View Full Version : Blackhawk SERPA Holsters?
zippygaloo
12-28-08, 14:35
What's your take on the Blackhawk SERPA holsters? What's good about them? What's bad about them? Would you personally recommend them?
I would stay as far away from them as possible. They are only popular because they are sold everywhere.
IMHO a push button unlocking system in line with the trigger is dumb on so many levels.
A Safariland holoster with the hood is the only mechanical feature I want holding my weapon in place.
My advice, stay with simple friction lock kydex holsters like: Blade Tech, G-Code, Comp-Tac, and Safariland. I hear Side Armor holsters are nice, but I have not tried them.
YMMV.
zippygaloo
12-28-08, 15:18
What about Uncle Mikes?
I agree with Dave about the SERPA. I want a retention system similar if not the smae as my duty gear. Muscle memory comes into play under stress. We had one of our range instructors try one out for a week and he kept attempting to draw his weapon the same as his 'duty' holster and kept having to stop think, press the button and draw. That just doesn't work for me.
If you do get one, practice, practice, practice. and keep your finger off the trigget when drawing....
-Mike.
My advice, stay with simple friction lock kydex holsters like: Blade Tech, G-Code, Comp-Tac, and Safariland. I hear Side Armor holsters are nice, but I have not tried them.
YMMV.
Yep. Sidearmor are good to go from what I've seen at IDPA matches, and some of our better shooters run and recomend them.
Also add Raven to that bunch, if their design works for you.
Serpa holsters are also prone to lockup from dirt, rocks, etc. getting stuck under the lever.
Fire_Medic
12-28-08, 16:01
I personally have SERPA's for all my Glocks and have never had any issue with them, the draw is easy for me and my finger never ends up on the trigger. I carry OWB with them using the belt attachment all the time. And I've never had any issue with the holster in any of the classes I have taken.
Forgot to mention... I have 2 Sidearmor Inside the Waistband holsters that work very well. I do not use them as much anymore. I purchased my first back in 2000 and my second a few years ago. They also offer a discount for LE/MIL if you ask.
-Mike.
What about Uncle Mikes?
Uncle Mikes are prone to cracking on the belt loops. They work fine for range ops, but not when you carry a gun for a living.
I would say the best deal in holsters, if you really don't want to spend a lot, would be the Galco Matrix line, and the new Blade Tech injection mold line.
Oh- stay away from Tech-lok...piece of shit...not if, when they come loose.
SERPA: no.
The number of people who think "I've never had an accident with mine" means the design is a good & safe one just astounds me. I've never had an accident in my car. I guess I should take out the airbags and seatbelts ...
If you want a retention holster, get a Safariland. Everything else is a gamble.
Don Robison
12-28-08, 17:21
SERPA: no.
The number of people who think "I've never had an accident with mine" means the design is a good & safe one just astounds me. I've never had an accident in my car. I guess I should take out the airbags and seatbelts ...
If you want a retention holster, get a Safariland. Everything else is a gamble.
+1
That should be the end of the thread......................................but somehow I don't think it will be:cool:
theJanitor
12-28-08, 17:35
and serpa's are even more dangerous when applied to 1911's. god forbid you put one on a vest.
alphatanker3ID
12-28-08, 22:54
I've used a SERPA for my Glock 19 for the last 500 rounds or so, and have had no problems with it. I'd recommend it to anyone and will plan to use one when I deploy and am issued an M9 (Beretta 92FS).
+1
That should be the end of the thread......................................but somehow I don't think it will be:cool:
And boom goes the dynamite.
I've used a SERPA for my Glock 19 for the last 500 rounds or so, and have had no problems with it. I'd recommend it to anyone and will plan to use one when I deploy and am issued an M9 (Beretta 92FS).
I have a Serpa CQC for my G19. I like it but if I were back in the Corps and carrying it out in the muck I might be concerned about the release lever getting jammed with rocks, dirt, mud, whatever. I'm not sure how well it would work at that point. I'm always on the lookout for better holsters. The Safariland 6000's appear to fit the bill but I've never used one.
zippygaloo
12-28-08, 23:50
and serpa's are even more dangerous when applied to 1911's. god forbid you put one on a vest.
I was planning on either a SERPA or Blade-Tech (with Tek-Lok), but someone said NO TEK-LOK! Why not Tek-Lok?
Don Robison
12-28-08, 23:57
I was planning on either a SERPA or Blade-Tech (with Tek-Lok), but someone said NO TEK-LOK! Why not Tek-Lok?
Given the two you've listed I would go with the blade tech with standard belt loop. The tek-lok has a way of loosening up and the little slide lock falls out etc. Take a look at comp-tac as well if you want kydex or high noon for leather.
ymmv
I have three.
One is a duty holster, level III, in which I carry a Glock 17. I've gone through two classes with it and carry it for work. It gets banged up left and right, but never a malfunction. The hood has never opened without me pushing the release and I like the fact that it also won't close by accident. My biggest complaint is that it sits way too low and really digs into vehicle seats. I'm mostly on my feet though and it's not a problem.
Two other Serpas are level II OWB that I carry on paddles. One for Glocks and another one for my XD-45. Once in a while, I carry these for work also, but not as often as the duty holster. The paddles are very strong and really grab the belt and pants in a way that I don't think they'd come off easily. The regular OWB level II holsters are also cut lower in the front, so I'm out of the holster pretty quickly.
Overall, the good points:
They're cheap. Not "no-name nylon crap" cheap, but affordable. The price, along with availability is a big plus for people that need to buy their own stuff. They're carbon fiber reinforced polymer, or whatever the hell. Either way, they're strong and they don't get cosmetically damaged as easily as leather or even nylon. The stories of the button jamming have not materialized. A spill of soda on the duty holster (had to eat lunch in a car), made the button sticky to operate, but not to the point where I worried about jamming. I waited a week before finally rinsing it with water and cleaning that crap out. Speaking about crap - I like the fact that the holsters are open bottom and that nothing accumulates inside. Finally, I really like the draw. Over a thousand of practice draws and a couple of Whoops, I Crapped My Pants draws, and my finger never went anywhere near the trigger by accident. I really don't see how that's possible with any amount of training. I can also draw with my weak hand, with both the level II and III holsters, although this took some practice.
Bad points:
While the button is easy, I do think that it's a little too easy, making itself obvious. Any bad guy that wants your gun and has time to observe the holster for a little bit can probably figure out what needs to be done. I feel a little better with the level III, but even then I try to pay more attention to who is close to me on my gun side and use my arm/elbow to cover the grip. The OWB holsters are not really concealable, unless you have a fairly heavy cover garment. This means that outside of range or open carry, they're pretty useless.
So, personally I do recommend them, if they fulfill your specific need. I bought mine mostly due to the price point and they've performed very well thus far. I do know that there are better made duty and OWB holsters out there, both functionally and cosmetically. Still, Serpa holsters are quite functional and work for their intended purpose.
zippygaloo
12-29-08, 00:40
delete
What exactly is an "Whoops, I Crapped My Pants" draw?
That's the type of draw after which you need to check your pants, because you thought that things were about to get noisy.
IrishDevil
12-29-08, 01:51
SERPA= Junk
I've seen the buttons break as well as become useless when full of debris.
The only retention holsters to consider are Safariland.
Mine has been good so far, picked it up dirt cheap ($15 for the carbon fiber xd model off of EE on TOS). When I carry OWB it's what I use. When I carry IWB I use a crossbreed supertuck.
I know there were some issues with the latch design on the first generation models that allowed debris/rocks/dirt under the latch and were potentially hazardous based on the leveler's location.
The third gen (current) seems to have overcome that with better engineering...or so I have heard. I've taken mine down on the ground with me a couple times at the range just running basic drills and it hasnt failed...with that said...I carry with the kydex a bit more often as the Mrs. prefers CC to OC.
During my last trip to Iraq, I had both a Safariland thigh holster and a SERPA paddle holster. I wore the Safariland outside the wire. For strolling around the FOB the SERPA was fine, and more comfortable. As noted by someone earlier, the difference is that I definitely wouldn't feel comfortable keeping a round chambered in a 1911 in a SERPA. I own both types or holsters for my personal 1911s too.
SERPA = Light Duty
Safariland = Switched On
I bought a Non finger lock version of the Serpa. That was a waste of money. The holsters are trash.
I actually like the uncle mikes kydex paddle holsters if only they didn't crack and break. :rolleyes:
I'm running a comp tac kydex which seems to be good. For retention... I agree with everyone else. Safariland.
For a lot of us civilians, who may only need a holster to protect the weapon while you're walking through the woods, setting up targets, etc,, the old GI M12 works just fine.
Pros: Cheap, available (sometimes less than $25 on Ebay for a brand new surplus one), decent job of protection and retention.
Cons: Probably NOT the holster to buy if you foresee the need to draw your weapon in a hurry, Nylon construction (which a lot of folks don't like), just too 1980's :D
30 cal slut
12-29-08, 12:05
i've found the serpa to be useful while (legally) open carrying.
not that i do that very often ... but the retention feature is nice to have.
zippygaloo
12-29-08, 13:10
Explain why not 1911 in a SERPA?
theJanitor
12-29-08, 15:03
Having to "press" a button at the same position as your trigger (especially on a 1911, which needs virtually no trigger movement to fire) is probably not the best idea. Personally i draw with my trigger finger higher, around the area of the slide stop pin, not at the trigger level.
which leads to my second biggest gripe about a serpa: if you pull up on the pistol, before the button is pressed, you can lock up the retention mechanism. you then need to push the pistol back down into the holster, re-press the button and redraw. you can't guarantee that you have a clean perfect draw when you need your gun.
which leads back to the first argument. your now frantically trying to FORCE the holster to let go of your gun and probably pressing down on that button pretty hard and you finally get the gun out of the holster and you peg yourself in the leg.
Alpha Sierra
12-29-08, 16:56
There are so many reputable stories of SERPAs failing to release when they should, being broken right off their mount, and setting people up for NDs that it simply boggles the mind that anyone would consider them a serious holster.
Seriously, you would be MILES ahead with a Galco FLETCH (leather pancake with thumb break) than with that POS.
Alpha Sierra
12-29-08, 17:04
I have a Colt Delta Elite 10mm (Government Model 80) I was planning on putting in my holster. What is the best holster for this gun?
No one can define the "best holster" for your pistol.
Best for what? All day comfort? Most concealing? Highest level of retention? You need to be most specific.
Frankly, if you are not going to carry openly, and you are just Joe CCW, get a leather IWB holster like a Canute from UBG Holsters, Versa Max II from Milt Sparks, or Dakota Defender from K&D Holsters and a matching leather pancake belt holster from the same maker.
You will have two very comfortable holsters that will retain the gun as well as you will EVER need, will conceal the pistol in any circumstance imaginable, will draw like greased lightning once broken in, and will last a lifetime.
Alpha Sierra
12-29-08, 17:42
While we are at it, buy a real leather gun belt. A two-layer bullhide belt from The Beltman (http://www.thebeltman.net) works FAR better than any Army-lookalike web belt, including the one I have from The Wilderness.
Saw a guy accidentally shoot himself through the material in his trousers while he was drawing his M&P from his Serpa. The four of us just stood around staring at each other for about five seconds until he finally realized what he'd done. Very lucky chap.
I've heard of similar things happening but after seeing it first hand I try and steer people clear of them. As mentioned though, most people just don't think it will happen to them.
Explain why not 1911 in a SERPA?
The 1911 is a single action sidearm with an exposed hammer and a firing pin that's always in-line. I personally don't feel comfortable carrying a 1911 with a round chambered in something as open as a SERPA.
Also, what specific make and model would you suggest for a 1911? Thanks
As some folks in this thread have already stated, Safariland. With a 1911 with a round chambered and the hammer back, the hood acts as a physical block between the hammer and the firing pin. IMHO, for transitions or serious pistol work this holster is the fastest, safest, fastest, most durable and fastest. Did I mention fastest?
zippygaloo
12-30-08, 03:09
What is "Injection-molded polymer"? Is it the same as "Kydex"?
I have seen plenty of people running a SERPA. I have seen it used in courses like SFAUC. I have seen plenty of people running it overseas. I use one. Personally, I have never seen any problems with the SERPA.
The Safariland provides excellent protection for your sidearm and it is very well built. The hood can be a problem for some people. People often forget to close the hood when they reholster.
More than a few times I found my hood opened because I caught it on something in the turret. I hate leg drops so I used 6004 on a belt drop. The hood would bind against my body armor and open it's own.
One time I was on a UH60 with an open door. I did a quick equipment check after we got off the ground only to realize that hood had come open again. I spent the rest of the flight with one hand on my pistol. That experience sort of turned me off to the Safariland.
I have yet to find the perfect holster. I like the Safailand holsters but I don't like the retention system. The G-Code and Bladetec holsters with retention do look interesting.
Just one man's opinion....
I have seen plenty of people running a SERPA. I have seen it used in courses like SFAUC. I have seen plenty of people running it overseas. I use one. Personally, I have never seen any problems with the SERPA.
The Safariland provides excellent protection for your sidearm and it is very well built. The hood can be a problem for some people. People often forget to close the hood when they reholster.
More than a few times I found my hood opened because I caught it on something in the turret. I hate leg drops so I used 6004 on a belt drop. The hood would bind against my body armor and open it's own.
One time I was on a UH60 with an open door. I did a quick equipment check after we got off the ground only to realize that hood had come open again. I spent the rest of the flight with one hand on my pistol. That experience sort of turned me off to the Safariland.
I have yet to find the perfect holster. I like the Safailand holsters but I don't like the retention system. The G-Code and Bladetec holsters with retention do look interesting.
Just one man's opinion....
Just posing a hypothetical but if you can nudge the hood open on a safariland, dont you think you can hit the button on a serpa and completely dislodge the pistol?
What's your take on the Blackhawk SERPA holsters? What's good about them? What's bad about them? Would you personally recommend them?
Recommend you pass, for the reasons already mentioned and a few others.
Verboten in some places, returned in others.
With quality kydex like Holsters Plus, BT, others, at similar price points, there's no reason to waste much time contemplating the Serpa.
Cruncher Block
12-30-08, 11:16
Let's just say I have two SERPAs for sale now. :D
At least for Glocks, the push button is inline with the frame, not the trigger. It's exactly underneath where my finger is for a normal draw.
However, the fact that you have to *apply pressure* to something in the vicinity of the trigger... under stress... may be worthy of consideration. Is that such a good idea? I judged it to not be a concern but others may disagree.
For me, the "give up on it" came when I noticed I was having a problem on 1 out of every 5-10 draws due to not fully disengaging the retention device. That first frustrated yank gave me a sick feeling in my stomach.
At least for Glocks, the push button is inline with the frame, not the trigger. It's exactly underneath where my finger is for a normal draw.
I inspected mine more closely (it is a Rev B) and the button is also on the frame and not in the trigger well area. It also looks like the retention piece is at least a quarter inch or more away from the trigger when holstered. That should provide enough of a comfort factor. The trigger is not going to be depressed with that much of a gap. Just about every issue of Leatherneck Magazine I get each month shows a devil dog using a Serpa CQC. I wonder if the Corps is now issuing them.
Those Safariland Raptors and ALS holsters seem pretty nice. Extra training would be involved, of course, but the retention is surely there.
Alpha Sierra
12-30-08, 12:02
Since zippygaloo has not yet explained WHAT he wants the holster for (just that he wants a SERPA) or why he feels he needs any level of active retention, I have nothing further to add.
I used SERPA on a chest mount, OWB and on a drop leg mount while deployed. The problems were what everyone else has mentioned, the biggest issues being: sand and dust locking up the release button also muscle memory under stress situations takes over and the trigger finger location/release button on the SERPA does tend to add to the possibility of error. Those problems may not seem like much to worry about but for combat/tactical use gear has to be relieable and safe...needless to say, I switched to the old tried and true safariland 6004.
zippygaloo
12-30-08, 13:00
I'm wanting a quality holster that will perform well running courses (both training and competition) and work good for concealment. If both can be found in the same holster, great! If not, I'm looking for suggestions. Weapon retention (keeping it away from an easy grab from another) is important but not necessarily desired if it becomes a safety issue.
I know the SERPA is probably not the best as a concealment holster.
With the number of problems associated with this (Serpa) design, one state's Risk Management folks resolved that the problems were too persistent and therefore, the holster was not to be used on any state range or state sponsored training effort. Written policy was put in place to support the decision to keep the Serpa out of their training venues.
Hat Creek -- I know some feds who took the same approach with their agencies. SERPA is outlawed.
zippy -- You want a holster that is great for concealment, security, and competition? Not going to happen. Either plan on getting multiple holsters or accept that you're going to be making compromises.
I use one holster 99% of the time, an appendix carry CCC Looper (http://www.shop.customcarryconcepts.com/product.sc?categoryId=3&productId=10). It's not legal in most competitive pistol events, though. When I was actively shooting IDPA, I used various behind-the-hip IWB holsters; not because they were competitive (they weren't) but because it was my everyday carry holster.
I've also got a 6004 for those rare times when that is more appropriate for a given activity, and I've got a HawkePaks Micro Gun Pak (http://www.skdtac.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=902) for those times when a fanny pack makes the most sense.
Cruncher Block
12-30-08, 13:50
I'm wanting a quality holster that will perform well running courses (both training and competition) and work good for concealment. If both can be found in the same holster, great! If not, I'm looking for suggestions. Weapon retention (keeping it away from an easy grab from another) is important but not necessarily desired if it becomes a safety issue.
I am not exposed to any high-risk situations so take my experience with a grain of salt. I thought the SERPA would be a way to gain speed without giving up retention.
However, the number of "yank and cuss" moments I had trying to get the hang of it was not acceptable to me. Others may have had different experiences.
Heavy Metal
12-30-08, 15:43
I have a SERPA and the way I address is is to come in below the release and slide my hand up the frame until my fully extended trigger finger butts along the stop at the top edge of the retention lever. It could be a PITA till I figured out this technique.
This ensures three things:
1) No more cuss and yank when I tried to find the button while wearing shooting gloves.
2) It index my trigger finger safely above the trigger on the side of the frame.
3) A high grip on the frame.
I'm wanting a quality holster that will perform well running courses (both training and competition) and work good for concealment. If both can be found in the same holster, great! If not, I'm looking for suggestions. Weapon retention (keeping it away from an easy grab from another) is important but not necessarily desired if it becomes a safety issue.
I know the SERPA is probably not the best as a concealment holster.
I am no longer a LEO, so all of my carry is concealed or open on the range. That said since when I am usually out and about my weapon is concealed I do not use a holster with an active retention device. Just friction retention kydex or leather. I usually carry my G17 in a Sidearmor IWB. And have for years. I also used it to carry my duty G22 when working plain clothes or off-duty previously. I would reccomend this holster. Currently I am eyeballing a CompTac and have a couple of their mag carriers. Their stuff is also very nice. I like the CompTac better than the Sidearmor, but you may want to check them both out.
Last Dec. I took Pat Rogers EAG Carbine Operators course and carried my 1911 for the whole class. I used a Safariland 5186 OWB kydex holster. I like it. It seems to have been replaced by the 5187 which has adjustable belt loops to accomodate different width belts. This is a good thing, as it was my only complaint about my 5186. It's designed as a CCW holster, and hides well behind the hip, its IDPA legal, and relatively inexpensive. I had zero issues with retention carrying my 1911 during the class, even when going prone, and running the MEUSOC. (i.e. it's good for training and competition legal, and works well for CCW! All your requirements!) You might want to check them out. 5187 (http://www.safariland.com/product.aspx?pid=5187)
Good luck in your search!
-RD62
Alpha Sierra
12-30-08, 19:55
I'm wanting a quality holster that will perform well running courses (both training and competition) and work good for concealment.
The leather holsters I recommended in post #30 of this thread will do what you need.
the_fallguy
12-30-08, 23:32
I noticed Gabe Suarez will not allow the use of the Serpa in any of his classes now. He mentioned there has been more than one occurrence in which someone using a Serpa shot there own leg during force on force training (and one occasion where an LEO shot her leg with the real thing).
I'm certainly no SME, but feel qualified to offer my experience with the SERPA. First of all, on a belt I prefer my Safariland with hood for open carry to the SERPA. For concealed carry I prefer my Milt Sparks VM2 to the SERPA.
That said, in the past I've spent enough time with a SERPA to opine that it's a serviceable holster. I've never experienced or seen any reliability problems. And while I respect the opinions of those who think that there's a problem with the trigger finger retention release, I just have never seen my index finger getting anywhere close to the trigger during the draw (during past practice, training and qualification courses). So, I like the SERPA as a back-up holster, but use on a daily basis my Safariland or VM2. YMMV.
TUNNEL RAT 33
01-02-09, 20:16
i have a serpa for my sig 226 that i used for plainclothes work . since we seem to tussle a lot with perps the thought of having that retention devise looked good and it replaced my Blade-Tech IWB . from the start i noticed that the tension screw if turned too far locked the gun in the holster , another thing that drove me crazy is the forward and backward play of the gun when holstered . Blackhawk told me that was normal . since i work in the subways of New York i have no experience with any dirt or other debris getting in the mechanism . i have since gone back to the Blade-Tech Iwb the serpa has been relegated to the seemed like a good idea holster box .
MarshallDodge
01-03-09, 23:08
Serpas are cheap but I find it to be better than some of the other plastic stuff on the market. I like mine but it is relegated to the occasional open carry, not getting beat up in a battle scenario.
I don't agree with the idea that the 1911 is more dangerous to carry in a Serpa. The grip and thumb safety should prevent the trigger from being pressed.
Failure2Stop
01-05-09, 18:56
Just in case it hasn't sunk in yet- NO SERPA. :D
For concealment I like my VM2, but will be transitioning to appendix, thus negating my preference.
For tactical work I like the 6004 as a drop and the 6378 if vest mounted (see this write-up by military moron (http://www.militarymorons.com/equipment/firstline.html#sfde)) if you want more info.
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