View Full Version : Are ALL the basic PSA lowers drilled and tapped for a standard Tensioning Screw?
[EDITED SEVERAL DAYS LATER] Today I looked through the Customer Q&A on the regular non-blem product page for the lower rcvr in question (lots more Q&A there than on the blem page). Sure enough, the Tensioning Screw question was asked-and-answered: The lower receiver is NOT drilled and tapped for a tensioning screw. Also, I found a phone number for PSA, but don't know if they ever answer it.
I find no method of communicating with PSA regarding basic pre-purchase questions. I posted a public "Question" on the PSA product page, but it could take months before somebody finds and answers it.
Basic PSA stripped lowers (https://palmettostatearmory.com/ar-15/lowers/stripped-lowers.html) cost $60 at present ($50 for blems). I'm interested in the "Stealth" version.
Q1. Can you tell me whether that particular lower receiver is drilled and tapped for a standard 1/4-24 Tensioning Screw? A nylon-tipped screw that threads up through the floor of the lower receiver (above the grip) and creates tension by pressing against the upper receiver, thereby eliminating looseness between upper and lower receivers.
Q2. Are ALL the basic PSA lowers drilled and tapped for a standard Tensioning Screw?
I might choose a lower rcvr other than the Stealth version.
Thanks
I find no method of communicating with PSA regarding basic pre-purchase questions. I posted a public "Question" on the PSA product page, but it could take months before somebody finds and answers it.
Basic PSA stripped lowers (https://palmettostatearmory.com/ar-15/lowers/stripped-lowers.html) cost $60 at present ($50 for blems). I'm interested in the "Stealth" version.
Q1. Can you tell me whether that particular lower receiver is drilled and tapped for a standard 1/4-24 Tensioning Screw? A nylon-tipped screw that threads up through the floor of the lower receiver (above the grip) and creates tension by pressing against the upper receiver, thereby eliminating looseness between upper and lower receivers.
Q2. Are ALL the basic PSA lowers drilled and tapped for a standard Tensioning Screw?
I might choose a lower rcvr other than the Stealth version.
Thanks
A better question would be, why would you want that?
A better question would be, why would you want that?
I'd forgotten about that "feature". But perhaps he's wanting to make sure he does NOT buy a lower with that.
If you are convinced that you want the cheapest lower possible (cost, quality, etc), you may find the $30 bucks you saved isn't worth it if and when you run into other issues later on.
Is there a reason you are seeking PSA, and if that is what you want, why not get one that says their name proudly across it?
A better question would be, why would you want that?
He just joined up as a new member to this board, so I'm willing to cut him some slack and assume he doesn't know about the reputation the company has. Its also entirely possible that I'm wrong and we are being trolled...
Thanks for the warm welcome.
What's yer problem with PSA?
What's yer problem with Tensioning Screws?
PSA is bottom of the barrel AR parts. Tensioning screws are not needed. You will find that is the opinion of the majority of this board's long time members.
Thanks for the warm welcome.
What's yer problem with PSA?
What's yer problem with Tensioning Screws?
I don’t have a problem with PSA per se. I own one and for what it is, there’s nothing wrong with it. It’s a budget AR and worth what I paid for it. I don’t have a problem with tensioning screws because I don’t have any. They’re unnecessary at best.
As for the “warm welcome”, you’re not going to find a lot of emotional investment in budget AR’s or gimmicky doodads on this forum. It’s just not what this corner of the internet is about. If you’re capable of being a bit thicker skinned, it’s a great place to learn though, so welcome! :)
"Standard tensioning screw"
Hmmmm...
If you are convinced that you want the cheapest lower possible (cost, quality, etc), you may find the $30 bucks you saved isn't worth it if and when you run into other issues later on.
Is there a reason you are seeking PSA, and if that is what you want, why not get one that says their name proudly across it?
What problems have you had with PSA lowers? YOU, not guys parroting you or the late Will Larson.
I have a bunch of PSA lowers because 1) early on I was too dumb to know better; 2) Recently, I've bought several because of the silly logos some of them have. As an example, the Karen lower with the funny statements for safe/semi/auto; I buy them for my wall board of AR logos, although I did strip out my wife's PCC lower and replace it with the Karen one.
Kind of a funny thing, I have a set of pin gauges and all the holes have gauged within +/- ; apparently they are in spec, because dayum, the mags lock in and feed properly, even those pesky PMAGS that BCM's don't like; safeties install okay and work, firing groups assemble okay and work, pins don't walk. As I mentioned several years ago, they don't have as much forging flash as most Colt's I've looked at.
I haven't bought any recently, because there is enough 'PSA get you killed on da' streetz' going around the internet that the PSA logo - which is fugly - kills value. I do, however have several laying around in my TEOTWAWKI spares store.
So to sum it up, the AR lower is a much simpler CNC machining task than say an aerospace manifold. As the material is correct, just about any brand will work.
hotbiggun42
03-29-23, 23:03
I have the grumpy joe PSA lower and i dont recall a tension screw.
Thanks for the warm welcome.
What's yer problem with PSA?
What's yer problem with Tensioning Screws?
To answer your original question: None of the PSA lowers I possess are drilled and tapped for tensioning screws. These lowers range from 2012ish to within the last year. If you google PSA upper tensioning screw you get several hits on AR15.com (called TOS - 'the other site' on this forum) which indicate at least some PSA lowers have been drilled and tapped.
I looked in my box of lowers which haven't been built yet and this is what I found:
DRILLED FOR TENSIONING SCREW: Aero Precision; Battle Arms Development (BAD); Cross Machine and Tool CMT). I'm thinking the Aero would be the least expensive of these.
DON'T BOTHER LOOKIG AT THESE, THEY AREN'T DRILLED: Geissele; Wilson Combat; Alexandria Pro-Fab*; Noreen Firearms*; Anderson Arms; PSA.
* these two are my favorite 'no logo' lowers.
The reason folks are saying you don't need a tensioning screw is that it doesn't improve accuracy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXdjdeFClmw
One More Time
03-30-23, 07:16
It doesn't improve accuracy but a rifle that flops like a rag doll is something I don't care for.
I have an Aero with it and appreciate it.
I don't utilize the BHO screw or take down detent though.
That seems a bit much.
Over size PSA take down pins turned to fit makes them tight.
I have had dozens of psa lowers without a problem. They were no better or worse then lowers from other more reputable plans. None of them have tensioning screws.
Soli Deo Gloria
I agree that an excessive amount of play is annoying, but the tension screw is just another unneeded fastener that could move/come loose. And if you remove it, it's an open access for debris. It's just not needed.
And I don't know of any issues with PSA lowers. The should be machined to spec.
I agree that an excessive amount of play is annoying, but the tension screw is just another unneeded fastener that could move/come loose. And if you remove it, it's an open access for debris. It's just not needed.
And I don't know of any issues with PSA lowers. The should be machined to spec.
Agree on all points... I do have an Aero lower with the tension screw and the only reason I didn't throw it in the scrap metal bucket when I was assembling the lower was so that it would act as a plug for the unnecessary hole in the lower. Otherwise (like you said) it's just an open access for crap to collect.
I was a bigger fan of Aero lowers when they didn't have this feature and now I avoid them because of it.
One More Time
03-30-23, 10:13
The tension screw needs to glued in as well or it will back off.
I opted for a set screw on top of it.
Due to tolerance of the threads I had to find the sweet spot.
Adjust loose and tighten the set screw then check pin tension.
I have the grumpy joe PSA lower and i dont recall a tension screw.
Thanks for ANSWERING the QUESTION.
What problems have you had with PSA lowers? YOU, not guys parroting you or the late Will Larson. [...] So to sum it up, the AR lower is a much simpler CNC machining task than say an aerospace manifold. As the material is correct, just about any brand will work.
Thanks for your post.
I'm new to the AR platform, but not new to building military arms. The kind that you can't just assemble with your hex key. I have always put my faith in .30cal and my rifle of choice has been the FN FAL. I recently purchased an inexpensive AR15 just to have something chambered in 5.56. It turns out I really like this rifle. Modularity. Ubiquity. Accuracy.
I'm considering an 11.5" pistol build based on a railed nitride PSA kit. I'll need a lower. I figure a PSA lower and upper will mate properly. I assume the lower receiver parts in the PSA pistol kit will fit a standard PSA lower. I don't want to advertise PSA or any other manufacturer, so I'm interested in the "Stealth" rcvr. And yes, budget is an issue. I hope my reasoning is acceptable to the EVCs* on this board...
In researching this matter, THIS ARTICLE (https://www.pewpewtactical.com/best-ar-15-lower-receiver/) is one of multiple sources suggesting that forged PSA lowers are a solid choice. Scroll about halfway down to the heading Best AR-15 Lower Receivers. I also read lots of brief reviews written by satisfied PSA build customers.
Some people aren't capable of getting good results from less expensive gear. Others are. Some people think they can impress others by wasting money on "what's trending" and by "talking tough." Others don't.
* Elite Virtual Commandos
To answer your original question: None of the PSA lowers I possess are drilled and tapped for tensioning screws. These lowers range from 2012ish to within the last year. If you google PSA upper tensioning screw you get several hits on AR15.com (called TOS - 'the other site' on this forum) which indicate at least some PSA lowers have been drilled and tapped.
Thanks for this overview, and for your previous post.
I Googled the question yesterday and found a link to an unreliable source (maybe Reddit...) that claimed his PSA lower is drilled and tapped. Couldn't find any information about which PSA lowers (models or years of mfr) are configured for the tensioning screw. So I posted a "Question" on the PSA product page; the only means of asking PSA a question. And FWIW, I agree with the PSA detractors here; it's ridiculous to not be able to SPEAK with a company to whom you're paying $500+.
FWIW, the AR I just bought locks up tight, and is tapped for the tensioning screw. I'll get a screw for this rifle, and will try to find that feature in any AR rifle I purchase, in any caliber. EVERYTHING wears after a certain number of iterations. Everything. One day my tight new AR will be loose, and I am not accustomed to "loose weapons." Whether it affects accuracy for the EVCs or not, I will shoot better with a rifle that is squared away.
It doesn't improve accuracy but a rifle that flops like a rag doll is something I don't care for.
Ditto
I have an Aero with it and appreciate it.
I don't utilize the BHO screw or take down detent though.
That seems a bit much.
Belt and suspenders. On the other hand, better to have too much than not enough. I learned about "tension screws" by reading about Aero lowers. I would buy one—they seem like excellent quality—but this being my first AR build, I figured PSA upper+lower would be a convenient, inexpensive way to (pretty much) guarantee correct mating.
Over size PSA take down pins turned to fit makes them tight.
Noob AR question: Are you saying PSA pins are oversized in general? Or are you saying PSA also makes special oversized pins that can be turned down to fit Aero lower receivers (which require slightly larger diameter pins...?)? Bear with me. I'm new around here. =]
I have had dozens of psa lowers without a problem. They were no better or worse then lowers from other more reputable plans. None of them have tensioning screws.
Soli Deo Gloria
That's what my recent research indicates (see the link in my post #19).
Thanks for confirmation, and amen: SOLI DEO GLORIA
I agree that an excessive amount of play is annoying, but the tension screw is just another unneeded fastener that could move/come loose. And if you remove it, it's an open access for debris. It's just not needed.
I'm hoping a drop of blue LocTite will resolve both issues. And based on my limited AR knowledge, crud entering through the pistol grip seems like the least of my crud concerns. =D I'm used to gas pistons wherein carbon is mostly contained at the piston face. Gonna have to get used to this AR direct impingment system and all the fouling in upper and lower receivers.
And I don't know of any issues with PSA lowers. The should be machined to spec.
I appreciate the clarity.
I'm sure the lock tight will be fine.
I'm sure the lock tight will be fine.
Thanks, and I agree with your signature line as appears at the tail end of your posts. A lot of people are wasting a LOT of money. =D
titsonritz
03-30-23, 12:31
This one of things that will automatic rule out a lower for me. The other "improvement" I hate and will not own are the retarded lowers with a threaded bolt catch pin. F' that crap, learn how to build and buy the correct tools. "Improvements" my ass.
bobcatdriver
03-30-23, 12:51
I've had a couple Aero Precision lowers, but wasn't crazy about the tensioning screw that you had to adjust. When the Sig M400 first came out, it had a tensioning plunger, as mine did. McMaster-Carr has the tensioning plunger that works really well. I know there is no accuracy benefit.
https://www.mcmaster.com/stainless-steel-spring-plungers/thread-size~1-4-28/
Thanks, and I agree with your signature line as appears at the tail end of your posts. A lot of people are wasting a LOT of money. =D
Quoted one of our sage members here! ;)
One More Time
03-30-23, 13:02
Noob AR question: Are you saying PSA pins are oversized in general? Or are you saying PSA also makes special oversized pins that can be turned down to fit Aero lower receivers (which require slightly larger diameter pins...?)? Bear with me. I'm new around here. =]
The take down pin I got in a PSA LPK about 5 years ago was out of spec at 0.258"
There wasn't any LPK's in town and I didn't feel like waiting on one so I chucked it up in a drill and turned it down with a small file untill it fit.
Now I just avoid all that and get a BCM LPK.
The take down pin I got in a PSA LPK about 5 years ago was out of spec at 0.258"
There wasn't any LPK's in town and I didn't feel like waiting on one so I chucked it up in a drill and turned it down with a small file untill it fit.
Now I just avoid all that and get a BCM LPK.
PSA has a big following on TOS (big shocker). It's getting to the point where you will be laughed off the forum if you bring up any of PSA's issues. But the reality is that their parts are questionable. Stripped lowers and uppers from them are likely fine, as even current Anderson's seem to be fine for the most part. Where PSA's quality really suffers is in their assembly and QC.
PSA has a big following on TOS (big shocker). It's getting to the point where you will be laughed off the forum if you bring up any of PSA's issues. But the reality is that their parts are questionable.
I have a buddy who still posts over there. He tells me about the goofy stuff they post. Threads about poop, and posting pics of their ugly wives and shit. There's a handful of legit gun guys who post there and NOT here. I don't get it.
I've had a couple Aero Precision lowers, but wasn't crazy about the tensioning screw that you had to adjust. When the Sig M400 first came out, it had a tensioning plunger, as mine did. McMaster-Carr has the tensioning plunger that works really well. I know there is no accuracy benefit.
https://www.mcmaster.com/stainless-steel-spring-plungers/thread-size~1-4-28/
Thanks for the McMaster-Carr link. The nylon-tippped screw can be had at Brownells, Primary Arms and elsewhere.
The take down pin I got in a PSA LPK about 5 years ago was out of spec at 0.258"
There wasn't any LPK's in town and I didn't feel like waiting on one so I chucked it up in a drill and turned it down with a small file untill it fit.
Now I just avoid all that and get a BCM LPK.
I see. I'm not familiar with BCM yet. I'll look into them.
If I understand correctly, PSA quality is much improved (generally) compared to five years ago. And like you, I get good results by chucking small cylindrical parts in a drill press and applying file, then caliper/micrometer until I get there.
I have a buddy who still posts over there. He tells me about the goofy stuff they post. Threads about poop, and posting pics of their ugly wives and shit. There's a handful of legit gun guys who post there and NOT here. I don't get it.
General Discussion is crazy over there, and for the most part I stay out of it. Lots of the PSA love fest seems to originate from the GD forums. As far as the technical forum side of things it's like a different world, but there's still a lot of weeding to do to realize who the few knowledgeable members are. And that's not something that's easy for a newcomer to that forum.
It helps if you've been there from the beginning to see through the signal to noise ratio.
It helps if you've been there from the beginning to see through the signal to noise ratio.
Years back, I signed up again and posted like a saint... as an experiment. I stayed in the technicalish forums and only posted in my lane, but posted as an experienced loader/shooter. They locked my account without reason or explaination. I finally said "Eff It!". Their paranoia (at the expense of legitimate posting) was proof enough that their core membership was booger eaters who color their receiver engravings and carve foam cut outs in their hit man style rifle cases.
PSA has a big following on TOS (big shocker). It's getting to the point where you will be laughed off the forum if you bring up any of PSA's issues. But the reality is that their parts are questionable. Stripped lowers and uppers from them are likely fine, as even current Anderson's seem to be fine for the most part. Where PSA's quality really suffers is in their assembly and QC.
I've been reading there and reading here, and decided the general attitude was better here. Not as much adversarial BS, but then, right off the bat my first post gets attacked. Whatever.
I'm not going to mention who built my first/inexpensive AR. I'll just say that I hear you regarding the importance of solid Assembly and QC. I also have a new (and unfortunate) appreciation for how important an honest, transparent commitment to Service after the sale can be.
My intended pistol build is based on a complete assembled PSA upper. Are you saying I cannot trust PSA to assemble and headspace the upper?
I don't own headspace gauges for 5.56 yet. When YOU GUYS buy an assembled upper or complete rifle—from PSA or any other mfr—are you checking head space before firing?
Years back, I signed up again and posted like a saint... as an experiment. I stayed in the technicalish forums and only posted in my lane, but posted as an experienced loader/shooter. They locked my account without reason or explaination. I finally said "Eff It!". Their paranoia (at the expense of legitimate posting) was proof enough that their core membership was booger eaters who color their receiver engravings and carve foam cut outs in their hit man style rifle cases.
Mark, the John Wick Kits are in full regalia over on HKPro. Repleat with fake gold coins and such. I wouldn't be surprised if they have them cemented in their basement floors.......So, whilst TOS is full of Booger eaters, and I completely agree, it ain't the only game for booger eaters. :)
Years back, I signed up again and posted like a saint... as an experiment. I stayed in the technicalish forums and only posted in my lane, but posted as an experienced loader/shooter. They locked my account without reason or explaination. I finally said "Eff It!". Their paranoia (at the expense of legitimate posting) was proof enough that their core membership was booger eaters who color their receiver engravings and carve foam cut outs in their hit man style rifle cases.
Wow, I never knew you came back. The thing that's really bizarre to think about is how different the place was back in the early days... Most of those guys are gone from there and a lot came here. You still see an original member pop in there from time to time, but sometimes it's so long in between that you'd think they passed away.
I've only ever once received a warning on my account over there if I remember right, but it was for some stupid misunderstanding and I was caught in the crossfire.
You know, I don't even think the vast majority of the members over there have any clue where "87" came from, but they all use it constantly... IMO they owe you reparations. ;)
My 2 cents on two things:
#1 Until (hopefully) one of the many pistol brace lawsuits puts the kibosh on the AFT over-reach, I would avoid any pistol builds unless you plan on SBR'ing it.
#2 Buy a Springfield Saint if you want a adjustable lower/upper tightness (gimmick) lol, but remember this weapon was designed to send many rounds downrange in a hurry, NOT a sniper/precision rifle.
Welcome to the M4 forums.
I didn't realize TOS was associated/affiliated with PSA. I've been reading there and reading here, and decided the general tone/attitude was better here at M4carbine. Not as much adversarial BS here, but then, right off the bat some here attacked my first post...so who knows.
I'm not going to mention who built my recently purchased first AR / inexpensive AR. I'll just say that I hear you regarding the importance of solid Assembly and QC. I also have a new (and unfortunate) appreciation for how important an honest, transparent commitment to Service after the sale can be.
If I build the intended pistol it'll be based on a complete assembled PSA upper, and I'll assemble the trigger group, etc. Are you saying I cannot trust PSA to assemble and headspace the upper?
I don't own headspace gauges for 5.56 (yet) and don't want to buy them right now. When YOU GUYS buy an assembled upper or complete rifle—from PSA or any other mfr—are you checking head space before firing?
ARFCOM isn't really affiliated with PSA, their popularity there is simply due to the lack of knowledge that the majority of the members have, cheap is popular with them and they have a "parts is parts" mentality. But at the same time I can't say PSA hasn't improved in some ways... Bringing Mike from NoDak for the H&R stuff was a step in a possibly good direction. I haven't heard of a headspace issue with PSA, but I believe most owners don't check no matter the brand they bought. Canted FSBs still seem to be a problem for PSA, most of the time it's an assembly issue, but it should be caught in QC before heading out the door.
Wow, I never knew you came back. The thing that's really bizarre to think about is how different the place was back in the early days... Most of those guys are gone from there and a lot came here. You still see an original member pop in there from time to time, but sometimes it's so long in between that you'd think they passed away.
I've only ever once received a warning on my account over there if I remember right, but it was for some stupid misunderstanding and I was caught in the crossfire.
You know, I don't even think the vast majority of the members over there have any clue where "87" came from, but they all use it constantly... IMO they owe you reparations. ;)
I know "Lotboy" who posts there. He said Lumpy196 is still there, but doesn't post here anymore???? Lotboy said they still use "87" from time to time. If you see Lotboy or lumpy, say hi for me!!
Mark, the John Wick Kits are in full regalia over on HKPro. Repleat with fake gold coins and such. I wouldn't be surprised if they have them cemented in their basement floors.......So, whilst TOS is full of Booger eaters, and I completely agree, it ain't the only game for booger eaters. :)
Lol! Posing with your ARs for the coolest pictures on Instagram is the main goal of many it seems. :laugh:
Thanks, for the insights and the Welcome.
1. Point taken on the pistol brace legal quandry. My understanding is (maybe) that the pistol itself is not in question. The firearm will be considered "legal" if the brace is removed (for now anyway, peasants!) So if I do this before the matter is settled, I'll just remove the brace and learn to shoot it by pushing out using a sling. Or maybe I'll just jamb that buffer tube into my shoulder and blam, blam, blam. If it's too short, I might concoct a "buffer tube extension" out of something "cylindrical and resilient." =D
2. I'm not sure why some here hate dat tenshun skrew. I don't expect to need it for a while, but when/if things loosen up, I'll just tighten it until it exherts slight pressure and CARRY ON. I appreciate the Saint suggestion, though.
I know "Lotboy" who posts there. He said Lumpy196 is still there, but doesn't post here anymore???? Lotboy said they still use "87" from time to time. If you see Lotboy or lumpy, say hi for me!!
It's rare, but I have seen Lumpy from time to time over there. It's like 2 or 3 times a year max. He seems to not get in any back and forth discussion though. He just makes his comment and he's out. He's like a ninja. :ph34r:
I see 87 in a comment at least twice a week, but I'm mainly in the tech forums. I believe it's still used daily in general. I see it every time I'm scrolling through there. :lol:
I see 87 in a comment at least twice a week, but I'm mainly in the tech forums. I believe it's still used daily in general. I see it every time I'm scrolling through there. :lol:
That's hillarious. I don't think I've ever posted it here.
2. I'm not sure why some here hate dat tenshun skrew. I don't expect to need it for a while, but when/if things loosen up, I'll just tighten it until it exherts slight pressure and CARRY ON. I appreciate the Saint suggestion, though.
I don't think it's that we hate it, it's more we just don't see the need. I've had AR's for over 20 years without it and many here have had them for many years longer. It's just hard to see the issue that needs addressed when you've gotten by so long without.
Over the years we've all seen so many gimmicky items and fads come and go, a lot of it is just to set one manufacture apart from another. I mean, look at all the extra features! It must be better! Right? Truth is, in the end less turns out to be more and the simpler it is the better. After so long a lot of guys revert to simpler set ups and let go of the gimmicks and fads.
Now can that be said for something as simple as a tension screw or a threaded bolt catch pin? It's really not a huge deal, but it really doesn't make or break anything in particular.
I can say I've never had any issue for lack of those things. But I can think of ways that they could either be an annoyance or a real bummer. On the "real bummer" side you could pretty easily strip out the aluminum threads in the lower for a threaded bolt catch pin if you are the ham fisted type. And on the "annoyance" side if you like to swap uppers on your lower that was set with the tension screw for one particular upper you might have to loosen that tension screw just to get any other upper to fit.
That's hillarious. I don't think I've ever posted it here.
I think you're right. :blink: At least I haven't seen it from you here.
One More Time
03-30-23, 16:13
My first AR was a budget PSA kit 5.56 NATO and Anderson lower.
Already mentioned the take down pin.
The 16" carbine gas barrel had a gas port size of 0.068" and wouldn't close on a Colt spec go gauge.
It didn't group very well so I ditched it for a Faxon barrel.
Putzed with that and had to put a BRT gas drive in it to calm it down.
PSA had the 14.7" FN barreled uppers for a decent price so I picked one up.
Lightweight profile with a proper 0.076" gas port.
Closed nice on a Colt spec go gauge.
The premium upper fit a bit tighter and I had to turn the pin down some more to fit.
That ones a keeper.
Sold off the Faxon barreled upper.
booger eaters who color their receiver engravings and carve foam cut outs in their hit man style rifle cases.
We're not supposed to carve foam cut-outs? :confused:
We're not supposed to carve foam cut-outs? :confused:
It's a little "hollywood" for me. I'm more into the mechanics of good guns and good ammunition.
I don't think it's that we hate it, it's more we just don't see the need. I've had AR's for over 20 years without it and many here have had them for many years longer. It's just hard to see the issue that needs addressed when you've gotten by so long without.
Point taken. My AR experience: I bought an inexpensive specimen in December and have been waiting for Spring to shoot it. So I'm here to learn. I have handled a couple of ARs exhibiting loose receiver mating and decided I NEVER want a rifle like that. Until recently I didn't think much of AR15s, and that looseness was a factor. With the rcvrs being aluminum, I won't be surprised if looseness develops over time, but I'm encouraged to hear of your 20 years of positive experience.
[...] in the end less turns out to be more and the simpler it is the better.
I'm a big fan of 'Less is More' in many respects. Most of my firearms are 100% stock.
Additions to my first and perhaps only AR: The small Magpul M-Lok angled foregrip, Romeo 5 red dot, backup sights and a sling (and maybe an adjustable gas block if existing doesn't work out).
[...]you could pretty easily strip out the aluminum threads in the lower for a threaded bolt catch pin if you are the ham fisted type.
Good point. I'm not used to aluminum receivers, so was thinking in terms of tapping steel.
And on the "annoyance" side if you like to swap uppers on your lower that was set with the tension screw for one particular upper you might have to loosen that tension screw just to get any other upper to fit.
Another good point. It hadn't occured to me because I'm not likely to swap uppers. I read recently about how tricky it can be to get the buffer weight+spring dialed in for some calibers and for some upper assemblies. I don't expect to get hooked on expensive aftermarket triggers or zoot-capri furniture, so it's probably best for me to build an entire rifle in each case.
One More Time
03-30-23, 16:53
Get a barrel with the proper gas port size with a solid BCG and the rest is gravy.
I built mine to run with an A2 rifle or A5 with an A5H2 buffer.
Or a carbine extension, blue spring and H1 buffer.
My first AR was a budget PSA kit 5.56 NATO and Anderson lower. Already mentioned the take down pin.
The 16" carbine barrel had a gas port size of 0.068" and wouldn't close on a Colt spec go gauge.
a) I would expect PSA to correct that.
b) Correct me if I'm wrong. It looks like no big deal to remove an AR gas block. Remove set screw at 6:00 and press (or tap) the block toward the muzzle. Once off, is there a reason why you didn't try drilling out the existing gas port to a larger diameter?
Putzed with that and had to put a BRT gas drive in it to calm it down.
Just Googled "BRT Gas Drive" per your remarks. I'll read up; it might help me avoid installing an adjustable gas block (if necessary).
One More Time
03-30-23, 17:47
a) I would expect PSA to correct that.
b) Correct me if I'm wrong. It looks like no big deal to remove an AR gas block. Remove set screw at 6:00 and press (or tap) the block toward the muzzle. Once off, is there a reason why you didn't try drilling out the existing gas port to a larger diameter?
Just Googled "BRT Gas Drive" per your remarks. I'll read up; it might help me avoid installing an adjustable gas block (if necessary).
The gas block is easily removed, I did it to dimple the set screw and find out the gas port size which is too big IMO and would need a BRT gas drive.
Not worth it for a $50 barrel.
Found out Faxon favors a larger than needed gas port as well.
Other than not dimpled the PSA FN barrel is good to go.
By the time I was getting parts together for my second rifle I had a good handle on what to look for and buy.
This is a good reference point for barrel length, gas system and buffer weight.
https://soldiersystems.net/2020/08/10/fighting-gun-101-gas-ports/
The gas block is easily removed, I did it to dimple the set screw and find out the gas port size which is too big IMO and would need a BRT gas drive.
Not worth it for a $50 barrel.
Found out Faxon favors a larger than needed gas port as well.
Other than not dimpled the PSA FN barrel is good to go.
By the time I was getting parts together for my second rifle I had a good handle on what to look for and buy.
This is a good reference point for barrel length, gas system and buffer weight.
https://soldiersystems.net/2020/08/10/fighting-gun-101-gas-ports/
That's a great link. Thanks. I watched the video and read the text of the post.
This is off topic for this thread, and I'll research the matter for more detail, BUT...since the AR seems to be particularly sensitive to the size of the gas port, would the following be a reasonable approach?
1. Enlarge the gas port to accommodate the worst likely ammunition, and worst conditions.
2. Mount an adjustable gas block.
3. Open it all the way to accommodate the worst ammo or worst conditions.
4. Close it down as needed to accommodate good ammo and good conditions.
Seems like that would be the most versatile approach. Or does it not?
One More Time
03-30-23, 19:24
These days steel cased ammo isn't any cheaper than brass.
I told the guy I sold the Faxon upper to run brass and it would be fine, he bought Tula and it choked.
I had put a lower together for him configured like I had it running with an A5 extension, green spring and A5H2.
So then I gave him one of my carbine springs and buffer with a spacer and it works with that.
I haven't tried steel cased ammo in any of my rifles as I don't have any and don't plan on buying any.
But I had the car buffer, spring and spacer to try out if I ever did.
If the gas system is tight it doesn't need a gas port big enough to stub a cigar out in to be reliable using 5.56 brass cased ammo.
To me, adjustable gas blocks are just something else to fiddle with or have an issue, much easier to get a barrel that is sized right to start with and use a quality gas block, tube and BCG.
That and I pretty much just lube them back up, wipe it down and put it away.
Working the AGB screw after every session to keep it from getting carbon locked isn't gonna happen for me.
One More Time
03-30-23, 19:45
As to a good BCG...
Ton of good info here.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?234800-quot-Best-quot-BCG
PSA has a big following on TOS (big shocker). It's getting to the point where you will be laughed off the forum if you bring up any of PSA's issues. But the reality is that their parts are questionable. Stripped lowers and uppers from them are likely fine, as even current Anderson's seem to be fine for the most part. Where PSA's quality really suffers is in their assembly and QC.
I’ve assembled quite a few AR’s with PSA parts. The only two out of spec parts I’ve received from PSA were a stripped upper that wasn’t machined square, and a bad disconnector. I tossed the disco and subbed a spare I had on hand. I called PSA on the upper since it was a family member’s part. I sent them pics showing it was out of spec and they sent me a replacement that was in spec, free of charge. They didn’t want the out of spec upper back. So it went in the scrap bin.
Everything else has worked out just fine from them and their CS made right, so I have no complaints. Then again I’m not an AR or gunsmith neophyte, so it’s easy for me to rectify any issues before I or someone I build a gun for trusts it for serious use.
When people ask me for AR recommendations, I always caveat based on what they’re expecting to get from the beginning. If they need something trustworthy but don’t know much, I tend to steer them up the ladder a bit. The whole “buy once, cry once” adage still applies in most cases. If you know what you’re doing, bargains can be easier to work with.
Point taken. My AR experience: I bought an inexpensive specimen in December and have been waiting for Spring to shoot it. So I'm here to learn. I have handled a couple of ARs exhibiting loose receiver mating and decided I NEVER want a rifle like that. Until recently I didn't think much of AR15s, and that looseness was a factor. With the rcvrs being aluminum, I won't be surprised if looseness develops over time, but I'm encouraged to hear of your 20 years of positive experience.
I'm a big fan of 'Less is More' in many respects. Most of my firearms are 100% stock.
Additions to my first and perhaps only AR: The small Magpul M-Lok angled foregrip, Romeo 5 red dot, backup sights and a sling (and maybe an adjustable gas block if existing doesn't work out).
Good point. I'm not used to aluminum receivers, so was thinking in terms of tapping steel.
Another good point. It hadn't occured to me because I'm not likely to swap uppers. I read recently about how tricky it can be to get the buffer weight+spring dialed in for some calibers and for some upper assemblies. I don't expect to get hooked on expensive aftermarket triggers or zoot-capri furniture, so it's probably best for me to build an entire rifle in each case.
"Dialing in" is realistically only required for gamer guns and suppressors, at least for 5.56. A quality barrel, BCG, and trigger group in decent receivers should just work with a rifle, A5, or carbine (H1 or H2) recoil system. All my ARs run fine when reasonably clean and lubed with ammo from Tula to full power 5.56 spec ammo. My 18" rifle is the only one that's vaguely finicky and it just needs to be well lubed.
I would rather swap between a standard and a BRT reduced port gas tube for suppressed use than mess with an AGB.
Other calibers? Meh. 5.56 and 22 lr are the only AR rounds worth shooting :)
Andy
"Dialing in" is realistically only required for gamer guns and suppressors, at least for 5.56. A quality barrel, BCG, and trigger group in decent receivers should just work with a rifle, A5, or carbine (H1 or H2) recoil system. All my ARs run fine when reasonably clean and lubed with ammo from Tula to full power 5.56 spec ammo. My 18" rifle is the only one that's vaguely finicky and it just needs to be well lubed.
I would rather swap between a standard and a BRT reduced port gas tube for suppressed use than mess with an AGB.
Other calibers? Meh. 5.56 and 22 lr are the only AR rounds worth shooting :)
Andy
THIS.
It’s why the easy button is buying a good brand mil spec rifle and be done with it. That does not mean expensive. A decent Colt will do.
I don’t even know why people new to the game want to tweak and customize ARs so much. Tension screws, gas ports, gas blocks, buffer springs, BCGs, triggers, and on and on. Get a rifle that runs right and you don’t have to fiddle with that crap.
Some uppers and lowers have a looser fit, it's really not an issue and easy to "fix" with foam tape shims under the rear takedown pin boss if it bugs you.
Thanks for this perspective.
"Dialing in" is realistically only required for gamer guns and suppressors, at least for 5.56. A quality barrel, BCG, and trigger group in decent receivers should just work with a rifle, A5, or carbine (H1 or H2) recoil system.
Again, I appreciate the perspective, especially when you're basically simplifying the issue.
I would rather swap between a standard and a BRT reduced port gas tube for suppressed use than mess with an AGB.
I had never heard of the BRT until yesterday. Still haven't looked into it carefully, but I will. FN FAL rifles use a gas piston with a very versatile gas adjustment system. I would like to have similar versatility with AR rifles, but if what's available is just a headache I'll pass. I'll look into it further IF my AR15 exhibits the overgassing that is a "hallmark" of this particular make. =D
Other calibers? Meh. 5.56 and 22 lr are the only AR rounds worth shooting :)
I have a CMMG 22LR conversion kit on order, and am thinking about trading an existing 7.62x51 rifle for a Ruger SFAR in .308 (after they sort out the bugs, and hopefully offer it with an 18" bbl and full-length pic rail). Beyond that, like you, I'm not interested in myriad esoteric chamberings.
THIS.
It’s why the easy button is buying a good brand mil spec rifle and be done with it. That does not mean expensive. A decent Colt will do.
I don’t even know why people new to the game want to tweak and customize ARs so much. Tension screws, gas ports, gas blocks, buffer springs, BCGs, triggers, and on and on. Get a rifle that runs right and you don’t have to fiddle with that crap.
Works for me. My life is beyond complicated so I don't want extra crap to deal with, but Budget wins in the end. It's almost impossible to get around the near-universal inverse relationship between funding and ease-of-ownership: The more cash you can throw at a problem, the smaller the problem becomes. And vice versa.
I don't have much budget for firearms these days, and online forums are tailor made for discussing the intricacies of DIY and HowTo. All the things you mention not wanting to consider... I'm pretty sure I've come to the right place. =D
The ANSWER to My Question
Today I looked through the Customer Q&A on the regular non-blem product page for the lower rcvr in question (lots more Q&A there than on the blem page). Sure enough, the Tensioning Screw question was asked-and-answered: The lower receiver is NOT drilled and tapped for a tensioning screw.
Also, I found a phone number for PSA, but don't know if they ever answer it.
These days steel cased ammo isn't any cheaper than brass.
I told the guy I sold the Faxon upper to run brass and it would be fine, he bought Tula and it choked.
I had put a lower together for him configured like I had it running with an A5 extension, green spring and A5H2.
So then I gave him one of my carbine springs and buffer with a spacer and it works with that.
I haven't tried steel cased ammo in any of my rifles as I don't have any and don't plan on buying any.
But I had the car buffer, spring and spacer to try out if I ever did.
If the gas system is tight it doesn't need a gas port big enough to stub a cigar out in to be reliable using 5.56 brass cased ammo.
To me, adjustable gas blocks are just something else to fiddle with or have an issue, much easier to get a barrel that is sized right to start with and use a quality gas block, tube and BCG.
That and I pretty much just lube them back up, wipe it down and put it away.
Working the AGB screw after every session to keep it from getting carbon locked isn't gonna happen for me.
Any rifle that chokes on steel case is a POS
One More Time
03-31-23, 18:05
That's the size of gas drive that I selected and it worked as advertised.
Had I wanted to run steel ammo I would have selected that one.
One More Time
03-31-23, 18:21
After I bought the Faxon barrel I started checking the port size and crossing it with what they have.
Like a lot of them they are not very forthcoming on port size like it's a secret formula.
But I did find an article on how they came up with the port size for barrels.
Steel cased ammo, dry phosphate BCG and open it up till it locks back and then a bit more to make sure.
Ends up being 0.081" for a 16" mid length and cycles hard with an A5H4 buffer.
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