View Full Version : New S&W 9mm carbine
No interest in such things but the one and only JM covers the new blaster:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJjlJBv0VUk
Looks like a fun range toy for some; modular enough for easy transport, and nice magazine compatability for M&P pistol owners. Reminds me of the keltec foldable (not sure the model) which takes glock mags that I saw once. To each his own.
A quick glance at it reminds me of the Kel Tec Sub-2000.
Would someone PLEASE make something like this or the KT in, say, 10mm or even better 357Sig?
A quick glance at it reminds me of the Kel Tec Sub-2000.
Would someone PLEASE make something like this or the KT in, say, 10mm or even better 357Sig?
M&P Sub2000 for sure. Problem with these in 10mm or .357 SIG is they would batter themselves apart. 9mm is probably the upper limit for blowback plastic fantastic.
Neat toy, but nothing I'd be serious with. I'd rather pop the upper off of my 9mm AR and bag them together.
That said, Jerry can shoot anything. I bet he can group a Hi Point at 100 yards.
We've all seen the conversion uppers to make a pistol grip frame into a carbine of sorts. Mechtech comes to mind. https://mechtechsys.com/
MP5 is the primary option of course.
But, is S&W paving the way making the first name brand yet affordable full PCC here? Are the other popular otc brands like Sig, Colt, CZ, Ruger and Glock going to follow suit?
...but does it take Glock mags? lol
Mrgunsngear also recently reviewed it:
https://youtu.be/CkmOXCE7ioA
I have no use for a PCC. If it is shoulder fired, it had better be a rifle cartridge.
Even if functionally perfect. It's boring after 2 clips of ammo! I'm not a full auto guy at all, but to make a sub gun even mildly entertaining, it'd have to be fully automatic.
We've all seen the conversion uppers to make a pistol grip frame into a carbine of sorts. Mechtech comes to mind. https://mechtechsys.com/
MP5 is the primary option of course.
But, is S&W paving the way making the first name brand yet affordable full PCC here? Are the other popular otc brands like Sig, Colt, CZ, Ruger and Glock going to follow suit?
Beretta Storm, Ruger PC carbine, and Marlin Camp Carbine all preceded it, off the top of my head.
Andy
M&P Sub2000 for sure. Problem with these in 10mm or .357 SIG is they would batter themselves apart. 9mm is probably the upper limit for blowback plastic fantastic.
Neat toy, but nothing I'd be serious with. I'd rather pop the upper off of my 9mm AR and bag them together.
That said, Jerry can shoot anything. I bet he can group a Hi Point at 100 yards.
I am surprised they went with a blow back design. Are the other 9mm carbines like the KT blow back?
Averageman
03-02-23, 08:22
I am surprised they went with a blow back design. Are the other 9mm carbines like the KT blow back?
Blow back certainly makes engineering a sub caliber carbine a bit easies doesn't it?
I thought that was the whole Idea behind the M3 Greasegun, simple blow back design.
Blow back certainly makes engineering a sub caliber carbine a bit easies doesn't it?
I thought that was the whole Idea behind the M3 Greasegun, simple blow back design.
I hover between "the old ways are the best ways" to, you'd think they took a lazy low cost route to add to their sku. It folds, it's likely reliable, will add some good zip to the 9mm from the barrel, and cost effective and used M&P mags for those invested in M&P pistols, but I'm not feelin' it.
Averageman
03-02-23, 08:56
I hover between "the old ways are the best ways" to, you'd think they took a lazy low cost route to add to their sku. It folds, it's likely reliable, will add some good zip to the 9mm from the barrel, and cost effective and used M&P mags for those invested in M&P pistols, but I'm not feelin' it.
I fail to see what one of these does that my AR pistol cant do.
hotbiggun42
03-02-23, 09:19
I think i would save my money and buy a Colt 6951 for $300 more. But if SW wants to send me one ill take it and smile!
I fail to see what one of these does that my AR pistol cant do.
Other than use the same mags as the pistol for those who want that interchangeability, I can't think of anything of real merit why one would get that over AR pistols.
Most pistol carbines and SMG throughout history use straight blow back operation.
It's simple, cheap and reliable.
The locked breech designs are really the exception.
Blow back certainly makes engineering a sub caliber carbine a bit easies doesn't it?
I thought that was the whole Idea behind the M3 Greasegun, simple blow back design.
Averageman
03-02-23, 10:21
Most pistol carbines and SMG throughout history use straight blow back operation.
It's simple, cheap and reliable.
The locked breech designs are really the exception.
I would like to have the skill level toi make one on my own.
Just the skill level, I would of course never put together a garage Sten.
Most pistol carbines and SMG throughout history use straight blow back operation.
It's simple, cheap and reliable.
The locked breech designs are really the exception.
The problem with some blowbacks is recoil. 9mm ARs, for example, really buck more than their full powered gas operated rifle big brothers.
The problem with some blowbacks is recoil. 9mm ARs, for example, really buck more than their full powered gas operated rifle big brothers.
I always found blow back .380 pistols had a surprising amount of felt recoil, and was another reason among many to go with 9mm locked breech design of similar size. There's now more locked breech designs in .380, but never had the interest to try one myself.
Some of the early locked breech designs in .380 I tried back in the day were jam o matic POS. That was when only small pistols came in small rnds like .380, .32 etc. The blow back .380 were more reliable I found, and that was my first pistol once I got a CCW. It was a POS, but I can say dead reliable POS and $200 new, the S&W Smegma, so that's what I had as poor college student. I actually still have it and gave it to someone for free recently.
Averageman
03-02-23, 11:17
I always found blow back .380 pistols had a surprising amount of felt recoil, and was another reason among many to go with 9mm locked breech design of similar size.
Therefore 9X18 Mak would be pretty squirrely.
Considering blow back possibilities .22LR is interesting. I'm not sure how much malarky would be required for a 10/22 to work out.
I fail to see what one of these does that my AR pistol cant do.
Be a Title I firearm... :sarcastic: (J/K)
Seriously, though, I have a CX4 and an PC Carbine. Aside from being a lot of fun, they would both be effective personal/home defense firearms. The mag and ammo commonality with mass-market handguns is also a really useful feature.
I don't like M&P, so I'll pass on this one, but it's a neat concept.
Averageman
03-02-23, 11:33
Be a Title I firearm... :sarcastic: (J/K)
Seriously, though, I have a CX4 and an PC Carbine. Aside from being a lot of fun, they would both be effective personal/home defense firearms. The mag and ammo commonality with mass-market handguns is also a really useful feature.
I don't like M&P, so I'll pass on this one, but it's a neat concept.
Glock is losing money by not making one.
Glock is losing money by not making one.
I know! I don't know what they're thinking not releasing one already...They would sell them by the train-load.
I was pretty interested in this gun. I like the concept but the execution looks a bit wonky to me.
I guess I'll have to check it out in person but Im pretty sure this is a pass for me.
Gotta be an improvement
https://www.forgottenweapons.com/smith-wesson-light-rifle-video/
I know! I don't know what they're thinking not releasing one already...They would sell them by the train-load.
A glock version with AR type safety was the first thing I thought seeing this.
I am surprised they went with a blow back design. Are the other 9mm carbines like the KT blow back?
Pretty much the HK is the only one that is not. There is no need to lock up 9mm so gas operated would be pointless. Some like the Uzi even use a telescopic bolt and can manage out of battery fire just fine.
I fail to see what one of these does that my AR pistol cant do.
Half the weight, slimmer package, but I'd still rather have a 9mm AR. It's an interesting concept, I just worry about long term reliability.
I fail to see what one of these does that my AR pistol cant do.
Not be banned at will by the AFT on a whim over a dumb accessory?
Glock is losing money by not making one.
Most successful PCCs are semi auto versions of existing SMGs, it's hard to just come up with something from the ground up that has any practical application, which is why the M&P has to fold in half and stow 2 magazine in it's stock.
This is why for most practical types it's a semi AR, MP5 or TP9.
Glock knows they'd have to R&D a new subgun design that would revolutionize everything and make SMGs more relevant (which is limited by the handgun calibers themselves) or run the risk of pouring money into a system that goes nowhere. And they have watched HK in their attempts to replace the MP5. The SMG I and SMG II programs and the resulting UMP series were not terribly impressive.
Glock is smart enough to realize they have a known quantity with their handgun platform and so long as they don't pull a Cohen and start using substandard parts they just need to keep up with trends like light rails and mounting options for RDS.
....Glock knows they'd have to R&D a new subgun design that would revolutionize everything and make SMGs more relevant.....
Not necessarily...
All they'd need to do, is have a 9MM, 10MM, or 5.7 Glock, and put it in a Flux Raider type chassis (or make a new Raider-styled one-piece SMG) aaaaand.... that would essentially be a license for them to print money.
Flux can't keep the things in stock as-is, and they cost damn near $500 for the chassis alone, and only fit Sig 320s....
Now imagine a one-piece Glockified version in the $5-600 range, or a sub-$500 chassis, either of which can actually be made available regularly, and.... crank the money presses some more.
Right now, SMGs are trending to the PDW side. I think that's what S&W was trying to hit with this, albeit they are like 3 years to late. PCCs aren't that hot anymore, and bag guns, I think, are starting to wane as well after a few years of people realizing they hate carrying the thing around everywhere. Even for a 7-8" .300Blk, or 10-11.5" 5.56 with folding stocks, you still need a pretty hefty bag/pack. Standard classic-sized SMGs like MP5/Uzi/UMP/etc are dead because they cost the same size/weight as a short rifle, so no point.
A small micro-SMG that you CAN actually fit in a realistically sized bag and is light enough to carry with you, but capable enough to give you an edge over a mere handgun... that IS still very much a relevant item people want.
Not necessarily...
All they'd need to do, is have a 9MM, 10MM, or 5.7 Glock, and put it in a Flux Raider type chassis (or make a new Raider-styled one-piece SMG) aaaaand.... that would essentially be a license for them to print money.
Flux can't keep the things in stock as-is, and they cost damn near $500 for the chassis alone, and only fit Sig 320s....
Now imagine a one-piece Glockified version in the $5-600 range, or a sub-$500 chassis, either of which can actually be made available regularly, and.... crank the money presses some more.
Right now, SMGs are trending to the PDW side. I think that's what S&W was trying to hit with this, albeit they are like 3 years to late. PCCs aren't that hot anymore, and bag guns, I think, are starting to wane as well after a few years of people realizing they hate carrying the thing around everywhere. Even for a 7-8" .300Blk, or 10-11.5" 5.56 with folding stocks, you still need a pretty hefty bag/pack. Standard classic-sized SMGs like MP5/Uzi/UMP/etc are dead because they cost the same size/weight as a short rifle, so no point.
A small micro-SMG that you CAN actually fit in a realistically sized bag and is light enough to carry with you, but capable enough to give you an edge over a mere handgun... that IS still very much a relevant item people want.
Flux Raiders are about as practical as Beretta 93s. It's one thing to make an improvised PDW by offering a folding stock (which Glock did) but that's not really a pistol caliber carbine.
So I honestly think that this the keltec version, Ruger 9mm PCC (whatever they call the 10/22 conversion) are a good idea for a lot of people looking for a home defense gun thats easy and cheap to shoot, but can be used or deployed quickly in a defensive situation
So I honestly think that this the keltec version, Ruger 9mm PCC (whatever they call the 10/22 conversion) are a good idea for a lot of people looking for a home defense gun thats easy and cheap to shoot, but can be used or deployed quickly in a defensive situation
The big benefit of this over the Ruger is weight. If it's gonna be compact, it should also be lightweight.
The big benefit of this over the Ruger is weight. If it's gonna be compact, it should also be lightweight.
I totally agree. I could see this as a great little home defense gun that is easier to use for my wife and eldest son, folds up nice and compact where I could put it in a bedside safe that one wouldn't normally think of a "long gun" going into
My opinion, and others may disagree, is that while it's a neat little PCC; the only thing I should have to do to put a home defense gun into action is chamber a round if there isn't one already chambered and deactivate the safety. Too many things can go wrong when you have moving parts that don't really need to be moving parts.
Averageman
03-03-23, 19:00
My opinion, and others may disagree, is that while it's a neat little PCC; the only thing I should have to do to put a home defense gun into action is chamber a round if there isn't one already chambered and deactivate the safety. Too many things can go wrong when you have moving parts that don't really need to be moving parts.
I concur, my AR pistol and my Shotgun are much more viable choices than any pistol caliber carbine available.
When it comes to a budget home defense gun, it's very hard to beat a riot gun.
titsonritz
03-04-23, 00:11
It seems like hinged/folding/pivoting gun are the latest craze.
https://trailblazerfirearms.com/pivot-rifle/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4rpMaKDsv8
It seems like hinged/folding/pivoting gun are the latest craze.
https://trailblazerfirearms.com/pivot-rifle/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4rpMaKDsv8
Feels tactical. I do it complete wrong, one in the chamber so no MP5 slap or cool racking or even cocking of a hammer and loudly clicking off safety.
I've seen some Glock guys so butthurt over not being able to do "safety clicks" they actually brass check their handgun before any engagement even though they just did it 60 seconds ago when they loaded.
Pretty good commentary on the S&W reveal.
https://youtu.be/eiicOIp9xu4
If I had the pistol to match I'd want one.
I do have an M&P 2.0 .45 so if it was available in .45 they'd have a sale and I'd put a can on it.
I already have the roller-locked goodness, too, so, I just don't need this.
I'd rather it had a telescoping bolt and a folding stock.
Flux Raiders are about as practical as Beretta 93s. It's one thing to make an improvised PDW by offering a folding stock (which Glock did) but that's not really a pistol caliber carbine.
Irrelevant.
People want them.
Irrelevant.
People want them.
People want all the crap Cohen sells. I was talking in terms of practical folks.
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