit MORE than a 'safe' retail job at place like Target or WalMart.
Target stores here start at 15 bucks an hour for new hires with no experience. You want to do something that requires a little more work / brain power or skill than that and the pay goes way up... These cops were making entry level wages as compared to here in a field like construction. (a relatively 'safe' occupation)
Your comparing their wages to that of a burger flipper are 'disingenuous' at best.
Should be making more, I agree. But do they? Emergency services (LE/Fire/EMS) is still below (salary) average in many areas. Locally there are LE agencies that are making $15/hr. I don't know how they do it; our cost of living is freaking insane.
Now, I've no idea what they make in Memphis, nor what the cost/standard of living is like there.
Why is requiring them to live there bad?
Memphis is a tri-state area. You can be smack in the middle of down town Memphis and drive for 20 minutes (or much less) and be in Mississippi OR Arkansas. Not to mention all of the other different cities right over the line in the other direction that you could be in at the same amount of time...
Collierville, Bartlett, Fayette County, Lakeland...
None of those people that are right there and whose homes are mere minutes away from the actual Memphis city lines are eligible to even apply.
How is limiting a potential resource pool like that 'good'?
A high risk job (you know what that means in this context here) SHOULD pay a good bit MORE than a 'safe' retail job at place like Target or WalMart.
Target stores here start at 15 bucks an hour for new hires with no experience. You want to do something that requires a little more work / brain power or skill than that and the pay goes way up... These cops were making entry level wages as compared to here in a field like construction. (a relatively 'safe' occupation)
Your comparing their wages to that of a burger flipper are 'disingenuous' at best.
$15/hr × 40hrs = $600/week
$600/wk × 52/wks = $31,200
$31,200 < $45,623.50
Now who is being disingenuous?
Want to ballpark a dollar amount on the civil and criminal penalties a Memphis officer avoids via professional courtesy and legal exemptions that a Target employee would be on the hook for?
Let's not forget, at least some chance that 5($31,200/yr) Target employees decide to have the time of their lives beating a customer/store owner(depending on your perspective) to death and someone like Dicken comes along and gives them a modified El presidente.
Memphis is a tri-state area. You can be smack in the middle of down town Memphis and drive for 20 minutes (or much less) and be in Mississippi OR Arkansas. Not to mention all of the other different cities right over the line in the other direction that you could be in at the same amount of time...
Collierville, Bartlett, Fayette County, Lakeland...
None of those people that are right there and whose homes are mere minutes away from the actual Memphis city lines are eligible to even apply.
How is limiting a potential resource pool like that 'good'?
Do you want to limit who can hold office or vote in local elections to residents within a given area?
Best I can recall, I also asked how much it would take so the officers on scene don't behave in the way they did?
I feel safe in saying I am certain there are honest and ethical people living in Memphis.
I also feel safe in saying paying more isn't going to make someone more honest or more ethical. It wasn't like the party of however many were at the scene was stealing food.
Got to thinking, looking at the crew thus far they might be snagging food off the plates of anyone around them.
Should be making more, I agree. But do they? Emergency services (LE/Fire/EMS) is still below (salary) average in many areas. Locally there are LE agencies that are making $15/hr. I don't know how they do it; our cost of living is freaking insane.
Now, I've no idea what they make in Memphis, nor what the cost/standard of living is like there.
The lowest paid of the 5 initially named was making $45,623.50 in the latest list put out by Memphis.
Should be making more, I agree. But do they? Emergency services (LE/Fire/EMS) is still below (salary) average in many areas. Locally there are LE agencies that are making $15/hr. I don't know how they do it; our cost of living is freaking insane.
Now, I've no idea what they make in Memphis, nor what the cost/standard of living is like there.
While $ obviously matters, I do not think it's the main driver as to why so few want to be LEOs, and or why so many are leaving the profession, currently.
While $ obviously matters, I do not think it's the main driver as to why so few want to be LEOs, and or why so many are leaving the profession, currently.
The main driver? I wouldn't think so. Especially if I was Barney Fife (or Sheriff Andy) in Mayberry. But definitely a variable in the equation, especially in today's everyone-has-a-camera-anti-cop-defund-movement climate. It becomes easier to say, "I am not being paid enough for this shit." Interestingly, our local community college's nursing program has three former city cops who left because of the combination of money and bullshit of the job.
The main driver? I wouldn't think so. Especially if I was Barney Fife (or Sheriff Andy) in Mayberry. But definitely a variable in the equation, especially in today's everyone-has-a-camera-anti-cop-defund-movement climate. It becomes easier to say, "I am not being paid enough for this shit." Interestingly, our local community college's nursing program has three former city cops who left because of the combination of money and bullshit of the job.
Bodycam ok?
https://youtu.be/OJOFnSraW94
Should be making more, I agree. But do they? Emergency services (LE/Fire/EMS) is still below (salary) average in many areas. Locally there are LE agencies that are making $15/hr. I don't know how they do it; our cost of living is freaking insane.
Now, I've no idea what they make in Memphis, nor what the cost/standard of living is like there.
THAT is a big deal here.
The further AWAY from Memphis you get the BETTER the housing (standards of living) and the LOWER the costs are.
Not to forget or leave out how different 'blocks' in Memphis will cost you vastly different sums to live at. In many places the actual 'side' of the particular street can be a radical difference in security / quality and cost... (no joke)
Central Ave is a really good example here. Take a walk down Central from Hollywood ave towards the UofM and look from your right side to the left as you get there. Less than a 30 minute walk from A to B here. On the right side you are going to see the much 'cheaper part' of Memphis and on the left the WAY better off part.
That right side of that stretch of street is what I would call lower income housing. More expensive the closer you get to Central st but still low income housing for that area. You walk for 15 minutes towards that right side of there and you are smack in the middle of the hood. Everything (home values, security, etc.) drops exponentially in value the further you walk in that direction.
On the left side of that stretch of street you will walk past Chickasaw Gardens and the Memphis Pink Palace Museum. That dirt is worth a freaking fortune and you ain't even thinking about having a home there for less than a shit pile of money. Needless to say they pay for and have their own private security watching out for all of those home / property owners...
Bodycam ok?
https://youtu.be/OJOFnSraW94
Maybe it's just me, but it seems the commenter assumes several facts not in evidence. Was she DUI? Probably. Did she get preferential treatment? Probably. But, you can't make a case on "probably". JMO, YMMV
john armond
01-31-23, 16:45
The police chief used to be our police chief, where she kowtowed to BLM and social justice groups and took anti-gang police out of gang-infested areas. No one was sad when she left.
Talked to a former DPD officer I know today and he didn’t have anything nice to say about her from her time as his chief.
john armond
01-31-23, 16:49
Should be making more, I agree. But do they? Emergency services (LE/Fire/EMS) is still below (salary) average in many areas. Locally there are LE agencies that are making $15/hr. I don't know how they do it; our cost of living is freaking insane.
Now, I've no idea what they make in Memphis, nor what the cost/standard of living is like there.
As a municipal officer in a more rural county in NC I was making about $30k in 2008 with 10 years on the job. I moved to the Raleigh/Durham area and was making $38k a year in 2010 with a Masters degree now. More than half my time as an officer was on morning watch. Holidays were almost always a work day. Then there were the mandates, special event details, etc. I worked the late shift the night before my first child was born. My wife went into labor sometime after I got home and went to bed but waited until I got more sleep before she woke me up to tell me. I went back to work as soon as my usual scheduled days off were over. Thankfully my wife went into labor on my first day off.
Maybe it's just me, but it seems the commenter assumes several facts not in evidence. Was she DUI? Probably. Did she get preferential treatment? Probably. But, you can't make a case on "probably". JMO, YMMV
Can't build a case when any evidence gets ignored due to who the perp is either.
El Vaquero
01-31-23, 20:16
The lowest paid of the 5 initially named was making $45,623.50 in the latest list put out by Memphis.
What decade do you live in? The 1990’s?? $45k per year ain’t squat no matter where you live these days. It’s 2023 by the way. You definitely get what you pay for. Police Departments that are on the higher end of the pay bracket still get the occasional ****tards but not near as often on the lower end.
What decade do you live in? The 1990’s?? $45k per year ain’t squat no matter where you live these days. It’s 2023 by the way. You definitely get what you pay for. Police Departments that are on the higher end of the pay bracket still get the occasional ****tards but not near as often on the lower end.
Their pay is consistent with the pay of others in Memphis.
Asked before, how much money does it take to make someone honest and ethical?
Is this what it takes to buy honesty and ethics?
https://transparentcalifornia.com/salaries/2021/state-of-california/julie-v-harding/
"Julie V Harding
Captain, California Highway Patrol (2021)
Regular pay: $206,774.58
Overtime pay: $0.00
Other pay: $2,013.74
Total pay: $208,788.32
Benefits: $147,925.50"
El Vaquero
01-31-23, 20:41
Their pay is consistent with the pay of others in Memphis.
Asked before, how much money does it take to make someone honest and ethical?
Is this what it takes to buy honesty and ethics?
https://transparentcalifornia.com/salaries/2021/state-of-california/julie-v-harding/
"Julie V Harding
Captain, California Highway Patrol (2021)
Regular pay: $206,774.58
Overtime pay: $0.00
Other pay: $2,013.74
Total pay: $208,788.32
Benefits: $147,925.50"
Did you read my entire post? I’ll answer it for you. No.
Silly rabbit. You can’t buy honesty and ethics but higher pay justifies higher standards which helps screen out bad applicants.
And forcing applicants to live in the city they work is retarded. When one is off duty, they don’t want to see the people they arrested two months before when they’re shopping at Walmart with their family.
Did you read my entire post? I’ll answer it for you. No.
You are correct that $208,000 was not enough for Captain Harding to survive on.
https://www.cbsnews.com/sacramento/news/napa-man-named-in-murder-for-hire-plot-to-be-charged-with-murder-in-kentucky/
El Vaquero
01-31-23, 21:06
Since you’re still having difficulty reading I will put in bold for you.
What decade do you live in? The 1990’s?? $45k per year ain’t squat no matter where you live these days. It’s 2023 by the way. You definitely get what you pay for. Police Departments that are on the higher end of the pay bracket still get the occasional ****tards but not near as often on the lower end.
Since you’re still having difficulty reading I will put in bold for you.
And I keep asking how much does it cost to buy honesty and ethics.
Looking like $208k isn't enough either since she didn't have enough to keep up appearances.
El Vaquero
01-31-23, 21:27
Maybe you should just go back and read them before responding.
Did you read my entire post? I’ll answer it for you. No.
Silly rabbit. You can’t buy honesty and ethics but higher pay justifies higher standards which helps screen out bad applicants.
And forcing applicants to live in the city they work is retarded. When one is off duty, they don’t want to see the people they arrested two months before when they’re shopping at Walmart with their family.
And I keep asking how much does it cost to buy honesty and ethics.
Looking like $208k isn't enough either since she didn't have enough to keep up appearances.
No amount of money can buy honesty or ethics from a person who possesses neither. The issue has been explained to you but it can't be understood for you. You have to get to that point yourself with logic and reason.
Jsbhike completely understands what is being said. It just goes against his works view so he is playing these dumb word games as a distraction.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
01-31-23, 22:19
Arguing, debating, or even trying to communicate with jsbhike on this topic is an exercise in futility at best.
Jsbhike completely understands what is being said. It just goes against his works view so he is playing these dumb word games as a distraction.
Actually I don't get it.
Everytime incidents like this hit the news the "not getting paid enough" claim comes up so asking how much money to throw at the problem seems reasonable, yet like other problems where throwing money at it gets touted as the cure no one wants to say how much.
Another interesting thing is not wanting to require people to live there. Been seeing that concept in other parts of society for awhile now.
Arguing, debating, or even trying to communicate with jsbhike on this topic is an exercise in futility at best.
I keep seeing the claim of "not enough" so asking how much seems reasonable.
.
And forcing applicants to live in the city they work is retarded. When one is off duty, they don’t want to see the people they arrested two months before when they’re shopping at Walmart with their family.
I guess that will really be the case if Illinois, et al get their way.
I almost hope so.
https://youtu.be/9_2dhn5TkoM
Had to hire or wanted to hire? The 5 initial cops are making a typical wage for Memphis. Usually when something like this happens and the claim of not enough money comes up it will end up showing the officers are making significantly more than the average for the area.
In 2023, $45k is not “above average”, and will in fact not cover cost of living for a family of 4 with rent. I wonder how common it really is for cops to make “above average” in the cities they work in without overtime or details. It would not be unheard of for published payrates to include mandatory overtime.
And forcing applicants to live in the city they work is retarded. When one is off duty, they don’t want to see the people they arrested two months before when they’re shopping at Walmart with their family.
When I do EMS and TEMS, this is why I don’t work where I live. I don’t want to run into these people anymore than I have to. Few do live in their AOR anymore, unless they’re volleying in their fire district. Sometimes shit is too close to home, or at home, like the medic that got called to a cardiac arrest, at her own house, and later got the bill.
When I do EMS and TEMS, this is why I don’t work where I live. I don’t want to run into these people anymore than I have to. Few do live in their AOR anymore, unless they’re volleying in their fire district. Sometimes shit is too close to home, or at home, like the medic that got called to a cardiac arrest, at her own house, and later got the bill.
I did (work EMS/TEMS) where I lived, and it got close to home more than once.
In 2023, $45k is not “above average”, and will in fact not cover cost of living for a family of 4 with rent. I wonder how common it really is for cops to make “above average” in the cities they work in without overtime or details. It would not be unheard of for published payrates to include mandatory overtime.
When I do EMS and TEMS, this is why I don’t work where I live. I don’t want to run into these people anymore than I have to. Few do live in their AOR anymore, unless they’re volleying in their fire district. Sometimes shit is too close to home, or at home, like the medic that got called to a cardiac arrest, at her own house, and later got the bill.
He has been told this by people that live / work here and STILL refuses to accept the truth. He wants to compare the wages for what officers do to the wages of burger flippers.
Pretty clear he is doing his level best to use misleading numbers and comparisons to drive home an obviously false narrative here.
A garbage collector here can easily make more than a police officer. ESPECIALLY so if one considers the total number of hours worked by each... Which job involves the greater daily risk to personal safety between those two occupation choices??? (obviously the law enforcement officer)
He has been told this by people that live / work here and STILL refuses to accept the truth. He wants to compare the wages for what officers do to the wages of burger flippers.
Pretty clear he is doing his level best to use misleading numbers and comparisons to drive home an obviously false narrative here.
A garbage collector here can easily make more than a police officer. ESPECIALLY so if one considers the total number of hours worked by each... Which job involves the greater daily risk to personal safety between those two occupation choices??? (obviously the law enforcement officer)
When I was a Paramedic LT/FTO, the night mechanic told me what he made. It was double my wage. Taxpayers and policy makers simply don’t value public service professionals at the county level. Its not something I would ever do full-time again.
In 2023, $45k is not “above average”, and will in fact not cover cost of living for a family of 4 with rent. I wonder how common it really is for cops to make “above average” in the cities they work in without overtime or details. It would not be unheard of for published payrates to include mandatory overtime.
.
What I looked up indicated typical Memphis salaries are between $40k-65k per year with the Fab 5 being in that range.
To be specific though:
U.S. Census Bureau QuickFacts: Memphis city, Tennessee
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/memphiscitytennessee/BZA010220
"Median household income (in 2021 dollars), 2017-2021$43,981
Per capita income in past 12 months (in 2021 dollars), 2017-2021$28,258"
Numbers are not including overtime and I assume a majority of the people making $28,258 are not getting a vehicle and fuel as any part of their gig.
He has been told this by people that live / work here and STILL refuses to accept the truth. He wants to compare the wages for what officers do to the wages of burger flippers.
Pretty clear he is doing his level best to use misleading numbers and comparisons to drive home an obviously false narrative here.
A garbage collector here can easily make more than a police officer. ESPECIALLY so if one considers the total number of hours worked by each... Which job involves the greater daily risk to personal safety between those two occupation choices??? (obviously the law enforcement officer)
The 5th most dangerous job has about double the fatality rate of the 22nd most dangerous job.
https://www.facilities.udel.edu/safety/4689/
What I looked up indicated typical Memphis salaries are between $40k-65k per year with the Fab 5 being in that range.
To be specific though:
U.S. Census Bureau QuickFacts: Memphis city, Tennessee
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/memphiscitytennessee/BZA010220
"Median household income (in 2021 dollars), 2017-2021$43,981
Per capita income in past 12 months (in 2021 dollars), 2017-2021$28,258"
Numbers are not including overtime and I assume a majority of the people making $28,258 are not getting a vehicle and fuel as any part of their gig.
The vehicle is not for the officer's personal use, unlike an employer leasing a vehicle for an employee's use. It does save the cost of driving to and from work.
It is illogical to include overtime in salary comparisons. My salary is xxx per year. If I work and am paid for extra hours, it does not change my salary.
Rank and file cops are underpaid, with very few exceptions.
Andy
What I looked up indicated typical Memphis salaries are between $40k-65k per year with the Fab 5 being in that range.
To be specific though:
U.S. Census Bureau QuickFacts: Memphis city, Tennessee
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/memphiscitytennessee/BZA010220
"Median household income (in 2021 dollars), 2017-2021$43,981
Per capita income in past 12 months (in 2021 dollars), 2017-2021$28,258"
Numbers are not including overtime and I assume a majority of the people making $28,258 are not getting a vehicle and fuel as any part of their gig.
What year is it right now, so I can determine if you are alert and oriented?
The vehicle is not for the officer's personal use, unlike an employer leasing a vehicle for an employee's use. It does save the cost of driving to and from work.
It is illogical to include overtime in salary comparisons. My salary is xxx per year. If I work and am paid for extra hours, it does not change my salary.
Rank and file cops are underpaid, with very few exceptions.
Andy
That would be why I did not stick in overtime as has been suggested on Memphis LE salaries.
So how much?
What year is it right now, so I can determine if you are alert and oriented?
2021 is the most recent census bureau data I can find which is also the last year Memphis put out its employee salaries that I have mentioned here.
https://www.memphistn.gov/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/City-of-Memphis-Employee-Salaries-August-2021.pdf
So, the lowest paid of the 5 was making @$17k more per year than the average.
When I was a Paramedic LT/FTO, the night mechanic told me what he made. It was double my wage. Taxpayers and policy makers simply don’t value public service professionals at the county level. Its not something I would ever do full-time again.
Again, The taxpayers in Memphis VOTED for themselves to pay more in taxes so that the police and fire depts could be paid more but... The city council refused to do so. :(
The taxpayers in Memphis WANT a referendum on a ballot about the residency requirement for fire and police but the city council REFUSES to consider or allow it because they KNOW the citizens will vote to strike that rule down in a heartbeat.
Our mayor and city council want to screw off our money on a damn ferris wheel for downtown instead of listening to the citizens and spending the money on the police. Not a joke... :(
Having been a TEMS medic (and BLT certified to do so) I know a bunch of cops. One guy (LEO) is on a group text, he texts job opportunities around the country. Just now he put one out for LEOs in Flatwoods, Kentucky (I have ZERO clue where that is), starting at $81,476. Part of our discussion is that there is usually a reason that some departments highball their salaries to attract people: bad culture, bad leadership, crappy conditions, something.
...and I assume a majority of the people making $28,258 are not getting a vehicle and fuel as any part of their gig.
So you know you are using / comparing welfare recipient numbers to that of actual working and self supporting adults in high risk jobs. But you still do it...
:rolleyes:
El Vaquero
02-01-23, 13:24
jsbhike- You can use the amount of what they actually made per year if you’d like. But what what the folks here are trying to get you to understand is the entry level salary is the one that’s important. If you say it fits in with the median salaries, then that’s the candidate you’re going to get. Or probably less then. Because for median range there are a heck of lot of other options out there.
If you offer median pay than at most you can expect are average to sub average candidates.
So you know you are using / comparing welfare recipient numbers to that of actual working and self supporting adults in high risk jobs. But you still do it...
:rolleyes:
Someone not receiving a company supplied vehicle + fuel does not equal welfare recipient.
I initially mentioned the officers were making a typical salary for Memphis (low $40k to high 60k) at their $45k to $65k range and that got the claim that couldn't possibly be the average there so I looked up average per capita income which is where the $28k came from. Of course the $28k gets a boost from the executive salaries at FedEx HQ and any other similar companies which is far beyond the income of a typical Memphis resident.
jsbhike- You can use the amount of what they actually made per year if you’d like. But what what the folks here are trying to get you to understand is the entry level salary is the one that’s important. If you say it fits in with the median salaries, then that’s the candidate you’re going to get. Or probably less then. Because for median range there are a heck of lot of other options out there.
If you offer median pay than at most you can expect are average to sub average candidates.
Entry like the "prob" suffix on the $45k officers involved while those on longer were @$65k?
https://www.memphistn.gov/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/City-of-Memphis-Employee-Salaries-August-2021.pdf
Having been a TEMS medic (and BLT certified to do so) I know a bunch of cops. One guy (LEO) is on a group text, he texts job opportunities around the country. Just now he put one out for LEOs in Flatwoods, Kentucky (I have ZERO clue where that is), starting at $81,476. Part of our discussion is that there is usually a reason that some departments highball their salaries to attract people: bad culture, bad leadership, crappy conditions, something.
So 3× what the average person there makes isn't good enough or?
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/flatwoodscitykentucky
jsbhike- You can use the amount of what they actually made per year if you’d like. But what what the folks here are trying to get you to understand is the entry level salary is the one that’s important. If you say it fits in with the median salaries, then that’s the candidate you’re going to get. Or probably less then. Because for median range there are a heck of lot of other options out there.
If you offer median pay than at most you can expect are average to sub average candidates.
Where every D head with a cell phone is not doing their best to antagonize you, your own bosses don't back you, the media spends all its time trying to convince the public you're a racist Nazi white nationalist who kicks puppies for a hobby, etc, etc. Sure, more $ would make more willing to tolerate that BS, anyone with a brain not so interested these days. That's obviously by design to continue driving the wedge in society to covet power over the plebs.
Where every D head with a cell phone is not doing their best to antagonize you, your own bosses don't back you, the media spends all its time trying to convince the public you're a racist Nazi white nationalist who kicks puppies for a hobby, etc, etc. Sure, more $ would make more willing to tolerate that BS, anyone with a brain not so interested these days. That's obviously by design to continue driving the wedge in society to covet power over the plebs.
If it wasn't for video this thread wouldn't exist.
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