View Full Version : Hey M4.net, let’s solve the homeless problem. . .
El Vaquero
03-14-23, 14:57
There are some pretty smart m-fers on this site. What do we do with them? Realistically that is. Is the homeless problem a loophole in the constitution? Where forcing them to do something against their will infringes on their civil liberties.
How do we legally bridge the gap between their civil liberties and society to get them off the street and get them the help they don’t think they need? Most are homeless by choice. Most suffer from forms of mental illness and drug addiction. I feel their unsanitary conditions pose a health risk and concern for the general public and can be addressed that way, but, what do you do with them? Put them in camps? Force medication on them?
For the purpose of this discussion homeless are defined by those who are homeless by choice, living on the street, begging for handouts, and suffering from mental illness/addiction. Many do not really have the current mental or physical capacity to even flip burgers. I’m not referring to those who are working folk and down on their luck and usually homeless temporarily.
That documentary on Netflix about the hatchet man cracked me up because it provided insight to how homeless are. Unpredictable, mental, addicts, and homeless by choice.
I don't know where to begin with these filthy shit bags. Obviously, lunatic left wing policies make this disaster much worse. So cracking down on these roaches and making the choice to shit bag around MASSIVELY more difficult (instead of fostering it) is a start.
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-14-23, 16:58
Funny you should ask. I just came up with the solution this afternoon.
-No tents unless you are 21.
-No tents if you have a felony arrest or have been cited for domestic violence, even if in civil case.
-No tents for illegal immigrants.
-And that pretty much implies that you have to get a background check to get a tent.
-A three day waiting period for tents.
-A Red Tent law that if anyone who knows or has seen you can turn you in and the court can then take away your tent with out you knowing anything about it.
-For every tent that people want to bring onto the market, you have to take two models off the market.
-Of the new tents on the market, they must be “Smart Tents” that prevent domestic violence, drug use, and public urination.
-We have to stop the sale of tents, especially ‘high-capacity’ tents.
-No ‘modern’ tents out of anything but waxed canvas.
-There is no right to tents in the Constitution.
-No “Ghost tents” where you take some tarps or other stuff that gets you 80% to a tent and you finish it off yourself.
-No Bump Tents where you can butt them up against each other to make a longer tent.
-And of course, all tents have to have serial number.
-We have to hold the tent manufacturers liable for all of the illegal activity that these tents enable.
That people can use tents for recreation is not the issue? How many tents have you seen out in the woods versus the problems that they cause for our our neighborhoods of Color, LGBTQIAXYZ&+-, and other victims yearning for equity.
Big Tent must end this circus of misbehavior in our cities.
You win the internet today...
Funny you should ask. I just came up with the solution this afternoon.
-No tents unless you are 21.
-No tents if you have a felony arrest or have been cited for domestic violence, even if in civil case.
-No tents for illegal immigrants.
-And that pretty much implies that you have to get a background check to get a tent.
-A three day waiting period for tents.
-A Red Tent law that if anyone who knows or has seen you can turn you in and the court can then take away your tent with out you knowing anything about it.
-For every tent that people want to bring onto the market, you have to take two models off the market.
-Of the new tents on the market, they must be “Smart Tents” that prevent domestic violence, drug use, and public urination.
-We have to stop the sale of tents, especially ‘high-capacity’ tents.
-No ‘modern’ tents out of anything but waxed canvas.
-There is no right to tents in the Constitution.
-No “Ghost tents” where you take some tarps or other stuff that gets you 80% to a tent and you finish it off yourself.
-No Bump Tents where you can butt them up against each other to make a longer tent.
-And of course, all tents have to have serial number.
-We have to hold the tent manufacturers liable for all of the illegal activity that these tents enable.
That people can use tents for recreation is not the issue? How many tents have you seen out in the woods versus the problems that they cause for our our neighborhoods of Color, LGBTQIAXYZ&+-, and other victims yearning for equity.
Big Tent must end this circus of misbehavior in our cities.
Funny you should ask. I just came up with the solution this afternoon.
-No tents unless you are 21.
-No tents if you have a felony arrest or have been cited for domestic violence, even if in civil case.
-No tents for illegal immigrants.
-And that pretty much implies that you have to get a background check to get a tent.
-A three day waiting period for tents.
-A Red Tent law that if anyone who knows or has seen you can turn you in and the court can then take away your tent with out you knowing anything about it.
-For every tent that people want to bring onto the market, you have to take two models off the market.
-Of the new tents on the market, they must be “Smart Tents” that prevent domestic violence, drug use, and public urination.
-We have to stop the sale of tents, especially ‘high-capacity’ tents.
-No ‘modern’ tents out of anything but waxed canvas.
-There is no right to tents in the Constitution.
-No “Ghost tents” where you take some tarps or other stuff that gets you 80% to a tent and you finish it off yourself.
-No Bump Tents where you can butt them up against each other to make a longer tent.
-And of course, all tents have to have serial number.
-We have to hold the tent manufacturers liable for all of the illegal activity that these tents enable.
That people can use tents for recreation is not the issue? How many tents have you seen out in the woods versus the problems that they cause for our our neighborhoods of Color, LGBTQIAXYZ&+-, and other victims yearning for equity.
Big Tent must end this circus of misbehavior in our cities.
I'm going to surrender my tent to prevent homelessness.
Heard them to Mexico. It’s warmer there.
No surprise that it is actually a really difficult nut to crack. The civil liberty issue plays big. Especially once the lefties get involved. I could regale you with experiences I have had with "advocates" for the homeless over the years in work situations.
For the type specifically mentioned in the OP? I don't see any option short of adjudication of incompetence and forced treatment. Be it detox and drug treatment for junkies or involuntary institutionalization for the mentally impaired. That will spark cries of injustice from many, and to some degree it is true. It will also cost money. A lot of money.
Unfortunately I don't see another solution. These folks are a legitimate danger to themselves and others. One advocacy group (National Health Care for the Homeless Council) estimates up to 40,000 homeless die each year. Overdoses, illness, injuries, you name it. Average life expectancy for a homeless person is 50. Crimes committed by the homeless are common, and they are often violent. So provably "dangerous to themselves and others".
Lock them up for crimes, triage them for treatment, and involuntary commitment as necessary. It will be called inhumane, but how humane is it to "warehouse" them on the streets to victimize others as well as destroy themselves. What we have is simply "free range" inhumanity. How humane treatment facilities for them are is is controllable and monitorable. Living and dying on the streets is not.
El Vaquero
03-14-23, 17:56
I’m all for passing camping laws and such but what should the penalties be? Hauling a homeless person off to jail isn’t as easy as it sounds when they have a shopping cart full of crap. That and they’re nasty. They have lice, bed bugs, hepatitis, and usually staph infections.
Let's use the Obamacare model where we REQUIRE homeless people to obtain suitable homes or fine them for non compliance. That way the government can get involved in the real estate market and **** that up too.
Cut all/most social welfare programs unless there is a proven need. ZERO help to anybody if they can't pass a piss test. That should motivate some of these idiots to work...or starve.
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El Vaquero
03-14-23, 18:51
Cut all/most social welfare programs unless there is a proven need. ZERO help to anybody if they can't pass a piss test. That should motivate some of these idiots to work...or starve.
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That’s how we are where we are. Most can’t/won’t pass a piss test. And they’re not working, and they’re not starving either. They’re begging and getting by.
Bus them all to the left coast then build a large wall to keep them there.
Next problem?
That’s how we are where we are. Most can’t/won’t pass a piss test. And they’re not working, and they’re not starving either. They’re begging and getting by.
Don't discount a whole lot of "petty" crime. I have worked a lot of construction sites that were heavy with homeless. Urban freeways, bridges, and other civil stuff. I can tell you that begging is not the primary source of income for many of these folks.
Dude I deal with this every day at work. Unless we all agree to start violating civil rights, there is no solution.
There are many homeless that are truly mentally ill. But, at least around here, the VAST majority are on the streets because of drugs. Fentanyl has made the problem significantly worse. Currently a single "blue" fentanyl pill is 1 dollar in Phoenix. The price fluctuates depending on supply but it's rarely over 3 bucks a pill now a days. The potency of the drug coupled with the low price leaves us with zombies walking around the streets.
We have a really good program that will get them off the streets, addiction treatment, housing assistance, and help finding employment. Immediately. When we roll out with the program and go to the camps to offer it, maybe 1 in 30 will take us up on it. The others will flat out say that the high is worth the lifestyle.
It used to be when I caught a guy with meth he would say something dumb like "these aren't my pants". Find some blues on a guy, he will flat out admit they are his.
Am I the only freedom loving individual left?
****.... I’m leaving and taking the god damn flag with me!
Am I the only freedom loving individual left?
****.... I’m leaving and taking the god damn flag with me!
Yeah brah, you watch a cute but strung out teenage girl pull a train with a bunch of nasty old crackheads just to stay high and tell me all about freedom.
Cut all/most social welfare programs unless there is a proven need. ZERO help to anybody if they can't pass a piss test. That should motivate some of these idiots to work...or starve.
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You are attempting to apply accountability to people who are completely alien to such ideas. They will simply steal more, sell more drugs and things like that.
Am I the only freedom loving individual left?
****.... I’m leaving and taking the god damn flag with me!
Where were you when they made me buy Obamacare?
Am I the only freedom loving individual left?
****.... I’m leaving and taking the god damn flag with me!
Kinda what I was thinking.
That’s how we are where we are. Most can’t/won’t pass a piss test. And they’re not working, and they’re not starving either. They’re begging and getting by.One of the reasons we left the PNW is because they continue to throw money at these people. They have only increased social welfare programs.
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Y'all need to read the "Glass Castle"
https://a.co/d/1oAW1I6
Very informative
I'm involved in a "mission" to help alleviate homelessness
It is a very complicated matrix of issues
ChattanoogaPhil
03-14-23, 23:11
Solve homelessness? Get a job.
El Vaquero
03-14-23, 23:20
Agreed. Not to be demeaning but it’s definitely a don’t feed the animals type thing. Giving handouts, designated camps, etc, only encourages more to come. And they never stay in their designated areas. They creep out into the neighborhoods.
There’s an old episode of the series Vice I saw on YouTube awhile back. They interviewed residents in a neighborhood in Austin. The residents they interviewed were very pro homeless. They interviewed them again a few months later after the homeless had crept into their neighborhoods and their attitudes had changed-sort of. After a few of them had to cleanup human feces from their yards they changed somewhat. They still felt bad for them, but just wanted them to go somewhere else. As in to somebody else’s neighborhood. They essentially wanted to kick the can down the road so long as they weren’t in THEIR neighborhood.
But that’s what it’s got to take for all these libtards to get it. They need to deal with the homeless problem in their neighborhoods and in their front yards. As long as the homeless problem isn’t in their backyard they will continue to be pro homeless.
Dude I deal with this every day at work. Unless we all agree to start violating civil rights, there is no solution.
Is shitting on the sidewalk some kind of civil right now?
Agreed. Not to be demeaning but it’s definitely a don’t feed the animals type thing. Giving handouts, designated camps, etc, only encourages more to come. And they never stay in their designated areas. They creep out into the neighborhoods.
There’s an old episode of the series Vice I saw on YouTube awhile back. They interviewed residents in a neighborhood in Austin. The residents they interviewed were very pro homeless. They interviewed them again a few months later after the homeless had crept into their neighborhoods and their attitudes had changed-sort of. After a few of them had to cleanup human feces from their yards they changed somewhat. They still felt bad for them, but just wanted them to go somewhere else. As in to somebody else’s neighborhood. They essentially wanted to kick the can down the road so long as they weren’t in THEIR neighborhood.
But that’s what it’s got to take for all these libtards to get it. They need to deal with the homeless problem in their neighborhoods and in their front yards. As long as the homeless problem isn’t in their backyard they will continue to be pro homeless.
Democrats, liberals, progressives, libtards, idiots... whatever you choose to call them all have the same mentality. They're all like children who seem to have zero critical thinking skills and they always have the same NIMBY attitude about everything. Whether its energy production issues or any other complex matter. As soon as it negatively affects them, they want someone else to deal with it and fix the problem that they were certain was so damn simple to solve.
The overwhelming majority of homeless are in the situation they are in either because they choose to be, have severe psychological issues or are just too damn lazy/stupid to take care of themselves and have burned every bridge that was ever available to them to get help. There have always been bums and there always will be. Once upon a time when the most psychologically damaged individuals were removed from society and committed to institutions, the homeless problem was nowhere near as bad as it currently is. Incidents of abusive treatment of the mentally ill in those institutions resulted in most of them being closed and the only ones left are those that are reserved for the criminally insane who are committed when they cannot be found guilty of crimes due to insanity and imprisoned or executed.
I don't know of any solution other than going back to involuntarily committing mentally deficient/disturbed individuals until they are cured or dead.
I’m all for passing camping laws and such but what should the penalties be? Hauling a homeless person off to jail isn’t as easy as it sounds when they have a shopping cart full of crap. That and they’re nasty. They have lice, bed bugs, hepatitis, and usually staph infections.
That's what we used dumpsters for--
teufelhund1918
03-15-23, 06:43
I hear the Wagner PMG is looking for a few good men... and I guess women now too. Sign 'em up.
Ahh, bad joke. But really, when they closed down alot of these institutions that housed people with mental problems, the people that weren't picked up by relatives and such were literally thrown out on the street to fend for themselves. I believe that is part of the biggest problem with alot of homeless people from what I've seen. I feel for those folks who have issues like that when they can't function in society. Drug addictions are a big problem too. I think society itself has to come up with the solution. Government shouldn't be looked to for a solution for anything. They usually e@#f everything they touch up.
I'm not trying to sound all touchy feely. There is a big bad side to all this also. Back in my small hometown in WVa, some homeless started to show up. People with good intentions gave them food, clothing, etc.. What did they do? They got on their government provided cellphones(???!!!) and called their friends, who started to show up so that they could get food and stuff. Now there are homeless living under steps of businesses, homes, etc. Walking the streets at night higher than a kite screaming, pissing on people's porches and causing problems. They have taken over the local parks, and cemetaries living in them also. Needles from drug use are all over the place. Local LEO won't do anything because local prosecutor's won't hold them for their crimes. It's a mess for sure.
Now as far as those folks who are just plain ole' lazy and won't help themselves, you'll reap what you sow. If you can but you're not willing to help yourself, don't expect someone else to.
It’s a complicated issue. Mental illness and substance dependence/abuse is a tough combo.
The really troubling thing is that it’s mostly 20-40’s working aged males, people just don’t care about boys or men in our society anymore, they’re ostracized naturally and blamed for all of the woes of the world and there mental issues take a back seat to everything else, can you imagine how much less of a problem it would be if mental illness of boys was treated with the tenacity breast cancer is?
Can you imagine if every college had a “”men’s center” as a resource for young men to seek help?
People care more about transitioning boys into Frankenstein-girls than they do actually treating their mental illness these days.
Masculine traits are demonized and punished at every turn in school and in society. If you act like a boy or a man these days you get in trouble in just about every walk of life.
So, people wonder why they become disenfranchised and turn to drugs and the street life.
It needs to start with treating mental illness more effectively.
I work with a woman who goes out and gives provisions to these disgusting shit bags through her church. A huge piece of the issue is the Fentynal. She says these animals are all zombied out on drugs. No friggin idea what the logic of giving these shit stains anything might be. But I don't go down that road with her.
One More Time
03-15-23, 11:02
People are so desperate to show others that they "care" that they'll do anything.
They set up tents with blankets for the shitbags here.
Millions spent on tarps and tents.
Never had this problem before..
Wonder what changed? :rolleyes:
If you want more of something, subsidize it.
If you want less of something, tax it.
hotbiggun42
03-15-23, 20:23
Close the borders
Bring back criminal prosecution for drug related crimes
Scale back welfare, bigly
Enforce tresspass laws
Enforce federal drug laws
Reduce federal employee workforce by 50%
Lower taxes on corporations
MAGA
titsonritz
03-15-23, 23:55
One of the reasons we left the PNW is because they continue to throw money at these people. They have only increased social welfare programs.
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The assholes in Portland want to give them $1000 a month.
The_War_Wagon
03-16-23, 00:02
Funny you should ask. I just came up with the solution this afternoon.
Big Tent must end this circus of misbehavior in our cities.
You must have earned camping merit badge to prove responsible knowledge of tenting!
OutofBatt3ry
03-16-23, 00:53
After WWII, 1000's of soldiers that were poor AF before the war, came home...to nothing. Still poor.
Many were caught sleeping on sidewalks and benches.
They were charged with vagrancy. 30+ days in the quarry, breaking rocks.
I guess they figured out how not be homeless after that.
Back then it was about keeping society decent.
Today, it's all about money. Legislators figured out it's cheaper to let them(homeless and destitute) build tent cities.
titsonritz
03-16-23, 13:23
Start enforcing that damn laws!!! It really is that simple.
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-16-23, 13:38
After WWII, 1000's of soldiers that were poor AF before the war, came home...to nothing. Still poor.
Many were caught sleeping on sidewalks and benches.
They were charged with vagrancy. 30+ days in the quarry, breaking rocks.
I guess they figured out how not be homeless after that.
Back then it was about keeping society decent.
Today, it's all about money. Legislators figured out it's cheaper to let them(homeless and destitute) build tent cities.
“There sure is a lot of money in poverty”- My Dad.
You 100% have to remove the people from the problem. We've seen this in all the prison release programs that grab people and get them out of the communities that lead to them being criminals or gangbangers and into jobs right away. Those are successful, but removing homeless/mentally ill/druggies from the environment that lead to it is somehow a war crime.
TLDR below.
When I was in college, they changed grad requirements in my 2nd to last semester to include 100 hours of community service, over 4 years, ignoring the fact that they broke their own rules on altering curricula. Long story short, the majority of my cohort wound up volunteering at the local *non denominational* homeless shelter run by the local churches. It jaded everyone. No other shelter for about a 2 hour drive, so you had to play by our rules or it was a LONG walk.
1) Can't show up drunk, or smelling like booze or other drugs
2) No food or drinks in the bunks, no drugs or paraphernalia on your person
3) The space and staff are respected, leave your bunk like it was when you arrived
Think it was 3 strikes. If you showed up drunk we'd just not let you in.
Success was measured, and it was a cut and dry pre existing issues ruled the outcomes:
Families, bad luck, >99% housed and working after 3 years in the program.
Families, alcoholism, enrolled in AA >98% housed and working after 3 years in the program.
Single, alcoholism, enrolled in AA >90% housed and working after 3 years in the program.
Single, mental health & drugs, enrolled in NA & actually kept on meds >70% housed and working after 3 years in the program.
80% of the homeless in town had been kicked out of the program, outside of families. The high was worth more than getting back on their own feet, though the local cops enforced drug laws strictly & most left town pretty quickly.
Great AA/NA program, local judge had a sense of humor, if you got a DUI he'd give you the option of either fines & an interlock for a year, or 180 days probation & you had to play taxi for 2-3 other people in your area who went to AA regularly and relied on public transit. Shift lead at the shelter was on his second DUI, pre uber.
Great job placement program, local manufacturing co's always needed a parts gopher or floor sweeps. Can't get drunk/use if you're working the overnight and in counseling in the afternoons before work. Biggest change was when people left the shelters they stopped giving people their own subsidized apartments and put you in a same sex group home if single. Only way to keep people on their meds. Keeping the ill on their meds is 100% the hardest part. Lost 2 friends to it, and watched another torch her marriage because she wouldn't stay on. He got away intact thankfully after a year or so. Was not an issue with families - they either got stable and volunteered in the system, or saved enough to move to be with relatives, with enough to move back to town if it didn't work out.
TLDR:
Use conservatorship laws for those who can't or wont take care of themselves. Quit playing catch and release with addicts.
Institutionalize the mentally ill.
Re open state asylums, remove the homeless from the environment that allowed it to happen. Throwing mentally ill in gpop doesn't do shit but cost tax payers more $$$, just like trying to treat on the streets of cities.
Precondition release on gainful employment and monitored consumption of meds. Monitored group housing solves this. Having outlined conditions for release explained while sober & of sound mind addresses the constitutional issues that pre Regan institutionalization didn't.
This is getting solved in Chattahoochee, not Miami.
This is getting solved in Muscatatuck, not Indianapolis.
This is getting solved in Stockton, not Manhattan Beach.
Arrest and lock them up. I'm done paying for stupid peoples mistakes. It should hurt to be stupid.
They'll have a room with a bed, 3 meals, daily exercise and more difficult access to their drug of choice. Would probably be cheaper, if you take the long view.
If you don't want to arrest them, stop acting like an abused woman thinking you'll change them. Most can't be and don't want to be fixed.
Drug addicts simply need a nice big place like an amazon warehouse to go in, and do drugs until they die in. The operation can even be sanitary, and look surreal like from the movie soylent green, wherein the dead are neatly processed by using a conveyance system. Drug offenders deemed hopeless can be sentenced to live at these places until they process out.
titsonritz
03-18-23, 02:37
Drug addicts simply need a nice big place like an amazon warehouse to go in, and do drugs until they die in. The operation can even be sanitary, and look surreal like from the movie soylent green, wherein the dead are neatly processed by using a conveyance system. Drug offenders deemed hopeless can be sentenced to live at these places until they process out.
The scoops are on their way.
One More Time
03-18-23, 07:37
I could get on board with following the Talibans lead on drug addicts.
They went through Kabul, packed em' in a bus and drove them out of town to the "rehabilitation" camp.
Drug addicts simply need a nice big place like an amazon warehouse to go in, and do drugs until they die in. The operation can even be sanitary, and look surreal like from the movie soylent green, wherein the dead are neatly processed by using a conveyance system. Drug offenders deemed hopeless can be sentenced to live at these places until they process out.
I always viewed the perfect model as "addiction clinics" where you can get any drug you want, but cannot check out until you are 100% no longer under the influence.
arbninftry
03-19-23, 01:22
Solve the electrical problem. Find a river, kick out the people in the flood zone, and make them build a Hydro electric dam. It worked in Oklahoma, we have more than 200 lakes, all are man made. Our homeless problem when these were built plummeted to next to zip. Of course this was during Grapes of Wrath time frame. So your welcome COMMIEFORNIA.
And if you don't know what happened when we were a dust bowl 15 to 25% of our population folded and moved to commiefornia. In some of the local cities they lost up 60% of the population.
In the end a public works project needs to implemented. Work or starve no more lazy ass people.
Eww the ass hole: Yep I am-
I was a social worker for four years, and was on the family services side. This is Food Stamps, and other stuff. There are a lot of people that need help, but there are 5 times that number of people milking the system. I have had clients tell me that they have never worked and will never need to. Food Stamps pay their way. Also the fraud in the system is huge. We would report it and get told to shut up and just hand it out. So the only answer is to stop handing out shit to the animals and put them to work. Or just fu**it. Shut it down, they work or starve.
Solve the electrical problem. Find a river, kick out the people in the flood zone, and make them build a Hydro electric dam. It worked in Oklahoma, we have more than 200 lakes, all are man made. Our homeless problem when these were built plummeted to next to zip. Of course this was during Grapes of Wrath time frame. So your welcome COMMIEFORNIA.
And if you don't know what happened when we were a dust bowl 15 to 25% of our population folded and moved to commiefornia. In some of the local cities they lost up 60% of the population.
In the end a public works project needs to implemented. Work or starve no more lazy ass people.
Eww the ass hole: Yep I am-
I was a social worker for four years, and was on the family services side. This is Food Stamps, and other stuff. There are a lot of people that need help, but there are 5 times that number of people milking the system. I have had clients tell me that they have never worked and will never need to. Food Stamps pay their way. Also the fraud in the system is huge. We would report it and get told to shut up and just hand it out. So the only answer is to stop handing out shit to the animals and put them to work. Or just fu**it. Shut it down, they work or starve.
That will usually do it. As far as dust bowl relocations, California really was a beautiful state until the late 1960s made it a mecca for dirty hippies, dopers and f'ing commies. It's what happens when you surrender the Haight-Ashbury district, allow Berkeley to create Ho Chi Mihn park and nonsense like that.
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