View Full Version : Do short "K" style cans have less back pressure than full-size?
And how do they compare to the newer "reduced back pressure" or "free flow" cans?
Yes, short cans tend to have less back pressure compared to their longer counterparts, most other things being equal. They still don't really compare to OSS/Huxwrx cans, however. Pew Science testing shows them to be the quietest cans tested (out of a few dozen) at the shooter's ear. Furthermore, due to their only increasing bolt speed by 5% over baseline, they do not require tuning of the host weapons. Finally, gas to the face and port pop are greatly reduced or eliminated in gas guns.
I have a pair of OSS Ti cans, in 5.56 and 7.62, and I can attest that they definitely make shooting much less gassy, and don't require tuning compared to standard baffle cans I own (even my Turbo K) or have tried on other people's weapons.
Keep in mind, quieter at ear generally means louder overall.
Do you want a can to reduce your exposure as a shooter or reduce your signiture from others?
Take a look at pew science.
For this application, a .223 Mini-14 Tactical, I'd like a little reduction for myself and those around. (Covered range, indoor range, and private property that isn't as remote as I'd like)
I was thinking of getting something short & light like the Turbo K.
But if the open action of the Mini is going to result in alot of gas face I should consider the Huxwrx, but I haven't checked on the size & weight of those.
Keep in mind the 16 in Mini like mine comes with the same gas bushing as an 18 in so the 16 isn't as over gassed as the 18 and I use .223 from this gun. Ok, occasionally some 5.56. The Mini's have a .223 Wylde chamber is my understanding.
Keep in mind, quieter at ear generally means louder overall.
I didn't know that.
Honestly I think a Mini-14 is going to struggle suppressed with GTF regardless.
Honestly I think a Mini-14 is going to struggle suppressed with GTF regardless.
That would dampen the fun and make me wish I'd bought a new 686+ 3 in instead. (That i could have now not a year later)
I didn't know that.
It's true on the AR in my experience. A tight bore can with lots of baffles gives of the back pressure, and that translates into what I call "port snap" (registered trademark of markm)
Overbored K cans are the way to go.
Keep in mind, quieter at ear generally means louder overall.
Do you want a can to reduce your exposure as a shooter or reduce your signiture from others?
I didn't know that.
The whole "louder overall" and "quieter at the ear" things are really more academic than they are noticeable with the naked ear. When I first started buying suppressors and doing my research in advance, the most common and salient advice was, "don't get caught up in decibel numbers." It was, and is, excellent advice. There is much more to the "right" suppressor than a few dB one way or another. Weight, length, flash suppression, gas blowback - to the face and as it affects weapon function, are some of the important ones.
@markm - so a .30cal K is preferred to a 5.56 K for a 5.56 gun?
@markm - so a .30cal K is preferred to a 5.56 K for a 5.56 gun?
Depends who you ask. If I were buying a can for one of my ARs, I would certainly be getting a light weight 30 cal K can that directly threads to the barrel.
Generally speaking, Back pressure is lower, weight is lower, and port snap is lower.
In the early days of AAC and Gemtech, everyone wanted "full-auto" rated cans with the lowed Db ratings. Two of the WORST things you could want because you get a HEAVY can with massive back pressure. The m4-2000 for example. They're miserably heavy cans that have terrible back pressure. Compared to modern selections, those things are terrible on an AR.
On quieter at ear equaling louder at the muzzle, I’m not convinced. I own a pile of rifle silencers and have used another pile. I’m certain that it is true sometimes, particularly with un-tuned hosts or older cans with more extreme bias. However, I’ve seen metering videos that used legit meters in which cans that differed only in bore diameter (exceedingly rare) on factory Colt 16” and 10.5” rifles in which there was little or no difference at the ear, but the smaller bore can performed much, much better at the muzzle. I’ve also noticed that in my experience cans that are really good at the ear are also frequently good at the muzzle, and even more so on a tuned host. And that makes sense, given that sound intensity degrades at the square of the distance and that the ear is roughy the same distance from the muzzle as the muzzle mic is to the muzzle. This effect is, of course, manipulable via test barrel length.
Truth is, the real reason 7.62 cans usually sound better or same to the shooter in comparison to similar 5.56 cans is that they are significantly longer.
For the OP….depends. Lol.
Dwell time, gassing, barrel, and ammo are a factor too. I've had adjustable gas block set ups that ran perfectly, but the port snap was painful for me, the shooter. I had to dump the set up because if I have to wear ears, there's no point in the ass aches of dirty suppression.
The first time I shot a mini can, I expected it to hurt my ears, but the lower back pressure actually made the shooter's position quite enjoyable. Another small can we shoot is the mini KAC 5.56 can. It's got like 3 baffles. It's fairly quiet at the shooting position, but barky for the other guys spotting for the shooter.
The Dead Air and YHM K type cans with changeable thread adapters are my favorites. I think Pappabear said he wished he had all Dead Air direct threads. They're light and as quiet as the humongous 30 cal cans with twice the baffles.
Well,
What's a good K-type suppressor for my 580+ series 16 in Mini-14?
I don't want long or heavy. Doesn't need to be hearing safe. Needs to have minimal gas face.
Well,
What's a good K-type suppressor for my 580+ series 16 in Mini-14?
I don't want long or heavy. Doesn't need to be hearing safe. Needs to have minimal gas face.
I dunno shit about Minis, but Rex Silentium MG7k .358” and up works well on AKs and are short and light.
The YHM Turbo K is on my want list. Fairly cheap. I think Clint here from Black River Tactical has said good things about them. I've grown to hate suppressors on gas guns, but the YHM can has me willing to give it another go.
The YHM Turbo K is on my want list. Fairly cheap. I think Clint here from Black River Tactical has said good things about them. I've grown to hate suppressors on gas guns, but the YHM can has me willing to give it another go.
Don't get your expectations too high. It's still gassy, though not bad at all for a baffled can, as it only has 2 baffles. And this can be significantly improved by using one of Clint's gas tubes. YHM is releasing a new version now that it supposed to be even less gassy.
https://i.redd.it/pscnm95ysvqa1.png
Dwell time, gassing, barrel, and ammo are a factor too. I've had adjustable gas block set ups that ran perfectly, but the port snap was painful for me, the shooter. I had to dump the set up because if I have to wear ears, there's no point in the ass aches of dirty suppression.
I thought no supersonic 5.56 suppressors were ear-safe for sustained use like training. Am I wrong, behind-the-times, or just care more about my hearing than you?
The YHM Turbo K is on my want list. Fairly cheap. I think Clint here from Black River Tactical has said good things about them. I've grown to hate suppressors on gas guns, but the YHM can has me willing to give it another go.
Its a great can, but I’m not sure that you’ll like it. Choke down the gas and thread that bitch on.
The huxwrks cans are pretty good.
They are effective at keeping blowback down in my limited experience with one.
sandsunsurf
04-13-23, 00:36
I thought no supersonic 5.56 suppressors were ear-safe for sustained use like training. Am I wrong, behind-the-times, or just care more about my hearing than you?
A tuned 18” AR with a good suppressor is probably ok for sustained use in ideal conditions. I am more cautious, like you. Even terrain can make a seemingly quiet .22lr loud. And I’d probably never consider a 10.3” to 14.5” AR as safe. I do however consider my bolt .223 and bolt 6.5 guns as comfortable to shoot without ear pro.
I thought no supersonic 5.56 suppressors were ear-safe for sustained use like training. Am I wrong, behind-the-times, or just care more about my hearing than you?
It's kind of like hammering a nail, mowing the lawn, etc. Do we wear ear protection for that? No... but in reality, it's probably the correct thing to do. If I have a set up that hurt my ears/ringing... then the the whole set up is worthless.
Shooting a suppressed AR with ear pro on is nonsense. I fukking HATE running cans on gas guns with a passion as it is. So if I need ears anyway, then it's fully RETARDED.
steyrman13
04-13-23, 11:34
The Dead Air and YHM K type cans with changeable thread adapters are my favorites. I think Pappabear said he wished he had all Dead Air direct threads. They're light and as quiet as the humongous 30 cal cans with twice the baffles.
Do you mean the "Xeno" mounts similar to how GA or TB mounts are threaded on?
It's kind of like hammering a nail, mowing the lawn, etc. Do we wear ear protection for that? No... but in reality, it's probably the correct thing to do. If I have a set up that hurt my ears/ringing... then the the whole set up is worthless.
Shooting a suppressed AR with ear pro on is nonsense. I fukking HATE running cans on gas guns with a passion as it is. So if I need ears anyway, then it's fully RETARDED.
Yeah, i definately wear earpro while mowing and hammering. I ussually wire music through them too.
It's kind of like hammering a nail, mowing the lawn, etc. Do we wear ear protection for that? No... but in reality, it's probably the correct thing to do. If I have a set up that hurt my ears/ringing... then the the whole set up is worthless.
Shooting a suppressed AR with ear pro on is nonsense. I fukking HATE running cans on gas guns with a passion as it is. So if I need ears anyway, then it's fully RETARDED.
If it means you can shoot on a property and not get noise complaints / upset a neighbor, it's still worth it IMO.
I've ordered a K can for my T7 because where I usually shoot rifles now there is an overhang and even with a sound-thrower on it and double ear pro I still got some ringing. It's possible I had a plug come out a little, too.
But that convinced me to can it.
As well as not annoying neighbors / buddy's neighbors, etc.
Yeah, i definately wear earpro while mowing and hammering. I ussually wire music through them too.
I wish I'd have taken better care of my hearing over the years... concerts, etc.
If it means you can shoot on a property and not get noise complaints / upset a neighbor, it's still worth it IMO.
That's valid. I know I'm in the minority on gas gun can hate.
I prefer an overboard can every time. If I'm shooting 556 I'm fine shooting a 30 cal can and getting fine sound reduction and lower back pressure. My 6.5 guns always get a 30 cal cans. I find its funny people go out and buy a 6.5 can to improve.....nada IMHO.
PB
I heard or read that Kevin from the old AAC was very much about matching Caliber to Can. I'm now sure why because the over-bored cans work great and leave room to avoid baffle damage/strikes.
I prefer an overboard can every time. If I'm shooting 556 I'm fine shooting a 30 cal can and getting fine sound reduction and lower back pressure. My 6.5 guns always get a 30 cal cans. I find its funny people go out and buy a 6.5 can to improve.....nada IMHO.
PB
Is this the same for 9x19 in a .45 can?
I've heard it's not from a buddy with personal experience with that.
Is this the same for 9x19 in a .45 can?
I've heard it's not from a buddy with personal experience with that.
Yes, I run my APC 9 Pro with a Ti Rant 45 can and its Hollywood hush hush with my 147's. And I found those cans for very cheap since no one is buying 45 cans these days. Like half price.
PB
Is this the same for 9x19 in a .45 can?
I've heard it's not from a buddy with personal experience with that.
I would have thought not. But like PB just posted... we did it, and it works great. I remember the old days reading that 45 wouldn't suppress well due to the large bore. But a WHOLE LOT of old dogma about suppressors was way friggin wrong.
Yes, I run my APC 9 Pro with a Ti Rant 45 can and its Hollywood hush hush with my 147's. And I found those cans for very cheap since no one is buying 45 cans these days. Like half price.
PB
Thanks. I had considered getting an Omega 45k instead of the 9k just in case I ever wanted to use it on as .45 but figured it's already going to be louder as a K and would be louder still running 9mm through a .45 can.
No big deal. Unless I ever get a strike.
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