View Full Version : Stolen Valor? Or no?
I am a merchant marine. A civilian, and nothing else during times the US is not at war. (If the US declares war we merchant marines “can be” called upon to help supply the battle lines via ship).
I went to a maritime academy and graduated with a United States Coast Guard issued license. I’ve been keeping my license current and up to date with the USCG for 18 years and counting.
Today I work as a harbor pilot and have my State’s Commission through a letter from the governor to work as a state appointed pilot. My service to the state is to protect the shores and harbors by bringing in ships safely and securely to the port(s).
I am also a First Responder. The county I work in has deemed myself and my group of coworkers to be beneficial during times of hurricane or any other disaster that could occur on the coast. The county officials know they can use our expertise as well as our readily available and heavily capable pilot boat for rescue and recon services.
I don’t go about toting my services nor try to stand out as a person of any sort of service. Believe me, I know and respect those of the active service, as well as some vets. My wife’s (also a merchant marine) younger brother is a USMC marine. Her sister is a Major in the USAF and HER husband is a General in the USAF. See, I know folks who deserve the respect, for sure.
But my question is: for example: when I am asked at a ticket counter if anyone is active military, Vet, law enforcement etc. I usually throw out that I am a merchant marine, US coast guard licensed, and a first responder in my county. Viola! I get the discount. Never thought much about it.
Well, today at the Williamsburg Colonial park in VA at the ticket counter I said I am a merchant marine yada yada, got the discount, then I got a little blue star on my display tag. A few people throughout the day noticed and thanked me for my service. I’m not used to it. A few asked what my mos was and I explained how I’m a merchant marine. I just help ships deliver goods to this country. Yadayada. USCG license yadayada. But also a first responder yadayada, “if war broke out” yadayada. I dunno. Is this stolen Valor?
Turns out, a lot of people know other merchant marines. We aren’t an armed force, so we are not really celebrated, and I get it. Old joke back at the academy was always “we could get shot at, but we don’t EVER get to shoot back…we’re just sitting ducks”
Well, today at the Williamsburg Colonial park in VA at the ticket counter I said I am a merchant marine yada yada, got the discount, then I got a little blue star on my display tag. A few people throughout the day noticed and thanked me for my service. I’m not used to it. A few asked what my mos was and I explained how I’m a merchant marine. I just help ships deliver goods to this country. Yadayada. USCG license yadayada. But also a first responder yadayada, “if war broke out” yadayada. I dunno. Is this stolen Valor?
If they gave you a blue star, then you are a blue star. Not everybody is Audie Murphy, some people just bring Audie Murphy the stuff he needs to do MoH stuff. That seems to be you.
If you can be called into harms way, then I think you qualify regardless of if it has ever happened or not. It's not like you misrepresented yourself for personal gain.
I don't mean to sound harsh with this.
I wouldn't consider it Stolen Valor, but I don't consider you a Vet either.
If you served during wartime carrying military cargo to a war zone I'd consider you a Vet.
I'm a recently retired Marine Engineer, my license expired last Dec. I served four years in the Navy then got my MMD and went back to sea to earn my Engineer's License.
I may be off base with my assessment but having done both I know what I have in mind when I declare my Veterans status.
Although, I knew some academy grads that were commissioned in the Naval Reserve. I thought that was standard.
Maybe it's only Kings Point and not the state academy's.
hoopharted
05-02-23, 02:40
if you were never active reserves meaning you report to duty once a month ,and a 2 week stretch once a year or served a hitch of active duty in a recognized branch of the US Armed Services i would not consider you a vet , its pretty clear those things are required ,and its very black and white , if you have to paint a picture like you just displayed to get there and still have to ask i think deep down you already know the answer to your question ,if you cant say yes to at least one of those two most basic of requirements and are going around presenting yourself as a vet i think you're more than stretching ,and are deep in scumbag territory , are you able to go to the VA for health care? i doubt it
if it were me , i would never feel comfortable trying to color those lines , not to diminish that resume , but your question was does your resume constitute Veteran status , for me no , i may be wrong but harbor master doesnt cut it , a requirement certificate for harbor master from the CG doesnt get you there , my understanding is the cert from the Coast Guard is under their jurisdiction because they need to be sure you know what you are doing , its not a enlistment process , a hypothetical war time scenario on a civilian vessel simply doesnt get you there , a merchant Marine is not a branch of armed service
to be a veteran means you served actively ,you put your life on hold to serve your country in its defense , i served in the US Submarine Service , if you tally the time i spent on a Sub submerged i have more than 2 years of my life that expired submerged under the ocean , all the men in my family and the women in my family have started to adopt this as well must serve at least one hitch in the armed services , it does not matter if you are a cook in the Coast Guard ,fighter pilot or a Navy Seal you do a hitch , if one of my family members tried to pull this crap to get out of their obligation they would get their ass kicked
hoopharted
05-02-23, 03:09
If they gave you a blue star, then you are a blue star. Not everybody is Audie Murphy, some people just bring Audie Murphy the stuff he needs to do MoH stuff. That seems to be you.
If you can be called into harms way, then I think you qualify regardless of if it has ever happened or not. It's not like you misrepresented yourself for personal gain.
what branch did you serve, it seems you subscribe to a loose interpretation of what qualifies as a vet , sorta like what ive never heard come from a vet ,which it would surprise me to here you say you are , no veteran is going to accept this as "close enough" as you imply "well its not like you did it for personal gain" , WTF is that ?
no ones saying the guy needs to be a war hero , or battle hardened , or floating in the south pacific for a week with sharks to call himself a vet, only that he meets the most basic of requirements , to have actually served in a branch of the US Armed Services , a merchant marine is not a veteran , a harbor pilot is not a veteran , a certificate for a course issued by the CG makes a veteran not, family members who served does not make you a veteran , nothing the OP listed qualifies as veteran status , so technically yes its stolen valor because hes presenting himself as such on the backs of those that have served , someone who pulls this crap i would never have a beer with , someone who enables someone like this i would never have a beer with
I am a merchant marine. A civilian, and nothing else during times the US is not at war. (If the US declares war we merchant marines “can be” called upon to help supply the battle lines via ship).
I went to a maritime academy and graduated with a United States Coast Guard issued license. I’ve been keeping my license current and up to date with the USCG for 18 years and counting.
Today I work as a harbor pilot and have my State’s Commission through a letter from the governor to work as a state appointed pilot. My service to the state is to protect the shores and harbors by bringing in ships safely and securely to the port(s).
I am also a First Responder. The county I work in has deemed myself and my group of coworkers to be beneficial during times of hurricane or any other disaster that could occur on the coast. The county officials know they can use our expertise as well as our readily available and heavily capable pilot boat for rescue and recon services.
I don’t go about toting my services nor try to stand out as a person of any sort of service. Believe me, I know and respect those of the active service, as well as some vets. My wife’s (also a merchant marine) younger brother is a USMC marine. Her sister is a Major in the USAF and HER husband is a General in the USAF. See, I know folks who deserve the respect, for sure.
But my question is: for example: when I am asked at a ticket counter if anyone is active military, Vet, law enforcement etc. I usually throw out that I am a merchant marine, US coast guard licensed, and a first responder in my county. Viola! I get the discount. Never thought much about it.
Well, today at the Williamsburg Colonial park in VA at the ticket counter I said I am a merchant marine yada yada, got the discount, then I got a little blue star on my display tag. A few people throughout the day noticed and thanked me for my service. I’m not used to it. A few asked what my mos was and I explained how I’m a merchant marine. I just help ships deliver goods to this country. Yadayada. USCG license yadayada. But also a first responder yadayada, “if war broke out” yadayada. I dunno. Is this stolen Valor?
Turns out, a lot of people know other merchant marines. We aren’t an armed force, so we are not really celebrated, and I get it. Old joke back at the academy was always “we could get shot at, but we don’t EVER get to shoot back…we’re just sitting ducks”
It’s only stolen valor if you lie. If you’re honest about what you do/did and some place gives you a discount for that, it’s not stolen valor. I wouldn’t really call you a veteran but I don’t use that term anyways because it’s definition is loose AF.
This isn’t something to even worry about IMO.
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hoopharted
05-02-23, 03:28
It’s only stolen valor if you lie. If you’re honest about what you do/did and some place gives you a discount for that, it’s not stolen valor. I wouldn’t really call you a veteran but I don’t use that term anyways because it’s definition is loose AF.
This isn’t something to even worry about IMO.
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this is also bullshit , the term Veteran is loose? oh please explain ,do tell , i need to hear this
its only stolen valor if you lie , the very fact hes calling himself a veteran is a lie
this is like hes saying hes a MLB player , and you're saying , well he did play little league as a kid , AND received participation trophies so theres that
this is also bullshit , the term Veteran is loose? oh please explain ,do tell , i need to hear this
its only stolen valor if you lie , the very fact hes calling himself a veteran is a lie
Slow your roll, hero. He never called himself a vet nor did he even ask if he was a vet. A business gave him a discount and he’s asking if that’s ok. It’s up to the business to define and their employees to decide if people meet that definition.
And yes it’s loose because there are plenty of shit people that “earn” that term.
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hoopharted
05-02-23, 04:55
he is trying to connect himself as a veteran because he is a merchant marine , harbor pilot , bass fisherman , bat mitten player who knows what , thats wrong , if he wants a pin for first responder fine he has eared that HE asked if it was stolen valor to call himself a veteran and laid out his qualifications that he felt that did , the answer is no , nothing he presented qualifies him as a veteran , as such if he goes around checking the box are you a veteran , then YES that is stolen valor
what branch did you serve , since your doling out hall pass's and participation trophies for everyone
and no , Veteran is not a loose term , you either are or you are not , it really is that cut and dry
i think you should take a field day through a VA hospital sometime and then explain to me how loose of a term "Veteran" is
he is trying to connect himself as a veteran because he is a merchant marine , harbor pilot , bass fisherman , bat mitten player who knows what , thats wrong , if he wants a pin for first responder fine he has eared that HE asked if it was stolen valor to call himself a veteran and laid out his qualifications that he felt that did , the answer is no , nothing he presented qualifies him as a veteran , as such if he goes around checking the box are you a veteran , then YES that is stolen valor
what branch did you serve , since your doling out hall pass's for everyone
and no , Veteran is not a loose term , you either are or you are not , it really is that cut and dry
What branch did I serve? Are you ****ing kidding me?
Why don’t you learn to read and write first. Then take some time to also get over yourself and stop trying to get into mil service dick measuring contests on a gun forum. Nobody thinks it’s cool.
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Are you a vet? No.
Is it stolen valor? No.
It sounds as if you serve your community and possibly our nation. Thank you.
If someone wants to give you a discount so be it. Many public service people get discounts at many different venues.
Keep in mind that just because you ask many won’t feel comfortable saying no, whether they agree or not.
Rifleman_04
05-02-23, 06:22
Most people don’t know what a merchant marine is so there is that. You aren’t active, reserve or retired military, law enforcement, fire department or ems so yeah it’s a bit shady but whatever I don’t get worked up over private companies giving discounts to whoever.
Just to get in on the fun I’ll add that I don’t consider anyone a veteran that didn’t deploy to a combat zone. That’s how we were raised in my old unit.
I don't disagree with Wake that the word veteran is used loosely.
An example: I and my best friend both retired with a bit over 20 years in the Army and for most of that time we shared an MOS. I deployed 3 times, he never deployed. The VA and civilian world make no distinction between us, we are both veterans. I can go to the Vet Center, he cannot.
Another example: I work with at least 4 retired SF/Ranger SNCOs who also deployed multiple times. I was a maintainer, they were tip of the spear. My service does not equate to theirs, but we are all veterans who spent years in combat zones.
Yet another example: 2 of my sons served - 1 USMC Combat Engineer, 1 US Army Airborne Infantry. Neither deployed to a combat zone. Their service carries as much weight in my mind as my own.
Andy
Just to get in on the fun I’ll add that I don’t consider anyone a veteran that didn’t deploy to a combat zone. That’s how we were raised in my old unit.
That’s a strict interpretation, millions would say you’re wrong. Maybe that’s why we have VFWs and combat vets, to differentiate. I think it’s arrogant to diminish anyone’s faithful service.
Rifleman_04
05-02-23, 06:37
That’s a strict interpretation, millions would say you’re wrong. Maybe that’s why we have VFWs and combat vets, to differentiate. I think it’s arrogant to diminish anyone’s faithful service.
I’m not saying it’s right, just how we were brought up in the early units I was in. Marines are assholes I guess.
We had a boot show up to the unit with USMC Veteran plates on his truck. His home state handed them out to anyone that was in the military. Didn’t go over well with our senior enlisted.
That’s a strict interpretation, millions would say you’re wrong. Maybe that’s why we have VFWs and combat vets, to differentiate. I think it’s arrogant to diminish anyone’s faithful service.
The words "in my old unit" make a difference here. We had an informal visit with a general in the mid-2000s and he overtly did not speak to anyone without a combat patch. We "veterans" were amused.
Andy
if you were never active reserves meaning you report to duty once a month ,and a 2 week stretch once a year or served a hitch of active duty in a recognized branch of the US Armed Services i would not consider you a vet , its pretty clear those things are required ,and its very black and white , if you have to paint a picture like you just displayed to get there and still have to ask i think deep down you already know the answer to your question ,if you cant say yes to at least one of those two most basic of requirements and are going around presenting yourself as a vet i think you're more than stretching ,and are deep in scumbag territory , are you able to go to the VA for health care? i doubt it
if it were me , i would never feel comfortable trying to color those lines , not to diminish that resume , but your question was does your resume constitute Veteran status , for me no , i may be wrong but harbor master doesnt cut it , a requirement certificate for harbor master from the CG doesnt get you there , my understanding is the cert from the Coast Guard is under their jurisdiction because they need to be sure you know what you are doing , its not a enlistment process , a hypothetical war time scenario on a civilian vessel simply doesnt get you there , a merchant Marine is not a branch of armed service
to be a veteran means you served actively ,you put your life on hold to serve your country in its defense , i served in the US Submarine Service , if you tally the time i spent on a Sub submerged i have more than 2 years of my life that expired submerged under the ocean , all the men in my family and the women in my family have started to adopt this as well must serve at least one hitch in the armed services , it does not matter if you are a cook in the Coast Guard ,fighter pilot or a Navy Seal you do a hitch , if one of my family members tried to pull this crap to get out of their obligation they would get their ass kicked
what branch did you serve, it seems you subscribe to a loose interpretation of what qualifies as a vet , sorta like what ive never heard come from a vet ,which it would surprise me to here you say you are , no veteran is going to accept this as "close enough" as you imply "well its not like you did it for personal gain" , WTF is that ?
no ones saying the guy needs to be a war hero , or battle hardened , or floating in the south pacific for a week with sharks to call himself a vet, only that he meets the most basic of requirements , to have actually served in a branch of the US Armed Services , a merchant marine is not a veteran , a harbor pilot is not a veteran , a certificate for a course issued by the CG makes a veteran not, family members who served does not make you a veteran , nothing the OP listed qualifies as veteran status , so technically yes its stolen valor because hes presenting himself as such on the backs of those that have served , someone who pulls this crap i would never have a beer with , someone who enables someone like this i would never have a beer with
First of all, complete sentences and punctuations are your friends, not your enemies. They'd make your posts a lot more readable.
Second, you also sound like a person a lot of people would likely not have a beer with, vet or not.
Third, getting to substance, while technically the VA definition is correct because they have to make the definition to determine who is eligible for what bennies, I am fine with calling any reserve or national guard veteran a veteran even if they were not recalled to active duty. They signed the contract and swore the same oath. So while the VA will treat them differently, to me, yes, they are a veteran.
Germaine to the question, is it stolen valor? No. The law specifies pretty clearly what stolen valor really is. Are you a vet? No. But what you are getting isn't going to cause me to hate you or lose sleep at night.
I agree with several others who said that it's up to the business to determine the qualifications for a discount, not us. When asked if you are a Vet you say you are a Merchant Marine, you don't agree to "Vet" so I don't see that as lying. You made the distinction.
Having said that, my opinion is worthless since I did not serve in any capacity. Just throwing it out there that I don't think it's stolen valor.
he is trying to connect himself as a veteran because he is a merchant marine , harbor pilot , bass fisherman , bat mitten player who knows what , thats wrong , if he wants a pin for first responder fine he has eared that HE asked if it was stolen valor to call himself a veteran and laid out his qualifications that he felt that did , the answer is no , nothing he presented qualifies him as a veteran , as such if he goes around checking the box are you a veteran , then YES that is stolen valor
Please tell me you wrote it that way on purpose! LOL
I know people who never made it out of boot camp that have veteran license plates. It's a very subjective term. Stolen valor is a very narrow and specific definition. You're good to go, you put in some time enjoy your discounts if it's important to you.
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Please tell me you wrote it that way on purpose! LOL
That dude's most likely an ASVAB waiver.
Averageman
05-02-23, 08:45
I don't know, First, not many people know what the Merchant Marine's do, or did in WWII. They paid a pretty heavy price getting goods to England, so yeah I count that as
"Service".
As far as "Discounts", they always make me wonder, cause if they can knock 10% off the top for me being a Veteran, how much are they over charging me?
As far as being a "Combat Veteran", that's a pretty exclusive club, never wanted to be in it, but now I'm a part of it. This might be one of the only places I talk about it at all. I look like Jerry Garcia, but I don't get out a lot. Just me, the dog, the yard and garden and a lot of guns and guitars.
I don't know, First, not many people know what the Merchant Marine's do, or did in WWII. They paid a pretty heavy price getting goods to England, so yeah I count that as
"Service".
As far as "Discounts", they always make me wonder, cause if they can knock 10% off the top for me being a Veteran, how much are they over charging me?
As far as being a "Combat Veteran", that's a pretty exclusive club, never wanted to be in it, but now I'm a part of it. This might be one of the only places I talk about it at all. I look like Jerry Garcia, but I don't get out a lot. Just me, the dog, the yard and garden and a lot of guns and guitars.
Even 'combat veteran' has to be taken at face value and is subjective based on a multitude of opinions: being shot at? Returning fire? Actual firefight? Outside the wire? Sustained casualties? Blah blah freaking blah. Again, I don't really care. If someone was 'there' and claims to be a 'combat vet', unless they start lying about what they did, I am OK with that claim.
RE: discounted services for first responders. When I was a paramedic many places offered discounts for 'first responders'. But then someone got on their high horse and made a stink about 'well, it should be for the paid folks, not the volunteers'. Same bull crap, different job. So the jolly volly who gets a page in the middle of the night to put out your house fire or cut someone out of a wrecked car is not worthy of a first responder discount? GTFOH..... To me they were more deserving to get it than I because they were doing it out of altruism and I was at least getting paid.
As far as "Discounts", they always make me wonder, cause if they can knock 10% off the top for me being a Veteran, how much are they over charging me?
There is NOTHING more annoying than the fukks who pester venders/stores/retailers/restaurants for Military Discount. I'm not opposed to the Mil or people who served getting benefits, but shit. There's a handful of MFers who need to give it a rest. It's not just the old farts either. SOME active duty guys are just as bad.
There is NOTHING more annoying than the fukks who pester venders/stores/retailers/restaurants for Military Discount. I'm not opposed to the Mil or people who served getting benefits, but shit. There's a handful of MFers who need to give it a rest. It's not just the old farts either. SOME active duty guys are just as bad.
I have a good friend, a Navy Captain (that's right, an O6) who asks all. The. Time. He's a great guy, just a cheap-ass tightwad. He embarrasses me, I will walk away when he does this. I told him he makes a crap-ton as a captain and it sets a bad example.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
05-02-23, 10:02
Sounds like the OP has to give a five minute dissertation when he asks for a veteran discount. Then he has to get on a forum and ask if what he is doing is ok. Both things should probably let the OP know that it likely isn't.
I spent four years in the Marine Corps and only ever deployed on a boat. I've done far more for my community as a police officer over the last 11 years than I did for my country while as a Marine. I am very hesitant to ask for any discount....
If it takes me five minutes to explain how I am a certain thing in a round about way, I am clearly not that thing...
It's pretty simple. Either you have a DD-214 or you don't.
It's pretty simple. Either you have a DD-214 or you don't.
While I agree that this identifies Veteran status, the OP's question on discounts at this establishment also applied to first responders, police, etc. The stipulations weren't as black and white as Veteran or not
Not a vet here. I don't think stolen valor is the right term, but by the formal def of a veteran, you're not I believe, so I'd say do what your conscience tells you to do in such a situation. By asking, I suspect you already know the answer as it applies to your conscience there. By asking, you obviously care and that's points to you regardless.
I'd also add, few aware of the bravery and sacrifices made by MM in WWII and being sitting ducks for German U Boats. The MM have a legacy to be proud of and stepped up when it really mattered, so combat vets in my eyes.
Finally, while I am not a vet, I bet I have more experiences with real SV than most here, being a tour/answer guy at the UDT-SEAL museum. I got stories...
It's pretty simple. Either you have a DD-214 or you don't.
When I retired from the reserves I didn't get a DD-214. Nor when I got out of boot camp. Mine came from deployments to all the same spots everyone else here went. But if I never deployed but spent over 20 years would I be a veteran? I have a friend that never deployed and retired after 22 years. He draws a small VA disability and a Guard retirement check every month. I consider him a veteran.
When I retired from the reserves I didn't get a DD-214. Nor when I got out of boot camp. Mine came from deployments to all the same spots everyone else here went. But if I never deployed but spent over 20 years would I be a veteran? I have a friend that never deployed and retired after 22 years. He draws a small VA disability and a Guard retirement check every month. I consider him a veteran.Retirement and Initial entry training should be DD-214 eligible events, but I'm not an admin dude so if we have any here please clarify.
On the other end of the spectrum, peeps like me deployed but bailed prior to retirement eligibility and many establishments don't consider that good enough for their discounts. Fine by me, those that punched the clock for 20 big ones can take those. Home Depot used to be that way until Lowes kicked their ass by being more vet friendly and they were forced by the market demand to be less strict in the criteria.
That dude's most likely an ASVAB waiver.
LULZ :lol:
It's pretty simple. Either you have a DD-214 or you don't.
As stated, not necessarily true, especially through guard or reserve enlistment options.
As stated, not necessarily true, especially through guard or reserve enlistment options.
I was on active duty, but I am no admin guy. How many years do you have to serve or points do you have to accumulate in the NG before you would be issued a DD-214 upon separation?
Since the discounts they gave you applied to more than just "vet", it seems reasonable to me if they want to give them to you, but i'm not a vet so my opinion doesn't carry much weight here.
I've struggled with the "first responder" thing though. I'm on a very active Search and Rescue team, through the sheriffs office, and we are sworn in and have Sheriff Office IDs and badges, but technically our team is a volunteer team under Emergency Services. It's a hard to get on, and we put in a ton of hours, training, certifications, and average 100-150 callouts/rescues ever year, that include technical mountain rescue, swiftwater, open water, advanced medical, heli ops, dive recovery, and body recoveries etc. I've never really considered myself a "first responder" in the same sense of those getting paid in Fire or LEO etc, so i usually say no when people ask if i'm a first responder for a discount. I do however take advantage of the Pro-Deals we get for gear purchases, which is a nice perk.
Not sure if that adds any relevance to the conversation, but i understand the struggle a bit I guess, at least in one small aspect.
I was on active duty, but I am no admin guy. How many years do you have to serve or points do you have to accumulate in the NG before you would be issued a DD-214 upon separation?
Not sure with guard guys. When I was in the reserve you got a point per 4-hour block of drill, so 4 points for a weekend, one point per day of any active duty (the annual 2 week obligation). You got 15 points 'just because'. I think we needed 50 points a year. Those 50 points would give you a 'good' year, and you needed 20 'good' years for retirement.
BUT: you can't be an eager beaver and do correspondence courses, IDTTs/ADTs ('mini-AT'), schools, etc., to build up points to retire early.
So you can retire at 20 with no active duty aside from your 2-week obligation. The only DD-214 would be boot if you went through 'normal' boot camp. The Navy Reserve used to have programs were they'd do an abbreviated 'special boot camp', which was actually treated as an AT period, so no 214. The normal reserve discharge certificate was (is?) a DD-256/257. So we'd see folks do a full 20 years, but not get a DD-214.
I think the guard is different because there's state stuff as well. I could be wrong.
Since the discounts they gave you applied to more than just "vet", it seems reasonable to me if they want to give them to you, but i'm not a vet so my opinion doesn't carry much weight here.
I've struggled with the "first responder" thing though. I'm on a very active Search and Rescue team, through the sheriffs office, and we are sworn in and have Sheriff Office IDs and badges, but technically our team is a volunteer team under Emergency Services. It's a hard to get on, and we put in a ton of hours, training, certifications, and average 100-150 callouts/rescues ever year, that include technical mountain rescue, swiftwater, open water, advanced medical, heli ops, dive recovery, and body recoveries etc. I've never really considered myself a "first responder" in the same sense of those getting paid in Fire or LEO etc, so i usually say no when people ask if i'm a first responder for a discount. I do however take advantage of the Pro-Deals we get for gear purchases, which is a nice perk.
Not sure if that adds any relevance to the conversation, but i understand the struggle a bit I guess, at least in one small aspect.
Yeah, I'd say you are good to go. "First responder" is anyone in emergency services, paid or volunteer, LE/FD/EMS/SAR/rescue/HAZMAT. You've earned it.
In the age of inflation, shrinkflation, criminally underpaid wages, and companies making obscene profits.. is anybody seriously arguing that they're more noble for paying full price? Isn't that like a thank me for my service in its own way?
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Not sure with guard guys. When I was in the reserve you got a point per 4-hour block of drill, so 4 points for a weekend, one point per day of any active duty (the annual 2 week obligation). You got 15 points 'just because'. I think we needed 50 points a year. Those 50 points would give you a 'good' year, and you needed 20 'good' years for retirement.
BUT: you can't be an eager beaver and do correspondence courses, IDTTs/ADTs ('mini-AT'), schools, etc., to build up points to retire early.
So you can retire at 20 with no active duty aside from your 2-week obligation. The only DD-214 would be boot if you went through 'normal' boot camp. The Navy Reserve used to have programs were they'd do an abbreviated 'special boot camp', which was actually treated as an AT period, so no 214. The normal reserve discharge certificate was (is?) a DD-256/257. So we'd see folks do a full 20 years, but not get a DD-214.
I think the guard is different because there's state stuff as well. I could be wrong.Makes sense. DD-214, Retired ID card, VA disability card, and drivers license veterans designation are all considered methods of verifying status around here typically. Online they now have ID.me and a few other web services that look up your status for e-commerce.
Averageman
05-02-23, 14:03
Sounds like the OP has to give a five minute dissertation when he asks for a veteran discount. Then he has to get on a forum and ask if what he is doing is ok. Both things should probably let the OP know that it likely isn't.
I spent four years in the Marine Corps and only ever deployed on a boat. I've done far more for my community as a police officer over the last 11 years than I did for my country while as a Marine. I am very hesitant to ask for any discount....
If it takes me five minutes to explain how I am a certain thing in a round about way, I am clearly not that thing...
You know, that's cool buddy.
My Brother started off Military Life as a Reporter for the News, no kidding. He has ran newspaper and radio stations all over the World for the Army. I was his Army Recruiter and it was a very difficult job to get, but he had a degree and experiance and it all fell together.
At one point in the 72 hour wait at MEPPS, he told me he would be happy to be on Tanks like me if it was open. Having personally kicked my 11B Dad in the nuts by going Armor Branch, I couldn't let my Brother do it too.
Plus there was already a very (In)Famous couple of Brothers who were Cousins of ours in Armor. I had dirty boots everywhere I went until Iexplained we were cousins.
So my Brother has a great Career and ends up in PAO in Baghdad. He escorted Reporters throughout the war zone.
I had no MF'ing idea just how dangerous that was.
Anyway, my Brother Retires from the Army and goes to work for the Local Sheriffs Department in Bum F' Arizona and raises 3 kids by himself.
There's usually a lot more to people that you might see on the surface.
In the age of inflation, shrinkflation, criminally underpaid wages, and companies making obscene profits.. is anybody seriously arguing that they're more noble for paying full price? Isn't that like a thank me for my service in its own way?
Sent from my SM-A326U using TapatalkMy unwritten rule of thumb is Vietnam era and older vets get dibs on the free meals on veterans day. Someday when they are all dead maybe it will be my turn. I am happy however to check for the discounts online and take advantage of lowes and home depot discounts. I don't go out of my way to seek every penny I can. It's a job we signed up for and got compensated well for tax free in some cases.
My unwritten rule of thumb is Vietnam era and older vets get dibs on the free meals on veterans day. Someday when they are all dead maybe it will be my turn. I am happy however to check for the discounts online and take advantage of lowes and home depot discounts. I don't go out of my way to seek every penny I can. It's a job we signed up for and got compensated well for tax free in some cases.There is nothing worse than the cheap person who can afford it but is just cheap. Nothing makes a vagina dry up faster. I'll hit every industry, promo, online discount I can get my hands on, but I'm not asking the clerk at the store for a discount.
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Pacific5th
05-02-23, 14:13
My Grandpa was a Merchant Marine and then worked for Sealand until he retired. I found out after he died that during Vietnam he was bringing ships into ports where they were getting ranked by AK and sometimes Machine gun fire. He never once claimed he was a veteran or even tried. Now I am a vet and I can legitimately say combat vet if I wanted but I never have played that card, it’s F’in stupid. I’m also a train engineer now and occasionally I handle military trains, some are even guarded if it’s some kind of hot shit. So could I say I should get a veterans discount for that? I mean I’m hauling military loads! I think not.
Look if you can flash your ID and get a discount good for you. But I would not claim I was a vet. Thank you for what you do, seriously. I got stuck on ship a few times and watched some underway replenishments. It was impressive.
Yeah, I'd say you are good to go. "First responder" is anyone in emergency services, paid or volunteer, LE/FD/EMS/SAR/rescue/HAZMAT. You've earned it.
I consider myself a third responder: 1. scene crew(s) 2. pilot 3. nurse and I
Not sure with guard guys. When I was in the reserve you got a point per 4-hour block of drill, so 4 points for a weekend, one point per day of any active duty (the annual 2 week obligation). You got 15 points 'just because'. I think we needed 50 points a year. Those 50 points would give you a 'good' year, and you needed 20 'good' years for retirement.
BUT: you can't be an eager beaver and do correspondence courses, IDTTs/ADTs ('mini-AT'), schools, etc., to build up points to retire early.
So you can retire at 20 with no active duty aside from your 2-week obligation. The only DD-214 would be boot if you went through 'normal' boot camp. The Navy Reserve used to have programs were they'd do an abbreviated 'special boot camp', which was actually treated as an AT period, so no 214. The normal reserve discharge certificate was (is?) a DD-256/257. So we'd see folks do a full 20 years, but not get a DD-214.
I think the guard is different because there's state stuff as well. I could be wrong.
Roger that. At times we had Navy Reserve personnel report to an active-duty station in Virginia to rack up two weeks active-duty time. Most I met were prior active service members.
what branch did you serve, it seems you subscribe to a loose interpretation of what qualifies as a vet , sorta like what ive never heard come from a vet ,which it would surprise me to here you say you are , no veteran is going to accept this as "close enough" as you imply "well its not like you did it for personal gain" , WTF is that ?
Not a vet, and I don't consider the OP qualifies as a vet either. But I do believe he qualifies for what amounts to a service discount for military and related fields.
I doubt the discount is for veterans ONLY otherwise guys who were 11Bs for 4 years but never saw action and then got out wouldn't even qualify.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
05-02-23, 15:21
Not a vet, and I don't consider the OP qualifies as a vet either. But I do believe he qualifies for what amounts to a service discount for military and related fields.
I doubt the discount is for veterans ONLY otherwise guys who were 11Bs for 4 years but never saw action and then got out wouldn't even qualify.
Thats not how being a veteran works....
Thats not how being a veteran works....
Depends who you ask. General rule that I’ve seen is the distinction between vet and combat vet. Basically if you did any mil service and didn’t get a dishonorable, the veteran term is often applied.
Combat vet is much more closely guarded, as it should be, but even then is still a lot of personal opinion.
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If somebody describes themselves as a combat vet, odds are they're probably not. Veteran is a legal definition, for benefit purposes. That's all they are. Everybody's experience is different, and as always all it turns into is a dick measuring contest.
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ChattanoogaPhil
05-02-23, 16:18
If I'm reading you correctly, you were uncomfortable wearing that blue star because you felt it gave folks the wrong impression of your service. Sounds like a man of good character and a nagging conscience on this one. As others have posted... follow your conscience. Cheers.
Thats not how being a veteran works....
I know that, but lots of people think otherwise. I know some people who think even if you deploy in time of war, but never actually see action you aren't really a combat veteran. At the other end are people who consider every single person in the military, regardless of MOS to be a veteran. There is usually a weird distinction at play also with "veteran" and "combat veteran" being distinct classifications although I'm not sure the military itself uses anything other than veteran.
And I also think that is a huge part of the OP's issue is using words like "veteran" when he should be saying "eligible for a service discount."
If I'm reading you correctly, you were uncomfortable wearing that blue star because you felt it gave folks the wrong impression of your service. Sounds like a man of good character and a nagging conscience on this one. As others have posted... follow your conscience. Cheers.
That is almost exactly how I read it and pretty much how I feel about it.
Stolen Valor is a real thing that rightly pisses off service members. If somebody gets employment preference, elected to office or otherwise enjoys benefits set aside for members of the military, they need to dealt with.
But a service discount provided to LE/MIL and a lot of other folks, where the OP seems to be qualified for possibly multiple ways is not the same thing. I think he was good at "merchant marine." If the government at any point can enter your life and send you into harms way, that should be sufficient for 10% off your daily coffee.
I offer LE/MIL discounts to individuals buying their own stuff and all I need from them for confirmation from some kind of @.gov email.
ChattanoogaPhil
05-02-23, 18:16
Thats not how being a veteran works....
Right.
My wife is a Vietnam era veteran. She didn't serve in Vietnam. She was MP in Alaska.
The VSO told my Dad he could not access the VA because he wasn't a veteran. He served in the late 1950s.
The VSO has probably been dead and buried for a while now.
Andy
The VSO told my Dad he could not access the VA because he wasn't a veteran. He served in the late 1950s.
The VSO has probably been dead and buried for a while now.
Andy
That depends on what treatment or other benefits a Veteran is seeking from the VA. For a disability claim or access to medical benefits the norm is to require a service-connected disability or service in a combat role.
In which branch did your father serve?
Thanks folks. All great responses so far. Keep ‘em coming.
I’ll reexplain that I do not ever ask for the discount. But if a clerk asks, which they usually do at these museums, parks, zoos, etc “anyone active military or a vet?” I shrug and say what I say. ( which doesn’t take five minutes) I say merchant marine and first responder. What’s weirder to me is that none of them ask for creds. They just push a button and the discount is applied. I’d say it’s on them to be a little more concerned about who all gets a discount or not.
I’ll also go on to add that I would never standup at an event where the announcer has requested “will anyone of the armed forces please stand for recognition of your service”. They usually do this at redoes, concerts, sporting events and church on Memorial Day, 4th of July, Flag Day, etc. I never have and never will stand. Not looking for recognition or stealing any recognition from our true vets.
Also, I have never jumped in line at the airport. Ex: Most, if not all airlines these days will board group A or whatever then the super elite status first class folks then any active military or vets. I would never steal a place in line for something like that. Actives and vets; please take your place, you deserve that. I do not.
FWIW when I was wearing the blue star and conversations came up, just about every person reaponsed with “cool! My mom was the first female graduate of Massachusetts Maritime!” Or “cool, my dad went to kings point and taught there for fifteen years after!” “Great line of work, sir!” So that was all good to hear.
So, I’ll go on living my life and providing the service that I do, and I’ll remain to be proud of it. If a discount or two comes my way…nothing wrong with saving a buck, right?
That depends on what treatment or other benefits a Veteran is seeking from the VA. For a disability claim or access to medical benefits the norm is to require a service-connected disability or service in a combat role.
In which branch did your father serve?
Dad was in the Army, but in truth the guy was a small town VSO (?) who made decisions way above his paygrade. Dad had significant hearing loss when he left the military, and the VA now would not question it being service connected.
Andy
Thanks folks. All great responses so far. Keep ‘em coming.
I’ll reexplain that I do not ever ask for the discount. But if a clerk asks, which they usually do at these museums, parks, zoos, etc “anyone active military or a vet?” I shrug and say what I say. ( which doesn’t take five minutes) I say merchant marine and first responder. What’s weirder to me is that none of them ask for creds. They just push a button and the discount is applied. I’d say it’s on them to be a little more concerned about who all gets a discount or not.
I’ll also go on to add that I would never standup at an event where the announcer has requested “will anyone of the armed forces please stand for recognition of your service”. They usually do this at redoes, concerts, sporting events and church on Memorial Day, 4th of July, Flag Day, etc. I never have and never will stand. Not looking for recognition or stealing any recognition from our true vets.
Also, I have never jumped in line at the airport. Ex: Most, if not all airlines these days will board group A or whatever then the super elite status first class folks then any active military or vets. I would never steal a place in line for something like that. Actives and vets; please take your place, you deserve that. I do not.
FWIW when I was wearing the blue star and conversations came up, just about every person reaponsed with “cool! My mom was the first female graduate of Massachusetts Maritime!” Or “cool, my dad went to kings point and taught there for fifteen years after!” “Great line of work, sir!” So that was all good to hear.
So, I’ll go on living my life and providing the service that I do, and I’ll remain to be proud of it. If a discount or two comes my way…nothing wrong with saving a buck, right?
You made/make no claims that are false. You are a 1st responder and clear about that. No Valor stolen.
Andy
Rifleman_04
05-02-23, 21:54
Sure people can assign themselves genders make up pronouns these days so call yourself whatever you want and pat yourself on the back about it.
Averageman
05-02-23, 22:12
When I think of the Merchant Marines, I remember those poor schmucks crossing the Atlantic on a POS "Victory Ship" that someone superglued a M-2 to the deck of.
Pretty much moving targets for U=Boats. That was balls of steel stuff right there.
Just to clarify, the US Merchant Marine does act in times of war or national emergency as a transportation arm for the DoD. The only group of merchant mariners that are granted "Veteran" status are those that served in WW II from Dec. 7, 1941 to Aug. 15, 1945. A link to some info regarding the ruling in determining veteran status for "civilians".
https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF12242/3
As for the OP's concern whether his accepting discounts would be considered "Stolen Valor", absolutely not. The businesses offered discounts to first responders and since he is a first responder, no foul. Mentioning that you're a Merchant Marine officer is unnecessary and will most likely confuse most people into thinking that you're somehow connected with the military which obviously isn't the case. I spent forty one years in the merchant marine as an engineering officer. About half that time was spent on ships in direct support of military operations. From underway replenishments at sea for the Navy, hauling jet fuel for the Air Force, Preposition ships carrying armored vehicles for the Army, to being deployed with MALS-39 on a rotary wing repair ship in the Gulf during the opening months of OIF. I don't consider myself a veteran in any way. It was a job that I was proud to do as are thousands of civilians that do support work for our military services. When asked if i'm a veteran from retail businesses, I simply say "NO".
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