View Full Version : Missing mini sub at Titanic site
It's supposed to float to the top on its own in an emergency, so I thinking some sort of explosive decompression and they're all dead. I have thought it would have some sort of emergency sonar location beacon also:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKowKRvvtSA
Pacific5th
06-20-23, 07:52
Oh they’re dead all right. Even if by chance there still alive right now by the time they get something there that can rescue them it will be to late.
For only $250k you can go visit the historic site of the Titanic. You can also join the historic wreckage for the price of COST INCLUDED.
Yup, not gonna end well. They have 7 different ways to get to the surface, some are automatic if the power cuts out and other safety measures. That none of them deployed, they're done for:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyt7H2tF76w
For only $250k you can go visit the historic site of the Titanic. You can also join the historic wreckage for the price of COST INCLUDED.
LOL. That's awesome.
SomeOtherGuy
06-20-23, 08:39
Oh sure, some rich folk die while doing something crazy dangerous without any benefit and it's global news coverage, but Uncle Jed dies doing something equally dangerous that cost his entire bonus, and where's the news coverage for that?
Yup, not gonna end well. They have 7 different ways to get to the surface, some are automatic if the power cuts out and other safety measures. That none of them deployed, they're done for:
The amazing wonder submersible - seven different fail-safes that all failed! (You won't believe #5!)
----- /sarc ------
On a kinder note, it's a tragedy for the families of those missing, but it also seems equivalent to getting killed during some "extreme sport" or "war tourism."
On a kinder note, it's a tragedy for the families of those missing, but it also seems equivalent to getting killed during some "extreme sport" or "war tourism."
Not for nothing, I won't be surprised to see this with 'space tourism,' either. There are reasons those environments--12,000 feet deep or 130 miles high--have had so few visitors.
What could possibly go wrong?
Fukking idiots. That’d be a LOUSY way to go.
American MEDIOCRITY strikes yet Again. Anyone retarded enough to take this risk deserves it!
Averageman
06-20-23, 10:39
My Dad used to do underwater welding in the gulf for platforms, I think he did it for a year before he had to stop for his health.
They would go down in a Bathosphere for long stretches. He said it was great money but scarey as hell, he told me about a hammerhead that kept circling him one day, he said it look as big as a Bus from his point of view.
I couldn't do it, my beads look like birdshit on dry ground.
Not for nothing, I won't be surprised to see this with 'space tourism,' either. There are reasons those environments--12,000 feet deep or 130 miles high--have had so few visitors.
Both we will see more of no doubt. I'd be happy as chit to be a space tourist if that kinda $ was no big deal to me, no interest in being in a tiny sub with one tiny window to see boring ship at 13k ft down. No idea why the fascination with that ship.
The unsinkable mini sub meets the unsinkable ship.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-20-23, 13:03
It's supposed to float to the top on its own in an emergency, so I thinking some sort of explosive decompression and they're all dead. I have thought it would have some sort of emergency sonar location beacon also:
More like rapid implosive compression….
That they don’t even have a ping from it is weird…. You’d think that it would have some kind of dead man or other kind of self deploying signaling system…
How far could the thing get? Wouldn’t you follow it on active sonar?
Someone, somewhere must have heard something, if it imploded.
Will anyone admit to listening, or having that technology?
I recall the Scorpion was heard on a passive array at the time it went missing.
Here's a great idea...send the sub down with a camera and enjoy some pics of the Titanic. Why the hell anyone would want to go for a ride in that coffin to look at the wreckage with their own eyes is beyond me
If you are rich enough it seems possible to run out of ways to waste your money
Any chance we could all chip in and book one of these Titanic trips for George and Alex Soros? Asking for a friend...
I'll be the one to say it.
It was aliens.
StainlessSteelRat
06-20-23, 13:53
Here's a great idea...send the sub down with a camera and enjoy some pics of the Titanic. Why the hell anyone would want to go for a ride in that coffin to look at the wreckage with their own eyes is beyond me
If you are rich enough it seems possible to run out of ways to waste your money
I could think of a hell of a lot better ways to blow 250k. You could take a killer cruise on the QM 2 or Seabourne with that. Or, any number of better things than a dodgy ride in a steel coffin down to 12000 feet to look at a bigger steel coffin.
https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/attachments/7pziqk-jpg.8166482/
SilverBullet432
06-20-23, 15:16
American MEDIOCRITY strikes yet Again. Anyone retarded enough to take this risk deserves it!
The Triton 36000/2 built by Triton Submarines is an American made sub, rated to full ocean depth.
I'll be the one to say it.
It was aliens.
Anyone speculate Qthulu, yet?
IMHO, if you are a millionaire and pay a crapload of money to play tourist staring at a rusty old boat on the bottom of the sea, you are on your own if things don't go as planned.
Andy
StainlessSteelRat
06-20-23, 15:54
Read an article saying even if they are floating on the surface after safety buoyancy deployment, they'd be really hard to spot with all comms dead. Plus, they are bolted in from the outside...... no, thanks.
ChattanoogaPhil
06-20-23, 16:40
Five people in a tube the size of a minivan with no seats, no toilet, and no windows other than a small nose porthole? How many hours was this originally scheduled to be underwater? They couldn't pay me enough.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-20-23, 17:26
Five people in a tube the size of a minivan with no seats, no toilet, and no windows other than a small nose porthole? How many hours was this originally scheduled to be underwater? They couldn't pay me enough.
Three hour tour…
Not for nothing, I won't be surprised to see this with 'space tourism,' either. There are reasons those environments--12,000 feet deep or 130 miles high--have had so few visitors.
Yeah, with lots of things you need to accept that you might not come back, but seems not everyone gets the memo. There are lots of things I'd like to do, but good reasons I've never tried them. I've weighed the "wish I could do that" benefit against the "this could easily happen" outcome and concluded that I get enough excitement paying my mortgage every month.
I'm thankfully past the point where I feel compelled to prove things to myself or others and I have too many responsibilities to engage in antics for the entertainment of others.
Unfortunate turn of events for the individuals involved and their families. As far as I am concerned, oh well, turn the page....
Not seeing which one adds up to the news.
https://tritonsubs.com/subs/
For some reason I thought sight seeing tours were supposed to be verboten.
Averageman
06-20-23, 19:38
Billionaire Father takes his Son down with him?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roO5_GkGAYY
My take away from all of that is, "Like a Needle in a Haystack." they are screwed and will likely never be found.
https://www.npr.org/2023/06/20/1183167120/titanic-submarine-hamish-harding
Among those paid passengers was British businessman Hamish Harding, according to a statement from Action Aviation, a company where Harding works as chairman.
Harding holds three Guinness World Records, including the longest duration (4 hours, 15 minutes) at a full ocean depth (2.88 miles) by a crewed vessel. He has also trekked to the South Pole, circumnavigated the Earth in less than 48 hours and visited space in Blue Origin's New Shepard rocket.
A fourth person on board is Paul-Henri Nargeolet, a French expert on the Titanic, his agent has confirmed to several outlets, including The New York Times. Nargeolet serves as director for RMS Titanic Inc., the U.S. company that owns the salvage rights to the Titanic site. The Times reports that Nargeolet has completed over 35 dives to the wreckage, including a previous Titan expedition.
Averageman
06-20-23, 21:10
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NvYEZYFQv8
Aparently you "Float" to the bottom without power, then power up to position the Sub toward the Titanic. They never powered up, if they have a loss of power, they are already dead.
You would no longer be able to scrub the CO2 out of the system.
Banging sounds picked up on sonar
“Crews searching for the Titan submersible heard banging sounds every 30 minutes Tuesday, according to an internal government memo update on the search.
Four hours later, after additional sonar devices were deployed, banging was still heard, the memo said. It was unclear when the banging was heard Tuesday or for how long, based on the memo.”
https://www.cnn.com/americas/live-news/titanic-submersible-missing-search-06-20-23/index.html
This is a good video on the submersible and the company Oceangate. The host is an SME on submarines and breaks down the design of the sub and it’s possible fate. He also quotes the CEO of Oceangate who stated he didn’t want to hire “50 year old white guys” to work on the sub and instead hired young, inexperienced college graduates.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4dka29FSZac
ChattanoogaPhil
06-21-23, 07:07
Fox interviewed a guy who had been on the sub and seemed to know a lot about it. Said that in the case of losing power there were backups for scrubbing C02 and multiple methods for getting back to the surface. He leaned toward a loss of pressure (catastrophic) or the sub getting snagged on something preventing it from surfacing.
Hopefully they had a good view of Titanic with their last breath(s).
Sonar has been picking up banging noises every 30 minutes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbxrheBmLN8
ChattanoogaPhil
06-21-23, 08:25
While locating the sub is possible in the next 24hrs (estimated oxygen supply remaining) it sounds like a successful rescue effort at depth is unlikely during the time remaining.
This is a good video on the submersible and the company Oceangate. The host is an SME on submarines and breaks down the design of the sub and it’s possible fate. He also quotes the CEO of Oceangate who stated he didn’t want to hire “50 year old white guys” to work on the sub and instead hired young, inexperienced college graduates.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4dka29FSZac
Those young, inexperienced college graduates maintain that submersible with hardware store and COTS stuff. Not exactly US Navy-level quality control.
The articles about this fukked up submersion stupidity citing previous failures is alarming. This operation is about as reliable as a Chrysler K car. Anyone who'd go on into this shitbag operation is out of their fukking mind.
One article says they cut communications so the retards on the craft couldn't tweet that they were lost for 5 hours.
The articles about this fukked up submersion stupidity citing previous failures is alarming. This operation is about as reliable as a Chrysler K car. Anyone who'd go on into this shitbag operation is out of their fukking mind.
One article says they cut communications so the retards on the craft couldn't tweet that they were lost for 5 hours.
99% of the time when such things happen, it's always traced back to human failures of one sort or another. Space Shuttle, most plane crashes, etc, etc. There's always a history that leaves one to conclude it was just a matter of time. Post (avoidable) tragedy, changes get made, but people always have to die first for anyone to wake the F up.
Put two humans together and they can F up anything.
According to this the porthole on the sub was only rated for 1300 meters, not the 4000 meters they were diving to.
https://newrepublic.com/post/173802/missing-titanic-sub-faced-lawsuit-depths-safely-travel-oceangate
According to this the porthole on the sub was only rated for 1300 meters, not the 4000 meters they were diving to.
https://newrepublic.com/post/173802/missing-titanic-sub-faced-lawsuit-depths-safely-travel-oceangate
That's significant, the PSI at 1,300m is about 1,900; 4,000 meters is about 5,800 PSI. That ain't a small difference.
If the above is correct, there's no hope for those people and that sub. It probably looks like shredded soda can right now and the human remains ... well .. I hate to imagine.
The question is why did the company even thought of diving past the sub's capability? That's a huge negligent suit coming.
StainlessSteelRat
06-21-23, 10:21
This is a good video on the submersible and the company Oceangate. The host is an SME on submarines and breaks down the design of the sub and it’s possible fate. He also quotes the CEO of Oceangate who stated he didn’t want to hire “50 year old white guys” to work on the sub and instead hired young, inexperienced college graduates.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4dka29FSZac
This pretty much explains it all. The thing was basically a carbon fiber tube with titanium ends glued (?!) onto it. Sounds like he didn't want to shell out the $$$ for a proper submersible.
This pretty much explains it all. The thing was basically a carbon fiber tube with titanium ends glued (?!) onto it. Sounds like he didn't want to shell out the $$$ for a proper submersible.
See my post #38. I listened to an interview yesterday, the way this thing was put together and maintained was pure sketch. My question is, is it 'certified' or regulated? I am no fat, at all, of government interference in business because, well, government, but I am curious if the .gov signed off on it (whatever government jurisdiction in which it was built or the company is based).
StainlessSteelRat
06-21-23, 10:52
IIRC, the disclaimer states that the thing hadn't been tested, certified, or anything else, by any sort of authority. Maybe they get away with that because they're using it in International waters? No idea.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-21-23, 11:55
Heck we visited the D day beaches and on Point Du Hoc I didn’t go in the bunker because it had one door for in and out. I told the tour guide I don’t do enclosed places with idiots I don’t know (or even do know). I try not to imagine the possible hells that they went through…
According to this the porthole on the sub was only rated for 1300 meters, not the 4000 meters they were diving to.
https://newrepublic.com/post/173802/missing-titanic-sub-faced-lawsuit-depths-safely-travel-oceangate
If that's true, wow, just wow. There was at least one highly experienced person there. I wonder if he was aware of that? We will never know as he's be crushed into oblivion no doubt. If true, that's gonna be one massive lawsuit and the end of that company. Perhaps even criminal charges for the owner.
He was on that sub. It also appears it's been down to the ship before and survived fine. It may of course been the case of the repeated stress beyond its design, it finally failed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyt7H2tF76w
They need to find the location of the sub so they can offer tours of that shit too! It's good business!
This will turn into the bus from Alaska, that just kept getting people killed, so the Govt finally airlifted it out.
SomeOtherGuy
06-21-23, 13:41
This will turn into the bus from Alaska, that just kept getting people killed, so the Govt finally airlifted it out.
If the missing sub isn't already floating on the surface, it's not likely to be found again for the rest of humanity's existence.
Read this from some German who went on this shitbucket years ago. This operation makes the NASA space shuttles look like solid performers!
It was a suicide mission back then!” exclaimed the Bavarian entrepreneur, recalling his own journey into the abyss. “The first submarine didn’t work, then a diveat 1,600 meters had to be abandoned.”
Loibl explained that they ended up launching five hours late due to electrical issues — which he suspects is to blame for the Titan crews’ current predicament.
Not only that but right before the voyage, the bracket of the stabilization tube — which balances the sub — tore and had to be “reattached with zip ties,” he said.
Averageman
06-21-23, 15:10
outside of a mircle I do believe it's over for them.
outside of a mircle I do believe it's over for them.
I strongly suspect it was over for them when they lost contact when the hull or what ever failed. Seems to me the only thing that explains all back up systems to return the surface failing, all contact ending etc.
I strongly suspect it was over for them when they lost contact when the hull or what ever failed. Seems to me the only thing that explains all back up systems to return the surface failing, all contact ending etc.
Sounds like it never powered up.
Several years ago I was looking to do something similar, but waaaaaaay cheaper and simpler. After finding out my life insurance policy would not pay out if I died doing something stupid my wife put her foot down and said no.
Implosion, as harsh as it sounds, would probably be the best outcome. Suffocating at the bottom of the ocean would be a terrible way to go.
Even worse, though, is if they somehow surfaced and are simply not found. From what I read it’s sealed from the outside. Can you imagine surfacing and looking out the window to the outside world only to suffocate because you can’t open the hatch? Really, really feel for these guys and hope it ends well, but that’s unlikely.
I strongly suspect it was over for them when they lost contact when the hull or what ever failed.
I would hope so. Although part of me feels no sympathy for this half assed shitbag operation and the nuts willing to risk their lives in this piece of shit craft. The idea of slow dying is awful.
I think I know where it is ... it went through a bright glow of light under water ... it will surface 5 and a half year from now with the passengers not aging a day. Then the fun begins... the passengers will start hearing voice and seeing visions of people in distress... let's call it "a calling".
Diamondback
06-21-23, 16:34
https://metro.co.uk/2023/06/21/last-chance-machinery-arrives-in-canada-in-final-bid-to-find-lost-titanic-sub-18987909/
Several years ago I was looking to do something similar, but waaaaaaay cheaper and simpler. After finding out my life insurance policy would not pay out if I died doing something stupid my wife put her foot down and said no.
Implosion, as harsh as it sounds, would probably be the best outcome. Suffocating at the bottom of the ocean would be a terrible way to go.
Even worse, though, is if they somehow surfaced and are simply not found. From what I read it’s sealed from the outside. Can you imagine surfacing and looking out the window to the outside world only to suffocate because you can’t open the hatch? Really, really feel for these guys and hope it ends well, but that’s unlikely.
If they didn't have an emergency locator beacon that triggers once they hit the surface, someone really sucks as a designer. I mean, seriously.
Diamondback
06-21-23, 16:52
If they didn't have an emergency locator beacon that triggers once they hit the surface, someone really sucks as a designer. I mean, seriously.
The Kursk had such a beacon... it catastrophically failed, almost exactly as Tom Clancy depicted with Politovsky, one of the fictional Alfas hunting Red October.
Me, I wouldn't take a dive like that without a hard cable tether to the ship topside and standing directions that "unless directed otherwise, you yoink us back at time X; from that point again you yoink us at time Y UNODIR; after two extensions you yoink us period barring compelling reason not to."
The Kursk had such a beacon... it catastrophically failed, almost exactly as Tom Clancy depicted with Politovsky, one of the fictional Alfas hunting Red October.
Safety systems and Russian are an contradiction in terms bro. That one does not work well as an example.
Diamondback
06-21-23, 17:17
Safety systems and Russian are an contradiction in terms bro. That one does not work well as an example.
Never said they weren't, just noting "single safety = single point of failure." (And the irony of fact playing out precisely as fiction, as if Clancy had actual Russkie crews or systems guys tell them their personal waking-nightmare scenarios and put those to paper.) When Grandpa was wrenching on BUFFs, on Huns in Germany and then Sixes at McChord and Osan, each of the nukes on those birds had six separate independent safety systems that if any ONE of them failed to release, the Physics Package wouldn't do its work and you'd just have a very expensive dirty-bomb rather than a fission or fusion reaction.
Never said they weren't, just noting "single safety = single point of failure." (And the irony of fact playing out precisely as fiction, as if Clancy had actual Russkie crews or systems guys tell them their personal waking-nightmare scenarios and put those to paper.) When Grandpa was wrenching on BUFFs, on Huns in Germany and then Sixes at McChord and Osan, each of the nukes on those birds had six separate independent safety systems that if any ONE of them failed to release, the Physics Package wouldn't do its work and you'd just have a very expensive dirty-bomb rather than a fission or fusion reaction.
The sub was supposed to have 7 back up systems to get back to the surface, some which didn't require power as I understand it, which is why I suspect there was a catastrophic hull breach. It would be a real chit deal if they did get back to the surface, but their emergency beacon didn't function. Possible no doubts. Anything in the marine environment has to be meticulously kept up and tested.
Diamondback
06-21-23, 17:28
The sub was supposed to have 7 back up systems to get back to the surface, some which didn't require power as I understand it, which is why I suspect there was a catastrophic hull breach. It would be a real chit deal if they did get back to the surface, but their emergency beacon didn't function. Possible no doubts. Anything in the marine environment has to be meticulously kept up and tested.
Yeah, there have been similar musings among us WWII historians about the Japanese kaiten suicide-minisubs. If they didn't hit the target and detonate (VERY difficult to guide with the limited periscope view) there was no way to return to the mother sub or even to open the hatch from inside and get out so your choices were either suffocate or blow yourself up.
I've stood next to a Kaiten in a museum and the damn thing made my skin crawl... kinda like the schmuck at RAF who wanted to combine Avro Vulcans and Folland Gnat minijets with nukes installed in their noses as a Cold War revival of the Mitsubishi Betty/Yokosuka Ohka "piloted ALCM."
SilverBullet432
06-21-23, 17:37
99% of the time when such things happen, it's always traced back to human failures of one sort or another. Space Shuttle, most plane crashes, etc, etc. There's always a history that leaves one to conclude it was just a matter of time. Post (avoidable) tragedy, changes get made, but people always have to die first for anyone to wake the F up.
Put two humans together and they can F up anything.
Safety rules and regulations are written in blood. The best we can do is learn from these failures.
Averageman
06-21-23, 17:43
Safety rules and regulations are written in blood. The best we can do is learn from these failures.
And that's what kind of kills me about who was hired to engineer this thing.
Sometimes it's nice to have someone with several decades of actually doing the job working with you as you go.
Upon further review, my understanding is this thing was designed to gently fall to the near bottom of the ocean and then power up.
If you dont power up you drift.
Now they wanted to slowly fall near the wreck, now add in drift.
Makes me wonder if they are located in the wrechage of the Titanic.
You know "room air" is ~ 21% oxygen. You can survive at less; hell, CPR (which I will grant you is right on the edge of life) delivers 17%. Maybe dial down the % (if it's even possible) to make it last slightly longer?
Would hate to be in their situation and I wish them Godspeed. However, I don't want to see the Titanic anywhere near that bad anyway.
Safety rules and regulations are written in blood. The best we can do is learn from these failures.
But they don't have to be written in blood. It's human stupidity, greed, arrogance, and hubris that they have to be written in blood.
Averageman
06-21-23, 18:35
But they don't have to be written in blood. It's human stupidity, greed, arrogance, and hubris that they have to be written in blood.
Just as a note; I have learned more technical things about what made Abrams Tanks work from grumpy old White Men thans any other group of people.
Excluding People who are being honest with you because it isn't what you want to hear is exceptionally stupid and that has been proven again here.
Assuming they're still alive, which I seriously doubt, they've all had to go to the bathroom by now. Could you imagine how horrible the inside of that thing would smell?
And that's what kind of kills me about who was hired to engineer this thing.
Sometimes it's nice to have someone with several decades of actually doing the job working with you as you go.
Upon further review, my understanding is this thing was designed to gently fall to the near bottom of the ocean and then power up.
If you dont power up you drift.
Now they wanted to slowly fall near the wreck, now add in drift.
Makes me wonder if they are located in the wrechage of the Titanic.
I'm sure it's a very expensive thing to do, but at $250,000 a head, which adds up to a million per trip, they could have survived if they put a little more money into the operational end of things. Anyone alive who is still an investor has seen the end of this business venture.
You know "room air" is ~ 21% oxygen. You can survive at less; hell, CPR (which I will grant you is right on the edge of life) delivers 17%. Maybe dial down the % (if it's even possible) to make it last slightly longer?
Would hate to be in their situation and I wish them Godspeed. However, I don't want to see the Titanic anywhere near that bad anyway.
Honestly, even if it was FREE, I wouldn't do it. I think the Titanic is interesting, but the existing footage is enough for me.
I'd really love to travel to outer space, but even if it was FREE, I still wouldn't do it. I understand risk vs. reward. Now if I were closer to what I think are the end of my days and I have all of my responsibilities tended to, then if it was FREE...I might want to do it.
P2Vaircrewman
06-21-23, 22:00
Here is a thought. I you took a full SCUBA tank down to the Titanic and opened the valve no air would come out, water would go in.
I hate to be the one to break the news to everybody, but…. They gone.
Debris field found in the search area...i'm in the camp the carbon fiber hull imploded.
Here is a thought. I you took a full SCUBA tank down to the Titanic and opened the valve no air would come out, water would go in.
What's the PSI at that depth?
What's the PSI at that depth?
Short answer, a lot!
Long answer: https://engineeringunits.com/pressure-at-depth-calculator/
Well now there are two wreckages for half wits to go see! Business if fixin to double!!! Build me another half ass submersible QUICK!!
I foresee some really bad YELP reviews!
Definitely seems like implosion was very likely, especially considering the damning info coming from the ex employee who stated it was only truly rated to 1,400 meters. Not surprised if the debris field is from the submersible. Quick way to go I guess. Better than them suffocating to death after 4 days in a feces filled tin can.
Well now there are two wreckages for half wits to go see! Business if fixin to double!!! Build me another half ass submersible QUICK!!
And do it CHEAP! We gotta maximize profits, you know.
Oh, and be sure not to test it at all because that might damage it before we can fill it full of suckers and take it down there...
What's the PSI at that depth?
Only about 5500 psi at that depth.
Aren’t scuba tanks around 3300 psi?
Only about 5500 psi at that depth.
Aren’t scuba tanks around 3300 psi?
No idea, but aviation o2 tanks are 2000-2400psi
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
And do it CHEAP! We gotta maximize profits, you know.
Oh, and be sure not to test it at all because that might damage it before we can fill it full of suckers and take it down there...
You, Sir... Are a GREAT American!! The great American Mediocrity Dream!!!
Vessels going down there by Monday!! Quality and safety be DAMNED!!!
Just confirmed, the debris field was from the submersible.
Just confirmed, the debris field was from the submersible.
I do wish people would post sources with statements like that. Sounds like my op comments were likely accurate which explained most of the complete loss of coms, etc, there was a hull failure and boom. Was that due to it going below it's design repeatedly? There's going to be an investigation no doubt. Rich people and their families don't appreciate it when you kill them on tourism trips.
I do wish people would post sources with statements like that. .
The source was the coast guard. I try not to be a serial linker.
Coast Guard Statement...sorry sam. :-)
https://twitter.com/CitizenFreePres/status/1671958747437215745
The source was the coast guard. I try not to be a serial linker.
I'm a serial linker then. I like sources. The irony of this is, now we are learning the owner claiming the sub was 'invulnerable.' Where have we heard that before? Oh ya, the huge ship on the bottom of the sea was "unsinkable." Human hubris never ends. However, he's dead so we can say he was willing to put his life where his claims were, and was proven wrong. There's no such thing made by man that is 'invulnerable.'
Serial link! https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12219265/Stockton-Rush-said-didnt-hire-50-year-old-white-guys-NOT-inspirational.html
What's the PSI at that depth?
0.445 PSI per foot of salt water. So, 0.445 x 13,000. 5,800ish. I posted it somewhere on here.
I'm a serial linker then. I like sources. The irony of this is, now we are learning the owner claiming the sub was 'invulnerable.' Where have we heard that before? Oh ya, the huge ship on the bottom of the sea was "unsinkable." Human hubris never ends. However, he's dead so we can say he was willing to put his life where his claims were, and was proven wrong. There's no such thing made by man that is 'invulnerable.'
Serial link! https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12219265/Stockton-Rush-said-didnt-hire-50-year-old-white-guys-NOT-inspirational.html
If true that is some powerful irony and if you believe in such things an absolute jinx / hex. I hope it actually went quick for them and they didn't spend a day or two crapping in a tiny tube waiting to die.
I do wish people would post sources with statements like that. Sounds like my op comments were likely accurate which explained most of the complete loss of coms, etc, there was a hull failure and boom. Was that due to it going below it's design repeatedly? There's going to be an investigation no doubt. Rich people and their families don't appreciate it when you kill them on tourism trips.
That I cannot answer.
Source was from coast guard.
Averageman
06-22-23, 15:07
Tons of information coming out right now on YouTube concerning the debris field.
One guess was that it imploded upon touching the sea floor.
Hell of a way to go.
Not sure about implosion, the only debris identified were the landing gear and the tail cone, the landing gear and possibly the tail were designed to be jettisoned in an emergency. Hull failure would be a mercy, if the emergency safeguards didn't bring them to the surface and they drifted until running out of air, that would be a bad way to go.
Hell of a way to go.
Gone in a millisecond. Better than being trapped for days.
Averageman
06-22-23, 15:24
Here we go Live.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOkm5Qq-YjE
Black_Sheep
06-22-23, 15:43
What's the PSI at that depth?
5375 psi
5375 psi
Thereabouts. Or...0.445 x 1ft/column of sea water.
The Dumb Gun Collector
06-22-23, 16:29
. I’m with y’all, implosion is preferable. RIP
Here we go Live.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOkm5Qq-YjE
Honestly, the implosion would be as merciful as you can get given the circumstances. Pretty much over before you know what happens. Well in theory anyway. Better than sitting around in a coffin waiting to freeze and suffocate.
Hope they all rest in peace.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-22-23, 17:06
Honestly, the implosion would be as merciful as you can get given the circumstances. Pretty much over before you know what happens. Well in theory anyway. Better than sitting around in a coffin waiting to freeze and suffocate.
Hope they all rest in peace.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
ADD: To watch your son die that way…
Click CRUNCH.
Coast Guard guy said the debris were consistent with the pressure tube of the vessel. He also said that they would've picked up the sound of the implosion on their listening devices so it must have happened before they got out there and started listening. Most likely they imploded right at the moment when contact was lost. It's not a surprise considering what we've learned about the construction of the vessel.
SilverBullet432
06-22-23, 17:27
Not sure about implosion, the only debris identified were the landing gear and the tail cone, the landing gear and possibly the tail were designed to be jettisoned in an emergency. Hull failure would be a mercy, if the emergency safeguards didn't bring them to the surface and they drifted until running out of air, that would be a bad way to go.
Seems like they had a system in place to warn them that there was a problem with the pressure hull.
My guess is that:
They were alerted to this problem, aborted the dive (thus jettisoning this equipment) but the problem persisted and the sub imploded on the way back up to the surface. They never made it to the bottom if they lost comms around 1:45 into a 2+ hour dive.
Source:
ABC News interview with James Cameron and Robert Ballard.
https://youtu.be/rThZLhNF_xg
john armond
06-22-23, 17:44
I'm a serial linker then. I like sources. The irony of this is, now we are learning the owner claiming the sub was 'invulnerable.' Where have we heard that before? Oh ya, the huge ship on the bottom of the sea was "unsinkable." Human hubris never ends. However, he's dead so we can say he was willing to put his life where his claims were, and was proven wrong. There's no such thing made by man that is 'invulnerable.'
Serial link! https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12219265/Stockton-Rush-said-didnt-hire-50-year-old-white-guys-NOT-inspirational.html
I believe the actual quote from White Star Line was Virtually or practically unsinkable.
This is blowing up now.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-navy-detected-titan-sub-implosion-days-ago-6844cb12
U.S. Navy Heard What It Believed Was Titan Implosion Days Ago
This is blowing up now.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-navy-detected-titan-sub-implosion-days-ago-6844cb12
U.S. Navy Heard What It Believed Was Titan Implosion Days Ago
I'd actually be surprised if we didn't hear it military-wise.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-22-23, 19:25
I'd actually be surprised if we didn't hear it military-wise.
Was talking to the wife about it when it first happened. Told her the US Navy knows exactly what happened…
Diamondback
06-22-23, 19:26
Well now there are two wreckages for half wits to go see! Business if fixin to double!!! Build me another half ass submersible QUICK!!
Ironic that the Titanic herself was a half-ass build in a number of ways despite having many of the world's top minds contribute to her design and construction... what's the point of watertight compartments if water can get OVER the partitions because the compartments either don't go all the way to the uppermost deck or there's no way to seal things off between decks?
Hopefully this generation learns from the hubris and loss on this the way the ones a hundred years ago did from Ismay and Andrews' hubris that fateful April night in 1912.
StainlessSteelRat
06-22-23, 19:48
Stockton Rush, OceanGate’s CEO, said, “You know, there’s a limit. At some point safety just is pure waste. I mean if you just want to be safe, don’t get out of bed. Don’t get in your car. Don’t do anything. At some point, you’re going to take some risk, and it really is a risk/reward question. I think I can do this just as safely by breaking the rules.” plus, comments about not wanting 50 YO white guys with sub experience.
It's a sad cautionary tale of the danger in a headlong plunge into the abyss of progressivism at any and all cost. Progress is good, but not at the price of discarding wisdom that has been paid for in blood over years.
Coast Guard Statement...sorry sam. :-)
https://twitter.com/CitizenFreePres/status/1671958747437215745
See I made you do the homework. It wasn't that tough was it. Some people want others to spoon feed them.
Diamondback
06-22-23, 19:59
I believe the actual quote from White Star Line was Virtually or practically unsinkable.
The quote from either owner J. Bruce Ismay (survivor), Edward J. Smith or designer Andrews was "God Himself could not sink this ship."
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-22-23, 20:52
Cameron in the ABC interview talks about how safe these subs are when they are certified and properly operated.
Me? I didn’t do that sub that goes out in Maui to look at fish, and I’m not a big fan of glass bottom boats…
So the navy knew when it imploded but continued to allow the coast guard to keep wasting money and resources along with the private sector.
My guess is they didn’t want others to know about this technology but then it might boil down to lack of communication.
https://www.foxnews.com/world/us-navy-detected-titan-sub-implosion-top-secret-acoustic-system-day-vessel-went-missing
The quote from either owner J. Bruce Ismay (survivor), Edward J. Smith or designer Andrews was "God Himself could not sink this ship."
God: "Challenge accepted, my son."
So the navy knew when it imploded but continued to allow the coast guard to keep wasting money and resources along with the private sector.
My guess is they didn’t want others to know about this technology but then it might boil down to lack of communication.
https://www.foxnews.com/world/us-navy-detected-titan-sub-implosion-top-secret-acoustic-system-day-vessel-went-missing
The Navy passed on that information to the Coast Guard which continued its search because the Navy did not consider the data to be definitive.
"While not definitive, this information was immediately shared with the Incident Commander to assist with the ongoing search and rescue mission," the official said in a statement to Fox News Digital.
Sounds like they did share it immediately.
SilverBullet432
06-22-23, 21:27
Cameron in the ABC interview talks about how safe these subs are when they are certified and properly operated.
Me? I didn’t do that sub that goes out in Maui to look at fish, and I’m not a big fan of glass bottom boats…
Victor Vescovo spent 37 Million dollars to build, test and CERTIFY the DSV Limiting Factor. Cameron and Ballard also mentioned that this is the first fatal accident involving a deep submergence vehicle since man first began exploring ultra deep waters with the Trieste in the 60’s. Cameron himself spent 3 years alone CAD modeling the pressure vessel for his DSV Deepsea Challenger. Sounds like properly built and certified submersibles are very safe to me.
So the navy knew when it imploded but continued to allow the coast guard to keep wasting money and resources along with the private sector.
My guess is they didn’t want others to know about this technology but then it might boil down to lack of communication.
https://www.foxnews.com/world/us-navy-detected-titan-sub-implosion-top-secret-acoustic-system-day-vessel-went-missing
You still have to show the world due diligence and at least investigate. Now that there is tangible evidence, they can feel confident in confirming what they thought they heard.
Stockton Rush, OceanGate’s CEO, said, “You know, there’s a limit. At some point safety just is pure waste. I mean if you just want to be safe, don’t get out of bed. Don’t get in your car. Don’t do anything. At some point, you’re going to take some risk, and it really is a risk/reward question. I think I can do this just as safely by breaking the rules.” plus, comments about not wanting 50 YO white guys with sub experience.
It's a sad cautionary tale of the danger in a headlong plunge into the abyss of progressivism at any and all cost. Progress is good, but not at the price of discarding wisdom that has been paid for in blood over years.
Guy was an asshole, the only sad thing is he took 4 other innocent people with him. Shame it didn't implode when he took his solo test dive.
teufelhund1918
06-23-23, 05:01
So the navy knew when it imploded but continued to allow the coast guard to keep wasting money and resources along with the private sector.
My guess is they didn’t want others to know about this technology but then it might boil down to lack of communication.
https://www.foxnews.com/world/us-navy-detected-titan-sub-implosion-top-secret-acoustic-system-day-vessel-went-missing
Ditto, but if they wanted to keep the technology top secret, you would think they wouldn't make it the headline news on FOX and the other news channels... :rolleyes:
Was talking to the wife about it when it first happened. Told her the US Navy knows exactly what happened…
I hadn't thought of that but it makes sense in retrospect.
The quote from either owner J. Bruce Ismay (survivor), Edward J. Smith or designer Andrews was "God Himself could not sink this ship."
Whether God heard that and put that iceberg in the way or not, not the thing to claim. Then the owner of that sub says something similar? Eeeks. Humans never learn.
Diamondback
06-23-23, 08:31
Whether God heard that and put that iceberg in the way or not, not the thing to claim. Then the owner of that sub says something similar? Eeeks. Humans never learn.
History may not precisely repeat, but it sure does tend to have VERY strong rhyme... it's time to modify Einstein's quote about the only things that are limitless by adding Arrogance to "the Universe and Stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
I'm starting to wonder if there's something about that particular point on Earth that's cursed... you couldn't get me to 41-46N 50-14W, even just staying on the surface, if you offered a pile of cash to make Elon Musk look like a pauper, that $75mil DARPA project fund I've wanted for decades and the B-52 airframe to apply it to upgrading, airframe MINE free and clear no-taxes-ever at conclusion of the R&D program. And considering that THAT latter has been a Big Want since I was a kid...
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-23-23, 09:46
We’ll, if nothing else that place is definately haunted now…
In times when experts have been taking it to balls over all kinds of things like COVID, sometimes experts and old people know things.
I’m coming up in 30 years of working in the same industry. We lost a young, promising co-worker to a competitor- and I felt a little slighted that they didn’t try to poach me instead. The guy that they took told me that they actually asked about me in the interview and the competitor referred to me as “legendary”- I’m hoping in the positive sense.
Sounds like the company here skipped ‘legendary’ and instead went with ‘legend in their own mind’…
"Let's make a deep sea submersible out of never been done before carbon fiber." "How's that going to hold up to repeated high pressure/cold soak/no pressure/warm soaks?" "Don't know, it'll be fine, sign up paying customers."
In my mind the most likely failure point would be the landing gear attachment points and the shock of hitting the sea bed triggered the implosion.
P2Vaircrewman
06-23-23, 10:13
Ditto, but if they wanted to keep the technology top secret, you would think they wouldn't make it the headline news on FOX and the other news channels... :rolleyes:
This is not top secrete tech. I was a sonar operator in the 60's and we had it before then.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SOSUS
Some guy on the news was defending the shit box craft and said NASA had input on the turd. Just classic. Like the NASA imbeciles lend credibility to this.. Yeah. They have an impeccable safety record!!
Diamondback
06-23-23, 10:59
Some guy on the news was defending the shit box craft and said NASA had input on the turd. Just classic. Like the NASA imbeciles lend credibility to this.. Yeah. They have an impeccable safety record!!
Again, historical parallel. The Guys Who Knew SAID the original Apollo capsule was a firetrap waiting to happen, NASA management insisted on cheapassing until Grissom, White and Chaffee died horribly on the pad. Ditto the corner-cutting on the Shuttle that led to Challenger and Columbia. Von Braun straight broke down in tears when he saw the final SS design saying "this KLUDGE is gonna KILL somebody," but knew that nobody would listen because NASA was under strong political pressure to "purge the Krauts now that they've outlived their usefulness."
Again, historical parallel. The Guys Who Knew SAID the original Apollo capsule was a firetrap waiting to happen, NASA management insisted on cheapassing until Grissom, White and Chaffee died horribly on the pad. Ditto the corner-cutting on the Shuttle that led to Challenger and Columbia. Von Braun straight broke down in tears when he saw the final SS design saying "this KLUDGE is gonna KILL somebody," but knew that nobody would listen because NASA was under strong political pressure to "purge the Krauts now that they've outlived their usefulness."
As I said a few pages ago, 99% of the time such events happen, it's due to human arrogance, stupidity and greed. The safety improvements only happen after tragedy, and then the slow process of not keeping up with best practices happens and cycle repeats. At least make it required to have third party testing done as the owner of that sub refused to do apparently.
Truth is, statistically it's been a safe thing, but as more come on line and go deeper and deeper, risks go up too.
We’ll, if nothing else that place is definately haunted now…
In times when experts have been taking it to balls over all kinds of things like COVID, sometimes experts and old people know things.
I’m coming up in 30 years of working in the same industry. We lost a young, promising co-worker to a competitor- and I felt a little slighted that they didn’t try to poach me instead. The guy that they took told me that they actually asked about me in the interview and the competitor referred to me as “legendary”- I’m hoping in the positive sense.
Sounds like the company here skipped ‘legendary’ and instead went with ‘legend in their own mind’…
People being people, I bet there will be more interest than ever to go down and see it too. I have never understood the fixation with that ship. Was interesting when they finally found it and all, but it didn't seem to stem the fixation with it. There's been far more tragic ship wrecks where more died and all that. They have romanticized that one to an extreme. I always just viewed it an example of human arrogance/
Supposed pic of the wreckage.
https://twitter.com/CBKNEWS121/status/1672248063962800134
Adrenaline_6
06-23-23, 11:55
Supposed pic of the wreckage.
https://twitter.com/CBKNEWS121/status/1672248063962800134
Sketchy. In a few days you have that kind of deterioration and growth on it? No implosion either.
Edit: Looking at it further, the shadows don't even make sense. Light would be coming from the same viewpoint. There is no light down there.
Supposed pic of the wreckage.
https://twitter.com/CBKNEWS121/status/1672248063962800134
That does not look right to me. Looks like rust on it. Maybe silt? Looks like a rocket motor to me. Will be interested to know if legit.
SomeOtherGuy
06-23-23, 12:37
Supposed pic of the wreckage.
https://twitter.com/CBKNEWS121/status/1672248063962800134
Ah yes, good ol reliable CB"K" news...
I think that's a hasty model in someone's aquarium.
ChattanoogaPhil
06-23-23, 13:18
Appears to be multiple pieces of equipment for camera and lighting (see shadow).
https://i.imgur.com/gSicvqv.png
ChattanoogaPhil
06-23-23, 13:26
That does not look right to me. Looks like rust on it. Maybe silt? Looks like a rocket motor to me. Will be interested to know if legit.
Maybe it's a piece of equipment used on the sub? The pics of Titan I've seen appear smooth sided.
P2Vaircrewman
06-23-23, 13:35
Kinda looks like a rocket motor.
Adrenaline_6
06-23-23, 14:22
NO way these are the same thing.
https://i.imgur.com/gSicvqv.png
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftfe-bd.sgp1.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com%2Fposts%2F11857%2Ftitanic-tourist-submersible.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=8667ed105d230a08862f1fe46adbee4d8c0872e68ae5ef334f3df35177f6a108&ipo=images
NO way these are the same thing.
https://i.imgur.com/gSicvqv.png
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftfe-bd.sgp1.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com%2Fposts%2F11857%2Ftitanic-tourist-submersible.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=8667ed105d230a08862f1fe46adbee4d8c0872e68ae5ef334f3df35177f6a108&ipo=images
Actually, lower left hand corner of the sub looks similar to the pic. Directional nozzle? We have to remember the force was like a bomb going off in reverse. Huge amounts of energy and force involved.
Averageman
06-23-23, 14:44
You may be seeing it after the implosion turned much of it inside out.
Adrenaline_6
06-23-23, 14:46
Actually, lower left hand corner of the sub looks similar to the pic. Directional nozzle? We have to remember the force was like a bomb going off in reverse. Huge amounts of energy and force involved.
No...the carbon fiber tube is smooth. The other object is metal and has ribbing.
john armond
06-23-23, 15:01
The quote from either owner J. Bruce Ismay (survivor), Edward J. Smith or designer Andrews was "God Himself could not sink this ship."
That quote was actually stated by an unknown crew member to embarking passenger, Mrs. Sylvia Caldwell.
However, "There is no danger that Titanic will sink. The boat is unsinkable and nothing but inconvenience will be suffered by the passengers." Was stated to newspapers by Phillip Franklin, White Star Line vice-president…after the Titanic was already on the ocean floor.
There was also WSL literature that said it was “designed to be unsinkable” so pretty close, but not exactly. I would guess this is where the wording changed.
In 1911, Shipbuilder magazine published an article on the White Star Line’s sister ships Titanic and Olympic. The article described the construction of the ship and concluded that Titanic was practically unsinkable.
Looked fishy to me & certainly not like a 5" carbon fiber hull...lotsa goofy 411 going around on this deal.
john armond
06-23-23, 15:20
Looked fishy to me & certainly not like a 5" carbon fiber hull...lotsa goofy 411 going around on this deal.
The actual capsule used in the faked moon landing pictures after NASA had to hide it????;:lol:
militarymoron
06-23-23, 15:23
"Let's make a deep sea submersible out of never been done before carbon fiber." "How's that going to hold up to repeated high pressure/cold soak/no pressure/warm soaks?" "Don't know, it'll be fine, sign up paying customers."
In my mind the most likely failure point would be the landing gear attachment points and the shock of hitting the sea bed triggered the implosion.
Carbon fiber is strong in tension (good for tanks with high internal pressure), but not in compression, so I'm just in disbelief that they'd think it was a good application for a deep-sea submersible.
Also, the failure modes of carbon fiber are more catastrophic due to their stiffness, vs. metals with some yield before failing. They used the wrong material for the wrong application.
titsonritz
06-23-23, 15:33
That does not look right to me. Looks like rust on it. Maybe silt? Looks like a rocket motor to me. Will be interested to know if legit.
Yeah, I'm buying that. :jester:
The only thing in common is the semi-cylindrical shape.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/titan-submersible-search-questions-1.6883870
Carbon fiber is strong in tension (good for tanks with high internal pressure), but not in compression, so I'm just in disbelief that they'd think it was a good application for a deep-sea submersible.
Also, the failure modes of carbon fiber are more catastrophic due to their stiffness, vs. metals with some yield before failing. They used the wrong material for the wrong application.
And then refused to have it third party tested so no one could raise any flags and fired the guy who said it was not designed to operate at those depths. It's always a series of humans screw up that leads to these types of events that in retrospect it's hard to believe could happen at all, yet they do over and over.
I’m having a hard time finding sympathy for those fools who chose to ride this death trap to the bottom of the sea... apparently it’s no secret this thing was a coffin made out of recycled glocks or something...
Gotta feel for the kid after seeing this.
OceanGate passenger Suleman Dawood was 'terrified' of Titanic trip, aunt says
Pakistani 19-year-old went on OceanGate trip to please his dad for Father’s Day, report says
https://www.foxnews.com/world/oceangate-passenger-suleman-dawood-terrified-titanic-trip-aunt-says#&_intcmp=fnhpriver_25
Gotta feel for the kid after seeing this.
OceanGate passenger Suleman Dawood was 'terrified' of Titanic trip, aunt says
Pakistani 19-year-old went on OceanGate trip to please his dad for Father’s Day, report says
https://www.foxnews.com/world/oceangate-passenger-suleman-dawood-terrified-titanic-trip-aunt-says#&_intcmp=fnhpriver_25
Damn! :(
Diamondback
06-23-23, 18:24
Carbon fiber is strong in tension (good for tanks with high internal pressure), but not in compression, so I'm just in disbelief that they'd think it was a good application for a deep-sea submersible.
Also, the failure modes of carbon fiber are more catastrophic due to their stiffness, vs. metals with some yield before failing. They used the wrong material for the wrong application.
IIRC carbon fiber also has a spectacular Torsion failure-mode too. Back in the early 2000s a buddy who was hotrodding his Trans Am put in a carbon-fiber driveline that failed, and when it did it abraded itself into oblivion against his transmission-tunnel where a steel one breaking the same way would've shoved a big hunk of metal bar right through that tunnel and directly up his ass. According to him the inside of the TT looked like it had been sandblasted.
Diamondback
06-23-23, 18:25
Gotta feel for the kid after seeing this.
OceanGate passenger Suleman Dawood was 'terrified' of Titanic trip, aunt says
Pakistani 19-year-old went on OceanGate trip to please his dad for Father’s Day, report says
https://www.foxnews.com/world/oceangate-passenger-suleman-dawood-terrified-titanic-trip-aunt-says#&_intcmp=fnhpriver_25
There is a special circle of Hell for those who lead others astray...
OceanGate CEO once said Titan sub's hull was made with carbon fiber from Boeing that was past its airplane shelf life, would-be passenger says
https://www.insider.com/oceangate-ceo-said-titan-made-old-material-bought-boeing-report-2023-6
P2Vaircrewman
06-23-23, 19:05
Carbon fiber is strong in tension (good for tanks with high internal pressure), but not in compression, so I'm just in disbelief that they'd think it was a good application for a deep-sea submersible.
Also, the failure modes of carbon fiber are more catastrophic due to their stiffness, vs. metals with some yield before failing. They used the wrong material for the wrong application.
Unlike metal high pressure cylinders which can last decades, carbon fiber ones have a 15 year specified service live
hotbiggun42
06-23-23, 19:15
Biden kept the sub implosion quiet in order to keep the Hunter story out of the headlines. Godless people are evil.
Biden kept the sub implosion quiet in order to keep the Hunter story out of the headlines. Godless people are evil.
That makes zero sense. Wouldn't you promote the sub story to drown out the Hunter story?
What do the sharks eat for lunch near the titanic?
Five Guys
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-23-23, 22:21
What do the sharks eat for lunch near the titanic?
Five Guys
We’ll, that didn’t take long…
https://i.imgur.com/bmDH1Uv.jpg
ChattanoogaPhil
06-24-23, 06:02
That makes zero sense. Wouldn't you promote the sub story to drown out the Hunter story?
The sub story remained headline news for days because of the search drama racing against time before O2 ran out and all that. If on day one it was announced that the sub’s implosion was detected it would have effectively killed the drama that fueled headline news.
So yeah, it makes sense if you subscribe to the notion that the detection of implosion was withheld to keep the sub story in the headlines and drown out (no pun intended) Hunter related news.
gunrunner505
06-24-23, 06:29
Question is, who in that sub knew something about the Clintons?
On another note, that submersible was so shady I wouldn’t take it to the bottom of my swimming pool, never mind 2.5 miles down to the bottom of the ocean.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230624/cd5c68f71b7c6f559b4e669225a98789.jpg
P2Vaircrewman
06-24-23, 09:34
As an esoteric exercise I ran a Boyle's law calculation on the change in volume of the air in the sub at implosion
Assuming the inside of the sub was 5 feet in diameter and 15 feet long the interior volume would have been 785 cubic feet. Pressure in the sub was 14.7 psi ( normal atmospheric pressure).
If implosion depth was 11,500 feet, sea water pressure was about 5100 psi.
At the instant of implosion the internal air volume (785 cu/ft @14.7 psi) would have been compressed to 2.8 cubic feet at 5500 psi.
Not a lot of room for 5 bodies in 2.8 cubic feet. That is equal to a box about 17" x 17" x 17".
This is interesting with what happened to the bodies.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TikTokCringe/comments/14hh824/he_crushed_this_explanation/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-24-23, 11:03
As an esoteric exercise I ran a Boyle's law calculation on the change in volume of the air in the sub at implosion
Assuming the inside of the sub was 5 feet in diameter and 15 feet long the interior volume would have been 785 cubic feet. Pressure in the sub was 14.7 psi ( normal atmospheric pressure).
If implosion depth was 11,500 feet, sea water pressure was about 5100 psi.
At the instant of implosion the internal air volume (785 cu/ft @14.7 psi) would have been compressed to 2.8 cubic feet at 5500 psi.
Not a lot of room for 5 bodies in 2.8 cubic feet. That is equal to a box about 17" x 17" x 17".
Interesting. Of course, we are actually bags of water with some air pockets and I’m not sure the exact ratio and the water in our bodies is not as compressible as the air. The other thing is the kinetic energy of the stuff moving around.
I’m surprise no one has done a simulation with a carbon fiber tube and a couple of end caps with some chicken nuggets on the inside.
Wasn’t there some north Atlantic deep diver, decompression accident that happened in the past 20 years were a hatch or some thing failed and a guy got basically extruded out?
StainlessSteelRat
06-24-23, 11:15
Interesting. Of course, we are actually bags of water with some air pockets and I’m not sure the exact ratio and the water in our bodies is not as compressible as the air. The other thing is the kinetic energy of the stuff moving around.
I’m surprise no one has done a simulation with a carbon fiber tube and a couple of end caps with some chicken nuggets on the inside.
Wasn’t there some north Atlantic deep diver, decompression accident that happened in the past 20 years were a hatch or some thing failed and a guy got basically extruded out?
This one, perhaps.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byford_Dolphin#Diving_bell_accident
As an esoteric exercise I ran a Boyle's law calculation on the change in volume of the air in the sub at implosion
Assuming the inside of the sub was 5 feet in diameter and 15 feet long the interior volume would have been 785 cubic feet. Pressure in the sub was 14.7 psi ( normal atmospheric pressure).
If implosion depth was 11,500 feet, sea water pressure was about 5100 psi.
At the instant of implosion the internal air volume (785 cu/ft @14.7 psi) would have been compressed to 2.8 cubic feet at 5500 psi.
Not a lot of room for 5 bodies in 2.8 cubic feet. That is equal to a box about 17" x 17" x 17".
This is interesting with what happened to the bodies.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TikTokCringe/comments/14hh824/he_crushed_this_explanation/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1
Yep. Then there's the heat. That video did a good job explaining how the rapid compression of the gas at that pressure is equivalent to the surface of the sun.
This one, perhaps.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byford_Dolphin#Diving_bell_accident
Eew. That nasty.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-24-23, 13:55
This one, perhaps.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byford_Dolphin#Diving_bell_accident
Eew. That nasty.
Yep, I think that’s the one. And that was 9 bars what was the pressure delta on the sub?
And an excerpt:
Investigation by forensic pathologists determined that Hellevik, being exposed to the highest pressure gradient and in the process of moving to secure the inner door, was forced through the crescent-shaped opening measuring 60 centimetres (24 in) long created by the jammed interior trunk door. With the escaping air and pressure, it included bisection of his thoracoabdominal cavity, which resulted in fragmentation of his body, followed by expulsion of all of the internal organs of his chest and abdomen, except the trachea and a section of small intestine, and of the thoracic spine. These were projected some distance, one section being found 10 metres (30 ft) vertically above the exterior pressure door.
And that was at a 9 bar differential, the Titan was at 300-400 Bar? Of course, the opposite way, decompression rather than compression.
It is amazing to me how resilient the human body is, but when when you start dealing with industrial sized forces and objects, we don’t stand a chance.
This is interesting with what happened to the bodies.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TikTokCringe/comments/14hh824/he_crushed_this_explanation/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1
That's honestly horrifying. Turned into cooked gel before your nervous system even had time to register what was happening. No wonder the Coast Guard didn't have much to say during the press conference when they were asked about recovering the bodies. Everybody says "at least they didn't feel anything" but I feel like I'd want to at least see my death coming rather than just being gone without ever knowing what happened, that's almost worse.
It is amazing to me how resilient the human body is, but when when you start dealing with industrial sized forces and objects, we don’t stand a chance.
Physics will win every time....
P2Vaircrewman
06-24-23, 16:32
That's honestly horrifying. Turned into cooked gel before your nervous system even had time to register what was happening. Now wonder the Coast Guard didn't have much to say during the press conference when they were asked about recovering the bodies. Everybody says "at least they didn't feel anything" but I feel like I'd want to at least see my death coming rather than just being gone without ever knowing what happened, that's almost worse.
As a teenager I was hit in the head by a rock thrown through the wind shield. I never saw it coming, I was unconscious for 20 minutes, had a fractured skull and concussion and have a residual deficit in my left hand from brain damage, but could just as well have been dead. Never much feared death after that.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-24-23, 16:36
That's honestly horrifying. Turned into cooked gel before your nervous system even had time to register what was happening. Now wonder the Coast Guard didn't have much to say during the press conference when they were asked about recovering the bodies. Everybody says "at least they didn't feel anything" but I feel like I'd want to at least see my death coming rather than just being gone without ever knowing what happened, that's almost worse.
I thought I heard that they think the shovel was headed back up right before it blew in, so maybe they had an inkling. A bad thing would’ve been if the hole had a needle sized hole in it, and the pressure started ramping up before the final crunch. Will never know.
A gent with creds to comment commenting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaOVYkWgpcM
Not me. I'll take baked jello in a nanosecond over sitting its the dark waiting to suffocate or freeze wondering WTF I got my kid killed...
SilverBullet432
06-26-23, 19:23
A gent with creds to comment commenting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaOVYkWgpcM
Kick-ass analysis. As James Cameron said in his Deepsea Challenge documentary, the PV on his DSV (Deep Challenger) is made of Maraging Steel, and shrank by 2” during the course of the full ocean depth (36K ft.) dive!! Thus, it was mounted to the sub with straps. A common design I’ve seen across multiple DSV systems.
It really seemed like it should have been obvious from the get-go. Carbon Fiber composites do not react well to outside (compression) stress, and aren’t malleable or ductile..
Not me. I'll take baked jello in a nanosecond over sitting its the dark waiting to suffocate or freeze wondering WTF I got my kid killed...
Yeah, while a few moments for a last look around and final thoughts are nice under most circumstances, having to contemplate the full horror of some events cancels all that out.
https://i.postimg.cc/hPBNktw0/IMG-20230627-143831.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
So they need to have HPMPI next vessel?
SilverBullet432
06-28-23, 15:19
The wreckage has been raised.
https://youtu.be/yfrmno2rCzQ
Looks like the Titanium caps and rings held up well…
Why would they waste resources pulling this junk up??? I can only guess it's because of the sensational coverage of this moronic venture.
Now my new adventure company tours of this wreckage is never going to succeed! I just converted two chrysler mini vans into subs too!! spent over 600 dollars! :mad:
The wreckage has been raised.
https://youtu.be/yfrmno2rCzQ
Looks like the Titanium caps and rings held up well…
Pretty much a forgone conclusion the carbon fiber hull was the major weak spot in an bad design all around. That didn't age well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1vq59yNqpo
SilverBullet432
06-28-23, 16:04
Pretty much a forgone conclusion the carbon fiber hull was the major weak spot in an bad design all around.
That and the porthole, which is missing from the end cap.
I’m sure people will speculate that it (porthole) was the weakest link since there are reports that it was only rated for 1300M.
Who knows, could have been blown off in the implosion when the CF failed, or maybe it failed?
I’m putting my money on the bond between the Ti rings and the CF hull. That shit was literally glued together in an uncontrolled environment with what looked like epoxy… (Lots of vids out there showing the construction of this nautical abomination).
The wreckage has been raised.....
Why would they waste resources pulling this junk up??? I can only guess it's because of the sensational coverage of this moronic venture.
Now my new adventure company tours of this wreckage is never going to succeed! I just converted two chrysler mini vans into subs too!! spent over 600 dollars! :mad:
My guess it wasn't "raised" so much as "collected". I would imagine a lot of that debris was floating around...
That and the porthole, which is missing from the end cap.
I’m sure people will speculate that it (porthole) was the weakest link since there are reports that it was only rated for 1300M.
Who knows, could have been blown off in the implosion when the CF failed, or maybe it failed?
I’m putting my money on the bond between the Ti rings and the CF hull. That shit was literally glued together in an uncontrolled environment with what looked like epoxy… (Lots of vids out there showing the construction of this nautical abomination).
Yeah, that's my thinking as well. Titanium endcaps glued to the carbon fiber cylinder. The bond between two different materials under extreme stress would be an obvious point of weakness.
The sub made the trip a few times, the joints could have weakened from repeated extreme change in pressure, repeated extreme load on the joints due to the flexing of two dissimilar materials could've caused them to fail.
SilverBullet432
06-28-23, 17:43
Yeah, that's my thinking as well. Titanium endcaps glued to the carbon fiber cylinder. The bond between two different materials under extreme stress would be an obvious point of weakness.
The sub made the trip a few times, the joints could have weakened from repeated extreme change in pressure, repeated extreme load on the joints due to the flexing of two dissimilar materials could've caused them to fail.
News reports say it was the thirteenth dive too of all…
I read they have found "possible human remains" but that ot would need to be lab tested. You'd have to be extremely obliterated if they need a lab to test the substance to see if it's human.
I read they have found "possible human remains" but that ot would need to be lab tested. You'd have to be extremely obliterated if they need a lab to test the substance to see if it's human.
At that depth and pressure they were crushed and incinerated all in less than a second.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-29-23, 00:11
At that depth and pressure they were crushed and incinerated all in less than a second.
Cook- Crush- Flush
The design of the thing sounded like an imploding pipe bomb.
My wife couldn't figure out what imploding at that depth meant. I'm no diver or deep sea expert, but I read and pay attention. The simplest example I gave her was "take a can of tomato and smash it with a sledge hammer, the can is the sub, the tomato is the human, the sledge hammer is the pressure at that depth". She got the picture real quick.
Sam, there are some videos of tanker rail cars imploding, available online. And that's at 1 ATM pressure. Not sure why they imploded, but it's another good visual.
Well, anybody here ever seen a truck tire blow up? Those things are filled to around 100 PSI and can go off like a grenade. Or how about one of those oxygen welding tanks falling over and losing it's valve stem, those are about 2000 PSI and can go shooting off with enough force to penetrate through a building. Now think of the destruction those pressures that I just mentioned can generate, and realize that the inside of this sub had 6000 PSI coming in on it! It's difficult to find words that are strong enough to describe the absolute violence and obliteration that must have happened inside there. That's why there's nothing left of the human remains but jelly.
Here's the rail tanker implosion vid Sam...had to explain the same to my wife.
https://twitter.com/Figensport/status/1672313571772866577
My wife couldn't figure out what imploding at that depth meant. I'm no diver or deep sea expert, but I read and pay attention. The simplest example I gave her was "take a can of tomato and smash it with a sledge hammer, the can is the sub, the tomato is the human, the sledge hammer is the pressure at that depth". She got the picture real quick.
Basically a reverse explosion.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-29-23, 08:07
My wife couldn't figure out what imploding at that depth meant. I'm no diver or deep sea expert, but I read and pay attention. The simplest example I gave her was "take a can of tomato and smash it with a sledge hammer, the can is the sub, the tomato is the human, the sledge hammer is the pressure at that depth". She got the picture real quick.
Basically a reverse explosion.
That's interesting. Outside of the actual event, these implosions, at these energies, are really rare in normal life. Explosions, meh. Implosions... You really need a column of water to get a pressure difference like that all around an object.
Take an empty plastic soda bottle on a plane and put a cap on it at altitude and see it crumple when landing... and that is a fraction of an ATM.
Don't google the terms WIFE and ATM....
That's interesting. Outside of the actual event, these implosions, at these energies, are really rare in normal life. Explosions, meh. Implosions... You really need a column of water to get a pressure difference like that all around an object.
Take an empty plastic soda bottle on a plane and put a cap on it at altitude and see it crumple when landing... and that is a fraction of an ATM.
Don't google the terms WIFE and ATM....
Other than deep sea events, can't think of humans experiencing highly energetic implosions naturally or otherwise. I think it's hard to really fathom the energies involved at such depths due to again, it being totally outside of human experience so nothing to really reference there to explain it. Reverse explosion is closest I can think of there.
Averageman
06-29-23, 08:46
My Dad did underwater welding on oil platforms in the Gulf. He did it about five years before his headaches ended that.
I'm pretty sure it takes it's toll.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-29-23, 08:57
https://youtu.be/ZyT8mVwf_40
That's interesting. Outside of the actual event, these implosions, at these energies, are really rare in normal life. Explosions, meh. Implosions... You really need a column of water to get a pressure difference like that all around an object.
Take an empty plastic soda bottle on a plane and put a cap on it at altitude and see it crumple when landing... and that is a fraction of an ATM.
Don't google the terms WIFE and ATM....
When I worked in dive medicine/hyperbarics we'd do the plastic bottle thing. Impressed the patients, and most of our treatment profiles were 2-4 ATM. When I worked on the research side some of our dives were 6-8 ATM. The bottle would be squashed flat like a pancake.
How legit is not known, but:
‘Transcript of Titan sub’s final communication’ leaked online
https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/transcript-of-titan-sub-s-final-communication-leaked-online-but-is-it-real/ar-AA1drtZm
SilverBullet432
07-05-23, 17:35
How legit is not known, but:
‘Transcript of Titan sub’s final communication’ leaked online
https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/transcript-of-titan-sub-s-final-communication-leaked-online-but-is-it-real/ar-AA1drtZm
This guy did a good break down of it:
https://youtu.be/4Dj8IJbP41c
If its true, then the story takes an even darker twist as surely by then the crew knew something was very wrong.
If factual, what kind of weight were they dropping all over the place?
https://nypost.com/2023/07/05/titan-passenger-recalls-how-sub-battery-went-kaput-on-way-to-titanic/amp/
.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230706/7ee9cf26fe8b32c16c3f50ed94c3df47.jpg
If factual, what kind of weight were they dropping all over the place?
https://nypost.com/2023/07/05/titan-passenger-recalls-how-sub-battery-went-kaput-on-way-to-titanic/amp/
The last paragraph in that article…ooof.
I saw an interview where a passenger on a previous dive said he heard cracking and popping sounds coming from the hull.
SilverBullet432
07-06-23, 15:55
Just in:
OceanGate suspends all operations.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/oceangate-suspends-exploration-commercial-operations-after-titan-implosion/story?id=100779250
If factual, what kind of weight were they dropping all over the place?
https://nypost.com/2023/07/05/titan-passenger-recalls-how-sub-battery-went-kaput-on-way-to-titanic/amp/
New video has emerged of him saying the submersible had been severely damaged by a lightning strike during a 2018 test dive in the Bahamas.
Will these revelations never stop? It's amazing it lasted as long as it did.
Averageman
07-10-23, 20:59
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Dj8IJbP41c
Very interesting, explains a lot.
Just in:
OceanGate suspends all operations.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/oceangate-suspends-exploration-commercial-operations-after-titan-implosion/story?id=100779250
Shocking. I thought with all the free press they'd be booked for years.
FromMyColdDeadHand
07-12-23, 06:34
.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230706/7ee9cf26fe8b32c16c3f50ed94c3df47.jpg
This totally sparked a memory from when I was a kid and a read a series of books, “Mad Scientists Club”? Something like that. One book, they take a nose from a B29 and make a home-built sub out of it. Spoiler, they live. Don’t remember what crime/thing that they solved. Good series of books for a science nerd.
SilverBullet432
07-12-23, 16:51
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Dj8IJbP41c
Very interesting, explains a lot.
He did a follow-up video, which was informative as well.
https://youtu.be/iJ1DxQVdFh4
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