View Full Version : For fans of the movie Heat...
Obviously an iconic movie and one of my favorites. But did you know there is a Heat 2 book?? It just came out last year and its even written by Michael Mann the director of the movie. I didn't realize it until today and immediately placed my order. If anyone has read it please chime in and let me know your thoughts on it. NO SPOILERS PLEASE. I'm really hoping it turns out to be just as epic as the movie.
Apparently it is a prequel and a sequel which sounds great to me. Looking forward to reading about the future endeavors of Chris Shiherlis (Val Kilmer's character) as he was one of my favorites. Loved how he went "commando" with his Colt Model 733 in the big shootout. Also had some good HK91 action as well.
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71dyaHwc-hL._AC_UF700,800_QL80_.jpg
Averageman
02-04-23, 21:56
I'm ordering it now.
ViniVidivici
02-04-23, 22:07
Perhaps the prequel aspect will shed more light on the connection between Chris and Neil from years past.
They certainly work in a very disciplined way during the big shootout scene. Bounding, communicating, using cover, etc., it's textbook.
Very cool stuff!
Yes I agree Neil and Chris definitely had a past history together, especially the way Neil risked his life to help Chris get up and move after taking a round to the shoulder.
Those two, along with Michael Cheritto seemed to be pretty close-knit. Cheritto was another interesting character, and he put a lot of rounds on target during the big shootout with his Galil.
FromMyColdDeadHand
02-04-23, 23:17
And while we are all here I’ll also mention that we’ve all seen the movie “Thief”, correct?
Perhaps the prequel aspect will shed more light on the connection between Chris and Neil from years past.
They certainly work in a very disciplined way during the big shootout scene. Bounding, communicating, using cover, etc., it's textbook.
Very cool stuff!
Consultant was Andy McNab of Bravo Two Zero fame.
And while we are all here I’ll also mention that we’ve all seen the movie “Thief”, correct?
Part of the Canon.
Read it when it came out. Goes even bigger if you can believe it. Worth the read and makes you want a sequel...
Dennis.
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And while we are all here I’ll also mention that we’ve all seen the movie “Thief”, correct?
Don't forget Manhunter
ViniVidivici
02-05-23, 08:15
Yeah I'd heard McNabb consulted.
Yes "Thief", great flick. Been a few years though... James Cahn with a 1911, and a very realistic portrayal of the use of a magnesium lance.
What's the connection with "Heat"?
I downloaded it on my Kindle...it is on the list to read...
Read it when it came out. Goes even bigger if you can believe it. Worth the read and makes you want a sequel...
Dennis.
Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk
Thanks for the teaser..lol
Yeah I'd heard McNabb consulted.
Yes "Thief", great flick. Been a few years though... James Cahn with a 1911, and a very realistic portrayal of the use of a magnesium lance.
What's the connection with "Heat"?
All Michael Mann films.
Read it last fall. Good read. I give it a solid B+.
Read it last fall. Good read. I give it a solid B+.
Awesome, that's what I wanted to hear.
FromMyColdDeadHand
02-05-23, 23:03
Yeah I'd heard McNabb consulted.
Yes "Thief", great flick. Been a few years though... James Cahn with a 1911, and a very realistic portrayal of the use of a magnesium lance.
What's the connection with "Heat"?
And is seen as a prototype for Heat. The focus on a ‘good’ professional criminal. Focus on skills and process.
Read it last fall. Good read. I give it a solid B+.
As did I, it was good, it felt a little rushed at the end. B or B+ sounds right
The great part about the book, is that when you've seen the movie A thousand times like I have you can already visualize the characters, their mannerisms, etc. I thought it would be gimmicky, but it really comes to life like no other book I've read.
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And is seen as a prototype for Heat. The focus on a ‘good’ professional criminal. Focus on skills and process.
I thought LA Takedown was the prototype for HEAT. Thief was a great flick in it's own right.
As for Heat 2, I enjoyed it. Alot of fun, good character budling and tied into the movie very well IMHO.
FromMyColdDeadHand
02-06-23, 22:50
I thought LA Takedown was the prototype for HEAT. Thief was a great flick in it's own right.
As for Heat 2, I enjoyed it. Alot of fun, good character budling and tied into the movie very well IMHO.
Yes, but.
https://crimereads.com/michael-mann-early-career-heat/
Michael Mann’s “Heat” (1995) is widely considered a cinematic masterpiece. Not only do we follow as L.A. detective Vincent Hanna (Al Pacino) chases ultra-disciplined thief Neil McCauley (Robert De Niro) across the city, but we also dip into the lives of characters tangential to that pursuit—wives, daughters, hustlers, marks, cops, and criminals who are often fully realized despite having relatively little screen-time.
Like many masterpieces, “Heat” didn’t emerge fully formed. You could argue that much of Mann’s cinematic career up to that point was a rehearsal of sorts, allowing him to work on character and story points.
This progression begins in 1981, when Mann released “Thief,” his first foray into feature films. The titular criminal, Frank (played by James Caan), has a reputation for pulling off complex, high-risk scores.
Just finished reading it. Overall I give it 8 out of 10 and if you're a fan of the movie you will definitely enjoy the book. As someone already mentioned, it is nice when you already "know" the characters...their personalities, appearance, mannerisms, etc.
The score the trio took down (McCauley, Shiherlis, and Cheritto) in Mexico seven years before the movie took place was intense and VERY risky. This was also when they met Trejo. In the 5 years after the movie, Chris Shiherlis really grew even more disciplined and methodical and in my opinion to a greater degree than Neil McCauley was.
I would have liked to known more about when/how McCauley and Shiherlis met other than just a brief mention of their time in Folsom State prison. You also never learn how Cheritto became part of the crew.
Solid book and entertaining throughout it's entirety. Have to smile when you learn the crew's overall weapon of choice was the CAR-15 even long before their scores in Los Angeles.
Most frustrating movie EVER!!
Some scenes are so well done but much of it is preposterous and slow moving!
This marks when Pacino became a parody of himself as well and stopped acting.
Had such incredible potential...too bad Scorsese didn't get ahold of it!
FromMyColdDeadHand
02-18-23, 21:20
Only 40 pages in, but I really like the writing style.
This is a good clip about the actual events the movie Heat is based on, definitely worth watching. It happened in Chicago in the 60's
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1e_gCVJI5h0&ab_channel=PopoMedic
Most frustrating movie EVER!!
Some scenes are so well done but much of it is preposterous and slow moving!
This marks when Pacino became a parody of himself as well and stopped acting.
Had such incredible potential...too bad Scorsese didn't get ahold of it!Pacino's character was a coke head. Not directly alluded to in the movie, but part of the character's backstory.
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Most frustrating movie EVER!!
Some scenes are so well done but much of it is preposterous and slow moving!
This marks when Pacino became a parody of himself as well and stopped acting.
Had such incredible potential...too bad Scorsese didn't get ahold of it!
Gonna need an example.
Holy Shat! I don't know how it can work. But heat is my favorite movie of that genre.
Wait it's a prequel and it's called Heat 2? That's different
FromMyColdDeadHand
02-19-23, 21:56
Gonna need an example.
I think I know what it means. You could make a TIGHT 1:30 pure action movie if you take out the wife/girlfriend parts. Heck, even the Waingrow parts to pare it down more. I thought that too when I first watched it, but all that 'stuff' adds a lot to the characters in the long, and I mean long 3 hour run.
Adrenaline_6
02-20-23, 09:59
Nobody does action scenes like Mann. He uses the right music and very little dialogue. The way it would be in real life, minus the music of course. The music just pulls you in to the action at hand. The cliff scene on Last of the Mohicans is another great example.
ViniVidivici
02-20-23, 14:07
As well as the classic "yo homie, is that my breifcase" scene....
I think I know what it means. You could make a TIGHT 1:30 pure action movie if you take out the wife/girlfriend parts. Heck, even the Waingrow parts to pare it down more. I thought that too when I first watched it, but all that 'stuff' adds a lot to the characters in the long, and I mean long 3 hour run.
People who live Tik Tok lives should avoid these films. They would NEVER survive the first two godfather films. All of that shit means something.
Heat is among a handful of perfect films, but I wouldn't mind a 4 hour directors cut.
Nobody does action scenes like Mann. He uses the right music and very little dialogue. The way it would be in real life, minus the music of course. The music just pulls you in to the action at hand. The cliff scene on Last of the Mohicans is another great example.
Light. Mann's signature thing is what he does with light.
People who live Tik Tok lives should avoid these films. They would NEVER survive the first two godfather films. All of that shit means something.
Heat is among a handful of perfect films, but I wouldn't mind a 4 hour directors cut.AMEN. Trim Heat? They clearly have no appreciation of movies and should stick to watching fast and the furious sequels.
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I used to think of Heat as just another one of those Pacino/Deniro movies; until I realized there are very few. Godfather II comes to mind and maybe a newer cheesier one here and there.
But even greater realization came when I noticed that in Heat their characters play off each other so well, that you almost miss that they basically only have one scene together; in that diner where they are explaining how one chose the life of crime and one chose the life of enforcing the law. I don't even think they shared a screen shot together, just camera work, switching from one face to the other. Awesome directing.
I will be looking for this Heat 2 book. I also like how he use the number 2 in the title, instead of the numeral II, which could have been seen as taking from the godfathers. Thanks for sharing.
titsonritz
02-20-23, 21:49
As well as the classic "yo homie, is that my breifcase" scene....
I watched that one last night.
titsonritz
02-20-23, 21:54
People who live Tik Tok lives should avoid these films. They would NEVER survive the first two godfather films. All of that shit means something.
Heat is among a handful of perfect films, but I wouldn't mind a 4 hour directors cut.
I'd rather watch a 4 hour movie the feels like a 2 and half hour movie than a 2 hour movie that feels like a 4 hour movie.
titsonritz
02-20-23, 21:54
People who live Tik Tok lives should avoid these films. They would NEVER survive the first two godfather films. All of that shit means something.
Heat is among a handful of perfect films, but I wouldn't mind a 4 hour directors cut.
Name three others...
Adrenaline_6
02-20-23, 22:48
Light. Mann's signature thing is what he does with light.
I agree. Another signature thing...but the no dialog with the right music is another.
FromMyColdDeadHand
02-20-23, 23:24
People who live Tik Tok lives should avoid these films. They would NEVER survive the first two godfather films. All of that shit means something.
Heat is among a handful of perfect films, but I wouldn't mind a 4 hour directors cut.
There should be at least one scene with Dinero‘s character, tearing down his sick 226 at the end of the day, and putting it back together. Maybe making it almost the ritual of when he comes home. The book makes a big deal out of there, being nothing in the house, where he lives, except for there should’ve been some cleaning patches and some Hoppes number nine.
I used to think of Heat as just another one of those Pacino/Deniro movies; until I realized there are very few. Godfather II comes to mind and maybe a newer cheesier one here and there.
But even greater realization came when I noticed that in Heat their characters play off each other so well, that you almost miss that they basically only have one scene together; in that diner where they are explaining how one chose the life of crime and one chose the life of enforcing the law. I don't even think they shared a screen shot together, just camera work, switching from one face to the other. Awesome directing.
I will be looking for this Heat 2 book. I also like how he use the number 2 in the title, instead of the numeral II, which could have been seen as taking from the godfathers. Thanks for sharing.
You are correct, they are in the same scene, but there is never a shot with them in frame at the same time.
Name three others...
Ronin.
Usual Suspects
Rockstar with Mark Whalberg…. I’m not saying the best films I’m not saying, it’s even a great film, but it is “perfect “in that there are no flaws to it. It’s like he perfectly round hand drawn circle. Seemingly simple, but almost impossible to execute. The characters, their development, the story arc, and the lessons of it are all simple, but perfectly executed. That and some kick ass hair band songs.
There should be at least one scene with Dinero‘s character, tearing down his sick 226 at the end of the day, and putting it back together. Maybe making it almost the ritual of when he comes home. The book makes a big deal out of there, being nothing in the house, where he lives, except for there should’ve been some cleaning patches and some Hoppes number nine.
You are correct, they are in the same scene, but there is never a shot with them in frame at the same time.
Ronin.
Usual Suspects
Rockstar with Mark Whalberg…. I’m not saying the best films I’m not saying, it’s even a great film, but it is “perfect “in that there are no flaws to it. It’s like he perfectly round hand drawn circle. Seemingly simple, but almost impossible to execute. The characters, their development, the story arc, and the lessons of it are all simple, but perfectly executed. That and some kick ass hair band songs.
I am pretty sure he had a P220. How else do you explain the few shot drops..lol
ViniVidivici
02-21-23, 08:21
A pro like that would never use shitty stinky Hoppes 9.
As far as Deniro/Pacino films, I thought "Righteous Kill" was pretty good....although, much like "Law Abiding Citizen", Hollywood once again gets it wrong with who the good guy really is...
FromMyColdDeadHand
02-21-23, 08:42
A pro like that would never use shitty stinky Hoppes 9.
As far as Deniro/Pacino films, I thought "Righteous Kill" was pretty good....although, much like "Law Abiding Citizen", Hollywood once again gets it wrong with who the good guy really is...
It was the early 90s, was there anything else?? ;)
ViniVidivici
02-21-23, 09:08
HA! Yes....but I was usin' Break Free back then...
There should be at least one scene with Dinero‘s character, tearing down his sick 226 at the end of the day, and putting it back together. Maybe making it almost the ritual of when he comes home. The book makes a big deal out of there, being nothing in the house, where he lives, except for there should’ve been some cleaning patches and some Hoppes number nine.
The book talks about a storage unit somewhere in Los Angeles (Torrance if I remember correctly) that Neil and Chris paid for years in advance. It is basically an armory with firearms, knives, ammunition, and cleaning supplies. Chris drives there to obtain the McMillan TAC-338 (as well as an HK G36) in preparation for his revenge on Vincent Hanna.
Anyway, Neil probably used that storage unit for cleaning and purposely never brought any firearms to his house which is smart if you think about it....nothing there to tie him to anything.
I used to think of Heat as just another one of those Pacino/Deniro movies; until I realized there are very few. Godfather II comes to mind and maybe a newer cheesier one here and there.
But even greater realization came when I noticed that in Heat their characters play off each other so well, that you almost miss that they basically only have one scene together; in that diner where they are explaining how one chose the life of crime and one chose the life of enforcing the law. I don't even think they shared a screen shot together, just camera work, switching from one face to the other. Awesome directing.
I will be looking for this Heat 2 book. I also like how he use the number 2 in the title, instead of the numeral II, which could have been seen as taking from the godfathers. Thanks for sharing.
One of the reasons Heat is so strong a film is Michael Mann had lots of opportunity to refine ideas, especially the made for tv film LA Takedown which is essentially the same film with lower production values. Mann was also able to take elements that had worked from tv shows such as Miami Vice and Crime Story, the scene where Pacino catches his wife cheating and takes the tv and then throws it out of the car is actually from the 80s tv show crime story.
Name three others...
King Kong (1933)
Best Years of Our Lives
Godfather
Tora, Tora, Tora
To Live and Die in LA
LA Confidential
It was a great book. As others mentioned if you were a fan of the movie you could see the actors while reading the book. It did a great job of being a prequel and a sequel all at the same time. I hope Mann and Gardner team up for another book or two.
titsonritz
02-28-23, 17:35
King Kong (1933)
Best Years of Our Lives
Godfather
Tora, Tora, Tora
To Live and Die in LA
L.A. Confidential
Dang it I was hoping for a "new" one but I've got all these and I agree with your list they are some my favorite movies. I just watched "Best Years of Our Lives" for the first time about a year ago. Many movies made from that era do not translate well today, that one really does. I'm also a Teresa Wright fan from "Shadow of a Doubt". I've always thought "To Live and Die in LA" is a very under rated movie. I loved how William Peterson got smoked at the end, didn't see that coming first time around. One Willem Dafoe's best roles, too. I also think "Manhunter" is the best in the Hannibal Lecter saga. L.A. Confidential and Mulholland Drive are my favorite neo-noir films, which I credit for my interest in that genre and by extension film noir. The original "King Kong" made a huge impression on my as a kid, that and "Night of the Living Dead" are clear standouts from my early youth. As I grew older I was really able to appreciate the complexity and truly pioneering film making that went into King Kong. A bunch of techniques still used today. "Tora, Tora, Tora" is one of the best WWII movies and the single best about the day that will live in infamy there isn't even a close second.
If I was going to add to that list right off the top of my head I'd say "Das Boot", "No Country for Old Men" and "Vertigo".
Dang it I was hoping for a "new" one but I've got all these and I agree with your list they are some my favorite movies. I just watched "Best Years of Our Lives" for the first time about a year ago. Many movies made from that era do not translate well today, that one really does. I'm also a Teresa Wright fan from "Shadow of a Doubt". I've always thought "To Live and Die in LA" is a very under rated movie. I loved how William Peterson got smoked at the end, didn't see that coming first time around. One Willem Dafoe's best roles, too. I also think "Manhunter" is the best in the Hannibal Lecter saga. L.A. Confidential and Mulholland Drive are my favorite neo-noir films, which I credit for my interest in that genre and by extension film noir. The original "King Kong" made a huge impression on my as a kid, that and "Night of the Living Dead" are clear standouts from my early youth. As I grew older I was really able to appreciate the complexity and truly pioneering film making that went into King Kong. A bunch of techniques still used today. "Tora, Tora, Tora" is one of the best WWII movies and the single best about the day that will live in infamy there isn't even a close second.
If I was going to add to that list right off the top of my head I'd say "Das Boot", "No Country for Old Men" and "Vertigo".
You obviously know film. I don't think I'd have many "perfect film" candidates you wouldn't know about.
What I love about "Best Years of Our Lives" (besides being a Myrna Loy fan) is that it is a common "coming home" story. I wish they'd show it to all returning vets. King Kong was flat out the greatest "adventure" film every made, it had every element. Some films like Tarzan come close.
So here are some "fun" ones you may not have seen.
The Most Dangerous Game (1934) - Starring Fay Wray and filmed on the same exact locations as King Kong.
Lost Horizon (1937) - One of the last, "lost world" films and probably the best.
The Razor's Edge (1984) - One of the few times the remake is better than the original, although I recommend also watching the 1946 version.
Hope and Glory (1987) - The London Blitz from a kids perspective, if you liked "Empire of the Sun" you'll like this one.
The Dogs of War (1980) - Maybe the best "merc" film ever and blows the book away.
Marlowe (1969) - James Garner as the coolest private eye ever with Bruce Lee as a bad guy enforcer.
titsonritz
02-28-23, 19:35
The Most Dangerous Game (1934) - Starring Fay Wray and filmed on the same exact locations as King Kong. Got it
Lost Horizon (1937) - One of the last, "lost world" films and probably the best. I'll have to check that one out, sounds like a goodie
The Razor's Edge (1984) - One of the few times the remake is better than the original, although I recommend also watching the 1946 version. I've seen the original but not the remake, most suck so I typically don't go out of my way to check them out unless it is recommended to me.
Hope and Glory (1987) - The London Blitz from a kids perspective, if you liked "Empire of the Sun" you'll like this one. haven't seen this one either
The Dogs of War (1980) - Maybe the best "merc" film ever and blows the book away. Got it, great movie
Marlowe (1969) - James Garner as the coolest private eye ever with Bruce Lee as a bad guy enforcer. Got it, along with most all of the Marlowe movies. The one that surprised "The Long Goodbye" because I'm not much of an Elliot Gould fan. Yeah, the Bruce scenes rocked, tearing up Marlowe's office and taking that long step off the roof...classic.
Thanks for the suggestions.
The Most Dangerous Game (1934) - Starring Fay Wray and filmed on the same exact locations as King Kong. Got it
Lost Horizon (1937) - One of the last, "lost world" films and probably the best. I'll have to check that one out, sounds like a goodie
The Razor's Edge (1984) - One of the few times the remake is better than the original, although I recommend also watching the 1946 version. I've seen the original but not the remake, most suck so I typically don't go out of my way to check them out unless it is recommended to me.
Hope and Glory (1987) - The London Blitz from a kids perspective, if you liked "Empire of the Sun" you'll like this one. haven't seen this one either
The Dogs of War (1980) - Maybe the best "merc" film ever and blows the book away. Got it, great movie
Marlowe (1969) - James Garner as the coolest private eye ever with Bruce Lee as a bad guy enforcer. Got it, along with most all of the Marlowe movies. The one that surprised "The Long Goodbye" because I'm not much of an Elliot Gould fan. Yeah, the Bruce scenes rocked, tearing up Marlowe's office and taking that long step off the roof...classic.
Thanks for the suggestions.
When you watch the remake of The Razor's Edge, just accept that Bill Murray is doing a serious film without the slapstick comedy. If you can get your head past that, it's actually a good film. Another Murray sleeper is "Quick Change" (1990) which isn't as good but interesting to see Murray in a Crime Drama with comedic elements.
The scene where the police negotiators contact him and he drops "I was in 'Nam with a jerk like you" was brilliant. Everyone hated it because it wasn't Meatballs or Caddyshack but it's better than some of his other films that people thing are wonderful.
Oh and "Three Days of the Condor" (1975) if we are talking about movies that surprise.
titsonritz
02-28-23, 23:01
When you watch the remake of The Razor's Edge, just accept that Bill Murray is doing a serious film without the slapstick comedy. If you can get your head past that, it's actually a good film. Another Murray sleeper is "Quick Change" (1990) which isn't as good but interesting to see Murray in a Crime Drama with comedic elements.
The scene where the police negotiators contact him and he drops "I was in 'Nam with a jerk like you" was brilliant. Everyone hated it because it wasn't Meatballs or Caddyshack but it's better than some of his other films that people thing are wonderful.
Oh and "Three Days of the Condor" (1975) if we are talking about movies that surprise.
It must suck for comedians that want to put out serious roles but get stuck with B.S. stigma
Another good one I got. "Three Days of the Condor" (1975)
It must suck for comedians that want to put out serious roles but get stuck with B.S. stigma
Another good one I got. "Three Days of the Condor" (1975)
Ironically, that's what makes his version of The Razor's Edge work. There is nothing goofball in that film, the character of course has a sense of humor but Murray did a great job keeping it in check and made a reasonable film about the meaning of life.
And if you find you like "Hope and Glory" as much as I think you will, John Boorman directed a few other really good ones. I'm sure you have seen Excalibur (1981) but few people have seen The Emerald Forest (1985). He also did Zardoz (1974) which is conceptually interesting and explores what happens when bored, immortals have dominion over primitive "mortal" men. The special effects aren't terribly special and Sean Connery in hooker boots is kind of hard to watch but the bizarre elements aside, it's still worth a watch.
titsonritz
03-01-23, 02:10
Ironically, that's what makes his version of The Razor's Edge work. There is nothing goofball in that film, the character of course has a sense of humor but Murray did a great job keeping it in check and made a reasonable film about the meaning of life.
And if you find you like "Hope and Glory" as much as I think you will, John Boorman directed a few other really good ones. I'm sure you have seen Excalibur (1981) but few people have seen The Emerald Forest (1985). He also did Zardoz (1974) which is conceptually interesting and explores what happens when bored, immortals have dominion over primitive "mortal" men. The special effects aren't terribly special and Sean Connery in hooker boots is kind of hard to watch but the bizarre elements aside, it's still worth a watch.
Yep got Excalibur, I remember when The Emerald Forest came out but that was forever ago. Zardoz is a classic, I've seen but not in a long time and don't have it, probably should add it to the collection.
Well this is cool news: https://deadline.com/2023/04/michael-mann-heat-2-warner-bros-adam-driver-young-neil-mccauley-1235316777/
ViniVidivici
04-03-23, 21:50
Right on! I do think Driver would pull that role off very well too.
Well this is cool news: https://deadline.com/2023/04/michael-mann-heat-2-warner-bros-adam-driver-young-neil-mccauley-1235316777/
"We'll see..." said the Zen master.
Blue light, and I think he produced Black Hat also.
Right on! I do think Driver would pull that role off very well too.
Pablo Schreiber would be better....but Driver is a former Marine so there is thst
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