View Full Version : H&K P30 endurance test
This is pretty much ancient history by now, although I'm just now reading about it. Given modern materials and manufacturing processes, could other handguns produce similar results?
The Final Numbers
• 91,622 rounds
• 13 total stoppages
• 322 days
• 110 range trips (average 682 rounds per trip)
• 512 total hours on the range (the P30 was regularly fired 350-550 rounds per hour)
• 15 different types of ammunition from 8 different manufacturers
• Gun cleaned a total of 13 times between the first shot and the last (average 5,769 rounds between cleanings).
https://hk-usa.com/wp-content/uploads/HK_News-Release_P30-Endurance-Test_JAN_2011.pdf
I’d say that most of the current guns out there wouldn’t fare so well over that many rounds.
HK does build well engineered handguns that work and hold up extremely well. Look at HK guns and see how many revisions they’ve had to make to them over the years vs everyone else.
Defaultmp3
03-17-23, 16:29
There's also the case of the USP 9 that went through zero spring replacement through 200,892 rounds (https://twitter.com/HecklerAndKoch/status/1448460025396174848), and the USP 45 that went through >297,000 rounds (https://www.hkpro.com/threads/a-chat-with-an-hk-armorer-must-read.160710/#post-1204796).
A bit more background on the P30 endurance test: https://pistol-training.com/p30-thursday-week-forty-two/
TLG did multiple endurance tests, such as an HK45 with 50k rounds (https://pistol-training.com/hk45-endurance-test-week-thirty-seven-2/), a Gen4 Glock 17 with 71,260 rounds (https://pistol-training.com/gen4-glock-17-endurance-test-month-16/), and a Springfield/Warren 9mm 1911 with 64,579 rounds (https://pistol-training.com/springfieldwarren-9mm-1911-endurance-test-report-31/).
I know Chuck Taylor had a Gen2 Glock 17 with >250k rounds: https://www.ballisticmag.com/glock-17-torture-test-ocean/
I guess the real question is, how much does rate of fire matter for handguns in terms of endurance? For rifles, you can certainly burn up the barrel quite a bit faster depending on cadence, would be curious to see how much the extra heat of rapid fire and the like would impact a handgun. I would think that the ammo used would also make a big difference, such as a bunch of +P ammo versus competition bunny farts. I would cautiously think that most reputable modern 9mm handguns with proper care could reach 100k rounds (Glocks, H&Ks, Berettas, and CZs, probably SIGs, FNs, Walthers, and S&Ws, maybe Springfields) with minor parts replacement.
RIP TLG, he was extremely influential in how I started handgun shooting.
The Dumb Gun Collector
03-17-23, 21:31
Get a P30 dude!
Coal Dragger
03-18-23, 00:40
I’m really having a hard time not ordering a P30 LEM from Langdon Tactical.
I like my HKs.....but don't really shoot them that much or carry them.
Might be time to sell a few...but most likely keeping my P30LEM, it's just a well built gun, well most HKs are..
I own 3 P30’s and think they are amazing guns. I’ve always wondered how the VP9’S would hold up under similar test.
I also think they make the best mags in the world, which is part of their high reliability.
PB
HKs are great guns. The new micro SFP9CC looks great too. Let’s see once it hits the market.
HKs primary market is absolutely first and foremost Military/ Govt sales/ programs, LE sales are a far 2nd place and a huge distant 3rd place ( think a different continent!)is Civilian sales. It’s always been that way and there firearms show it. They have made forays into specific Civy market niches but not as of late. There firearms made to exceed any known testing standards and protocols for various military and Government trials. While the feel and ergonomics of one line might be better subjectively, objectively their accuracy, reliability and quality are a constant. I too look forward to the SFP9CC and see where it goes. I’ll buy one just on HKs reputation which I won’t do with any other firearm manufacturer.
HKs primary market is absolutely first and foremost Military/ Govt sales/ programs, LE sales are a far 2nd place and a huge distant 3rd place ( think a different continent!)is Civilian sales. It’s always been that way and there firearms show it. They have made forays into specific Civy market niches but not as of late. There firearms made to exceed any known testing standards and protocols for various military and Government trials. While the feel and ergonomics of one line might be better subjectively, objectively their accuracy, reliability and quality are a constant. I too look forward to the SFP9CC and see where it goes. I’ll buy one just on HKs reputation which I won’t do with any other firearm manufacturer.
Is the new skinny 9 supposed to be OR, if so I’ll buy one as well.
PB
Adrenaline_6
03-21-23, 14:00
Is the new skinny 9 supposed to be OR, if so I’ll buy one as well.
PB
Pretty sure it is....and comes with paddles.
Yea the pics on HK forums confirmed OR ready.
PB
Get a P30 dude!
I love my P-30S with Gray Guns SRS and 11 pound Lazy Wold mainspring
Adrenaline_6
03-24-23, 09:09
This is pretty much ancient history by now, although I'm just now reading about it. Given modern materials and manufacturing processes, could other handguns produce similar results?
The Final Numbers
• 91,622 rounds
• 13 total stoppages
• 322 days
• 110 range trips (average 682 rounds per trip)
• 512 total hours on the range (the P30 was regularly fired 350-550 rounds per hour)
• 15 different types of ammunition from 8 different manufacturers
• Gun cleaned a total of 13 times between the first shot and the last (average 5,769 rounds between cleanings).
https://hk-usa.com/wp-content/uploads/HK_News-Release_P30-Endurance-Test_JAN_2011.pdf
There's also the case of the USP 9 that went through zero spring replacement through 200,892 rounds (https://twitter.com/HecklerAndKoch/status/1448460025396174848), and the USP 45 that went through >297,000 rounds (https://www.hkpro.com/threads/a-chat-with-an-hk-armorer-must-read.160710/#post-1204796).
A bit more background on the P30 endurance test: https://pistol-training.com/p30-thursday-week-forty-two/
TLG did multiple endurance tests, such as an HK45 with 50k rounds (https://pistol-training.com/hk45-endurance-test-week-thirty-seven-2/), a Gen4 Glock 17 with 71,260 rounds (https://pistol-training.com/gen4-glock-17-endurance-test-month-16/), and a Springfield/Warren 9mm 1911 with 64,579 rounds (https://pistol-training.com/springfieldwarren-9mm-1911-endurance-test-report-31/).
I know Chuck Taylor had a Gen2 Glock 17 with >250k rounds: https://www.ballisticmag.com/glock-17-torture-test-ocean/
I guess the real question is, how much does rate of fire matter for handguns in terms of endurance? For rifles, you can certainly burn up the barrel quite a bit faster depending on cadence, would be curious to see how much the extra heat of rapid fire and the like would impact a handgun. I would think that the ammo used would also make a big difference, such as a bunch of +P ammo versus competition bunny farts. I would cautiously think that most reputable modern 9mm handguns with proper care could reach 100k rounds (Glocks, H&Ks, Berettas, and CZs, probably SIGs, FNs, Walthers, and S&Ws, maybe Springfields) with minor parts replacement.
RIP TLG, he was extremely influential in how I started handgun shooting.
The fire rate was key here in this test. Heat is what killed it. None of his other torture tests had this kind of fire rate. It was regularly fired until it was too hot to touch. Absolutely brutal. He also mentions of those 13 stoppages, 7 were in the beginning due to an out of spec mainspring which was then replaced, 3 were at the end due to a piece of the frame being broken off. So that leaves 3 stoppages averaging 27,000 rounds per stoppage. Who knows how long it would have lasted without the heat factor. Crazy reliability.
TheGhostRider
03-25-23, 17:25
P2000 v3 9mm and P30 v3 9mm are my main squeezes… I’m in awe of their reliability, accuracy/precision. I’ve added the nickel springs and reduced power fpbs and in the p2k the blue hammer spring. Never had a single malfunction. P2k has over 5k rounds. P30 approaching 1k rounds. All are lubed up as needed, cleaned when I think about it. Simply put… These are the guns that I will take into the worst of the worst. My Glocks, while second in line are available IF the HK’s puke.
As an FYI… took me awhile to get use to the HK v3 trigger system. Now I’ve got it figured out I like it. To someone new to HK… you’re going to hate the trigger. Give it time, dri fire the crap out of it. Practice… it’ll grow on you.
The fire rate was key here in this test. Heat is what killed it. None of his other torture tests had this kind of fire rate. It was regularly fired until it was too hot to touch. Absolutely brutal... ....Who knows how long it would have lasted without the heat factor. Crazy reliability.
Agree completely. No one, not even the military / LE / SWAT, needs a handgun to fire that fast in an operational scenario.
I'm sure it would still be going if they didn't beat TFO of it.
P30 is a great handgun and I enjoyed mine, but sold it and went Glock for a number of reasons - mainly (at the time), HK didn't make a good carry gun for me. P30 was too big, P2000 was ok but big for it's capacity, and the P2000SK was ok to carry but the grip length was annoying just a bit to small and the magazines with the finger / pinky lip were just the wrong size. I carried it with flat base magazines but compared to a G19, it just didn't make sense after awhile.
Again, all before the VP9, P2000SK, and whatever else HK is up to these days.
Adrenaline_6
03-26-23, 21:53
Agree completely. No one, not even the military / LE / SWAT, needs a handgun to fire that fast in an operational scenario.
I'm sure it would still be going if they didn't beat TFO of it.
P30 is a great handgun and I enjoyed mine, but sold it and went Glock for a number of reasons - mainly (at the time), HK didn't make a good carry gun for me. P30 was too big, P2000 was ok but big for it's capacity, and the P2000SK was ok to carry but the grip length was annoying just a bit to small and the magazines with the finger / pinky lip were just the wrong size. I carried it with flat base magazines but compared to a G19, it just didn't make sense after awhile.
Again, all before the VP9, P2000SK, and whatever else HK is up to these days.
I carried the P30 for awhile. Still do. Never really had a problem or thought it was too big although I do understand why others do. I'm not a big guy either, though waistline and build is a more important factor.
I also carry a VP9SK and see how a smaller height with shorter grip length helps concealment. Length, not so much.
Adrenaline_6
03-31-23, 14:18
If anyone is looking for a P30, the LE version is on sale for $599.62 (unheard of price) comes with 3 mags and night sights
https://www.cdnnsports.com/hk-p30s-le-9mm-safety-decocker.html?trk_msg=HMS89IJQFPOKB8F1VGLQU6MBGG&trk_contact=1FDC6IA6DJ89MBROP26BSO3DNO&trk_sid=4ERQIK961PFR0CSBOC43N19OEC&trk_link=V8FULPNE7OB4P750FVONI42ILS
*edit - no $100 HK webshop credit like I previously stated - only VP9 has it.*
I don't know anything about the P30, never even shot one. Handled it once or twice. Today at the gun store I handled one to see what it's about. The single action trigger was pretty decent, i could live with it. The DA was very heavy, felt heavier than a stock Beretta 92 DA pull. But the gun felt good in my hand, the grip fitted perfectly, even the DA trigger reach was manageable. The decocker at the back of the slide would take a lot of time to get used to.
I don't know anything about the P30, never even shot one. Handled it once or twice. Today at the gun store I handled one to see what it's about. The single action trigger was pretty decent, i could live with it. The DA was very heavy, felt heavier than a stock Beretta 92 DA pull. But the gun felt good in my hand, the grip fitted perfectly, even the DA trigger reach was manageable. The decocker at the back of the slide would take a lot of time to get used to.
It does. I think the P30 trigger pull is about the same as my USP9 and SIG 2022, it's not as nice as my SIG P226s but also not as long as my Berettas. Berettas are smooth but the pull seems longer to me.
Adrenaline_6
04-03-23, 09:16
It does. I think the P30 trigger pull is about the same as my USP9 and SIG 2022, it's not as nice as my SIG P226s but also not as long as my Berettas. Berettas are smooth but the pull seems longer to me.
Yes...a change to a wolf 12lb hammer spring and an HK light firing pin block spring makes a big difference. Add a short reset kit from Gray Guns and it's even nicer.
The decocker is nice once you do get used to it.
*edit* wrong nomenclature
. Berettas are smooth but the pull seems longer to me.
I guess it's what we're used or accustomed to. I can shoot the Beretta DA first pull all day long. Put a 14 lb hammer spring in and it's a delight to shoot. The LTT "Trigger Job in a Bag" is another great improvement. Decocking a 92 is also instinctive for me.
I guess it's what we're used or accustomed to. I can shoot the Beretta DA first pull all day long. Put a 14 lb hammer spring in and it's a delight to shoot. The LTT "Trigger Job in a Bag" is another great improvement. Decocking a 92 is also instinctive for me.
With the exception of a M9, My 92s are are G's.
I have been surprised that I have been able to shoot my DA 226 gun well. I don't ever remember missing badly in a match on the first shot. Their Legion series have those GG triggers which dont hurt but I feel my Berettas with G decocker feel just as good. They don't stack and are smooth.
My P30 DA/SA feels great too as does my Hk45 that somebody did one hell of a trigger job on. I probably shoot too many guns to realize my potential, but I like shooting many different guns so be it.
PB
It looks like a trend here so I'll pile on. I find my P30 to be harder to shoot accurately than say my CZs. Why? I believe it is because of hammer throw. The 75 system, more so than the Omega, feels shorter in DA, which lends to an easier first shot. People sometimes make a big deal on "lock time" - on the CZ 75 system, that the short throw works the same way and reduces error increasing accuracy.
I have been surprised that I have been able to shoot my DA 226 gun well. I don't ever remember missing badly in a match on the first shot. Their Legion series have those GG triggers which dont hurt but I feel my Berettas with G decocker feel just as good. They don't stack and are smooth.
My P30 DA/SA feels great too as does my Hk45 that somebody did one hell of a trigger job on. I probably shoot too many guns to realize my potential, but I like shooting many different guns so be it.
PB
I grew up on wheels so pretty much I can shoot any DA long pull. When I got my first P226 in 1985 is was a dream gun.
Colt Carson
04-07-23, 16:36
Revolvers were my first handguns, so maybe that’s why I don’t feel the need to replace all my springs. I will say that if you have an HK with the heavy firing pin block spring, replacing it with the lighter (HK part) FPBS will make a noticeable difference in the trigger pull.
MadAngler1
04-10-23, 23:22
I’ve had trigger time with Berettas, Sig P226s but only a few CZs. My HK P30 with a Gray Guns trigger job bests them all. It truly is an outstanding DA/SA pistol. Could it be improved? Of course, but it is pretty hard to beat.
I grew up on wheels so pretty much I can shoot any DA long pull. When I got my first P226 in 1985 is was a dream gun.
I remember watching one of those shows on TV where guys competed with anything and everything. Long guns, short guns, bows....and they guy that was least familiar with everything was the Cowboy gun shooter and yet he smoked everyone. Shooting those wheel guns or growing up with wheels has to be a great advantage. Shoot the best with the worst and its great training. I suspected he would do well and oh boy was I right. The Glock guy was lost with a wheel gun.
That show looked very cool.
PB
I remember watching one of those shows on TV where guys competed with anything and everything. Long guns, short guns, bows....and they guy that was least familiar with everything was the Cowboy gun shooter and yet he smoked everyone. Shooting those wheel guns or growing up with wheels has to be a great advantage. Shoot the best with the worst and its great training. I suspected he would do well and oh boy was I right. The Glock guy was lost with a wheel gun.
That show looked very cool.
PB
Man, if I had to run stages with a SAA I'd be "almost" Jerry by now. That stuff looks like fun but I can't play "dress up" that hard. Would love to run stages with a SAA and a Winchester 94 even though I'd probably be among the slowest shooters that day.
Got a HK P-30SK tonight; added Trijicon HD’s and Gray Guns SRS. This is my second P-30, first one being a P-30S V-3.
I remember watching one of those shows on TV where guys competed with anything and everything. Long guns, short guns, bows....and they guy that was least familiar with everything was the Cowboy gun shooter and yet he smoked everyone. Shooting those wheel guns or growing up with wheels has to be a great advantage. Shoot the best with the worst and its great training. I suspected he would do well and oh boy was I right. The Glock guy was lost with a wheel gun.
That show looked very cool.
PB
Honestly not sure we can call them the worst. In the early 80s Jack Weaver was destroying guys running 1911s with wheel guns on identical stages.
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