Range Trip With My DDM4v7 LW [Archive]

ChrisM516

04-18-23, 16:05

Took my Daniel Defense DDM4v7 with lightweight barrel for a short range trip after work. Really like this rifle, it's my "do-all" gun. Just some plinking at 100 yards at 6x to familiarize myself with using an LPVO and see if it's something I'll stick with. Brought it in to 25 yards at 1x just to do some standing drills, no pictures of those targets. Crawl, walk, run and all that. I'm thinking I'll look at 2 stage triggers. I found myself wishing for something between the trigger squeeze and the bang.

Stuff:
Kahles K16i in a Geissele mount
PMC M193 this time
Magpul K2 & MOE SL
Modlite

Got some flyers in there :laugh: but pretty happy given the ammo choice.

https://i.imgur.com/PgNeb4R.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/NgJ96XN.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/dAVAfLy.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/7mk8TYq.jpg

Pappabear

04-18-23, 18:06

Real Nice gun and decent work with M193. Was this all standing or prone or bench with rear bag and how big are those targets?

PB

ChrisM516

04-18-23, 18:13

Real Nice gun and decent work with M193. Was this all standing or prone or bench with rear bag and how big are those targets?

PB

Thanks. From a bench using a cheap Caldwell sandbag in the front, no rear bag. Targets are 5.5" (red circle is an inch).

Pappabear

04-18-23, 18:36

No rear bag, that is good enough for slapping some rounds down range. Well done.

PB

C-grunt

04-18-23, 20:32

Really nice rifle you got there. Definitely not horrible shooting given the new optic and no rear support. You could definitely improve but you now have a baseline to build upon.

MegademiC

04-18-23, 21:14

Echoing what others said, thats a solid setup, you have a good baseline.

The rifle can do quite a bit better with match ammo if you work to figure out how to solidify your position (based on results i suspect you shot a rifle a time or two before;) ) I would suggest some more time on the stock trigger before upgrading, it will force you to solidify the fundamentals which will make an upgrade more effective.

Good work, keep at it!

ChrisM516

04-19-23, 05:06

Really nice rifle you got there. Definitely not horrible shooting given the new optic and no rear support. You could definitely improve but you now have a baseline to build upon.

Thanks for the kind words. Looking forward to more improvement and keeping things updated here.

Echoing what others said, thats a solid setup, you have a good baseline.

The rifle can do quite a bit better with match ammo if you work to figure out how to solidify your position (based on results i suspect you shot a rifle a time or two before;) ) I would suggest some more time on the stock trigger before upgrading, it will force you to solidify the fundamentals which will make an upgrade more effective.

Good work, keep at it!

Thanks! I am going to try some match ammo soon. This M193 is my bulk training stash so just wanted to get a baseline with it. I will definitely get some more trigger time before making more changes though. The temptation is always to fiddle with parts before anything else because it's just fun!

I do have some background with shooting. I was in the Air Force (Security Forces) until last year, so really just basic stuff and quarterly "shoot, move, communicate" training. I did the Special Reaction Team thing for a couple years but it was more like an extracurricular than anything else since we we were only ever called out once that I remember. I didn't have much interest in guns before then and when I realized I enjoyed shooting, I went overseas for four years, then California for a year before getting out, so this is the first chance I've had to actually explore it as a hobby and not work.

everready73

04-19-23, 11:17

Nice gun.. Larue MBT2 would be a nice 2 stage trigger upgrade that wont break the bank. Or Sionics 2 stage

Beat Trash

04-22-23, 22:09

Great rifle. I bought a DDM4V7 LW right after they were introduced. I used it as a department approved/private purchase Patrol Rifle while I was as a supervisor of a large canine unit tasked with going after violent armed felons. Over time, I took mine to many training classes. I now have a “few” DDM4V7LW’s. They are excellent rifles, that I would, and have trusted my life with.

You have an excellent rifle. If you would consider advice from a stranger, get professional, qualified training. Then practice what you learned.

ChrisM516

05-21-23, 10:04

georgeib

05-21-23, 10:45

I suppose I'll just use this thread as my thoughts about this gun as I use it more.

Sometime in the last couple weeks one of the MLOK nuts in the Daniel Defense foregrip came loose and fell off. While I was packing up from the range yesterday the foregrip came off entirely. It didn't break, the other MLOK nut just came loose. I am positive both the nuts were secure and they haven't actually faced any heavy use yet. This has me questioning MLOK's suitability and looking at the good old-fashioned picatinny rails I'm used to.

I've never had a properly installed mlok attachment come loose in thousands and thousands of rounds over several years. However all of mine are loctited, and take significant torque to remove. I'm leaning towards improper installation as the cause for your issue.

ChrisM516

05-21-23, 10:50

I've never had a properly installed mlok attachment come loose in thousands and thousands of rounds over several years. However all of mine are loctited, and take significant torque to remove. I'm leaning towards improper installation as the cause for your issue.

User error is definitely the most likely cause. I still plan to give it another try but keeping my eye on them.

ViniVidivici

05-21-23, 23:38

Same here, never had anything come loose off of MLOK rails, but I do loctite ALL of that shit, always. Makes a huge difference.

Stickman

05-22-23, 10:39

User error is definitely the most likely cause. I still plan to give it another try but keeping my eye on them.

Chris,

Its not uncommon for MLOK attachments to lock down without actually being properly engaged in the rail. Its happened to me more than once, and I've ended up using a flashlight to verify everything now.

georgeib

05-22-23, 11:13

Chris,

Its not uncommon for MLOK attachments to lock down without actually being properly engaged in the rail. Its happened to me more than once, and I've ended up using a flashlight to verify everything now.I've had the same experience more than once, now that you mention it. Also use a light to verify. Thank for bringing that up.

kyjd75

05-22-23, 11:44

Chris,

Its not uncommon for MLOK attachments to lock down without actually being properly engaged in the rail. Its happened to me more than once, and I've ended up using a flashlight to verify everything now.

This. I have the same procedure now in that I check every attachment with a flashlight to ensure the Mlok screws and attachment bars are actually attached where they should be.

titsonritz

05-22-23, 12:11

This. I have the same procedure now in that I check every attachment with a flashlight to ensure the Mlok screws and attachment bars are actually attached where they should be.

Same here.

ChrisM516

05-22-23, 13:32

Thanks folks. Need to go through with Loctite and verify they're locked down. Don't want to lose my nice Modlite. Quad rails just seem more idiot-proof.

SteveL

05-22-23, 17:53

I've had the same experience as the others here with Mlok. Solid mounting system, but use Loctite and verify with a flashlight that the hardware inside the rail has rotated into the proper position. I've never had anything come loose after following this procedure.

As for the trigger issue, IMO DD mil-spec triggers are total garbage, especially when compared against the trigger you get with a BCM, Sionics, or SOLGW. It is my opinion that for the money you can not get a better trigger than the Larue MBT. They come in single stage, two stage, curved and flat.

Rmorris

06-01-23, 11:27

Flashlight, thread lock, witness mark on screws.
Check them when you clean it.

I vote Geissele for a trigger. I have Larue too, but think it is a small step down from my SSA-e’s for two stage.

ChrisM516

06-01-23, 11:35

Flashlight, thread lock, witness mark on screws.
Check them when you clean it.

I vote Geissele for a trigger. I have Larue too, but think it is a small step down from my SSA-e’s for two stage.

I went through and redid everything this way, so that should take care of it. You all are terrible at spending other people's money!

I'm going to hold off on a trigger for a bit longer. I do have an ALG ACT sitting in a drawer that I've never used from a while back. Bought it on a whim. I know it's not comparable, but I may stick it in there just to try it. I'm not above tinkering and trying stuff just to see what it does.

ViniVidivici

06-01-23, 11:36

For triggers, I'm very happy with the FCD Schmid 2 stage I just put in a new build a while back.

Also very content with the RRA NM 2 stage I have in another gun.

ViniVidivici

06-01-23, 11:43

I went through and redid everything this way, so that should take care of it. You all are terrible at spending other people's money!

I'm going to hold off on a trigger for a bit longer. I do have an ALG ACT sitting in a drawer that I've never used from a while back. Bought it on a whim. I know it's not comparable, but I may stick it in there just to try it. I'm not above tinkering and trying stuff just to see what it does.

Do try it since you've got it on hand. I guarantee it'll be better than what's in there. ALG triggers are nice, if we're talking single stage.

We have their QMS trigger in the HH6's gun, it's way better than any basic milspec setup.

SteveL

06-01-23, 17:33

I went through and redid everything this way, so that should take care of it. You all are terrible at spending other people's money!

I'm going to hold off on a trigger for a bit longer. I do have an ALG ACT sitting in a drawer that I've never used from a while back. Bought it on a whim. I know it's not comparable, but I may stick it in there just to try it. I'm not above tinkering and trying stuff just to see what it does.

Definitely try out the ACT. I'm sure it's better than the stock trigger.

ChrisM516

06-02-23, 05:21

a1madrid

06-02-23, 12:44

I suppose I'll just use this thread as my thoughts about this gun as I use it more.

Sometime in the last couple weeks one of the MLOK nuts in the Daniel Defense foregrip came loose and fell off. While I was packing up from the range yesterday the foregrip came off entirely. It didn't break, the other MLOK nut just came loose. I am positive both the nuts were secure and they haven't actually faced any heavy use yet. This has me questioning MLOK's suitability and looking at the good old-fashioned picatinny rails I'm used to.

Throw some blue loctite on the screws you use for M-lok attachments and snug them down when you install them. This will help that issue.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

SteveL

06-02-23, 14:01

I also have an ACOG (TA110 variety, with the green horseshoe) that I want to compare to. I've read and re-read basically every thread about this subject on the forum, so at this point I figure the only real way to decide is to just do back-to-back comparisons and determine which I prefer.

The only way you're going to figure out which optic you prefer is to try them both and make a decision. Both are good optics, but there are pros and cons to each.

ChrisM516

06-11-23, 19:49

Installed the ALG ACT. It feels exactly as advertised, a lighter, smoother mil-spec. I like how it felt dry-firing but haven't taken it to the range yet.

Dumb question though; the instructions say the lighter purple spring could cause light strikes on hard primers. I searched everywhere and 1.) didn't see anyone this has happened to and 2.) why are light strikes a concern for a 4.5 lb single stage but not a "4.5" lb two stage like the Geissele SSA?

ChrisM516

06-22-23, 12:09

I've had some time to compare the TA110 ACOG and the Kahles K16. The LPVO is better in almost every way to the ACOG, except the eye box. The ACOG has a huge eye box that is very easy to get behind and use. I've tried adjusting the diopter on the LPVO every which way I can Google, but it's just not nearly as easy to get behind as the ACOG.

That doesn't mean it's difficult, but the ACOG is extremely easy. I have much greater situational awareness with the LPVO on 1x and more precision on 6x. I've heard the Kahles has the most forgiving eye box, so I'm wondering if there's a trick I'm missing or a better option (VCOG maybe? Love the ACOG reticle too, so a VCOG seems like a logical choice).

Bottom line...the LPVO does everything better than the ACOG, but it's got just enough annoying things that I'm still on the fence (no I haven't used the LPVO as a hammer and won't be doing that intentionally). Any thoughts on something to try or a different LPVO?

Edit: I don't really like the mag adjustment on the Kahles. It's extremely stiff, which is great to prevent it accidentally moving, but there's no tactile feedback and using it will cause the whole rifle to cant unless I really grip it hard. Windage and elevation adjustments are not that great either, very little tactile feedback. The ACOG is very tactile and stupid easy to adjust.

Hank6046

06-22-23, 14:03

Bottom line...the LPVO does everything better than the ACOG, but it's got just enough annoying things that I'm still on the fence (no I haven't used the LPVO as a hammer and won't be doing that intentionally). Any thoughts on something to try or a different LPVO?

Edit: I don't really like the mag adjustment on the Kahles. It's extremely stiff, which is great to prevent it accidentally moving, but there's no tactile feedback and using it will cause the whole rifle to cant unless I really grip it hard. Windage and elevation adjustments are not that great either, very little tactile feedback. The ACOG is very tactile and stupid easy to adjust.

Welcome my friend to the search for the Holly Grail of optics, the great White Buffalo that does everything you want it to with no downsides... unfortunately many people seem to be searching for just such an optic with no luck. My favorite LPVO for an AR that I've tried thus far is a Razor 1-6, but the magnification throw does suck and it's not the lightest by far. I have the 1-10x on an AR10 which works amazing for a 1-8x when out in the woods but that extra 2x magnification starts to induce heavy scope shadow. For my main AR I've just gone back to an Acog out of pure simplicity, I know what I'm getting and I know it works decently for whatever role I put it in.

cosmo223

06-23-23, 10:27

Congrats on the DD. They make a great rifle. With some practice, a better trigger and match ammo you will definitely be able to get better accuracy out of your gun. 1-1.25 MOA is definitely a realistic goal. Your groups did seem to tighten up the more you shot, so that's definitely encouraging.

As others have said, optics are always a tradeoff. It would be great if there was a perfect scope out there with a 1-8x zoom ratio, great eye box, fantastic glass, super durable, well designed reticle, daylight bright illumination, compact and lightweight. Oh and cost less than $500.:) You really need to decide how you're going to use the rifle and what features are most important to you.

Of the scopes I've owned an ACOG would definitely work for you. Super rugged, simple, very good glass. Pretty versatile. But not crazy about the eye relief and 4x is not enough magnification in some circumstances and too much in others. Vortex Razor 1-6x is a very nice scope. Great glass. Very rugged. Very useable at 1x. But it is very heavy. Nightforce 1-8x also a very nice scope. Fairly compact. Fairly light. It's a Nightforce, so durability won't be an issue. Not crazy about the reticle for precision shooting and I think the eye box can be pretty tight. On the other hand was just shooting the 11.5" LaRue upper I have this scope on. Was getting 85-90% hits on a 8" steel plate at 300 yards in light wind. Not exactly spectacular results, but clearly you could take this set up out to 4-500 yards with larger targets, and at those ranges you are approaching the ballistic limits of the 5.56 round. And at 1x you can certainly use this scope for shooting 50 yards and in, making it a pretty versatile scope.

ChrisM516

07-29-23, 10:32

I've been alternating between the Kahles and the TA110 on range trips. I'm probably going to stick with the ACOG. It is significantly easier to get behind than the Kahles. It just doesn't seem to matter where your head is for any practical use. I don't have any issues shooting at close range with both eyes open. I've spent a ton of time trying to get the diopter set on the LPVO and just can't get past the slight edge distortion. The ACOG doesn't have any distortion whatsoever. The illumination on the ACOG is surface-of-the-sun bright (not that I need it). I will be attending a "performance carbine course" in September to see how it performs in a more dynamic environment.

Disciple

07-29-23, 11:38

I've been alternating between the Kahles and the TA110 on range trips. I'm probably going to stick with the ACOG. It is significantly easier to get behind than the Kahles.

This comparison is with the Kahles dialed to 3.5X I suppose?

ChrisM516

07-29-23, 11:39

This comparison is with the Kahles dialed to 3.5X I suppose?

At pretty much every magnification.

Disciple

07-29-23, 14:46

At pretty much every magnification.

That is very interesting. I found that the Viper PST 1-6 has a much smaller exit pupil than the theoretical maximum for a 24mm objective, roughly 11mm at 1X, 8mm at 2X, 5mm at 4X, only reaching the expected value of 4mm at 6x. I wondered if this was due to it being on the affordable end of the spectrum, but I see that the K16i is specified (https://www.kahles.at/en/sport/riflescopes/k16i-1-6x24i) to have a maximum exit pupil of 9.6mm (presumably at 1X) which is less than the 9.9mm of the TA110. Is that the scope you have?

ChrisM516

07-29-23, 17:52

That is very interesting. I found that the Viper PST 1-6 has a much smaller exit pupil than the theoretical maximum for a 24mm objective, roughly 11mm at 1X, 8mm at 2X, 5mm at 4X, only reaching the expected value of 4mm at 6x. I wondered if this was due to it being on the affordable end of the spectrum, but I see that the K16i is specified (https://www.kahles.at/en/sport/riflescopes/k16i-1-6x24i) to have a maximum exit pupil of 9.6mm (presumably at 1X) which is less than the 9.9mm of the TA110. Is that the scope you have?

That's a little above my head honestly. Yes, I have the K16i and the TA110 (with the green horseshoe reticle).

ChrisM516

09-11-23, 06:32

I took a "performance carbine" course yesterday with Greenline Tactical. It was an enjoyable experience. Most of the drills were done between 5-25 yards with a few out to about 150. I ran the TA110. Everyone else had red dots and 1 LPVO. I felt fairly comfortable with the ACOG but I think I was a little slower getting on target and that resulted in my breaking the time limit on a couple drills that I think I could have met with a dot. I got lost in the magnification and found it difficult to get back on target right away. I was about middle of the pack overall, so would probably be fine with practice.

I still love the ACOG, however, the disadvantages are apparent at close quarters. It has the RMR mounts, so that's a possibility, or just switch back to the LPVO. Too many choices these days!

Anyways, just wanted to report back some more.

Edit: gun ran great, even when hot. Not a single hiccup in ~500 rounds.