Brownells makes an M4 and M5 RAS?? [Archive]

markm

04-28-23, 17:12

Does it have a P&S cage code?

I'm not sure. I have P&S M4 RAS, but these panels just have the code. I'll have to compare later tonight when I get home.

Budget

04-28-23, 18:35

I saw it posted on the other thread. Much cheaper alternative. Looks good online, excited to hear how it works out for you.

markm

04-28-23, 22:20

Pappabear has my P&S on one of his guns, so I can't check the Cage Code. These have "8FW25". The panels are marked differently than mine, but they probably are P&S:

"These handguards are provided to Brownells by a US Government contractor and are new production."

Uncas47

04-28-23, 22:32

Thoroughbred Armament has P&S M4 RAS kits with panels and fore grip. Not cheap, but less than I've paid for Knights several times. P&S is a gov contractor and I've heard the quality is there.

Slater

04-29-23, 06:04

P&S is now "Prudent American Technologies", but I don't know if they have any .gov contracts for rails. I think they make rails for the commercial market, though.

Hammer_Man

04-29-23, 08:34

Google says cage code 8FW25 is Prudent American Technologies, which according to Charlie’s Custom Clones is the parent company of P&S.

Uncas47

04-29-23, 11:09

The M5 RAS cage 4U486 is licensed from Knights for Mil contracts.

markm

04-30-23, 10:27

Yeah. My P&S m4 RAS definitely has a different cage code. Either way. Great prices for a great rail.

mack7.62

04-30-23, 13:17

I just picked up a Vero Beach M4 RAS in a trade that was made 10/23/01, missing the screw and clip of course so I am trying to locate those. It came with 2 - 11 Ribs marked Knights Vero Beach, 2 marked Knights only and 6 with Knights cage code and two bottom pieces. Now trying to decide if I want to put it on a flat top or A2 Colt upper.

Uncas47

04-30-23, 14:03

I've only seen the 11 rib panels marked Vero Beach, nothing shorter. Perhaps they exist and others have some. At one time I had quite a few and cut some down, but except for one in front of my fore grip I prefer nekid rails these days.

Budget

04-30-23, 16:29

...missing the screw and clip of course so I am trying to locate those.
.I

Email KAC, dude on reddit said they mailed him replacement for free

Corse

04-30-23, 19:51

Is this the best option to add a rail to a regular 20” rifle?

Send it...

04-30-23, 20:14

*Just googled and found the answer to my question in regards to free float or not. Thanks

Caballo

04-30-23, 20:43

Are these rails free float? It seems like they connect to the barrel nut and the front cap? Cant really tell in videos online and have not handled one. Thanks.

Negative. However, The screw clamps the top rail onto the barrel nut, giving a rigid platform for stuff like IR

Send it...

04-30-23, 20:45

Negative. However, The screw clamps the top rail onto the barrel nut, giving a rigid platform for stuff like IR

Copy, thank you Caballo!

markm

05-01-23, 07:44

Is this the best option to add a rail to a regular 20” rifle?

In my opinion, yes. There is the Geissele rifle rail which is bad ass, but it's $550 when it's available.

markm

05-01-23, 07:44

Is this the best option to add a rail to a regular 20” rifle?

In my opinion, yes. There is the Geissele rifle rail which is bad ass, but it's $550 when it's available.

titsonritz

05-01-23, 23:32

In my opinion, yes. There is the Geissele rifle rail which is bad ass, but it's $550 when it's available.

Then you got to tear the bitch apart and all that. I hit the easy button and ordered a P&S M5.

Hammer_Man

05-02-23, 10:27

Just got a notification that Midway has the M4 RAS in stock. $295 plus shipping.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1022869640?pid=795603

markm

05-02-23, 12:37

Just got a notification that Midway has the M4 RAS in stock. $295 plus shipping.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1022869640?pid=795603

Hopefully that will keep the cloner fags happy and ease the demand on the P&S/ keep prices reasonable for us actual users.

markm

05-02-23, 12:38

Dupe.

FIX THIS ANNOYING SITE!!!

Stickman

05-06-23, 12:25

Is this the best option to add a rail to a regular 20” rifle?

The KAC M5 is a military spec rail, and always looks great (IMHO). However, for the same price or less, you can also pick up a Centurion Arms C4 rail, and then have a free floated 20" rifle that looks rather similar.

https://64.media.tumblr.com/aeb95edd8e92b7eebfc956b21dcd6bc6/d961f3611e4d86ef-0b/s1280x1920/928e2732d67af4558d84e3227dd5abf2dc8323fd.jpg

https://64.media.tumblr.com/8a139f9158e6c517f2a5d6b481b36ac5/95f7f73d24f44fe4-79/s1280x1920/9acf3a01530a9e31d9b27d2289b72a1906680bde.jpg

Corse

05-06-23, 23:55

The KAC M5 is a military spec rail, and always looks great (IMHO). However, for the same price or less, you can also pick up a Centurion Arms C4 rail, and then have a free floated 20" rifle that looks rather similar.

https://64.media.tumblr.com/aeb95edd8e92b7eebfc956b21dcd6bc6/d961f3611e4d86ef-0b/s1280x1920/928e2732d67af4558d84e3227dd5abf2dc8323fd.jpg

I like this option, it looks great and add benefit of free float.

https://64.media.tumblr.com/8a139f9158e6c517f2a5d6b481b36ac5/95f7f73d24f44fe4-79/s1280x1920/9acf3a01530a9e31d9b27d2289b72a1906680bde.jpg

I like this option, it looks great and added benefit of free float.

Eurodriver

05-09-23, 11:54

KAC rails made sense when they were everywhere for $125.

I can't imagine paying $350 for almost 20 year old tech now.

markm

05-09-23, 15:04

KAC rails made sense when they were everywhere for $125.

I can't imagine paying $350 for almost 20 year old tech now.

Paying a premium to get a KAC just for the name is not sensible to me. But the problem is that pic is the best mounting system still... age of design is irrelevant. And good 7.0 rails are not easy to get. Geissele doesn't even offer them now... and even when they did, many had that faggot Mlok crap on part of the rail.

titsonritz

05-09-23, 16:46

Paying a premium to get a KAC just for the name is not sensible to me. But the problem is that pic is the best mounting system still... age of design is irrelevant. And good 7.0 rails are not easy to get. Geissele doesn't even offer them now... and even when they did, many had that faggot Mlok crap on part of the rail.

You just need the stones to put an MK7 on the chop saw. :laugh:

markm

05-09-23, 16:56

You just need the stones to put an MK7 on the chop saw. :laugh:

Is that the Geissele rifle rail? I'm going to get one of those some day.

titsonritz

05-09-23, 18:30

Is that the Geissele rifle rail? I'm going to get one of those some day.

Yep that is their CMP-legal pic rail.
https://geissele.com/12-7-super-modular-rail-mk7-black.html

markm

05-09-23, 23:22

Yep that is their CMP-legal pic rail.
https://geissele.com/12-7-super-modular-rail-mk7-black.html

I've been eyeing that thing like a leg of lamb, Baby! Thank God, it's out of stock right now.

Diamondback

05-10-23, 08:52

The KAC M5 is a military spec rail, and always looks great (IMHO). However, for the same price or less, you can also pick up a Centurion Arms C4 rail, and then have a free floated 20" rifle that looks rather similar.
This. If I didn't have a bringback Real Deal from the guy I built the M4 and am setting up the M16A4 companion upper in memory of, I'd be giving Monty some long overdue and well deserved business.

markm

05-10-23, 08:54

This. If I didn't have a bringback Real Deal from the guy I built the M4 and am setting up the M16A4 companion upper in memory of, I'd be giving Monty some long overdue and well deserved business.

He just got the Mk18 FSB cut rail back in stock. Every time this happens, I've got my rail needs covered already. I just can do $280 for a rail to sit on the shelf. (I think this is the 3rd time over the years)

Diamondback

05-10-23, 08:57

He just got the Mk18 FSB cut rail back in stock. Every time this happens, I've got my rail needs covered already. I just can do $280 for a rail to sit on the shelf. (I think this is the 3rd time over the years)

I have them penciled in for my "ersatz GL/SSC," once we get WA State's gun grabs struck down and I put a few other projects o bed, one percolating over 20 years now.

markm

05-11-23, 13:39

I have them penciled in for my "ersatz GL/SSC," once we get WA State's gun grabs struck down and I put a few other projects o bed, one percolating over 20 years now.

My absolute dream Rail would be DD RIS II Mk18 FSB. They were expensive when they could be had. I probably couldn't bring myself to spend the money if a used one popped up.

Diamondback

05-11-23, 13:42

My absolute dream Rail would be DD RIS II Mk18 FSB. They were expensive when they could be had. I probably couldn't bring myself to spend the money if a used one popped up.

I hear ya, mine's the Unicorn Of Unicorns--DD cataloged and built an FSB GL/SSC rail, might have only been a very few prototypes before SOPMOD Program went "flattops all around." I like the simplicity of a fixed front sight unless other factors contraindicate, like need for discreet-carry.

markm

05-11-23, 13:57

I hear ya, mine's the Unicorn Of Unicorns--DD cataloged and built an FSB GL/SSC rail, might have only been a very few prototypes before SOPMOD Program went "flattops all around."

Probably a few gathering dust in some Arms room

Diamondback

05-11-23, 19:49

Probably a few gathering dust in some Arms room

DD only made 125 of the SSC-length total--100 to SOCOM and 25 gifted to insiders like Stick. I think I asked Stick once and he said even HE couldn't find anything about the FSB version, the only place I've ever seen it is ONE photo in a SOPMOD program Powerpoint or PDF that damned if I can find it again; IIRC the model number was DD-8040. (IIRC all RIS-IIs are 80_0 model numbers, odd next-to-lasts are flattop and even next-to-lasts are FSB, bigger number is longer.

IF memory serves:
8010/8020 - Mk 18
8030-8040 - GL/SSC
8050/8060 - M4 SOPMOD
?8070/8080 - M16-length

Again if memory serves, to build more GL/SSC's later other units had to get creative and MacGyverize with 10.75" KAC URX-II's and similar.

markm

05-12-23, 07:36

That's pretty cool. I'd never heard of that model.

Diamondback

05-12-23, 11:50

My bad. Odds cutout, evens flattop, not "ascending by length". The SOPMOD piece showed six different RIS-II variants, Mk18/SSC/M4 each in flattop and FSP setups.
8001 - 12.25" CAR flattop (M4)
8020 - 9.5" CAR flattop (Mk18)
8030 - 12" CAR FSP (M4)

I have a query in at DD Customer Service to see if anyone there can help us build the "definitive RIS-II family tree," and to find out if the Unicorn Of Unicorns ever really existed or was just a conceptual rendering.

markm

05-12-23, 12:42

I emailed them to make the Mk18 FSB again a few years ago, but no chance.

Diamondback

05-12-23, 17:51

I emailed them to make the Mk18 FSB again a few years ago, but no chance.
Right. I'm not asking them to MAKE anything, just help tell the story of their product. To do another run of ANY "dead model" they need a government-size order.

Bowser

05-13-23, 22:34

My absolute dream Rail would be DD RIS II Mk18 FSB. They were expensive when they could be had. I probably couldn't bring myself to spend the money if a used one popped up.

There's a guy on IG that will cut a DD RIS II FSB down to a MK18 FSB model.

https://www.instagram.com/chop_boss_official/

https://www.chopbossofficial.com/shop/p/mk18-conversion

Diamondback

05-15-23, 18:25

Answer from DD:

"Unfortunately nothing official regarding different rail prototypes that were made, but I can tell you that there are a ton that were tried out and prototyped, with only what has been released making it all the way to production and sale. We unfortunately don’t have a master list or catalog of all of those different variations, but I can say that we have made pretty much all of them in one way or another!"

Hammer_Man

05-15-23, 18:37

Diamondback

05-15-23, 18:41

I’m sure you can find a machinist willing to cut down and modify a RIS II to your liking.

Chop Boss is already mentioned... I'm approaching this not from an "I Want X" perspective but more from a historical study angle. :) Everything they've built (or conceived but not built) has a story behind it, and while many don't have happy endings, as a historian a part of me wants to tell those stories and the stories of the men behind the metal.

markm

05-15-23, 22:00

Interesting, but expensive and looks like the bayo stud has to go. Not a fan of that even though its not functional on a shorty. Reminds me of the clinton ban too much.

titsonritz

05-16-23, 11:27

Interesting, but expensive and looks like the bayo stud has to go. Not a fan of that even though its not functional on a shorty. Reminds me of the clinton ban too much.

I didn't mind chopping of the sling ears to install my Centurion C4 FSP mid-length but I would not have done it if I had to cut off the bayonet lug, the ONLY way I'd do that is if I cut the whole thing down to a LPGB (which I have yet to do and know you loath)

markm

05-16-23, 12:02

Yeah. I've punched the pin on the front sling and removed it. But even a shorty should have the bayo stud just for the horror of it! :cool:

Hammer_Man

05-16-23, 14:01

Yeah. I've punched the pin on the front sling and removed it. But even a shorty should have the bayo stud just for the horror of it! :cool:

My OCD won’t allow me to even consider running a FSB without the lug of doom.

markm

05-16-23, 14:53

My OCD won’t allow me to even consider running a FSB without the lug of doom.

Thank you. I remember goobers milling them off in the Clinton ban. Should have milled off their testicles too.