View Full Version : IRS raids gun store takes 4473's
Gotta give those 87,000 new jack booted thugs something to do.
Matt Rosendale
@RepRosendale
I met with Tom Vanhoose this morning after 20 armed IRS agents raided his store in Great Falls earlier this week.
Tom informed me that these agents confiscated all the 4473 forms, none of which contain any financial information; instead, the IRS now has access to these forms with sensitive personal details of every customer who purchased a firearm from Highwood Creek Outfitters.
https://www.krtv.com/news/great-falls-news/great-falls-gun-shop-re-opens-after-a-visit-from-federal-agents
Great Falls gun shop re-opens after a visit from federal agents
GREAT FALLS — A Great Falls gun shop owner says he was targeted by federal agents Wednesday. In fact, he claims that he's been in the crosshairs of the government for a couple of years now.
“At 7:30, I came in and they pulled in behind me with 20 heavily armed agents,” said Tom Van Hoose, the owner of Highwood Creek Outfitters.
Maybe it's time for FFLs to have some unexpected "water damage" in their storage areas.
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This disturbs me...I can't find a legal reason to seize just the 4473s unless there is some type of wrongful paperwork game by the FFL
john armond
06-17-23, 09:13
.....
They don't need it, they don't need anything on it, but they're going to take it so they can hand it over to the ATF to build their registry.
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My tin foil theory about the 87,000 new IRS agents has always been that they are a massive manpower pool for nefarious purposes. Sure some will be used for tax purposes but with that many you can arm and train up a group to farm out to other agencies. So ATF wants to collect 4473's but legally can't, no problem call up IRS "go get these for us", unless States step up and start pushing back expect a lot more of this.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-17-23, 09:32
To do this, the IRS would have to have a warrant still correct? It be interesting to know what that said. Did it specifically mention the 44,73’s, or did it say something along the lines of paperwork related to some kind of criminal investigation.
The laws of the land no longer apply equally, if you're just figuring this out you are way behind the power curve. The constitution, the government, the supreme Court none of them are going to step up and protect you if the government wants to bend you over.
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To do this, the IRS would have to have a warrant still correct? It be interesting to know what that said. Did it specifically mention the 44,73’s, or did it say something along the lines of paperwork related to some kind of criminal investigation.
Secret warrant to protect confidential informant. Or, peons have no business questioning the government.
Andy
To do this, the IRS would have to have a warrant still correct?
In theory vs. in practice.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/instituteforjustice/2022/10/11/the-warrant-said-it-did-not-authorize-a-criminal-search-of-security-deposit-boxes-the-fbi-did-it-anyway/
ChattanoogaPhil
06-17-23, 11:57
To do this, the IRS would have to have a warrant still correct? It be interesting to know what that said. Did it specifically mention the 44,73’s, or did it say something along the lines of paperwork related to some kind of criminal investigation.
Tom Van Hoose has owned Highwood Creed Outfitters in Great Falls, Montana for 13 years. As he pulled into work Wednesday morning, twenty heavily armed Internal Revenue Service Criminal Investigation Division agents swarmed his store. He tells TTAG that the IRS agents, in full battle rattle, had been mustered from as far away as Denver and Idaho to serve a warrant for his financial records.
More here: https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/irs-confiscates-tens-of-thousands-of-4473-forms-from-great-falls-mt-gun-dealer/
So, ATF technically can have access to those 4473s extremely easily.
The way info like that is shared in the Federal government, if one agency has something that another agency wants… as long as they are in the same Department (Homeland Security, Treasury, etc), there is no paperwork needed to log the sharing. For it to go to an agency in another Department, the agency that sourced the info has to approve it first.
The laws of the land no longer apply equally
We are quoting laws to men with swords at this point.
Your fellow citizens just following orders....just like the gestapo
titsonritz
06-17-23, 16:06
I assume they had a warrant specifying what they were after.
I assume they had a warrant specifying what they were after.
4473s were not listed, they took them anyway.
Rifleman_04
06-17-23, 17:43
Sheriff’s/local LE will need to step up in a big way.
Sure hope as this continues to happen some IRS/ATF end up in the ground.
Sheriff’s/local LE will need to step up in a big way.
It's already done, ATF has copies. If the Sheriff steps up IRS will just return 4473s and that will be the end of it, but ATF already has copies.
Sure hope as this continues to happen some IRS/ATF end up in the ground.
The IRS will be one of the last government agencies to go away. It's pretty much on the "never gonna happen" list.
I'm not siding with this B.S. one bit, but my 4473's do show how many firearms I've either transferred or sold.(both of which I make money on) If an auditor (IRS or otherwise) wanted to balance the books in relation to how many guns they claimed to have sold vs. how many they actually sold, the 4473's would be a good way to get to the bottom of it. If you're an idiot and booked in 100 DDM4V7's and sold 50 of them for cash and skipped putting them on the financial side of the books, but filled out the 4473's, you could get strung out pretty easily by the IRS. All it takes is one disgruntled employee to drop a dime on you and the IRS is knocking on the door.
titsonritz
06-18-23, 01:18
4473s were not listed, they took them anyway.
That's not good.
We are quoting laws to men with swords at this point.
I was actually thinking of that quote the other day in regards to the pistol brace injunctions. In The Storm Before the Storm, Mike Duncan compared the then current 2017 political landscape to that of the late Roman Republic. It's not a perfect comparison, but close enough. Too bad we plebeians don't have any champions willing to actually fight back yet.
Diamondback
06-18-23, 08:30
You knew this was coming when they advertised job openings for new Einsatzgruppen noting "minimum wage pay but hey, you get to kill Deplorables and the Regime will protect you when you do."
TheAlsatian
06-18-23, 11:10
I served on several Federal drug task forces in Montana in 2000-2001. Not counting Border Patrol Agents, I bet there weren't 20 Federal Agents in the whole state. I know because I sat in a room with all of them. And that is counting Customs, FBI, ATF, even the Forest Service and Park Service special agents (yes they have them). You will never know what is behind this until you see the probable cause statement.
I served on several Federal drug task forces in Montana in 2000-2001. Not counting Border Patrol Agents, I bet there weren't 20 Federal Agents in the whole state. I know because I sat in a room with all of them. And that is counting Customs, FBI, ATF, even the Forest Service and Park Service special agents (yes they have them). You will never know what is behind this until you see the probable cause statement.
When and where do you think the probable cause statement will be available?
TheAlsatian
06-18-23, 11:26
When and where do you think the probable cause statement will be available?
His attorney can get it and it should be filed with the federal court. There is a federal court documents system that shows all the case information but you have to sign up. You would have to know who the defendent is specifically.
https://pcl.uscourts.gov/pcl/index.jsf
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-18-23, 19:48
Imagine if trumps FBI had gone into a abortion clinic and taken down copies of all of the patient records…
Averageman
06-18-23, 21:34
Imagine if trumps FBI had gone into a abortion clinic and taken down copies of all of the patient records…
Good Point.
Or a Pharmacy to see who was taking HIV drugs, or openly posting the names and photographs of Child Molesters and Rapists in your local paper.
I'm not ashamed of who I voted for, so why don't we print that too?
Sauce for the Goose is sauce for the gander.
Democrats are so sure the pendulem wont swing the other way they have become drunk on their power. I think the fix is in for the next Election or they would act a bit differently.
Adrenaline_6
06-19-23, 07:43
The IRS will be one of the last government agencies to go away. It's pretty much on the "never gonna happen" list.
It would be nice if the constitutionality of an agency that can interpret and enforce laws were brought to the Supreme Court. Then things would have to get done because no way that stands. ATF, IRS, OSHA, etc - all gone. Then it would be the way it should be. Things not specified would be left to the States.
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