View Full Version : June 1 Brace Enforcement?
Curious what your best guess is concerning ENFORCEMENT of Brace rule is for Thursday.
I envision a heavy handed show of force to confirm “We’re not Fukking around”/you don’t mess with the Regime. Would make the next order of “turn in ALL your firearms” that much easier for them.
Certainly hope that’s wildly inaccurate.
Nothing is going to happen. IF you do something stupid with a braced gun, expect to be made an example of. Unless you're a career criminal, then it's just the revolving door of Justice for you.
Did they kick in doors looking for bump stocks? No they did not. Don't live in fear.
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BoringGuy45
05-31-23, 09:47
I highly doubt it. They don’t have the resources to do it. They’re going to rely on compliance.
IF I had a brace or 2 supposedly FPC has me covered.
I hope GOA also gets a tro soon.
And Fatass commie Prickster gets slapped down by the courts so I won't have to haul all my semi autos to my place in florida to keep from having to register them with the state of IL.
All these people buying braces because the atf said they were ok, and ok to shoulder. Then no you're an immediate felon.
At nearly the same time liberal states pass new gun laws outlawing ar15's, magazines, and semi autos.
It almost looks like a timed concerted effort. SCOTUS needs to get a handle on this sooner rather than later.
They simply don't have the manpower to even remotely try to enforce this. It's all about scaring law abiding gun owners into compliance, and then possibly throwing the book at someone who messes up with one, but any large scale enforcement? No way.
Their stupid unconstitutional brace rule will be eventually overturned. It's just a waiting game at this point.
We need mass, organized jury nullification.
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Nothing is going to happen. IF you do something stupid with a braced gun, expect to be made an example of. Unless you're a career criminal, then it's just the revolving door of Justice for you.
Did they kick in doors looking for bump stocks? No they did not. Don't live in fear.
I agree.
Active Fed enforcement? Nothing...
They're gonna let local LEOs scoop people up from the range or at traffic stops.
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-31-23, 13:18
Active Fed enforcement? Nothing...
They're gonna let local LEOs scoop people up from the range or at traffic stops.
I thought local cops couldn’t enforce federal law, like immigration laws…
They will go after manufacturers, distributors and some gun shops and throw the book at them.
For individuals they offer plea deals to felon charges with no jail time. So no guns ever again…. Which is what I think the whole goal is…
Probably start with internet marketing gun channels…
Otherwise honest and law abiding gun owners in NY, CA and MA are probably at great risk.
Everyone else will be on a "got pulled over for this but they found that" basis.
I thought local cops couldn’t enforce federal law, like immigration laws…
They will go after manufacturers, distributors and some gun shops and throw the book at them.
For individuals they offer plea deals to felon charges with no jail time. So no guns ever again…. Which is what I think the whole goal is…
Probably start with internet marketing gun channels…
Quite a few MO cops got their panties in a wad when MO tried to interfere with them getting to enforce federal anti 2a laws.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10212688/
Sidneyious
05-31-23, 18:06
Otherwise honest and law abiding gun owners in NY, CA and MA are probably at great risk.
Everyone else will be on a "got pulled over for this but they found that" basis.Law abiding just means you comply with the next new law.
If they subpoena manufacturers for sales records of pistol weapons it could get interesting.
If they subpoena manufacturers for sales records of pistol weapons it could get interesting.Not gonna happen
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Law abiding just means you comply with the next new law.
You have an amazing talent for ignoring key words and phrases like "otherwise" and then starting a completely new debate that nobody was interested in.
If they subpoena manufacturers for sales records of pistol weapons it could get interesting.
Not gonna happen
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They may already have that info since handguns are Pittman Robertson Act taxed at 10% of msrp for handguns and 11% on long guns. I just don't know how detailed that payment is.
Active Fed enforcement? Nothing...
They're gonna let local LEOs scoop people up from the range or at traffic stops.
That's how California does it.
They may already have that info since handguns are Pittman Robertson Act taxed at 10% of msrp for handguns and 11% on long guns. I just don't know how detailed that payment is.
Not that detailed. It's paid at the manufacturer/wholesale level. They theoretically could have serial numbers of firearms, but to trace them down to the final purchaser would require sifting through the books of 60,000 FFL's.
That's how California does it.
Or Fudds rat you out after seeing you at the range. That's how my cousin got hung up with a non-compliant semi-auto that he though was good to go.
Not that detailed. It's paid at the manufacturer/wholesale level. They theoretically could have serial numbers of firearms, but to trace them down to the final purchaser would require sifting through the books of 60,000 FFL's.
I knew the manufacturer would only have info on where they shipped it(or warranty related), but wasn't sure if the tax is gets paid as "5 pistols @ $500 msrp each, here's $250" or "ABC00001 $50, ABC00002 $50, and so on".
ChattanoogaPhil
06-02-23, 10:38
I agree with others that any enforcement would most likely be incidental. That said, if for whatever reason the Feds wanted to conduct an intimidation exercise they could scan their own database of defunct FFL logbooks during the past few years for caliber 5.56, type pistol, and of course the buyer's name. Knock on a few doors... Net forums go insane... mission accomplished. I wouldn't worry too much about it.
Active Fed enforcement? Nothing...
They're gonna let local LEOs scoop people up from the range or at traffic stops.
When did local LEO start enforcing Federal laws? Please let me know, maybe I've been doing things wrong during my careers....
On a traffic stop on a wet Washington night I walked up to a car, the windows were all fogged over.
It was a Ford Pinto.
A yelled command broke the night, freeze mother ****er. I am drawing and backing away from the Pinto. The other officer backs away also and we call in more guns.
It seems I was waking into a big problem involving a SBS, I don't remember the length but it was less than 10 inched barrel.
So we arrested everyone.
I reached out to ATF to inform them of said SBS, they said never mind we don't want it.
I do not recall ATF ever filing on any local cases we had.
When did local LEO start enforcing Federal laws? Please let me know, maybe I've been doing things wrong during my careers....
Missouri Sheriffs’ Association Working to Kill 2nd Amendment Preservation Act | Tenth Amendment Center
https://tenthamendmentcenter.com/2021/03/29/missouri-sheriffs-association-working-to-kill-2nd-amendment-preservation-act/
"But the Missouri Sheriffs’ Association (MSA) has aggressively lobbied state senators to oppose HB85, claiming that banning them from enforcing current federal gun control – and anything new from the Biden administration – will stop them from “catching criminals.” This is a typical law enforcement scare-tactic. In reality, these law enforcement lobby groups are really only concerned with preserving their “federal partnerships” and all of the federal grant money, asset forfeiture money, and power that go along with them."
https://fox8.com/news/mother-files-harassment-complaint-against-lorain-police/
"The story began to unfold on Feb. 15, after a 16-year-old boy, his cousin and a friend crossed West 27th Street in Lorain and walked up to the boy’s house. Video from the family’s surveillance camera shows an unmarked police car pull up, and a Lorain police officer and a Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms agent jump out and try to speak with the boys. By then, the teens are walking into the home."
Louisville drug task force halted amid scandal | whas11.com
https://www.whas11.com/article/news/louisville-drug-task-force-halted-amid-scandal/417-416513278
"LMPD pulled the task force — which included federal agents with Homeland Security Investigations — out of the shipping giant's Worldport air hub in September and reassigned LMPD detectives to other narcotics operations, a Courier-Journal investigation has found."
I do not recall ATF ever filing on any local cases we had.
They SEEM to be more interested in transaction activity. Like if you're a goober at a gunshow, their licking their chops. If you're an actual criminal... meh.
Or Fudds rat you out after seeing you at the range. That's how my cousin got hung up with a non-compliant semi-auto that he though was good to go.
Exactly.
When did local LEO start enforcing Federal laws? Please let me know, maybe I've been doing things wrong during my careers....
So lemme ask you a question, then...Does your state's criminal code allow for possession of an unregistered NFA firearm? 'Cause in NM, that's a felony per state law. It was in CO as well. In fact, I'd wager it's a felony in pretty much every state.
So no, the Local Bois don't need to enforce federal law. They can scoop people up on state charges then just call the local Fed Boi field office. Even if the Fed Bois elect to not do anything, Joe Gunowner still loses. He's now subject to the whims of the criminal "justice" system and he'll likely never see that rifle...oops, I mean braced pistol *wink* *wink*...ever again.
But what about injunctions/regulatory rule making authority/it's not really an sbr/muh constitution...Yeah, the courts will decide all that in due time. Joe Gunowner can sit in county in the meanwhile.
And yeah...I'm sure neither you nor any of the other cops you know would do any of this. There are still plenty of Local Bois out there who would cheerfully ruin someone's life over this petty bullshit. Not to mention all the "we're our own worst enemy" FUDDs policing the ranges of the world.
This shit is going to enforce itself...No active Fed Boi effort required.
I've had NFA violations pop up 3 times in my career that I can remember. 2 were murders involving a short barrel shotgun and 1 was a drug dealer found with a stolen Q Honey Badger SBR. Went to court on both murder cases and the NFA was never brought up. Drug dealer got prosecuted for posession of a stolen gun and the dealing charges
titsonritz
06-03-23, 18:07
250K out of 10 to 40 million... :sarcastic:
https://thereload.com/atf-says-a-quarter-million-guns-registered-under-pistol-brace-rule/
They SEEM to be more interested in transaction activity. Like if you're a goober at a gunshow, their licking their chops. If you're an actual criminal... meh.
Yes they prefer anything that is an operation that they can plan and take credit for.
So the numbers are in 255,162 got down on their knees to the government and submitted paperwork on their pistol braces.
That means according to the Congressional numbers 30 to 40 million Americans said F you to the government.
I can not tell you how happy this makes me.
Maybe if the Republicans don't stand and fight we the American people will. When you look at only 0.06% bending knee, and you look at the billions Bud and Target are losing we may have had enough.
Now I will plead with the American patriots that believe in the Constitution.
Remember who we are.
We are one of the few people that have fought a Revolution and not had massive blood loss as a result. France, Russia, China, Cuba, Wiemar Republic of Germany when the Nazis took over all got very bloody. They turned into an orgy of murder.
If G-D forbid things get violent, remember our history and turn off the violence as quickly as possible.
I want to be clear I am NOT calling for violence. I am a student of history , and been in the center of more than one civil war, coup, or revolution in my life. Based on this I am just wanting to put something out there, that we are Americans and we must act like it.
Boycott brands, put pressure on Congress and other leaders, lets get our country back through peaceful means. Of course keep non compliance against stupid laws at the rate of 99.04%
ChattanoogaPhil
06-04-23, 08:15
Your assumptions regarding compliance are wanting. Simply removing the brace from the pistol = compliance.
That hundreds of thousands of pistol owners took the opportunity to replace an inferior item and replace it with an actual buttstock via free SBR tax stamp should be characterized as "got down on their knees" is silly.
The reality of the matter is that most all gun owners are law-biding. Heck, anyone running around with a brace on their firearm instead of a buttstock for the past few years are poster children for "compliance".
Your assumptions regarding compliance are wanting. Simply removing the brace from the pistol = compliance.
That hundreds of thousands of pistol owners took the opportunity to replace an inferior item and replace it with an actual buttstock via free SBR tax stamp should be characterized as "got down on their knees" is silly.
Non-compliance will generally be like bumpstocks.... remain hidden under the bed until the owner dies or the law is overturned, whichever comes first.
They capitulated to and registered themselves with the ATF and recognized and accepted the false authority of this BS alphabet soup agency to dictate their rights and what items they can and can’t own by fiat.
Definitely on knees making the “O” face and lubing up the rear end for the ATF to have an easier time with them.
Averageman
06-04-23, 08:23
A couple of year ago I began making it a point to back my truck in to the garage and load it out of sight.
I belong to a private range that is locked and gated from public use and private bays to shoot in are available.
I started doing this to keep my security, now I just want to keep out prying eyes.
I see this as a test run for compliance for the next ban. They want you to be afraid your neighbors will tell on you.
Your assumptions regarding compliance are wanting. Simply removing the brace from the pistol = compliance.
That hundreds of thousands of pistol owners took the opportunity to replace an inferior item and replace it with an actual buttstock via free SBR tax stamp should be characterized as "got down on their knees" is silly.
The reality of the matter is that most all gun owners are law-biding. Heck, anyone running around with a brace on their firearm instead of a buttstock for the past few years are poster children for "compliance".
I have not removed my braces and I am not planning on it.
I disagree about people with braces V buttstocks. I own SBR's, to travel is easier with a brace pistol end of story.
ChattanoogaPhil
06-04-23, 11:47
I have not removed my braces and I am not planning on it.
I disagree about people with braces V buttstocks. I own SBR's, to travel is easier with a brace pistol end of story.
Surely you're not suggesting that you got down on your knees to the government and submitted paperwork, are you?
Ease of lawful travel across state lines with a pistol vs SBR is certainly worthy, I agree.
They capitulated to and registered themselves with the ATF and recognized and accepted the false authority of this BS alphabet soup agency to dictate their rights and what items they can and can’t own by fiat.
The ATF still has the power to put you in prison.... or did I miss the memo?
Your assumptions regarding compliance are wanting. Simply removing the brace from the pistol = compliance.
That hundreds of thousands of pistol owners took the opportunity to replace an inferior item and replace it with an actual buttstock via free SBR tax stamp should be characterized as "got down on their knees" is silly.
The reality of the matter is that most all gun owners are law-biding. Heck, anyone running around with a brace on their firearm instead of a buttstock for the past few years are poster children for "compliance".
I see it as, yet again, the "compromise" is all done in the same direction it's always been where gun rights are concerned. The government invents some nonsense rule to further restrict the 2nd Amendment, violating the "...shall not be infringed" part each and every time, and people either bow to it or they don't. On a purely common sense level, none of these rules/laws/interpretations/suggestions should be Constitutionally valid and some people work on that principle. Each time gun owners capitulate, no matter how insignificant the new infringement may seem, it's a loss.
I would tend to believe that the ATF doesn't see the mass non-compliance as a terrible thing. In their eyes, they just "found" 255,162 new "members" of their registry system. And that is most certainly, because you did it voluntarily when so many are not, being subservient and NOT helping the case for demanding that government agencies abide by the Constitution, even the parts they don't like.
Surely you're not suggesting that you got down on your knees to the government and submitted paperwork, are you?
Ease of lawful travel across state lines with a pistol vs SBR is certainly worthy, I agree.
I didn't my company did. If that makes a difference.
My company has done more governments paperwork than you can imagine. Which is why we hare a great lawyer on payroll.
What people are saying about atf doesn’t prosecute nfa cases… this is now a completely weaponized atf with the only goal as to rid Americans of arms.
Don’t think for one second, that if you get busted with a brace on that pistol and the locals send it up the food chain to the feds, that it won’t get persecuted. Especially if you’re a white middle aged conservative male, you’re going to be in fed custody.
Are they going to do no knocks in the middle of the night? I don’t think so. But they’ll pounce on any opportunity to make publicity with this bs.
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IMHO, anyone that trusts today’s BATF, DOJ, FBI, etc. is a GD naive sucker and fool. Your decision, but if this Country continues under mostly Democrat rule, I think you will be getting a very rude awakening at some point in the future.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-04-23, 14:35
Found with a braced pistol. As long as you dont be an a hole to them, I bet that they get you to plead to a felony and there go your gun rights. I almost think that is has been their plan. You see 20 million gun owners while the ATF sees 20 million people that they can take gun rights away.
Bump stocks and Braces were always some kind of quantum goofiness that was going to blink out of existence at some point. And I don’t get the arguement that registering is some kind of betryal. Unless you are running around with unregistered autosears and SBRs now, STFU. We are all ‘the list’ somewhere. Either for an SBR, suppressor, NRA memembership, CCW permit, the scanned 4473s, credit card purchases and last but not least- participation in this forum.
And I have a factory SP5 SBR that I didn’t have to carve up to have as an SBR. When was the last time that HK sold an MP5 SBR to Civies???
And “What if the ATF reneges?”. They can do that anytime they want for pretty much any reason (at least for awhile). I guess I’d just SBR it and pay the $200 for a ‘real’ SBR.
Maybe for the people that live in states with no restrictions at all this one thing rubs harder. Try living in a ‘-purple’ state that is going full commie red faster than they can poll. We almost got a Washington State like AWB this year, will probably get one within a couple. So roll while you can, until its time not to.
You don't have to agree that it's "some kind of betrayal," but that is how many people do feel each time a "compromise" is struck that takes something else away from those who have committed no crime while others just go along. Everyone is in a different situation, can be more or less damaging to risk non-compliance if kids dependent or grown, job skills that are transferable if current company balks, financial situation, age, station in life, married or single. But for those who can, like refusing to get vaccinated despite the risk of losing a career, it shows some conviction to stand by what you believe, not just punching it into a keyboard for mostly like-minded individuals to read.
titsonritz
06-04-23, 15:05
They capitulated to and registered themselves with the ATF and recognized and accepted the false authority of this BS alphabet soup agency to dictate their rights and what items they can and can’t own by fiat.
Definitely on knees making the “O” face and lubing up the rear end for the ATF to have an easier time with them.
I'm guessing about 50% of that 0.6% were saying "**** yes, I'll take another stamp for free, thanks scumbags for saving two bills on something I was going to do anyway." And I blame one bit. The 99.4% said lick my bag.
titsonritz
06-04-23, 15:08
In their eyes, they just "found" 255,162 new "members" of their registry system. And that is most certainly, because you did it voluntarily when so many are not, being subservient and NOT helping the case for demanding that government agencies abide by the Constitution, even the parts they don't like.
As I said, how many of "new member" were already "members"?
titsonritz
06-04-23, 15:11
IMHO, anyone that trusts today’s BATF, DOJ, FBI, etc. is a GD naive sucker and fool. Your decision, but if this Country continues under mostly Democrat rule, I think you will be getting a very rude awakening at some point in the future.
That is a two way street, these ****s are not going to get the Utopia they think.
I registered two of my guns. I viewed it as 2 free stamps for guns I was already going to Form 1. I already have NFA items and Im .gov issued a suppressed SBR. The ATF already knows who I am. If you're talking shit and own pistol braces or semi auto 16 inch guns, you're just a keyboard chump.
The 99.4% said lick my bag.
Probably more like this: Of the 99.4%, 40% percent of those didn't even know the rules changed, 57% reconfigured their pistols to be in compliance, and 3% said "lick my bag". 3%, lol...See what I did there? ;-)
Had a guy come in the other day and say "Hey, I just heard braces need some kind of paperwork now? How do I do that?" We told him he was too late and he shrugged and said "Oh well...I can just take it off, right?"
I registered two of my guns. I viewed it as 2 free stamps for guns I was already going to Form 1. I already have NFA items and Im .gov issued a suppressed SBR. The ATF already knows who I am. If you're talking shit and own pistol braces or semi auto 16 inch guns, you're just a keyboard chump.
Should be interesting to see what happens to all the "free" registrations once this is stopped by the courts. The fact that none of the so called approvals have a stamp attached, and also that all the approvals are "approved with conditions," with the conditions being contingent on ATF's final rule is very telling. I'd bet dollars to donuts that when this is stopped, and it certainly seems that this will be the case, all those "free" approvals will be null.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-04-23, 16:07
As I said, how many of "new member" were already "members"?
On the other side, how many new members will be like, might as well get a suppressor now…. At least one…
Should be interesting to see what happens to all the "free" registrations once this is stopped by the courts. The fact that none of the so called approvals have a stamp attached, and also that all the approvals are "approved with conditions," with the conditions being contingent on ATF's final rule is very telling. I'd bet dollars to donuts that when this is stopped, and it certainly seems that this will be the case, all those "free" approvals will be null.
The stamp is only there to show you paid the 200 dollar tax. My work gun doesnt have a stamp for the gun or the suppressor. The forms (5?) are there, but no stamp.
The conditions only had to do with the tax waiver. It's still an approved form 1.
I also just noted that the 255k number is the number of applications, not the number of people. I did two guns. I know someone that did 5.
The stamp is only there to show you paid the 200 dollar tax. My work gun doesnt have a stamp for the gun or the suppressor. The forms (5?) are there, but no stamp.
The conditions only had to do with the tax waiver. It's still an approved form 1.That's cool. Hopefully it's not revocable.
The 99.4% said lick my bag.
That was the only 'correct' answer for those bastages.
Lick my bag after I get done mowing the grass sort of stuff...
As I said, how many of "new member" were already "members"?
Here… and after my 6 were approved, I submitted a paid Form 1 for my SBS. Was originally a braced TAC-14, and if I could have saved $200 and not engrave it… I would have without hesitation.
That is 6 SBRs, one pending SBS, three suppressors and a FFL. Add in Federal L/E… I’m well on the list. And I know people who are a lot higher on said list than myself.
The stamp is only there to show you paid the 200 dollar tax. My work gun doesnt have a stamp for the gun or the suppressor. The forms (5?) are there, but no stamp.
The conditions only had to do with the tax waiver. It's still an approved form 1.
People first started to argue that the approval was “pending the rule.” No, “pursuant” means in accordance with. Rule was published, and approvals were based off it. Now, if it does get overturned… I doubt ATF will look to cancel those approvals. Why would they? Wouldn’t they rather them be on the registry?
From what I looked into, this process was identical to how those “evil” shotguns (Street Sweeper and alike) were reclassified as DD in the 1990s (just minus the eForms part). I’ve yet to see first hand account on it, but would bet money that those Form 1s… and yes, they were Form 1s… didn’t have a stamp on them upon approval.
I also just noted that the 255k number is the number of applications, not the number of people. I did two guns. I know someone that did 5.
Six here…
All 6 were going to be SBRed… as time/money allowed. No tax, it allowed me to set money aside for stocks. My PTR 9CT has an original German A3 stock… so might have just broke even.
For the brace subject, Clint Smith called it 2.5 years ago… starts at 10:40ish. Some might get pissed, but it really is how most people look onto it… especially non-gun people, who will be those that might have to decide on this in court.
https://youtu.be/pLBCzry8ZjA
I played the game for a few years (2019 was when I moved to ME and built my first AR pistol, but had the braced TAC-14 for years prior)… just like everyone else. I did like the pistol for storage in a vehicle with carry permit. But 7.62x39mm shoots much better from a stock than a brace.
Whether ATF approved the brace or not, I think the last time I saw a brace used as intended was in the GunThots YouTube video on the 9CT when they sarcastically showed the brace being used for a few seconds. Might have been Christmas of last year, just before the brace ruling.
Only thing I think gives the brace argument a chance in hell for winning is that ATF isn’t the legislative branch; it’s the executive branch. But I think arguing that braced pistols/SBRs are common use and that it really doesn’t make a huge difference in crime for having those kinds of firearms on the NFA… might be the better route. Remember, SBR/SBS are restricted because handguns were originally on the NFA, and they didn’t want people making a “handgun” out of a long gun. Handguns get pulled because of the potential backlash… but SBR/SBS were still restricted.
It really does not matter what Clint Smith or anyone else thinks of braces. The ATF waffled on the subject for years and allowed MILLIONS of braced pistols to be sold before reversing themselves and declaring a braced pistol is actually an SBR.
There is no precedent of this magnitude regarding NFA and it is a precursor to the ATF unilaterally deciding semi-automatic forearms are actually NFA items.
Andy
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-05-23, 00:57
The ATF just mainstreamed owning NFA items….
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