View Full Version : Iraq Veteran 8888 poll
Youtubber Iraq Veteran 8888 posted a poll on twitter on if the American military would fire on the American people.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlW6BQfLZO4
The results are very lopsided.
Inkslinger
04-13-23, 17:51
I’m not shocked. Do you remember this fine American soldier?
https://youtu.be/PSYNaqNUS10
There’s some really stupid shit in this debate and the continual trash on ARFCOM often reminds me of it.
Stupid people are stupid people no matter what and the unarguable assumptions made about the military by those with zero connections to it are proof.
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The way things are going we'll find out...
There is a percentage of the military that would both give those orders and follow them. It may not be the majority but it's not an insignificant percentage either.
Some will, some won't. Following orders or becoming subversive to command will be dictated by too many variables to list.
As such this is always a retarded discussion unless we are discussing historical events that have already come to pass or very specific "pending" events that are imminent.
People who think they know the future, for certain, generally prove their lack of understanding of most things.
Some will, some won't. Following orders or becoming subversive to command will be dictated by too many variables to list.
As such this is always a retarded discussion unless we are discussing historical events that have already come to pass or very specific "pending" events that are imminent.
People who think they know the future, for certain, generally prove their lack of understanding of most things.
While nothing is 100% guaranteed in life, based on the bonus Army and various state units being used against US citizens(labor negotiations come to mind) a different outcome is over in the odds category of communists claiming the outcome won't be like the last time(s).
Of couse they will. They're actually fed more fricking propoganda than the rest of us. Look no further than the political boot licking military "Leadership." I'd bet less than 1 percent actually understand the constitution. How many of us did at that age? I sure wasn't as well versed as I am at this point in life.
While nothing is 100% guaranteed in life, based on the bonus Army and various state units being used against US citizens(labor negotiations come to mind) a different outcome is over in the odds category of communists claiming the outcome won't be like the last time(s).
Could have easily been time / place plus the combined egos of Patton and MacArthur. We should remember around the same time the US was practicing eugenics and a person could find themselves forcibly sterilized by the government if they were found "indigent." We were practicing full speed ahead socialism at the time.
It is almost a certainty that the "political creatures" within our military will lock step along with just about anything but the rank and file will either hold to whatever personal beliefs motivate them or need a serious reason not to. I personally believe in cases where it looks like a government gone rogue, that any large scale use of the military against it's own citizens will cause dramatic fractures throughout every branch and I think even the most arrogant government leaders understand that.
Depending upon circumstances, they are "as likely" to find themselves at war with their own military, especially if elements of the special operations community decide to declare "bullshit." And of course I can remember people talking about this scenario since the 1970s, Waco is as close as we've ever come and even that came at great expense to many involved. It was enough to motivate some fringe elements to acts of domestic terrorism that made Clinton / Reno wish they had left those nutjobs in Texas alone.
Of couse they will. They're actually fed more fricking propoganda than the rest of us. Look no further than the political boot licking military "Leadership." I'd bet less than 1 percent actually understand the constitution. How many of us did at that age? I sure wasn't as well versed as I am at this point in life.
Having worked directly with a LOT of the military for the last 20 years I would say "most of then know, most of them understand." Most people don't like their boss.
Could have easily been time / place plus the combined egos of Patton and MacArthur. We should remember around the same time the US was practicing eugenics and a person could find themselves forcibly sterilized by the government if they were found "indigent." We were practicing full speed ahead socialism at the time.
It is almost a certainty that the "political creatures" within our military will lock step along with just about anything but the rank and file will either hold to whatever personal beliefs motivate them or need a serious reason not to. I personally believe in cases where it looks like a government gone rogue, that any large scale use of the military against it's own citizens will cause dramatic fractures throughout every branch and I think even the most arrogant government leaders understand that.
Depending upon circumstances, they are "as likely" to find themselves at war with their own military, especially if elements of the special operations community decide to declare "bullshit." And of course I can remember people talking about this scenario since the 1970s, Waco is as close as we've ever come and even that came at great expense to many involved. It was enough to motivate some fringe elements to acts of domestic terrorism that made Clinton / Reno wish they had left those nutjobs in Texas alone.
Other than the opening day at Waco, I only recall 1 side of the conflict suffering any negatives. I sure don't recall Reno/Clinton ever suffering any negatives over it and have no reason to believe either cared about any lives they destroyed there or anywhere else.
Pretty good read.
https://starvingthemonkeys.com/articles/Colonels.html
I wouldn't assign any weight to the views expressed on YouTube. Once you weed out the bot accounts there most of what you're left with are imbeciles. YouTube is a barometer for how stupid Americans have become.
Tin soldiers and Nixon's comin'
We're finally on our own
This summer I hear the drummin'
Four dead in Ohio
We’ve seen it before. They were willing to shoot unarmed college kids.
hotbiggun42
04-13-23, 23:09
Im afraid they would be forced to fire back.
I fear the drones.
hotbiggun42
04-13-23, 23:12
Tin soldiers and Nixon's comin'
We're finally on our own
This summer I hear the drummin'
Four dead in Ohio
We’ve seen it before. They were willing to shoot unarmed college kids.
Only this time Neil young will be yelling fire. Damn hippies grew up to be tyrrants
Only this time Neil young will be yelling fire. Damn hippies grew up to be tyrrants
Truth. Back then they wanted to be free, free from The Man. Now they are The Man and want to rule every part of your life.
Only this time Neil young will be yelling fire. Damn hippies grew up to be tyrrants
Well, yes. No argument there. But the point still stands. “They” have done it before.
Well, yes. No argument there. But the point still stands. “They” have done it before.
“They” is a large group that cannot be categorized on only one side of this, hence why this argument is stupid.
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I had an English teacher that impressed a lifelong distrust of the word “they”. I still try to be careful with that word nearly 30 years later.
Sidneyious
04-15-23, 19:36
I have need for an up armored vehicle.
Wide open question, one that begs for speculation by the respondents. Additionally the methodology of the "poll" is going to skew results in that direction. I'm surprised it wasn't higher. Those who would be inclined to answer in the negative are less inclined to go out of their way to respond to the question.
All that said, I can wargame scenarios where I could not only accept our military acting against citizens but could support it. I can envision scenarios where I would have been willing to do so back in "the day".
We need only look back to the 2020 "Summer of Love" and wargame that a bit. Add a little more spice to CHOP. How many of you would have supported .mil shutting it down. I'll be honest, I kinda wanted to see more NG rolled out to shut that shit down in a number of places.
I wasn't involved, but I certainly remember 1st MarDiv rolling Marines and LAV-25s up I-5 out of Pendleton in 92.
So yeah, I can see it happening. I can see guys following orders. I can only hope that if it does happen, it is for good reason. Frankly I fear a little that the possibility exists for it to go either way. But most of all I trust in the guys doing the job.
ChattanoogaPhil
04-16-23, 09:28
I'd like to think that individuals would follow their conscience. The problem is that when individuals are in a group they're much more likely to do things that they wouldn't otherwise do. So yeah, I can imagine decent people in groups doing terrible and stupid things like firing on Americans or... uh... invading the Capitol building that they would never do if they weren't in a group.
An open poll on Twitter about such things is useless data. There is going to be a HUGE amount of respondents who have absolutely no data to back up their opinion.
An open poll on Twitter about such things is useless data. There is going to be a HUGE amount of respondents who have absolutely no data to back up their opinion.
Not on Twitter so going off of Eric's screen shots of the yes votes stating why they voted yes along with pointing to real invidents where it happened already.
As near as I can tell the no votes are basing their vote on claiming that could never happen and casting dispersion on anyone thinking it could based on past incidents. The closest thing to the "no" side I can recall was Northwoods and opposition came from the top of the chain instead of the lower links.
Operation Northwoods - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
To anyone who thinks this isn't worthy of consideration or thinks the military wouldn't carry out illegal orders against its own citizens, I'll just leave these here. :rolleyes:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment
To anyone who thinks this isn't worthy of consideration or thinks the military wouldn't carry out illegal orders against its own citizens, I'll just leave these here. :rolleyes:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment
The Stanford Prison Experiment is actually on the CSM’s recommended reading list at JSOC and SOCOM. Its on the portal, right next to some similar reading on ethics that can be applied during warfare. Its unfortunate that conventional forces rarely get that sort of mentorship.
The experiment itself was amateurishly put together to a degree that erodes its credibility, but it is still an excellent lesson. 10/10, would read and recommend again.
To anyone who thinks this isn't worthy of consideration or thinks the military wouldn't carry out illegal orders against its own citizens, I'll just leave these here. :rolleyes:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment
The only thing that would surprise me is if anyone here wasn't very familiar with the above.
The only thing that would surprise me is if anyone here wasn't very familiar with the above.
The problem isn't with those who are unfamiliar with them. The problem is with those that are familiar with them but see the horror as the bright side. :(
The problem isn't with those who are unfamiliar with them. The problem is with those that are familiar with them but see the horror as the bright side. :(
So just make a mental note of who they are for the day when the shooting starts, they are top of the "to do" list.
The police aren't on your side
The military isn't on your side
They are tools of the State and will be used to enforce the State's rule as the State sees fit.
If they are ordered to fire upon you, many will happily follow the order. Those that don't will be replaced.
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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230418/466a725145501a2e5bca79edf4013034.jpg
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Most will die of excess calories, first, just like most Americans that make it past 25.
The police aren't on your side
The military isn't on your side
They are tools of the State and will be used to enforce the State's rule as the State sees fit.
If they are ordered to fire upon you, many will happily follow the order. Those that don't will be replaced.
Do you personally know a lot of members of LE/MIL?
Do you personally know a lot of members of LE/MIL?
I worked with a fair number of former mil in my past life. They weren't all good people and they certainly weren't all conservatives. Most just wanted to take the path of least resistance through their day and would do whatever was easiest and of the greatest personal benefit. One was an actual Dem activist in his off hours. Another guy made it no secret that he thought Americans had no right to own "military-grade" weapons and that he thought they should be banned and confiscated by force. On the flip side of the coin, there was a guy that wanted to roll armor on the CHAZ.
All in all, I don't think it would have taken too much prodding to get a majority of them to go along with rounding up "Far-Right Domestic Terrorists"...History has shown it's not really that difficult to get people on board with doing horrific shit to the "other" tribe.
As to LE...When all the ban legislation was going on down here a few months ago, many of the cops I talked to said "I'll get to keep my stuff, so I don't really care" and when asked if they'd enforce it, they said "If the Chief/Sheriff wants it enforced..." The dudes that were universally on the side of "Naw, that's bullshit, don't turn in or register anything" were the FBI.
But hey, I've been wrong before...Let's hope we don't get to find out for real.
hoopharted
04-19-23, 18:14
There’s some really stupid shit in this debate and the continual trash on ARFCOM often reminds me of it.
Stupid people are stupid people no matter what and the unarguable assumptions made about the military by those with zero connections to it are proof.
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thank you , i agree ARFCOM is a toilet
I worked with a fair number of former mil in my past life. They weren't all good people and they certainly weren't all conservatives.
I'd never suggest they are all good and I know for certain not all of them are conservatives. I was simply addressing your statement that many will happily shoot regular folks if ordered. Military people "tend" to be one of the few groups who understand they oath they take and it actually means something to them.
Combat vets in particular, who typically view their experiences under fire as being done in "defense of the country and the constitution" are probably the least likely to voluntarily betray that oath.
Insulting/name calling is NOT allowed.
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