View Full Version : Ohio train derailment
Why is no one talking about this, a media blackout is suspicious.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWBXsqRKI1U
Greg Price
@greg_price11
·
2h
Buttigieg made no mention of the Ohio train derailment while speaking at a conference this morning but did find the time to say that there are too many white people who work construction.
kanekoa.substack.com
@KanekoaTheGreat
3m
THREAD: Photos, videos, and news reports about the train derailment and toxic chemical release in East Palestine, Ohio.
This may be the largest environmental disaster in U.S. history.
Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene����
@RepMTG
·
20h
East Palestine, Ohio is undergoing an ecological disaster bc authorities blew up the train derailment cars carrying hazardous chemicals and press are being arrested for trying to tell the story.
Oh but UFO’s!
What is going on?
Mayra Flores
@MayraFlores2022
·
1h
Silence from the press and the federal government is dereliction of duty to the public. Where is Pete Buttigieg? How will this Ohio train derailment affect our farmers, the nearby population, and our supply chain for Americans?
Vidmax.com
@VidmaxMedia
·
25m
While America focuses on UFOs, a massive train derailment in East Palestine, Ohio has caused a massive toxic cloud, killing fish and foxes miles away and getting residents very sick.
#trainderailment #EastPalestine #OhioTrainDisaster #OhioChernobyl #trainwreck
Adrenaline_6
02-13-23, 13:37
Yup...there is something sketchy going on.
The Banana Republic at work.
Averageman
02-13-23, 14:34
Anyone have a basic idea of what chemicals they were hauling?
Could have been averted it appears.
https://www.levernews.com/rail-companies-blocked-safety-rules-before-ohio-derailment/
A-man, I've been following this & chemicals are similar to the stuff used in WWI...from the EPA
https://twitter.com/nickdrom/status/1624389075632373762?s=46&t=0zFHI6vc2w_dfUHIU79jzg
Pretty good thread w/ pics vids (some with strong language)...other area residents are reporting pets / chickens have died. This one is going sideways & the msm isn't touching it.
https://mobile.twitter.com/KanekoaTheGreat/status/1625214707727765504
titsonritz
02-13-23, 14:49
Good thing it didn't happen near any streams or lakes. Oh wait...
I'm seeing where they have found traces in the Ohio river...here's a quick breakdown of events.
https://mobile.twitter.com/NineNewsNancy/status/1625178287369486340
Anyone have a basic idea of what chemicals they were hauling?
According to the EPA:
ethylene glycol monobutyl ether - https://www.fishersci.com/store/msds?partNumber=E1794&productDescription=2-BUTOXYETHANOL+4L&vendorId=VN00033897&countryCode=US&language=en
ethylhexyl acrylate - https://www.fishersci.com/store/msds?partNumber=AC410110010&productDescription=ethylhexyl-acrylate--stabilized-thermo-scientifictrade&vendorId=VN00032119&keyword=true&countryCode=US&language=en
Isobutylene - https://www.airgas.com/msds/001031.pdf
I deal with some pretty nasty stuff as we have clients in the chemical industry, never heard of these. Looks like solvents and hydrocarbons
Coal Dragger
02-13-23, 15:35
LOL.
I hope everyone enjoys this, it will me more and more common unless things change at the big Class 1 RR’s.
Those of us working in the industry keep trying to sound the alarm, but no one will listen. Congress and POTUS just forced a shitty new contract down our throats that will create more problems.
Big RR’s want to cut manpower, cut maintenance, and cut safety all to improve operating ratios to pump up shareholder value and the C suite bonuses. They don’t give a shit about crew members lives, or the public. Remember that. They’ll run trains so large they’re unmanageable and dangerous to save a bit of money. They’ll make us run with throttle restrictions to save fuel and block public crossings even longer (not to mention make everything show up days late). All to chase operating ratios, because no one will hold the RR’s accountable.
If you live within a mile or two of the RR tracks, understand that the trains running through your AO are likely hauling some very very nasty chemicals, flammable liquids, etc. Understand that the rail cars and locomotives are being maintained to the bare minimum required by law, and often get shoved out on the main line out of compliance because RR management doesn’t care. The track itself is also being maintained to the bare minimum. To make it even more fun, the crew operating the train is probably exhausted and hasn’t had a day off or a proper night’s sleep in weeks.
All so that some bitch like Katie Farmer can get a bigger bonus, and Warren Buffet and Wall Street turds can enjoy a higher stock price. These RR’s are enormously profitable so it’s not as if they can’t afford to do a better job. The management chooses not to.
But hey, we can’t have RR employees going on strike! Gotta shove that shit contract down their throats, and not address any problems!
America is getting the RR’s they deserve.
Averageman
02-13-23, 15:36
I cant imagine how legally you can haul that combination of hazardous chemicals together on a single train. Let alone close enough and packaged in such a way that something like this could happen.
From what I have read and from reading conversations here from Rail Road Folks here, it would seem that the Rail Road can't turn enough of a profit without cutting their employees and skipping their infrastructure rebuilds.
Well, they've got a hell of a mess on their hands now.
I bet the Rail Roads are concerned about their bottom line first though.
Edit to add;
I'm very glad Coal Dragger got in here with that, kind of confirms my thoughts.
Perhaps investing in rail roads should be regulated to work more like Bonds rather than stocks. You invest with a assured amount of interest and that's that.
I saw a report that the train was dragging derailed cars 20 miles.
I cant imagine how legally you can haul that combination of hazardous chemicals together on a single train. Let alone close enough and packaged in such a way that something like this could happen.
From what I have read and from reading conversations here from Rail Road Folks here, it would seem that the Rail Road can't turn enough of a profit without cutting their employees and skipping their infrastructure rebuilds.
Well, they've got a hell of a mess on their hands now.
I bet the Rail Roads are concerned about their bottom line first though.
Edit to add;
I'm very glad Coal Dragger got in here with that, kind of confirms my thoughts.
Perhaps investing in rail roads should be regulated to work more like Bonds rather than stocks. You invest with a assured amount of interest and that's that.
You would be surprised how many facilities have really messed up stuff right around the corner from you. I'm not talking about the plants I've designed with tens of thousands of gallons of ethanol or IPA or TEC. I'm talking about Ethelene Oxide, HF, HCL, Heptane etc. Stuff that goes past the EPA regulation, making me have to deal with DHS.
Averageman
02-13-23, 16:00
You would be surprised how many facilities have really messed up stuff right around the corner from you. I'm not talking about the plants I've designed with tens of thousands of gallons of ethanol or IPA or TEC. I'm talking about Ethelene Oxide, HF, HCL, Heptane etc. Stuff that goes past the EPA regulation, making me have to deal with DHS.
No Dude, I was in the Military and got into some stuff one time we called "Dry Cleaning Solvent".
We were using it to clean weapons, come to find out it was highly carcenogenic. We were out there raw doggin it bare handed in the stuff for about a year before someone figured it out.
I know there is some crazy nasty stuff out there.
What kills me is though, how does this get loaded together on the same train to guarentee a chemical weapon if it over turns.
Don't we have someone like a Transportation Director in charge of this stuff?
Coal Dragger
02-13-23, 16:06
I will speak to hazardous materials and train makeup briefly without getting into the weeds too deep.
There are strict rules and requirements on how loaded hazmat and empty hazmat residue cars have to be handled when switching, and for placement within a train including what cars they can be next to and how many buffer cars must be between them and locomotives or even other types of hazmat. For example you can’t place a bunch of highly flammable liquids next to a car full of ammonium nitrate or some other oxidizer, because if there is a derailment and the stuff catches fire you have a fuel source and extra oxygen coming to the party. Which is bad. Very very bad. There are also prohibitions on putting loaded hazmat tank cars for example next to a flat car, or open top gondola car loaded with poles, or pipe, or an otherwise shiftable load that could puncture a tank car in a derailment.
Even when all these rules are followed there is of course still risk. Derail enough stuff and accordion it all sideways into a pile hard enough to rupture tank cars, and buckle hopper cars etc and all bets are off.
This is where RR corporate greed rears its ugly head. Now remember big RR’s have been deferring maintenance, cutting manpower (including the guys and gals who maintain things), and slashing costs. Not because they had to, but just to make even more profit. One of their methods has been to make trains longer and heavier. The one that derailed in Ohio was over 9,000ft long, approaching 10,000ft if memory serves. This saves them crew starts because they furloughed a bunch of conductors and now they can’t staff train crews because a lot of those dudes didn’t come back. Longer trains have a lot more slack in them, especially freight trains of mixed car types. Freight trains like the one that derailed in Ohio will have some cars with cushioned draw bars that might have a foot or more of draw bar travel (spring loaded). There will be a mixture of loaded cars and empties. Tank cars that are loaded will slosh back and forth etc.
So the train handles like shit even when it’s working right. There might be 50 or 60 feet of slack in a train that long. Maybe more. If the crew has to make an emergency brake application, or the train breaks and initiates an emergency brake application the brakes will set on each car sequentially from where ever the air is venting to atmosphere from, usually the control valve of the locomotive. That means until the brake valve on a rolling car gets the brake pipe pressure decrease triggering the brakes to set, it’s rolling along while cars ahead of it are setting emergency brake applications. This creates enough buff force that it can, and will pop a car right off the rail. It’s enough force that a minor derailment can turn into a major derailment.
There is a braking system that can apply all brakes simultaneously and significantly reduce this issue. But RR’s won’t implement it because it costs more $$$. You see a trend here yet?
FromMyColdDeadHand
02-13-23, 16:12
According to the EPA:
ethylene glycol monobutyl ether - https://www.fishersci.com/store/msds?partNumber=E1794&productDescription=2-BUTOXYETHANOL+4L&vendorId=VN00033897&countryCode=US&language=en
ethylhexyl acrylate - https://www.fishersci.com/store/msds?partNumber=AC410110010&productDescription=ethylhexyl-acrylate--stabilized-thermo-scientifictrade&vendorId=VN00032119&keyword=true&countryCode=US&language=en
Isobutylene - https://www.airgas.com/msds/001031.pdf
I deal with some pretty nasty stuff as we have clients in the chemical industry, never heard of these. Looks like solvents and hydrocarbons
First one is a very slow, evaporating, solvent, often used in paint, formulations, but might be used in other kinds of cleaners or degreasers. any chemical that ends in “ENE “ is sort of like saying magnum for ammunition. It has some inherent energy to it due to a double bond. start with “iso” which roughly means a glob of carbon atoms, and you have something that usually is more volatile- ie will evoparate.
“Oxide” is a fun one. Put a metal in front of oxide, and you’re usually talking about something incredibly inert. Think of iron oxide, a.k.a. rust. Put in organic name in front of oxide and that’s when things get spicy a.k.a. ethylene oxide.
That, and the first rule for safety plans in a chemical plant is if you see the plant manager running, run, in the same direction. preferably upwind.
Post 911, if you saw a police car hanging out at a mundane looking plant in the industrial park, it was probably because they were having some thing that someone thought could turn into a nasty surprise. you were not incredibly lucky getting out of the speed trap, they weren’t worried about you.
No Dude, I was in the Military and got into some stuff one time we called "Dry Cleaning Solvent".
We were using it to clean weapons, come to find out it was highly carcenogenic. We were out there raw doggin it bare handed in the stuff for about a year before someone figured it out.
I know there is some crazy nasty stuff out there.
What kills me is though, how does this get loaded together on the same train to guarentee a chemical weapon if it over turns.
Don't we have someone like a Transportation Director in charge of this stuff?
NFPA has some requirements on separating materials, but only dissimilar materials. For instance we have to separate HCL and NaOH, but I can put thousands of gallons of a Class I Flammable solvent right next to thousands of gallons of another Class 1 Flammable solvent right next to a tank of Ethelene Oxide. They are all flammable so they are not dissimilar. EO makes a very big boom.
Consequently, one client almost had a really bad day when they were delivered a pallet of three drums of HCL and one drum of NaOH... on the same pallet... a PH of 3, next to a PH of 11 or more. What could go wrong?
First one is a very slow, evaporating, solvent, often used in paint, formulations, but might be used in other kinds of cleaners or degreasers. any chemical that ends in “ENE “ is sort of like saying magnum for ammunition. It has some inherent energy to it due to a double bond. start with “iso” which roughly means a glob of carbon atoms, and you have something that usually is more volatile- ie will evoparate.
“Oxide” is a fun one. Put a metal in front of oxide, and you’re usually talking about something incredibly inert. Think of iron oxide, a.k.a. rust. Put in organic name in front of oxide and that’s when things get spicy a.k.a. ethylene oxide.
That, and the first rule for safety plans in a chemical plant is if you see the plant manager running, run, in the same direction. preferably upwind.
Post 911, if you saw a police car hanging out at a mundane looking plant in the industrial park, it was probably because they were having some thing that someone thought could turn into a nasty surprise. you were not incredibly lucky getting out of the speed trap, they weren’t worried about you.
Yup. I deal with clients/projects where I'm on the phone with DHS for this very reason. Bad stuff in excess of maximum allowable quantities creating a national security concern.
I saw a report that the train was dragging derailed cars 20 miles.
Here's a vid of the train's wheels / axles on fire before derailment & mentions the 20 miles.
https://mobile.twitter.com/CL4WS_OUT/status/1625205573200318477
This chap explains what happens to the vinyl chloride after it catches on fire.
https://mobile.twitter.com/KanekoaTheGreat/status/1625214710831546370
.
Consequently, one client almost had a really bad day when they were delivered a pallet of three drums of HCL and one drum of NaOH... on the same pallet... a PH of 3, next to a PH of 11 or more. What could go wrong?
I’m guessing bad things with a side of table salt.
Nice.
Stew Peters
@realstewpeters
·
3h
BREAKING: New reports indicate deadly vinyl chloride has contaminated the Ohio River as far as West Virginia, a water source for over 5 million!
Averageman
02-13-23, 17:35
Nice.
Stew Peters
@realstewpeters
·
3h
BREAKING: New reports indicate deadly vinyl chloride has contaminated the Ohio River as far as West Virginia, a water source for over 5 million!
We devolved as a Nation to the point where we pretty much can't even get out of our own way.
ChattanoogaPhil
02-13-23, 19:19
I’m sure Mayor Pete will deal with this railroad situation after he finishes with racist highways.
Nice.
Stew Peters
@realstewpeters
·
3h
BREAKING: New reports indicate deadly vinyl chloride has contaminated the Ohio River as far as West Virginia, a water source for over 5 million!Thank you for posting this, I have a family member in West Virginia that I just called after reading this and he had not heard a word about it.
hotbiggun42
02-13-23, 19:36
LOL.
I hope everyone enjoys this, it will me more and more common unless things change at the big Class 1 RR’s.
Those of us working in the industry keep trying to sound the alarm, but no one will listen. Congress and POTUS just forced a shitty new contract down our throats that will create more problems.
Big RR’s want to cut manpower, cut maintenance, and cut safety all to improve operating ratios to pump up shareholder value and the C suite bonuses. They don’t give a shit about crew members lives, or the public. Remember that. They’ll run trains so large they’re unmanageable and dangerous to save a bit of money. They’ll make us run with throttle restrictions to save fuel and block public crossings even longer (not to mention make everything show up days late). All to chase operating ratios, because no one will hold the RR’s accountable.
If you live within a mile or two of the RR tracks, understand that the trains running through your AO are likely hauling some very very nasty chemicals, flammable liquids, etc. Understand that the rail cars and locomotives are being maintained to the bare minimum required by law, and often get shoved out on the main line out of compliance because RR management doesn’t care. The track itself is also being maintained to the bare minimum. To make it even more fun, the crew operating the train is probably exhausted and hasn’t had a day off or a proper night’s sleep in weeks.
All so that some bitch like Katie Farmer can get a bigger bonus, and Warren Buffet and Wall Street turds can enjoy a higher stock price. These RR’s are enormously profitable so it’s not as if they can’t afford to do a better job. The management chooses not to.
But hey, we can’t have RR employees going on strike! Gotta shove that shit contract down their throats, and not address any problems!
America is getting the RR’s they deserve.
RR workers sabatoging to make thier point?
titsonritz
02-13-23, 19:50
Why aren't the climate alarmist freaking out?
Gathering up the dead fish ain't cleaning up the water, guess it will protect the Bald Eagles.
Citizen Free Press
@CitizenFreePres
·
17h
Dead fish are being pulled from rivers outside East Palestine, Ohio.
The trucks doing the work are labeled EnviroScience, an Ohio-based company that provides "time-sensitive solutions to environmental challenges."
john armond
02-13-23, 20:32
Looks like there were two more derailments today. One in Montgomery TX and the other in Spartanburg SC.
Don’t worry though. The transportation secretary will take care of the trains right after he finishes dealing with all the white construction workers and racist highways.
https://www.foxnews.com/media/buttigieg-white-construction-workers-taking-jobs-communities-color
Sidneyious
02-13-23, 21:09
saw this as was reminded of this story, all it needs is a train derailment there as well.
https://www.unmc.edu/publichealth/research/alten/index.html
Coal Dragger
02-13-23, 21:16
RR workers sabatoging to make thier point?
No.
I would try to explain how stupid that is, but I’ve observed over time that you’re not sharp enough to understand. I mean there’s an entire explanation there, and all your stupid ass comes up with is employee sabotage?
I’m sure Mayor Pete will deal with this railroad situation after he finishes with racist highways.
According to his latest press conference he is onto solving the issue of infrastructure contraction crews being too white. Nothing about this derailment or the one in SC or the one in TX
Averageman
02-14-23, 07:49
RR workers sabatoging to make their point?
Highly Doubtful.
These guys are Pro's, they ride these trains everyday. Why would they do that?
The simple answer is, they're telling you the truth about safety and their concerns about employee strength levels.
Had they been allowed to speak to the Press during their contract negotiations everyone in America would be aware how and why this happened.
As it is, they were ignored and here we are.
RR workers sabatoging to make thier point?
That is very insulting. If anything, the railroad executives have been committing the sabotage.
Andy
Crow Hunter
02-14-23, 07:54
No.
I would try to explain how stupid that is, but I’ve observed over time that you’re not sharp enough to understand. I mean there’s an entire explanation there, and all your stupid ass comes up with is employee sabotage?
I have family and friends that have worked the railroad for a long time.
I can vouch for Coal Dragger, there would never be a thought of that. All they want to do is do their job and get home safe. They are well aware of the danger they can pose to everyone around them but when the bosses are making the trains longer and longer and demanding that a computer (PTC) is doing the driving in difficult terrain and on rails that may or may not be up to snuff due to delayed maintenance while cutting crews to the bone. Something has to give.
People who have never worked for the railroad or understand what goes on, have no clue what they are talking about. It is a life that the vast majority of Americans couldn't handle or do. I know I couldn't. (And I have an engineering degree.;) )
Averageman
02-14-23, 09:26
Pete Buttigieg is the Transportation Seretary.
He's more concerned with the diversity of road working crews than multiple train derailments.
Once again the Biden Administration fails.
Pacific5th
02-14-23, 09:37
I saw this story in multiple places, MSM, FB, local news. Not sure how you missed it. Anyways none of us rails are out sabotaging anything. If anything most of are playing by the rules to a a T. You can make managements life miserable if you know your rule book. Anyways I saw somewhere else mention there have been other derailments in the past few days. Before anyone goes and gets there panties in a bunch and starts think something is going on I’ll let you in on a little secret. There are derailments every day everywhere around this country. Most are just very minor though and you will never hear about it.
ChattanoogaPhil
02-14-23, 10:31
After nearly two weeks... the heat on mayor Pete to say something about the derailment in Ohio finally got him out of the closet and on Twitter.
Some folks seem less than impressed with Pete's tweet.
https://i.imgur.com/MuIuQWu.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/KRvAVta.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/xufDfEj.jpg
Averageman
02-14-23, 11:03
Controlled burn my azz.
But it's totally safe to go back and start drinking the water. I wonder what the response would be if this was a Biden +71 instead of a Trump +71 area, our gov is evil.
Melissa ����
@MelissaLMRogers
·
3h
OHIO �� Woman finds all her chickens dead 10 miles from East Palestine, Ohio
#OhioTrainDisaster #OhioRiver
We've had three derailments in our local yard in the last 18-24 months
I'm waiting for the HazMat event. Yard is big and runs right through town maybe 200 yards from our church and mission building
It's not going to be pretty
Sidneyious
02-14-23, 15:13
That is very insulting. If anything, the railroad executives have been committing the sabotage.
Andy
I know a couple RR workers on 2 major usa RR companies and no, one lost a foot because the conductor didnt listen to the radio and another s a repairman for tracks and does some john henry shit and I wouldnt put it past them to get back
The Real Cause of The Ohio Train Derailment?
https://youtu.be/z8mMe42xIko
They should be able to run far on $5 each.
https://www.sciotopost.com/norfolk-southern-offers-25000-to-east-palestine-for-potentially-deadly-train-crash/
Coal Dragger
02-14-23, 20:41
They should be able to run far on $5 each.
https://www.sciotopost.com/norfolk-southern-offers-25000-to-east-palestine-for-potentially-deadly-train-crash/
Railroad claims agents are the scum of the earth.
If you or a loved one are ever involved in a RR related incident: don’t talk to them, don’t allow them on your property, and lawyer up.
Coal Dragger
02-14-23, 20:51
The Real Cause of The Ohio Train Derailment?
https://youtu.be/z8mMe42xIko
That video is painfully stupid, anyone who listens to that moron and takes him seriously is also a moron.
hotbiggun42
02-14-23, 20:53
Dont panic that town voted for the orange man.
titsonritz
02-14-23, 20:57
Dont panic that town voted for the orange man.
Tucker nails it...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HckqNQ9Ci5M
hotbiggun42
02-14-23, 21:21
Tucker nails it...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HckqNQ9Ci5M
The governor of ohio said "We all must leave" then chuckled? What the hell.
No.
I would try to explain how stupid that is, but I’ve observed over time that you’re not sharp enough to understand. I mean there’s an entire explanation there, and all your stupid ass comes up with is employee sabotage?
You literally just laid out the reasons line level workers would be angry enough to retaliate. I’ve read enough reports in my AOR on rail sabotage to know it isn’t C Suite execs committing the sabotage.
Now I’m not saying this event was precipitated by sabotage, but we don’t exclude the possibility until it can be definitively ruled out. This incident is outside my AOR, so I haven’t read a preliminary report on it yet. Hanlon’s Razor and risk management would trend towards critical accident precipitated by a cascading series of failures. That’s how the anatomy of most catastrophic failures play out.
I’ve yet to see a list of MSDS sheets for this train, or whether there were any loaded TIH cars on it. If anyone has a link to that info, I’d love to take a look!
Coal Dragger
02-15-23, 01:30
You literally just laid out the reasons line level workers would be angry enough to retaliate. I’ve read enough reports in my AOR on rail sabotage to know it isn’t C Suite execs committing the sabotage.
Now I’m not saying this event was precipitated by sabotage, but we don’t exclude the possibility until it can be definitively ruled out. This incident is outside my AOR, so I haven’t read a preliminary report on it yet. Hanlon’s Razor and risk management would trend towards critical accident precipitated by a cascading series of failures. That’s how the anatomy of most catastrophic failures play out.
I’ve yet to see a list of MSDS sheets for this train, or whether there were any loaded TIH cars on it. If anyone has a link to that info, I’d love to take a look!
I might want our CEO to grow taste buds in her asshole, but there is no way in hell I’m intentionally sabotaging anything out here. Even for a real asshole who is that mad the risk is just way too high of getting hurt or killed from your own efforts.
Besides, we don’t need to actively sabotage anything; the equipment and track are so poorly maintained it sabotages itself.
Need more evidence of the Banana Republic at work? How much more of this garbage are we willing to take?
https://youtu.be/QvTNm3vwvzw
Coal Dragger
02-15-23, 09:30
I just tied up early this morning and had to set out a bad order car on this trip. We had a warm bearing detector flag our train. Physical inspection turned up a hot bearing on an axle. We’ve been seeing a lot of these lately, this is the second time for me in a 30 day period. My prior 16 years of this I had maybe one every 3-5 years.
Rail cars aren’t getting maintained properly or regularly. That costs money, and requires actual guys and gals who know how to inspect and maintain cars to be employed doing that… which also costs money. Which eats into the precious net profits and therefore operating ratio, which means less bonuses for the C suite. So screw that!
When one of these bearings totally fails a derailment happens pretty much 100% of the time, the inside shaft can’t turn freely inside the bearing cup that supports the axle end the truck rests on. At which point it grinds/melts itself off and that side of the axle no longer supports any weight and the truck and car body fall on the wheel. Then bad things happen like the car derails. Or the axle won’t turn at all, the wheels flat spot until there is enough friction to force the axle to rotate and when it comes down on the flat spot at speed there’s enough energy to break the rail and the wheel…. and surprise surprise the car derails.
The only saving grace right now is it is winter time and ambient temps keep the temps down enough in the bad bearings that they don’t fail catastrophically as quickly. This summer when it’s 100 F, it takes no time at all to boil the grease right out a bad roller bearing and the above happens. A few years ago we had a train get popped by the detector and the car derailed before the crew could even get stopped to inspect it.
I might want our CEO to grow taste buds in her asshole, but there is no way in hell I’m intentionally sabotaging anything out here. Even for a real asshole who is that mad the risk is just way too high of getting hurt or killed from your own efforts.
Besides, we don’t need to actively sabotage anything; the equipment and track are so poorly maintained it sabotages itself.
I just tied up early this morning and had to set out a bad order car on this trip. We had a warm bearing detector flag our train. Physical inspection turned up a hot bearing on an axle. We’ve been seeing a lot of these lately, this is the second time for me in a 30 day period. My prior 16 years of this I had maybe one every 3-5 years.
Rail cars aren’t getting maintained properly or regularly. That costs money, and requires actual guys and gals who know how to inspect and maintain cars to be employed doing that… which also costs money. Which eats into the precious net profits and therefore operating ratio, which means less bonuses for the C suite. So screw that!
When one of these bearings totally fails a derailment happens pretty much 100% of the time, the inside shaft can’t turn freely inside the bearing cup that supports the axle end the truck rests on. At which point it grinds/melts itself off and that side of the axle no longer supports any weight and the truck and car body fall on the wheel. Then bad things happen like the car derails. Or the axle won’t turn at all, the wheels flat spot until there is enough friction to force the axle to rotate and when it comes down on the flat spot at speed there’s enough energy to break the rail and the wheel…. and surprise surprise the car derails.
The only saving grace right now is it is winter time and ambient temps keep the temps down enough in the bad bearings that they don’t fail catastrophically as quickly. This summer when it’s 100 F, it takes no time at all to boil the grease right out a bad roller bearing and the above happens. A few years ago we had a train get popped by the detector and the car derailed before the crew could even get stopped to inspect it.
Oh I don't doubt you at all and agree your premise is far more likely than not. I'm just pointing out that if you make a large enough group of people angry enough, the most unreasonable individuals in the group bear observation.
Need more evidence of the Banana Republic at work? How much more of this garbage are we willing to take?
https://youtu.be/QvTNm3vwvzw
The level to which the U.S. government has defaulted to "take it on faith", completely ignores the entire history of the U.S. government and the people currently in power. They're trading on credibility they've NEVER had and never will. By forcing the media to back their plays, they've also destroyed the last vestiges of credibility the media had left. Surveys are now pointing to runaway government as the biggest concern of the American people, and they're pretending it isn't true.
The emperor has no clothes, but the fable is no longer viable. Instead of agreeing and admitting the emperor has no clothes, we're just gonna go with nudism and pretend the clothes exist? :rolleyes:
Downhill later today...man, I bet we have fireworks.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/02/east-palestine-town-meeting-scheduled-tonight-derailment-toxic-explosion-overflow-crowd-expected-video/
Coal Dragger,
Did you see the security camera footage of that train farther up the tracks?
Looked like one of the axles was on fire. My first thought was blown out bearing causing heat buildup and eventual melted axle.
Do these machines have per axle thermal triggers? Do they have black boxes to record that type of data for after accident investigations?
Coal Dragger
02-15-23, 12:41
No sensors on each axle. Just wayside detectors that record temperatures, and acoustics as a train goes by. Counts total axles and flags any that are outside the normal average for the rest of the train. Looks for excessive heat, and the telltale growling of bearings shitting the bed.
Detection is only as good as the detectors are maintained, and how many detectors there are and the intervals. So this safety tech is important but it requires… money.
There are also dragging equipment detectors that will flag objects hanging below the acceptable level impacting fixtures on the track like switches and crossings. Normal culprits are air dump hoses hanging too low, but every now and then a dragging equipment detector will be triggered by a wheel that has left the rail and is skipping along on the ties.
RR’s are loathe to spend $$$ on detectors, for example the RR I work for refused to install rock slide detectors in the Wind River Canyon for years, and then one day after a lot of rain a boulder the size of a bus slid off the top of a cliff onto the track. Wyoming State Police tried to call BNSF dispatcher to warn them but no one picked up the phone evidently. Sure as shit a train came around the corner and hit the boulder, promptly derailing into the Bighorn River at flood stage. The crew barely made it out alive before they drowned, and almost died of hypothermia. Not sure what they settled that lawsuit for, but a colleague of mine’s son was on that crew and he’s got more money than he could spend in a lifetime if he isn’t stupid with it. At least according to the son, couldn’t give a number due to non disclosure.
titsonritz
02-15-23, 13:40
Erin Brockovich reacts to EPA response in Ohio train spills (https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2023/02/14/ohio-train-derailment-spill-erin-brockovich-sot-lead-vpx.cnn)
I can't believe anyone would sign off waving the RR company & affiliates any responsibility, much less 300 plus.
https://mobile.twitter.com/wokesocieties/status/1625926642433392670
Coal Dragger
02-15-23, 14:06
The government doesn’t care about a bunch of peasants living in flyover country. Much more important to save face, and shield their generous donors from legal liability.
Submit peons!
The government doesn’t care about a bunch of peasants living in flyover country. Much more important to save face, and shield their generous donors from legal liability.
Submit peons!
This sums it up nicely.
The government doesn’t care about a bunch of peasants living in flyover country. Much more important to save face, and shield their generous donors from legal liability.
Submit peons!
Let's not forget who the largest railroad owner is, and how much he stood to profit from killing the Keystone pipeline expansions. Also, I literally just discovered today that Bill gates is the largest shareholder in Canada's biggest railroad. Gee, I wonder what he plans on hauling in the near future? :confused:
The government doesn’t care about a bunch of peasants living in flyover country. Much more important to save face, and shield their generous donors from legal liability.
Submit peons!
East Palestine is poor, but it and the surrounding counties voted like 70% for Trump. Oh, they're white too. :blink: Not saying those two factors have anything to do with the inaction of the Feds, but.....
I am originally from the Youngstown area, not far from East Palestine. My uncle and his family lived there at one time, been there myself. My uncle is deceased and my aunt and cousins ae no longer in East Palestine. For those from the area the skating rink on Route 14 was owned by my late uncle's FIL decades ago.
And with all predictability in the world, Biden’s wunderkind Mayor Pete blames who? :rolleyes:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/pete-buttigieg-blames-trump-ohio-194108166.html
Yeah, let’s just pretend that Trump controlled Congress in 2015, that he could overturn a law passing by Congress and signed by his predecessor, that the Democrats didn’t have control of Congress and the Executive Branch for the past two years, that ECP brakes would’ve prevented the train from derailing AND that this withdrawn PROPOSED ECP brake regulation from his cabinet level department would’ve even applied to the train that derailed in East Palestine (it would not have applied), or that anything other that Pete’s DOT could’ve stopped Norfolk Southern from busting open the tank cars and burning their contents like complete idiots!
This Biden Administration red herring is longer than any train in the entire history of trains! :mad:
P.S. Let’s not forget that it was also the Biden Administration that forced the rail unions to set aside their safety concerns and sign contracts against their interests, all so he could stop the “red wave”. Goddamned lying pieces of chit! :mad::mad::mad:
Collect water from local streams and force politicians to drink it. Maybe with a little helpful encouragement.
Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk
Coal Dragger
02-15-23, 23:35
And with all predictability in the world, Biden’s wunderkind Mayor Pete blames who? :rolleyes:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/pete-buttigieg-blames-trump-ohio-194108166.html
Yeah, let’s just pretend that Trump controlled Congress in 2015, that he could overturn a law passing by Congress and signed by his predecessor, that the Democrats didn’t have control of Congress and the Executive Branch for the past two years, that ECP brakes would’ve prevented the train from derailing AND that this withdrawn PROPOSED ECP brake regulation from his cabinet level department would’ve even applied to the train that derailed in East Palestine (it would not have applied), or that anything other that Pete’s DOT could’ve stopped Norfolk Southern from busting open the tank cars and burning their contents like complete idiots!
This Biden Administration red herring is longer than any train in the entire history of trains! :mad:
P.S. Let’s not forget that it was also the Biden Administration that forced the rail unions to set aside their safety concerns and sign contracts against their interests, all so he could stop the “red wave”. Goddamned lying pieces of chit! :mad::mad::mad:
The ECP brake system in fairness may very well have prevented some of the cars from derailing due to evenly and immediately applying brake cylinder pressure to every car. If this train had a catastrophic axle failure due to a melted bearing it still would have derailed that car and some others. Then it’s just a game of dumb luck and probabilities that any subsequent cars in the train that would also derail before everything got stopped would also be loaded with hazmat. There is no getting around the benefit of stopping movement on a derailing train as quickly as possible, and with as little buff or draft force acting on the cars as possible.
So the rule change at the behest of RR lobbyists and the blame lies squarely on the executive branch that has rule making authority. Sorry but Lord Cheeto gets to own that one, and any lawmakers who gave in to lobbying pressure to neuter that particular bit of legislation can own it too.
However trying to pretend this is a single party problem is very very naive’, both parties have been taking money and orders from the RR’s for over 150 years now. We have recent examples, and if a person digs deep there will be examples in every administration in the Whitehouse and every Congress regardless of majority party, of our “leaders” sucking that big old RR executive cock and swallowing the load. Then asking for seconds.
Coal Dragger
02-15-23, 23:51
Let's not forget who the largest railroad owner is, and how much he stood to profit from killing the Keystone pipeline expansions. Also, I literally just discovered today that Bill gates is the largest shareholder in Canada's biggest railroad. Gee, I wonder what he plans on hauling in the near future? :confused:
Yep. We have and continue to haul a lot of oil via unit oil trains. It’s no coincidence Uncle Warren wants pipeline projects killed off.
Look up Lac Megantic for a preview of more oil trains.
Uncle Warren (who puts on a nice public persona but has his companies run by Nazi’s… like our own Katie Farmer) is big into industries that have extremely high barriers to entry and near monopoly power in pricing and providing the good or service provided.
RR’s are extremely attractive to a large long term investor. The chances of meaningful competition arising are virtually nonexistent. Government regulations and red tape, and the sheer insane amount of capital to build a competing RR mean the only way into the game is to buy an existing road. Shippers and customers for most of the freight are captive, because other methods are not viable. For example there is no way coal, lumber, grain, iron ore, or other bulk commodities can effectively and cheaply be transported by any other method outside of barges or ships. If your shipper or customer is landlocked, they’re at your mercy. So you can screw them to death.
As a bonus RR labor is subject to the wildly unconstitutional Railway Labor Act so if you’re investing in a RR you have more tools at your disposal to also screw your employees by using all the Congress critters you bought and paid for to shove bad contracts down their throats.
Averageman
02-16-23, 08:41
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEoX5k7Qhrs
I would drink the water.
Riiiight, you are smarter than that, you're not drinking that toxic stuff.
They need some serious Attorney's and independant testing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEoX5k7Qhrs
I would drink the water.
Riiiight, you are smarter than that, you're not drinking that toxic stuff.
They need some serious Attorney's and independant testing.
He needs to prove that by taking his family for a vacation in East Palestine and having a public dinner where they all have a nice big glass of tap water, with refills.
It’s so easy for these cowards to say things like that when they have no skin in the game and refuse to even show up. Then once the pressure is too great, they show up with a phalanx of armed goons, have a closed door meeting and refuse to engage with the local populace.
Cowards, the lot of them.
Now there's a derailment in Detroit. I won't provide a link, there are those that are linkmeister, I'm sure the flood of links will start.
One is an accident, two could be a coincidence, if there's a third one ... , we should worry.
Here ya go Sam
https://mobile.twitter.com/MarioNawfal/status/1626269464072228867
also a big fire...plastics / fertilizer in Kissimmee
https://mobile.twitter.com/AntonioSabatoJr/status/1626272991704236032
Now there's a derailment in Detroit. I won't provide a link, there are those that are linkmeister, I'm sure the flood of links will start.
One is an accident, two could be a coincidence, if there's a third one ... , we should worry.
Isn’t that 4 in the past few days?
Check out the oil slick when vance disrupts the creek bed.
https://mobile.twitter.com/JDVance1/status/1626305927207854089
Adrenaline_6
02-16-23, 14:39
He needs to prove that by taking his family for a vacation in East Palestine and having a public dinner where they all have a nice big glass of tap water, with refills.
It’s so easy for these cowards to say things like that when they have no skin in the game and refuse to even show up. Then once the pressure is too great, they show up with a phalanx of armed goons, have a closed door meeting and refuse to engage with the local populace.
Cowards, the lot of them.
Remember when the exec at Monsanto got ambushed when he said Roundup was safe enough to drink and in an interview, they brought in a glass for him. He got mad and stormed off set. Lying bastards. All of them.
https://mobile.twitter.com/JDVance1/status/1626305927207854089
Check out the oil slick when vance disrupts the creek.
EPA: The water & air are safe.
EPA Chief: We need to determine if it's safe before our workers come in.
https://mobile.twitter.com/HighWireTalk/status/1626312265090695168
Clown show.
Pacific5th
02-16-23, 15:09
Train derailments happen daily, usually not as bad as Palestine. That being said you know how an anti-gunner sounds when they talk about guns and laws? Yea that’s how most of you sound talking about RR’s weather it be derailments or our working conditions.
Averageman
02-16-23, 15:11
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/X9fpr1izwsQ
Isn’t that 4 in the past few days?
I've only heard of two.
hotbiggun42
02-16-23, 15:31
Arent tarin derailments fairly common?
H5N1 is something to be concerned with
Train derailments happen daily, usually not as bad as Palestine. That being said you know how an anti-gunner sounds when they talk about guns and laws? Yea that’s how most of you sound talking about RR’s weather it be derailments or our working conditions. I do appreciate Coal Dragger and you’s input in these threads, because I don’t know shit about the subject.
Arent tarin derailments fairly common?
literally 3 posts ago, and also earlier in this thread that has been mentioned.
The illegitimate administration just told red state Ohio to piss off, no help for you.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-admin-turns-down-ohios-request-disaster-assistance-toxic-derailment
hotbiggun42
02-16-23, 15:51
I do appreciate Coal Dragger and you’s input in these threads, because I don’t know shit about the subject.
literally 3 posts ago, and also earlier in this thread that has been mentioned.
Ah, sometimes i fail at reading every response in a thread. If it happens again just ignore my question.
A couple of articles on the number of derailments this year so far and over the last 30 years. A lot more than I would have thought.
https://www.newsweek.com/more-dozen-trains-have-derailed-us-this-year-1780952
https://www.yahoo.com/now/many-train-derailments-us-2023-172556874.html
Ah, sometimes i fail at reading every response in a thread. If it happens again just ignore my question.
I meant that in a less dickish way than it reads.
hotbiggun42
02-16-23, 16:14
I meant that in a less dickish way than it reads.
Its fine, im not good at social media not even sure why i post here.
Train derailments happen daily, usually not as bad as Palestine. That being said you know how an anti-gunner sounds when they talk about guns and laws? Yea that’s how most of you sound talking about RR’s weather it be derailments or our working conditions.
You’re going to need to be more specific. I think most of us here are condemning the federal response and railroad management, not daily operations or line workers. But if you’re saying it’s no big deal to breach tank cars and light carcinogenic chemicals on fire in large quantities, feel free to expound on that? :confused:
I hate the regime.
Murray ����
@Rothbard1776
·
3h
I didn’t realize FEMA stood for:
**** Everyone in Middle America.
https://dailycaller.com/2023/02/16/biden-administration-declines-ohio-aid-disastrous-train-derailment-federal-emergency-management-agency/
The Biden administration turned down Republican Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine’s request for federal disaster assistance after a train derailment in East Palestine caused several hazardous chemicals to be released into the air and water ways, Dan Tierney, DeWine’s press secretary, told the Daily Caller News Foundation.
Coal Dragger
02-16-23, 18:40
You’re going to need to be more specific. I think most of us here are condemning the federal response and railroad management, not daily operations or line workers. But if you’re saying it’s no big deal to breach tank cars and light carcinogenic chemicals on fire in large quantities, feel free to expound on that? :confused:
I mean as long as the RR can dodge any kind of legal liability for it, our management is cool with things catching fire and giving kids cancer. They don’t give a shit.
Averageman
02-16-23, 18:42
I mean as long as the RR can dodge any kind of legal liability for it, our management is cool with things catching fire and giving kids cancer. They don’t give a shit.
The sick laws of economics is if you can avoid paying for it, do so, especially if you're libel.
Edit to add;
Just saw a guy on YouTube throwing rocks in the creek water at Palestine Ohio. The rock hits and an oil slick comes up that slowly settles.
Now if you don't think that's getting in to the water supply....
ChattanoogaPhil
02-16-23, 22:21
According to AAR... MUCH more here: https://www.aar.org/facts-figures
Safety
Between 2000 and 2021, the train accident was down 33%. The rail employee injury rate in 2020 was an all-time low.
More than 99.9% of all hazmat moved by rail reaches its destination without a release caused by a train accident. Between 2012 and 2021, the hazmat accident rate was down 55%.
In a typical year, U.S. freight railroads move around 1.7 billion tons across nearly 140,000-miles of track.
----
1.7B... yikes! That's 5 tons per person in the US.
I'm sure there was some cherry picking of dates and numbers in the stats, but considering the staggering volume of freight handled maybe they don't do such a bad job.
Coal Dragger
02-16-23, 23:01
The AAR is a lobbying organization for big RR’s.
Count them as a large part of the problem.
Coal Dragger
02-17-23, 01:40
Well this is a big surprise… said no rail road employee ever….
https://www.freightwaves.com/news/norfolk-southern-eliminated-key-maintenance-role-in-derailment-region-union-says/amp
Nazi Southern eliminated the guys and gals who maintain the wayside detectors for hot journals.
I really don’t want to be right about this stuff, but dammit the RR’s are so predictable. It’s almost as if they’re begging to have the government kick their dicks in with over regulation. They’ve brought it on themselves. Maybe it’s time to nationalize the big Class 1’s like it’s 1917 again.
Pacific5th
02-17-23, 07:08
You’re going to need to be more specific. I think most of us here are condemning the federal response and railroad management, not daily operations or line workers. But if you’re saying it’s no big deal to breach tank cars and light carcinogenic chemicals on fire in large quantities, feel free to expound on that? :confused:
I was talking more about the sudden armchair RR and hazmat experts along with the conspiracy theory crap that this is part of a plan or a terrorist thing. I mean yes that could definitely happen but this seems to a hot axle issue. The thing is trains derail every day multiple times a day. Usually it’s very minor or what we rails think of minor. That second derailment in MI that has been mentioned on here is a pretty minor derailment for a main line train. The amount of hazmat we carry every day is staggering. Yes it’s upsetting this happened but it’s very rare. The response has issues but I’m not sure what really could have been done different with all things considered.
I do expect these things to happen more frequently though. Trains have gotten exceptionally longer over the past 5 years. When I started 17 years ago to get a train bigger than 8,000ft was rare. Now we are regularly running 10-14,000ft long daily with my record being 16,22xx something feet long. The management is also trying to cut cost where ever possible. For example I recently found out my RR which is short on power already has something like 1000 engines out of service because they are due a 184 or 364 day inspection, yet they want to cut the roundhouse and shop personal even more and cut all OT expenses. Meanwhile they keep putting the screws to us and can hardly hire anyone and to get the ones they have hired they have dropped the requirements and I’m not joking made the tests so easy you can’t fail. It’s scary out here.
john armond
02-17-23, 07:54
So what would all the RR people in this thread say the percentages of accidents are caused by:
Operator error on the part of the train crew
Maintenance issues/errors
Lack of/removal of safety features
Outside factors such as an object (car/tree/boulder etc)
I was talking more about the sudden armchair RR and hazmat experts along with the conspiracy theory crap that this is part of a plan or a terrorist thing. I mean yes that could definitely happen but this seems to a hot axle issue. The thing is trains derail every day multiple times a day. Usually it’s very minor or what we rails think of minor. That second derailment in MI that has been mentioned on here is a pretty minor derailment for a main line train. The amount of hazmat we carry every day is staggering. Yes it’s upsetting this happened but it’s very rare. The response has issues but I’m not sure what really could have been done different with all things considered.
I do expect these things to happen more frequently though. Trains have gotten exceptionally longer over the past 5 years. When I started 17 years ago to get a train bigger than 8,000ft was rare. Now we are regularly running 10-14,000ft long daily with my record being 16,22xx something feet long. The management is also trying to cut cost where ever possible. For example I recently found out my RR which is short on power already has something like 1000 engines out of service because they are due a 184 or 364 day inspection, yet they want to cut the roundhouse and shop personal even more and cut all OT expenses. Meanwhile they keep putting the screws to us and can hardly hire anyone and to get the ones they have hired they have dropped the requirements and I’m not joking made the tests so easy you can’t fail. It’s scary out here.
I don't disagree on most of what you're saying. FWIW, I have trained at SERTC in Pueblo on rail safety, specifically regarding TIH tank car security, and supervise inspectors who inspect them. I also spent several years working at a DoD contracted manufacturing plant and had duties regarding hazmat response for some pretty nasty stuff. I think most people not familiar with RR's would be surprised that just because a tank car is filled with chemicals that could be dangerous under certain conditions, doesn't mean RR's or regulatory agencies require specialized equipment or handling of them. They don't understand that nothing on that particular train was considered to be particularly hazardous, as none of it was classified as a Toxic Inhalation Hazard.
I believe there's a lot that could've been done differently in the response though. Just because a chemical isn't categorized as TIH that might kill you outright if mishandled, doesn't mean it's safe to inhale or ingest. I find it difficult to believe the first option in this case was to burn it or bury it, just because actual hazmat cleanup is expensive? It's not like this train derailed out in the boonies. It's literally right there in the town. So natural dispersion and filtration aren't going to be able to reduce the PPM down to safe levels in this case. I believe Norfolk Southern figured it would be easier to throw some pocket change at the poors and take the cheapest way out, then collect the insurance check on the back end knowing the poors wouldn't be able to afford a costly battle once the cancers and pulmonary issues developed many years down the road?
Regardless, the Biden Administration LOVES to preach how they're always looking out for low and middle income Americans. Not being a heartless bastard, I think they or any other Administration should. But they're not walking the talk in general, and definitely not here specifically. I was pretty harsh on Governor Abbott's Uvalde response, and I don't think I'm being overly critical of NS and the .gov's response here. I just don't think anyone would be happy about officials and company agents tossing around the word "safe", when they just disposed of thousands of gallons of this stuff in our back yards. :(
https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/6338
https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/8846
https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/8255
https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/7636
https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/8133
Keep in mind burning these can create harmful byproduct chemicals such as:
https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/6371
https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/313
OSHA exposure limit tables:
https://www.osha.gov/annotated-pels/table-z-1
Averageman
02-17-23, 10:35
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UT7QtpR2YZU
Benzine or Bensine residue?
Honestly a small time Mayor isn't equipped to handle this. They need independant testing and as many Attorney's as they can haul to the Courthouse.
I wonder if the Biden guy who offered to drink the water wants some of that out of the creek?
IMHO, if this situation happened in a place like Martha’s Vineyard ( $$$$$$$$$$$$) the Federal government’s response would have been totally different. IMHO, all citizens of East Palestine and the surrouding area should unite, lawyer up and file a class action lawsuit against the train company and anyone or government agency giving misinformation related to this accident. Do you really trust the train company and Joe Biden and his Democrat Party run federal government agencies?? LOL !!!!! I am located 244 miles southwest of East Palestine, Ohio and G&R Tactical is located 66 miles southwest of East Palestine, Ohio
Averageman
02-17-23, 13:52
IMHO, if this situation happened in a place like Martha’s Vineyard ( $$$$$$$$$$$$) the Federal government’s response would have been totally different. IMHO, all citizens of East Palestine and the surrouding area should unite, lawyer up and file a class action lawsuit against the train company and anyone or government agency giving misinformation related to this accident.
The Train Company has already sent down a team of attorney's with documents to absolve them of any responcability. Some of this was straight up legit, but others were getting the papers signed under the idea that the homeowner was getting enviromentle testing. The Ohio Governor and the East Palestine Mayor got wind of this and the responce from the Rail Road was , ... Opp's we had them sign the wrong paperwork.
Snakes gotta snake afterall.
The_War_Wagon
02-17-23, 16:46
IMHO, if this situation happened in a place like Martha’s Vineyard ( $$$$$$$$$$$$) the Federal government’s response would have been totally different. IMHO, all citizens of East Palestine and the surrouding area should unite, lawyer up and file a class action lawsuit against the train company and anyone or government agency giving misinformation related to this accident. Do you really trust the train company and Joe Biden and his Democrat Party run federal government agencies?? LOL !!!!! I am located 244 miles southwest of East Palestine, Ohio and G&R Tactical is located 66 miles southwest of East Palestine, Ohio
Plenty of libtards on the PA side - they put Uncle Festerman & Bernie Klinefeld in office, after all!
p.s. - I'm less than 30 minutes from this spill, in McKees Rocks, PA for the moment.
The illegitimate administration just told red state Ohio to piss off, no help for you.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-admin-turns-down-ohios-request-disaster-assistance-toxic-derailment
Thank you brother for keeping up the "good fight". The election of 2020 will ALWAYS be illegitimate to me, and I don't give a damn what fire that draws from the Left or our own GOPe shills. Shitstain Biden should NOT be in the White House.
And yes, had that happened in Detroit of Philadelphia? My God, katey-bar the door, it'd be a damn near war crime.
Well this is a big surprise… said no rail road employee ever….
https://www.freightwaves.com/news/norfolk-southern-eliminated-key-maintenance-role-in-derailment-region-union-says/amp
Nazi Southern eliminated the guys and gals who maintain the wayside detectors for hot journals.
I really don’t want to be right about this stuff, but dammit the RR’s are so predictable. It’s almost as if they’re begging to have the government kick their dicks in with over regulation. They’ve brought it on themselves. Maybe it’s time to nationalize the big Class 1’s like it’s 1917 again.
As long as the "Big Guy" gets 10% it's all cool. :rolleyes:
Plenty of libtards on the PA side - they put Uncle Festerman & Bernie Klinefeld in office, after all!
p.s. - I'm less than 30 minutes from this spill, in McKees Rocks, PA for the moment.
Buddy and I went to a bar there 30 years ago to pick up chicks!
Thought this was a good one.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230218/67d4f32aa2199e006cde25f7b2a85131.jpg
Sent from my SM-A125U using Tapatalk
So FEMA tells Ohio to piss off...DJT announces he's headed to EP & hours later FEMA has a change of heart & now wants to help 2 weeks later.
FJB
Coal Dragger
02-17-23, 22:39
As long as the "Big Guy" gets 10% it's all cool. :rolleyes:
Hunter probably has a big bag of cash to go pick up that has a prancing black horse on it…
This CNN reporter really pressed the EPA chief for answers and gets nothing but a word salad. Another diversity hire that is in way over his head. This administration is corrupt and inept from top to bottom.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_5qmXfgGssU
Diamondback
02-18-23, 19:56
This deliberate neglect also reeks of retaliation against "those icky Red District voters"...
This CNN reporter really pressed the EPA chief for answers and gets nothing but a word salad. Another diversity hire that is in way over his head. This administration is corrupt and inept from top to bottom.
Legitimately they shouldn't even be occupying the White House.
This CNN reporter really pressed the EPA chief for answers and gets nothing but a word salad. Another diversity hire that is in way over his head. This administration is corrupt and inept from top to bottom.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_5qmXfgGssU
Give that EPA chief a glass of water from the tap of one of the houses...see if he drinks it
You can totally trust your government when they tell you the water is safe to drink/
Chuck Callesto
@ChuckCallesto
BREAKING REPORT: Over 1 Million Gallons of CONTAMINATED WATER Has Been Excavated From Ohio Train Derailment Site – State Sen. Michael Rulli warns 'NOT TO DRINK THE WATER or bathe in it'..
MEDIA SILENT...
FromMyColdDeadHand
02-21-23, 23:57
Give that EPA chief a glass of water from the tap of one of the houses...see if he drinks it
I swear that I saw “Erin Bockovich” poppping up in my youtube feed a lot over the weekend….
titsonritz
02-22-23, 23:41
Pothole Pete should be racked, what a ****ing piece of shit...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URfyVgQNPLM
Coal Dragger
02-23-23, 03:04
I am still tremendously amused at the outrage here and everywhere else about this.
Everyone is mad at Pete Buttguy. I get it, he’s doing a shitty job, but he doesn’t run Norfolk Southern or any other Class 1 RR. He’s not responsible for the rot and decay to that infrastructure, RR’s are privately held.
The blame lies squarely with management and boards of directors at all the Class 1 RR’s, and all Congress critters and POTUS’s who’ve let the RR’s get away with all of their bullshit.
Pete Buttguy is useless in a way that only career useless people can be, but there’s not a damn thing he could have realistically done here. He simply lacks the authority to do much.
I am still tremendously amused at the outrage here and everywhere else about this.
Everyone is mad at Pete Buttguy. I get it, he’s doing a shitty job, but he doesn’t run Norfolk Southern or any other Class 1 RR. He’s not responsible for the rot and decay to that infrastructure, RR’s are privately held.
The blame lies squarely with management and boards of directors at all the Class 1 RR’s, and all Congress critters and POTUS’s who’ve let the RR’s get away with all of their bullshit.
Pete Buttguy is useless in a way that only career useless people can be, but there’s not a damn thing he could have realistically done here. He simply lacks the authority to do much.
Not all. I have brought up several cronyism capitalism issues.
https://mobile.twitter.com/realstewpeters/status/1628565947974909953
Environmental scientists headed to Ohio for the clean-up die in a plane crash...
Adrenaline_6
02-23-23, 10:06
I am still tremendously amused at the outrage here and everywhere else about this.
Everyone is mad at Pete Buttguy. I get it, he’s doing a shitty job, but he doesn’t run Norfolk Southern or any other Class 1 RR. He’s not responsible for the rot and decay to that infrastructure, RR’s are privately held.
The blame lies squarely with management and boards of directors at all the Class 1 RR’s, and all Congress critters and POTUS’s who’ve let the RR’s get away with all of their bullshit.
Pete Buttguy is useless in a way that only career useless people can be, but there’s not a damn thing he could have realistically done here. He simply lacks the authority to do much.
I don't think people are gigging him because he should have prevented it. More that he is showing absolute zero interest in finding out what happened to see if this could be prevented in the future and who should be ultimately liable for it. He doing the same thing that Kamala is doing at the border. It's holds a negative connotation and is trying to distance himself from it even though it his job.
Averageman
02-23-23, 12:55
I don't think people are gigging him because he should have prevented it. More that he is showing absolute zero interest in finding out what happened to see if this could be prevented in the future and who should be ultimately liable for it. He doing the same thing that Kamala is doing at the border. It's holds a negative connotation and is trying to distance himself from it even though it his job.
He hasn't a clue as to what to look for, in the first place.
Do I think the Rail Road needs to have stringent safety guide lines, certainly, but I have a feeling that Coal Dragger could line up a list of ten or so improvements that would be much better than Buttigeg could come up with.
But he can't tell you about Pot Holes, Airlines or Bridges and Tunnels. He's avoiding it because he's busy studying up for his exam when he gets grilled by the House in hearings.
All of these folks were chosen for reasons other than their competancy and it clearly shows.
Averageman
02-23-23, 13:00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qebT7wTgG2s
You waited three weeks for this?
He's clueless, of course they can always blame Trump.
I am still tremendously amused at the outrage here and everywhere else about this.
Everyone is mad at Pete Buttguy. I get it, he’s doing a shitty job, but he doesn’t run Norfolk Southern or any other Class 1 RR. He’s not responsible for the rot and decay to that infrastructure, RR’s are privately held.
The blame lies squarely with management and boards of directors at all the Class 1 RR’s, and all Congress critters and POTUS’s who’ve let the RR’s get away with all of their bullshit.
Pete Buttguy is useless in a way that only career useless people can be, but there’s not a damn thing he could have realistically done here. He simply lacks the authority to do much.
I don't think people are gigging him because he should have prevented it. More that he is showing absolute zero interest in finding out what happened to see if this could be prevented in the future and who should be ultimately liable for it. He doing the same thing that Kamala is doing at the border. It's holds a negative connotation and is trying to distance himself from it even though it his job.
This. The reason people are so mad at the Biden Administration isn't because they haven't done anything. It's because they've been skewering "Big Corprorate" as evil and destroying lives for years, and only the Democrats can keep them from enslaving us all!
Except they haven't done jack or shit for two years now to hold Big Corps like Norfolk Southern accountable, this derailment happens and they would have to put some serious effort into even pretending they care about what happens to East Palestine. Except they don't even PRETEND to care! It takes Trump going to East Palestine to get Buttgag off his lazy, personal time taking ass and even show up, and all he can do is complain that Trump had no business going there and only did if for a photo op? Well at least he did a phot op, you did NOTHING!!!
If Buttgag gets there and tries to get in front of a mic to say this is all Trump's fault? I wouldn't be so sure about his personal safety. BTW, the three biggest Norfolk Southern stockholders outside of NS itself, are Vanguard, Blackrock and State Street. All liberal outfits pushing ESG investing. The field for people actually caring about rail safety is WIDE OPEN. There's no one currently doing more than paying lip service to it. Not the Class 1 RR's, not the Biden Administration, Not DOT, Not EPA, not Congress and not investors. The only people who care are the ones who have no power whatsoever to make it happen, like the line employees who were forced by Biden to accept unsafe working conditions, and places like East Palestine. :mad:
titsonritz
02-23-23, 13:06
I am still tremendously amused at the outrage here and everywhere else about this.
Everyone is mad at Pete Buttguy. I get it, he’s doing a shitty job, but he doesn’t run Norfolk Southern or any other Class 1 RR. He’s not responsible for the rot and decay to that infrastructure, RR’s are privately held.
The blame lies squarely with management and boards of directors at all the Class 1 RR’s, and all Congress critters and POTUS’s who’ve let the RR’s get away with all of their bullshit.
Pete Buttguy is useless in a way that only career useless people can be, but there’s not a damn thing he could have realistically done here. He simply lacks the authority to do much.
I don't think anyone believes he responsible for the train wreck, the outrage comes from his indifference of the damage caused by the wreck and the impact it has on the surrounding population. If the shit had happen in a blue part of the country he and the rest of the government would have been all over it. It has been 3 weeks and he nor his boss have been the site until today , he is a disgusting incompetent little weasel incapable of doing his job.
Coal Dragger
02-23-23, 13:54
This. The reason people are so mad at the Biden Administration isn't because they haven't done anything. It's because they've been skewering "Big Corprorate" as evil and destroying lives for years, and only the Democrats can keep them from enslaving us all!
Except they haven't done jack or shit for two years now to hold Big Corps like Norfolk Southern accountable, this derailment happens and they would have to put some serious effort into even pretending they care about what happens to East Palestine. Except they don't even PRETEND to care! It takes Trump going to East Palestine to get Buttgag off his lazy, personal time taking ass and even show up, and all he can do is complain that Trump had no business going there and only did if for a photo op? Well at least he did a phot op, you did NOTHING!!!
If Buttgag gets there and tries to get in front of a mic to say this is all Trump's fault? I wouldn't be so sure about his personal safety. BTW, the three biggest Norfolk Southern stockholders outside of NS itself, are Vanguard, Blackrock and State Street. All liberal outfits pushing ESG investing. The field for people actually caring about rail safety is WIDE OPEN. There's no one currently doing more than paying lip service to it. Not the Class 1 RR's, not the Biden Administration, Not DOT, Not EPA, not Congress and not investors. The only people who care are the ones who have no power whatsoever to make it happen, like the line employees who were forced by Biden to accept unsafe working conditions, and places like East Palestine. :mad:
Don’t be fooled by Trump showing up thinking he would do anything either. He had his chance to reign in the Class 1’s and only gave them more room to shitbag it up.
Don’t be fooled by Trump showing up thinking he would do anything either. He had his chance to reign in the Class 1’s and only gave them more room to shitbag it up.
As I stated, he did one more thing than Biden or Buttgag did. Even water & McDonalds is more than they've done, which is absolutely nothing at all.
The train derailment in East Palestine Ohio was 100% preventable. ~ Jennifer Homendy NTSB Chair
https://mobile.twitter.com/FarmGirlCarrie/status/1628871113320308736
If I lived there I would have already left for good.
titsonritz
02-23-23, 21:26
If I lived there I would have already left for good.
We were talking about that at lunch today, hell yeah I'd be gone.
Pacific5th
02-24-23, 02:27
Just a FYI but under Trump several rules were changed for the RR. The one that pops in off the top of my head involves air test. A Class 1 air test not only test the air brake system but safety alliances such as hand brakes, wheel integrity, stuff hanging off car, among other things. It used to be a train “off air” meaning the air brake system not charged or under 60lbs would need a class 1 inspection after 4 hours. Crews and mechanical forces can find a lot wrong with a train doing that test which is why the RR’s petitioned and had it changed to 24 hours. Lots of stuff can slip through the cracks without those inspection. These tests are a pain in the ass for the RR’s cause it means more money spent on I left jobs and repairs. Now a hot bearing probably would not be found in these tests cause they were most likely cold by that time but like I said lots of issues could be found.
I bought a pair of shoes when Trump was in office. Yesterday my shoelace broke. Gotdang orange skinned b@$t@rd, its all his fault...
Averageman
02-24-23, 08:01
Just a FYI but under Trump several rules were changed for the RR. The one that pops in off the top of my head involves air test. A Class 1 air test not only test the air brake system but safety alliances such as hand brakes, wheel integrity, stuff hanging off car, among other things. It used to be a train “off air” meaning the air brake system not charged or under 60lbs would need a class 1 inspection after 4 hours. Crews and mechanical forces can find a lot wrong with a train doing that test which is why the RR’s petitioned and had it changed to 24 hours. Lots of stuff can slip through the cracks without those inspection. These tests are a pain in the ass for the RR’s cause it means more money spent on I left jobs and repairs. Now a hot bearing probably would not be found in these tests cause they were most likely cold by that time but like I said lots of issues could be found.
Here's the thing about all of that.
If a Politican can look you in the eye and say "It's the former President's fault he did X". Well, if he did some horrible thing, why didn't you fix it? You knew about it, your "Johnny on the Spot" with the knowledge of his indiscretition, why didn't you do something, it is your job to fix these things if they are issues.
I hate to say it but this is exactly one of the reasons Professional Organizations and Trade Unions were organizied. Worker and Public safety.
If you don't want to hear the safety concerns of the People doing the job, what kind of a Leader are you?
If your excuse for your lack of action is, "The other guy did it first." You are Weak, too weak to lead.
Biden undid half of Trump's Legacy with a half dozen signatures on a half dozen documents, so why didn't he fix the rail roads, after all you now admit you knew about it.
Preliminary NTSB report, for those interested.
https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Pages/RRD23MR005.aspx?mibextid=kdkkhi
Coal Dragger
02-24-23, 12:32
What a clown show Norfolk Southern is.
Their standards for warm bearing critical temperature thresholds are just stupid. Waiting until the bearing is over 200F above ambient temperature to call it critical is only done to save money by reducing car handling and crew overtime.
My last two bad order hot bearings that got set out we were called by the detector desk (evidently NS must not have a detector desk), and ordered to stop and inspect the car in question. In both instances the bearing in question was under 115F, the last one it was only 78F but was over 50F higher than the average temp of the other bearings. This was considered critical and the cars had to be set out immediately, and we could operate at no greater than 10 MPH to the next available location to set the car out.
Waiting until the bearings get as hot or display as wide of a temp difference as NS allows gives virtually no time at all to catch a hot bearing before failure.
Gotta save that $$$.
titsonritz
02-24-23, 13:07
Here's the thing about all of that.
If a Politican can look you in the eye and say "It's the former President's fault he did X". Well, if he did some horrible thing, why didn't you fix it? You knew about it, your "Johnny on the Spot" with the knowledge of his indiscretition, why didn't you do something, it is your job to fix these things if they are issues.
I hate to say it but this is exactly one of the reasons Professional Organizations and Trade Unions were organizied. Worker and Public safety.
If you don't want to hear the safety concerns of the People doing the job, what kind of a Leader are you?
If your excuse for your lack of action is, "The other guy did it first." You are Weak, too weak to lead.
Biden undid half of Trump's Legacy with a half dozen signatures on a half dozen documents, so why didn't he fix the rail roads, after all you now admit you knew about it.
^^^Exactly. Xiden makes a point to undo all of Trumps positive accomplishments but leaves his "shit" stuff in place then tries to blame Trump. Deflection is not a leadership quality you POS. Let's go Brandon.
Pacific5th
02-24-23, 13:26
Here's the thing about all of that.
If a Politican can look you in the eye and say "It's the former President's fault he did X". Well, if he did some horrible thing, why didn't you fix it? You knew about it, your "Johnny on the Spot" with the knowledge of his indiscretition, why didn't you do something, it is your job to fix these things if they are issues.
I hate to say it but this is exactly one of the reasons Professional Organizations and Trade Unions were organizied. Worker and Public safety.
If you don't want to hear the safety concerns of the People doing the job, what kind of a Leader are you?
If your excuse for your lack of action is, "The other guy did it first." You are Weak, too weak to lead.
Biden undid half of Trump's Legacy with a half dozen signatures on a half dozen documents, so why didn't he fix the rail roads, after all you now admit you knew about it.
I get what you’re saying but in the scheme of things I doubt anyone ever bothered to bring up something like class 1 air brake tests to President Biden. Point is it never should have happened in the first place except the Class 1 RR’s wanted to save a few bucks on time and cost for employees to do these tests and to save even more by not fixing the issues found.
Anyways RR’s have been trying hard to cut costs since the minute they started up and many different administrations have let them do whatever they want. Both presidents, the FRA and all the class 1 RR’s have blame here.
SomeOtherGuy
02-24-23, 14:45
Wife's cousin worked for several years as a track maintenance supervisor for either NS or CSX, can't remember which one. Good starting job with his BS in engineering. Quit fairly early because it seemed like his crew and co-workers were constantly coming down with cancer. Specifically cancer. This is pre-covid.
Anyways RR’s have been trying hard to cut costs since the minute they started up and many different administrations have let them do whatever they want. Both presidents, the FRA and all the class 1 RR’s have blame here.
Pretty much all corporate businesses try to cut costs and maximize profit. Is there something about railroads that makes this more severe than elsewhere? I don't see the same frequency and severity of industrial accidents with airlines, oil refineries, other heavy manufacturing (e.g. steel mills), US-flagged maritime, privately owned nuclear plants, etc. Are railroads just not regulated as much? Are they more corrupt for some reason?
She has a point.
https://slaynews.com/news/this-was-100-preventable-biden-official-overrules-pete-buttigieg-enough-with-the-politics/
It's pretty rare in a critical incident that you can point to a single point of failure as THE cause. It's usually an cascading series of failures and events where no one in proximity to the chain of events intervenes. There's plenty of blame to go around.
titsonritz
02-24-23, 16:04
She has a point.
https://slaynews.com/news/this-was-100-preventable-biden-official-overrules-pete-buttigieg-enough-with-the-politics/
It's pretty rare in a critical incident that you can point to a single point of failure as THE cause. It's usually an cascading series of failures and events where no one in proximity to the chain of events intervenes. There's plenty of blame to go around.
Safety is no accident.
Averageman
02-24-23, 17:25
I get what you’re saying but in the scheme of things I doubt anyone ever bothered to bring up something like class 1 air brake tests to President Biden. Point is it never should have happened in the first place except the Class 1 RR’s wanted to save a few bucks on time and cost for employees to do these tests and to save even more by not fixing the issues found.
Anyways RR’s have been trying hard to cut costs since the minute they started up and many different administrations have let them do whatever they want. Both presidents, the FRA and all the class 1 RR’s have blame here.
Any way you look at it, you guy's were getting screwed on your recent contrct negotiations.
Now, I'm no expert, but I've juggled a few running chainsaws as a Manager. If I'm in charge of looking out for transportation in the United States, I'm sticking my nose in to your business and talking to some people. If someone brings up safety, I'm getting involved.
Thats being proactive, not reactive.
If this Muppet could show in anyway besides "Not hiring White Work Crews." where he has been proactive on anything related to let say,
The Airline Mess.
The Railroads.
The Docks and ship loading and unloading.
I would be dramatically surprised, Buttiege has an amazing capacity to turn a Turd in to every Ho-Ho he touches.
The_War_Wagon
02-24-23, 17:27
'Bout a half hour north of me - I haven't grown any gills or a 3rd eye yet!
The_War_Wagon
02-24-23, 17:28
https://i.ibb.co/JmN8hMk/buttplug.jpghttps://i.ibb.co/T2DJ34t/buttplug1.jpghttps://i.ibb.co/sR9Tt3H/wrong-way-loser.jpg
Sidneyious
02-24-23, 18:13
This comes from Paul J Watsons website so take it for what it is.
"Four scientists and the pilot of the plane, who all worked at the Center for Toxicology and Environmental Health, are dead after the twin-engine plane crashed shortly after take off from Bill and Hillary Clinton National Airport in Little Rock, Arkansas."
https://summit.news/2023/02/24/26368/
Coal Dragger
02-24-23, 18:19
Wife's cousin worked for several years as a track maintenance supervisor for either NS or CSX, can't remember which one. Good starting job with his BS in engineering. Quit fairly early because it seemed like his crew and co-workers were constantly coming down with cancer. Specifically cancer. This is pre-covid.
Pretty much all corporate businesses try to cut costs and maximize profit. Is there something about railroads that makes this more severe than elsewhere? I don't see the same frequency and severity of industrial accidents with airlines, oil refineries, other heavy manufacturing (e.g. steel mills), US-flagged maritime, privately owned nuclear plants, etc. Are railroads just not regulated as much? Are they more corrupt for some reason?
Working with creosote treated RR ties is probably not great for one’s long term health.
Averageman
02-24-23, 18:33
Working with creosote treated RR ties is probably not great for one’s long term health.
I was going to say.
There is no way I'd stay in that town.
Walk away and start over. New job, new school, somewhere else.
Averageman
02-24-23, 19:21
There is no way I'd stay in that town.
Walk away and start over. New job, new school, somewhere else.
Well if you've just made your final house payment, that might be difficult to choke down.
This is essentially the end of that community, no onle will live there, it will be the new "Love Canal."
But you should feel good about that, the Transportation Secretary is Gay and he's eliminating White Guys from Government contracts, see, ther is an upside to everything.
Coal Dragger
02-24-23, 19:28
There is no way I'd stay in that town.
Walk away and start over. New job, new school, somewhere else.
…. no new job needed.
After Norfolk Southern pays out you’d never have to work again in your life unless you wanted to.
Averageman
02-24-23, 19:43
…. no new job needed.
After Norfolk Southern pays out you’d never have to work again in your life unless you wanted to.
You think the pay-out will be that high?
Coal Dragger
02-24-23, 21:40
You think the pay-out will be that high?
Eventually yes.
NS will eventually settle out of court to avoid admitting any wrongdoing and limit case law being created that can be used against them in the future.
If that means everyone within a 5 mile radius gets a 7 figure settlement, then that is what they’ll do.
They’re busy right now figuring out how much this will cost to make it go away with as little fanfare as possible going forward.
Coal Dragger
02-24-23, 23:21
In other news the NTSB pretty well ruled out wrongdoing by the crew of the train.
I can guarantee that Norfolk Southern management officials and executives are Uber pissed about that. Not having a crew to lay blame on is anathema to RR management. They’re probably going to serve them with investigation notices anyway, and try to fire them. ‘Tis the RR way!
After reading your responses, I now know where the term "rail roaded" came from.
Coal Dragger
02-25-23, 07:59
Yep it’s still a thing.
Some DiLorenzo articles on parts of how we got here.
https://www.independent.org/news/article.asp?id=108
The Truth About the "Robber Barons" | Mises Institute
https://mises.org/library/truth-about-robber-barons
Eventually yes.
NS will eventually settle out of court to avoid admitting any wrongdoing and limit case law being created that can be used against them in the future.
If that means everyone within a 5 mile radius gets a 7 figure settlement, then that is what they’ll do.
They’re busy right now figuring out how much this will cost to make it go away with as little fanfare as possible going forward.
I wonder if they actually pay.
https://railroads.dot.gov/newsroom/press-releases/biden-administration-announces-over-368-million-grants-improve-rail-0
Criminal malfeasance by our government.
Chuck Callesto
@ChuckCallesto
BREAKING REPORT: The Air in East Palestine IS TOXIC - Scientists find 'higher than normal' concentrations of NINE potentially harmful chemicals..
Carnegie Mellon University and Texas A&M scientists conducted INDEPENDENT air quality tests..
Several reports of altered voices and rashes that look like CHEMICAL BURNS have also emerged...
Averageman
03-01-23, 07:25
Criminal malfeasance by our government.
Chuck Callesto
@ChuckCallesto
BREAKING REPORT: The Air in East Palestine IS TOXIC - Scientists find 'higher than normal' concentrations of NINE potentially harmful chemicals..
Carnegie Mellon University and Texas A&M scientists conducted INDEPENDENT air quality tests..
Several reports of altered voices and rashes that look like CHEMICAL BURNS have also emerged...
And this is why you needed Independant Air Quality Tests, I hve no doubt the ground and water tests will show the same.
You don't get burns on your skin unless nature is telling you to get out of Dodge,
Report on the testing, not seeing official report yet on what they found but I sure don't trust the EPA.
https://www.wkbn.com/news/local-news/east-palestine-train-derailment/researchers-using-powerful-equipment-to-test-air-quality-in-east-palestine/
Averageman
03-01-23, 09:13
Report on the testing, not seeing official report yet on what they found but I sure don't trust the EPA.
https://www.wkbn.com/news/local-news/east-palestine-train-derailment/researchers-using-powerful-equipment-to-test-air-quality-in-east-palestine/
The accuracy of the EPA testing was called in to play the first day when out of date testing equipment was showing negative results.
How did they know?
Negative tests from puddles of chemicals.
The EPA was short shifting all these Americans and immeadiatly calling it a nonissue.
Averageman
03-01-23, 10:15
Good Video rundowwn from the residence perspective.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWy7y3pxSwk
This is the new "Love Canal."
titsonritz
03-10-23, 00:48
AOC throwing Brandon, Buttjudge and the EPA under the train. She's not wrong though.
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1633875358263934984
Another train derailment:
https://www.foxnews.com/us/train-derails-25-cars-montana-spilling-unconfirmed-contents
How many now? Are they still considered and reported as accidents? I've never been a tin foil hat wearing type, but after a couple of train derailments, it started to smell.
^^ Stop being a conspiracy theorist^^ These are all just coincidences.......
Coal Dragger
04-02-23, 16:06
No conspiracy needed. This is pretty common with Montana Rail Link.
Getting more and more common with all the large and small roads in the country. Cutting costs to pump up stock prices by making operating ratios look good is the name of the game.
That means bare minimum maintenance on everything, and that has been a consistent trend for the past 5-7 years depending on the RR and when they officially or unofficially adopted “Precision Scheduled Railroading”… which is ironically not precise, scheduled, nor railroading… it’s just hacking and slashing manpower, equipment, safety initiatives, and maintenance budgets.
Now all the equipment and infrastructure is showing the neglect. Get used to it, it will likely get worse before it improves.
This time of year is particularly challenging up north because the ground is starting to thaw out. The tracks are sitting on squishy mud holes in a lot of places. We have slow orders popping up everywhere, it will get worse all through spring and maybe get resolved late summer or early fall in places that don’t see a lot of precipitation. My road will probably dedicate the bare minimum resources to fix all the shit that is wrong with the track. According guys I know in Maintenance of Way they’re not being allowed OT, but the backlog of jacked up shit is enormous.
The NTSB and FRA don’t seem to have the motivation regardless of who is in power to actually regulate big RR’s and Congress and POTUS don’t seem to be interested in changing the statutes to impose meaningful fines for violations or increase enforcement.
So we get the RR’s we deserve. I’m glad the town I live in is at greater elevation and 20+ miles from the nearest major rail line (that I work on), and not within about 5-6 miles of a minor one that sees maybe one train a week and only goes 10 MPH.
As for me and my conductor on any given trip if there’s a bunch of hazmat on the train and it goes on the ground and I suspect there is a spill my ass is heading to the nearest high ground that is upwind. If I have to hike miles to get there so be it. If I don’t have cell service to let first responders know what’s on the manifest too bad for them. We don’t get paper copies of manifests with MSDS anymore to save $$$ on paper, because **** first responders, so there won’t be shit on those abandoned locomotives except what I can write on a note in a couple of minutes before I step off assuming I’m able.
Averageman
04-02-23, 16:16
No conspiracy needed. This is pretty common with Montana Rail Link.
Getting more and more common with all the large and small roads in the country. Cutting costs to pump up stock prices by making operating ratios look good is the name of the game.
That means bare minimum maintenance on everything, and that has been a consistent trend for the past 5-7 years depending on the RR and when they officially or unofficially adopted “Precision Scheduled Railroading”… which is ironically not precise, scheduled, nor railroading… it’s just hacking and slashing manpower, equipment, safety initiatives, and maintenance budgets.
Now all the equipment and infrastructure is showing the neglect. Get used to it, it will likely get worse before it improves.
This time of year is particularly challenging up north because the ground is starting to thaw out. The tracks are sitting on squishy mud holes in a lot of places. We have slow orders popping up everywhere, it will get worse all through spring and maybe get resolved late summer or early fall in places that don’t see a lot of precipitation. My road will probably dedicate the bare minimum resources to fix all the shit that is wrong with the track. According guys I know in Maintenance of Way they’re not being allowed OT, but the backlog of jacked up shit is enormous.
The NTSB and FRA don’t seem to have the motivation regardless of who is in power to actually regulate big RR’s and Congress and POTUS don’t seem to be interested in changing the statutes to impose meaningful fines for violations or increase enforcement.
So we get the RR’s we deserve. I’m glad the town I live in is at greater elevation and 20+ miles from the nearest major rail line (that I work on), and not within about 5-6 miles of a minor one that sees maybe one train a week and only goes 10 MPH.
As for me and my conductor on any given trip if there’s a bunch of hazmat on the train and it goes on the ground and I suspect there is a spill my ass is heading to the nearest high ground that is upwind. If I have to hike miles to get there so be it. If I don’t have cell service to let first responders know what’s on the manifest too bad for them. We don’t get paper copies of manifests with MSDS anymore to save $$$ on paper, because **** first responders, so there won’t be shit on those abandoned locomotives except what I can write on a note in a couple of minutes before I step off assuming I’m able.
Sweet Jesus
Sounds like Atlas Shrugged...
Pacific5th
04-02-23, 16:31
One that the news cycle missed recently was a Union Pacific train in CA. 180 car loaded ore train. Broke apart on a steep 2% grade. Somehow the head 55 cars and engines got away and took off. Crew was able to jump off. Train hit 118mph and supposedly possibly 150mph before it left a curve. Google UP Cima derailment for more info.
But derailments happen. It’s no conspiracy just the news media picking up on them after they finally blew one up in a town.
Coal Dragger
04-02-23, 17:21
180 car loaded iron ore train. Probably 142-143 tons per operative brake.
Who the hell thinks it’s a good idea to operate a loaded unit train that is in excess of 25,000 tons on a near 2% grade?
Madness, pure madness.
Pacific5th
04-02-23, 19:09
180 car loaded iron ore train. Probably 142-143 tons per operative brake.
Who the hell thinks it’s a good idea to operate a loaded unit train that is in excess of 25,000 tons on a near 2% grade?
Madness, pure madness.
Damn thing was 2x2x1. I’ve taken a loaded grained down the 2.2 on Stevens pass multiple times with 3x3x2 and it was fine. Can’t imagine taking an even heavier train with half the power down a 2% like that. That’s a controlled runaway no matter how you look at it.
Coal Dragger
04-02-23, 19:38
WTF!
3X3X2 gives you enough dynamic that even if you have to cycle brake, you should have enough to check your acceleration rate until air builds back up. We had some 2X2X1 coal sets with 135 cars running on the Black Hills and those things worked great at 19,200 tons, but our grades are just under 1%.
I’m going to venture a guess that even a 3X3X2 iron ore train on a 2% that is over 25,000 tons could still get really really sporty if that set had shitty air brakes. Those cars are short, so despite it being 180 cars I’ll guess it was still under 7000ft long. Once that thing tops out it’s coming for you with a vengeance.
No conspiracy needed. This is pretty common with Montana Rail Link.
Is it true there are over 400 de-railments / year? If so, these are just being emphasized because politics against the idiot / homo running TRANPO.
Coal Dragger
04-02-23, 20:39
That’s probably an underestimate. Cars go on the ground in yards all the time and simply get re-railed.
Mainline derailments are probably around 400 per year if I had to guess. Bigger heavier trains with more cars, and therefore more slack and poorer performing air brakes just make more cars come off before everything stops. Some of that will be hazmat, and some of that hazmat is seriously nasty stuff.
I don’t see this as being blown out of proportion so much as having some light shed on a problem that has gotten progressively worse. Not just in safety of the public, and RR employees, but also in piss poor performance for rail customers. The big class 1’s have effectively abandoned their heir common carrier obligations. This should infuriate American taxpayers, who’s forbears granted these RR’s extraordinary powers and land grants in the 1800’s with the understanding that they would maintain an acceptable level of service for anyone who wanted to ship something with them. Now the big RR’s pretty much tell customers to eat a pile of dicks, you’ll get your shipment or get your cars to load, get your loads pulled etc when we’re good and damn ready if we want to, but you’re paying either way.
That’s probably an underestimate. Cars go on the ground in yards all the time and simply get re-railed.
Mainline derailments are probably around 400 per year if I had to guess. Bigger heavier trains with more cars, and therefore more slack and poorer performing air brakes just make more cars come off before everything stops. Some of that will be hazmat, and some of that hazmat is seriously nasty stuff.
I don’t see this as being blown out of proportion so much as having some light shed on a problem that has gotten progressively worse. Not just in safety of the public, and RR employees, but also in piss poor performance for rail customers. The big class 1’s have effectively abandoned their heir common carrier obligations. This should infuriate American taxpayers, who’s forbears granted these RR’s extraordinary powers and land grants in the 1800’s with the understanding that they would maintain an acceptable level of service for anyone who wanted to ship something with them. Now the big RR’s pretty much tell customers to eat a pile of dicks, you’ll get your shipment or get your cars to load, get your loads pulled etc when we’re good and damn ready if we want to, but you’re paying either way.
Thanks. Good to hear someone’s perspective who actually works in the industry.
I am 100% train ignorant. Other than getting pissed when they block me during rush hour or security issues with trains originating in Mexico, carrying products being used to mule drugs out of that shithole. Ridiculous part is WE had to spend the $$ to improve security.
Coal Dragger
04-02-23, 23:12
The ****ery with exchange of cars and engines with Mexico is hard to believe. I know some dudes that have worked down there, and it’s way way bad. Stuff getting smuggled, illegals hiding in crevices of freight cars, all sorts of dumb shit.
Not to mention the fact the Mexicans are incapable of not stealing all the equipment possible off of interchanged locomotives, and seemingly covering every other available surface in filth of some description.
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