View Full Version : Forward Controls/Schmid Tool 2 stage
Anyone use this 2 stage trigger from Forward Controls made by Schmid Tool? Is it any good? Is Geissele worth that much more money?
I have one in a rifle I use regularly. It's a definite improvement over mil-spec, not sure how it measures up to a SSA. For what it's worth, I have no plan on replacing it, and I have a SSA-E in a precision rig.
sidewaysil80
04-03-23, 22:41
While it’s not bad, it’s absolutely not a Geissele.
With that, it’s the only trigger I put it builds. For the price, hard to justify spending more.
The Schmidt 2 stage is a very good feeling trigger, and from what I can determine, they are good people.
Are there better triggers? Yes, but that doesn't mean that the Schimdt variants won't do the vast majority of what you need, and do it very very well.
I would be very happy with the Centurion Arms version in all of my weapons.
I tried two of them out before, comparing them to an old RRA NM 2 stage. They were smooth and light, but lacked the slack-to-break feedback of the RRA.
Good gear for the money though, no question 👍
ChattanoogaPhil
04-08-23, 15:36
Planning on picking up another 2S. I figured I’d just grab another LaRue MBT. How does the FC compare?
I figured I’d just grab another LaRue MBT. How does the FC compare?
Schmidt or Geissele crush the MBT, which is hands downs the worst 2S trigger IMO.
Planning on picking up another 2S. I figured I’d just grab another LaRue MBT. How does the FC compare?
Shot Rifles with both today, and broke out the trigger gauge after seeing your post.
FCD in my rifle with approx 1k live fire: 4# 9oz. Has a bit of a rolling break.
MBT w/heavy spring with approx 4k live fire: 4# 11oz. Easier take up, 2nd stage is cleaner.
Both rifle builds see similar use, and are rotated between for training purposes (usually back-to-back). FCD is probably worth a try.
Planning on picking up another 2S. I figured I’d just grab another LaRue MBT. How does the FC compare?
I’ve used the Sionics ones quite a bit, and the below sums it up, so I think if you really want a MBT, do that. If you’re ok with something a little different from that one, the FCD might work out, with little cost. From what I can tell, the Schmid triggers are quality, dependable triggers for an incredible price.
Shot Rifles with both today, and broke out the trigger gauge after seeing your post.
FCD in my rifle with approx 1k live fire: 4# 9oz. Has a bit of a rolling break.
MBT w/heavy spring with approx 4k live fire: 4# 11oz. Easier take up, 2nd stage is cleaner.
Both rifle builds see similar use, and are rotated between for training purposes (usually back-to-back). FCD is probably worth a try.
ChattanoogaPhil
04-08-23, 19:28
opngrnd, 1168 and RHINOWSO, thank you for the replies.
ViniVidivici
04-14-23, 10:59
I'm about to find out. Been kicking around the idea of getting one more 2 stage in one of the guns, and this thread director me to FCD. I'd read alot of positive about the Schmid 2 stage, seen 'em for sale in alot of places for different prices, FCD has best price.
Should be herr next couple days. Will be comparing to the RRA NM 2 stage I've got in other guns.
I'm about to find out. Been kicking around the idea of getting one more 2 stage in one of the guns, and this thread director me to FCD. I'd read alot of positive about the Schmid 2 stage, seen 'em for sale in alot of places for different prices, FCD has best price.
Should be herr next couple days. Will be comparing to the RRA NM 2 stage I've got in other guns.
Snip a bit off the disconnector spring. Just do it.
I'm about to find out. Been kicking around the idea of getting one more 2 stage in one of the guns, and this thread director me to FCD. I'd read alot of positive about the Schmid 2 stage, seen 'em for sale in alot of places for different prices, FCD has best price.If you can wait until Memorial Day (or any of the big/federal holidays) Aero Precision usually knocks off enough to bring them down to around $60-70.
ViniVidivici
04-14-23, 20:13
Thank you, but negative, the shittards that run WA have put us in a legal crunch with regard to purchasing parts, the so-called AWB may be signed any day now. Can't wait.
Aero, good local guys that they are, are giving a 25% discount to WA residents, but they were out of stock of alot of things, including that.
FCD was 87 bucks OTD, should be here any day now.
ViniVidivici
04-15-23, 21:10
It showed up this morning.
Slapped it in, got to go out and do some shooting, at 100 and out to 225 yards.
I really like it. Nice and smooth, very light, crisp break, as it should be, right? It's at least comparable to the RRA NM 2 stage, maybe even a bit better. Time will tell. Will be doing close-in work with the gun soon too.
Seems like a great bang for the buck though.
FCD was great, FAST shipping. I mean I'd ordered the thing at 10:00 pm my time, and by 6:00 am next morning had shipping notification. Took 2 days to get here.
It showed up this morning.
Slapped it in, got to go out and do some shooting, at 100 and out to 225 yards.
I really like it. Nice and smooth, very light, crisp break, as it should be, right? It's at least comparable to the RRA NM 2 stage, maybe even a bit better. Time will tell. Will be doing close-in work with the gun soon too.
Seems like a great bang for the buck though.
FCD was great, FAST shipping. I mean I'd ordered the thing at 10:00 pm my time, and by 6:00 am next morning had shipping notification. Took 2 days to get here.
They ship almost immediately, in my experience. I think it'll serve you well. I know I like mine.
I have many G’s and MBT’s. I think the Schmidt is the best out there for the price.
I ordered the Aero Precision version. I am guessing the red trigger spring is lighter. Anyone know the weight using a standard trigger spring instead?
I am wanting to try a different trigger spring in one, I am thinking about pulling one out of a standard trigger to get a little more weight. Edit: For me this would be an experiment, as I have no experience swapping FCG springs.
ViniVidivici
04-16-23, 11:49
Oh cool, glad to see they got them back in stock. Here's been running out of everything.
I was wondering that too, am assuming the red trigger spring is reduced weight, says 2lb. first stage, 2-2.5lb. second.
Have looked all over, can't find the weight of a red trigger spring.
Initially still very happy with mine, no intent to change anything, just academically curious.
No jediguy, I did not snip any coils off of the disco spring. What would that accomplish?
Have to credit @sinister for the original info, I took pictures when I did it.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?231727-Stock-triggers-vs-Geissele-KAC-MBT-anything-inherently-more-reliable-or-durable/page4
FWIW... TOS, has a guy who is going to test trigger pulls with a Dvorak TriggerScan system.
Super interesting if you enjoy that kind of stuff. Not to mention how similar the MBT and SSA profiles are with subtle differences.
He has tested the SSA, MBT, and the KAC Legacy 2 stages, and some single stages.
And will be testing soon the Schmid ( single stage, and 2 stage Phosphate and NIB 2 stage ) and RRA NM next round.
Here is what the OEM SSA pull looked like.
70182
And here is the LaRue MBT
70183
KAC
70184
I was wondering that too, am assuming the red trigger spring is reduced weight, says 2lb. first stage, 2-2.5lb. second.
Have looked all over, can't find the weight of a red trigger spring.
I don't have a micrometer but my cheap calipers show both the Schmid red spring and the LMT trigger spring to be 0.9mm wire, while the LaRue heavy trigger spring is 1.0mm wire.
As anticipated I found the Schmid 2-stage with red spring to feel a bit light for general purpose coming from mil-spec. I reinstalled it with the LaRue heavy spring which puts the total weight in the range I am used to. I'll probably change back once I have some time with it.
In slow fire with either trigger spring I do not initially like the rolling break as much as the crisp break of the LaRue MBT-2S. However the take-up and reset are shorter which is what I want for rapid fire and the reason I did not get another MBT. I haven't used a really good single stage and I am curious how one would compare, but I think this is going be a fine general purpose trigger and I don't expect to replace it.
Just installed my 3rd Schmid 2 stage trigger and got rid of the rolling break by removing a bit of material from section of disconnector contacting the back of hammer, as trigger is pulled. One needs to carefully observe the interaction of the parts, easily done by inserting the trigger and hammer pins partially in the trigger and hammer then inserting exposed section of pins in holes outside of lower receiver, so FCG is assembled on outside of lower receiver. I chose right side as to avoid the bolt release. Small section of disconnector nose facing towards muzzle needs to be stoned back in small amounts, in order to reduce the creep/engagement in the second stage. Don't go for perfect, just "good enough". Polish the nose of disconnector smooth and you'll have that crisp break, now a bit lighter in weight, around the advertised 4-4.5 lbs. Absolutely no need to remove material or polish any of the hooks or mating surfaces of the hammer and sear.
These are great "city" triggers. We've been running the Centurion version for months now with no issues. If I were in harsher environments, I'd just stick with the robust USGI trigger. But for pinky up target shooting, these are a good value.
If I were in harsher environments, I'd just stick with the robust USGI trigger.
What gives you concern about these in harsher environments? I am counting on it being reliable.
ViniVidivici
04-20-23, 14:29
Yes, do tell! First I've heard of that.
Shot the new build again today, yeah, really loving this trigger.
What gives you concern about these in harsher environments? I am counting on it being reliable.
The trigger's reset is a little lighter than USGI, and the lighter springs have yet to be proven over a long span of usage. No failures yet at all.
What gives you concern about these in harsher environments? I am counting on it being reliable.
All I'm saying is that I don't YET trust it for harsh conditions. The shooting I've been doing for the past several years is "country club" conditions compared to my earlier years. If I was taking a gun into extended periods of outdoor/dirty conditions, I'd error on the side of the good old USGI trigger with full power Colt springs.
The trigger's reset is a little lighter than USGI, and the lighter springs have yet to be proven over a long span of usage. No failures yet at all.
The red trigger spring seems to be the same weight as the LMT USGI spring. Nevertheless substituting the LaRue heavy trigger spring gives a stronger reset.
ViniVidivici
04-20-23, 15:01
Roger, if that's the standard you speak of, I can say my RRA NM triggers & milspec single stage have proven 100% reliable as any other.
I'll know in 6 months to a year on this one.
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