Groups at 200 yards with 55 gr ammo

[Sparepartsbuild]

I went shooting today to finally test out the LaRue trigger I installed probably a year ago and it felt great compared to the standard trigger it replaced, but I was disappointed with my lack of consistent groups at 200 yards. I am just trying to figure out what a realistic group would be using 55 gr Federal ammo to see how much of the problem is just me. I was shooting a 16" rifle with a Vortex 1-8 Strike Eagle LPVO using full magnification. My target was 12" in diameter with an inner 6" ring and a 3" bullseye. I had hoped to land 50% of my shots in the 6" ring, but probably only got 50% in the 12" target. I began dialing things in at 100 yards and was landing the majority of my shots in a 6-8" ring and then moved to 200 yards and continually had to make adjustments and just could not get consistent hits. The scope, mount, etc. all seem solid so I do not think they are the problem so that leaves me and the ammo. Any thoughts? What are your groups like at 200 yards with 55 gr ammo? Thanks.

[gaijin]

What rifle/carbine?
Shooting position? Prone/bagged, benched?
Federal ammo FMJ, JHP, ??

I expect 5” to 6” groups at 200 yds, benched or stable prone using IMI m193 or similar.
If I’m wanting better groups I’m not shooting m193/55 gr FMJ, but 69 or 77 gr OTM.

[MarshallDodge]

I'm between 1-2" at 100 yards with 55FMJ. That bullet isn't all that great for accuracy so I have never tried it on paper at 200.

If you want accuracy, try a match or varmint bullet.

Another thing to consider is wind and mirage. 2 MPH of full value wind will move your bullet 1", and you can barely see that in the grass or trees.

[MegademiC]

6-8" at 100yds is most likely you. Focus on consistency of your trigger pull, followthrough, and how youre sitting behind the gun.

[1168]

Most quality rifles are capable of grouping roughly half that with mediocre 55gr ball. I have no good way of assessing your fundamentals from here, but if you do better with other rifles or other ammo, that could be a clue. You mentioned making a lot of adjustments at 200 yards…what do you mean by that, exactly?

I’d suggest that you rule out the ammo as the problem, just in case. Like, buy a box each of two different bullet weights of OTM loaded ammo, and see how that goes. Then, you can try to determine if its the rifle, the optic, or you.

[markm]

55gr FMJ isn't enough info. The bullet quality can vary greatly. Crappy 55s might be 8" at 200. But better quality like Hornady's FMJ should get you around 4" if you have a magnified optic and no wind. I used to strive for under 4" with irons at 100 yards for FMJ bullets. i.e., a clean head shot with no magnification.

[Stickman]

55gr FMJ isn't enough info. The bullet quality can vary greatly. Crappy 55s might be 8" at 200. But better quality like Hornady's FMJ should get you around 4" if you have a magnified optic and no wind. I used to strive for under 4" with irons at 100 yards for FMJ bullets. i.e., a clean head shot with no magnification.

Yup. Using generic ammo for precision testing is pointless. It isn't worthless, because you are still training and using your fundamentals, but if you are trying to dial in new equipment it is going to be very limiting.


Since I'm cheap, I'll use any generic bullet to get on paper and semi close to zero'd in to my target when setting up new items (new scope, mount, sights, or whatever). Once I'm pretty close, I'll switch over to higher quality ammo.

I shoot steel ammo at times (don't think less of me), and when it comes to distance work, I'm often just happy to hit the target most of the time. I do NOT expect a 400 meter target to have decent groups when shooting reduced IPSC sized steel. Not with junk stuff.

[Uncas47]

A wonder trigger won't suddenly turn a bad combination into a sub moa performer. What was the gun doing with this ammo before?

[Stickman]

What was the gun doing with this ammo before?


Great question.

[markm]

I shoot steel ammo at times (don't think less of me),

I love having some steel cased for areas where I can't recover my brass.

[Stickman]

I love having some steel cased for areas where I can't recover my brass.

The desperate scroungers cry big tears when they hear those words.

For the people who worry about extractors breaking, it hasn't happened yet, but walking over to one of my parts boxes to grab another won't make me soil myself when it does happen some day.

[ViniVidivici]

I love having some steel cased for areas where I can't recover my brass.

This has been a TTP of mine for years...

I long for the days of cheap Wolf...

[markm]

This has been a TTP of mine for years...

I long for the days of cheap Wolf...

I was pluging 69gr Sierra into Herter's 62 grain cases using the existing charge. Simple "mexican match" bullet swap. It worked perfectly.

[ViniVidivici]

See, now I feel competlled to go out and shoot some 55's out at 200.

It's been forever...and the only 55gr bullet I load is the Hornady SP (pretty accurate load of 24.5gr H335), all I remember is that it shot nice and flat, didn't drop as much as my standard 62gr FMJ load at that range. I don't think I kept notes on the groups though.

[markm]

See, now I feel competlled to go out and shoot some 55's out at 200.

We recently shot the 100-400 yard steel with some Win Green tip and hand loaded 55gr. After only shooting OTMs for some time, they seemed to do great. Trying to sling 55s to 1000 was a comedy show though. They don't do transonic at all in the bolt gun I used.

[T2C]

There are a lot of factors that affect accuracy, barrel twist rate, barrel length, type of chamber (.223 Wylde or 5.56mm), the size of the red dot or thickness of scope crosshairs, etc. The ability of the shooter plays a role.

I tested ammunition that was issued to people at our agency. I am afraid I do not have 200-yard data for Federal 55g ammunition. I have data I collected at 300 yards for Federal 55g ammunition that may be useful.

I tested ammunition using an Armalite contract carbine chambered in 5.56mm with standard GI trigger. Barrel length is 16", twist rate is 1:9, barrel is chrome lined. Ten shot groups were fired from the prone position, using a hasty sling, with iron sights, small aperture, without sandbags. The barrel had a round count of over 2,000 rounds at the time of the test.

Federal 55g JSP (2953 fps) grouped 6-1/2" at 300 yards. Three ten shot groups were fired with 6-1/2" being the largest.

Federal 55g M193 (3059 fps) grouped 7-1/2" @ 300 yards. Three ten shot groups were fired with 7-1/2" being the largest.

With a good barrel, decent 55g ammunition is capable of shooting 2-1/2 MOA.


On the same day, I shot both types of Federal 55g ammunition out of a Colt HBAR, 20" barrel, 1:7 twist, with 4X scope at 300 yards. I had to use a B-27 silhouette target, because the groups were larger than the 10-1/2" x 10-1/2" SR-1 repair centers I normally use for testing. The Federal 55g JSP and Federal M193 both grouped at 16" or over 5 MOA. I followed up using sandbags for support and shot the same size groups. I removed the scope, repeated the process using iron sights and shot the same size groups. The following day, I tested the ammunition using my other Colt HBAR and logged the same results. Both HBAR's had fewer than 1,000 rounds fired through them at the time of the testing.

We had 392 M-16 rifles we received from the department of the Army and did some casual shooting a few weeks later. The M-16's had thin profile barrels with 1:12 twist. Using Federal M193 we consistently hit a 24" x 48" piece of steel at 400 yards. We did this with a half dozen different rifles. It was really windy, which made for an interesting day.

[Sparepartsbuild]

gaijin - I was shooting an Armalite rifle which is mostly factory. I converted it to a free float hand guard and added a Superlative Arms gas block, but the only internal change is a flat wire buffer spring everything else is just cosmetics. It has a chrome lined barrel, but I forget the rate or twist. I was shooting off a bench and had to use an old pillow I found laying around to prop the hand guard up so the magazine would clear the table top. The ammo was 55 gr FMJ Federal American Eagle.

1168 - My adjustments at 200 yards were an occasional change in elevation, but mostly changes to windage. There was a slight breeze that day and I remember looking through the scope and watching my center dot bounce side to side ever so slightly so I tried to shoot when the breeze went away so I don't know how that may play into things. I guess even with all the trees around the breeze could have been an issue down range.

Uncas47 - This is probably only the third time I shot at 200 yards (last time around 2019) so I don't really remember specifics, but I know it was worst. I remember struggling before to hit a piece of paper about 2' x 3' with the same ammo and rifle in its stock form, but I think I sighted the scope in per the instructions and used the reticle BDC to compensation for distance.

If I missed anyone's questions I am sorry. I don't get to shoot nearly as much as I would like so I know a lot of my issues with a rifle or pistol are fundamentals that I need to work on. I am not trying to become a precision shooter by any means I would just like to make the most of the equipment that I have/can afford and shooting at 200 yards, which is my range's max distance, just seems to be more interesting to me recently. Thanks to everyone who takes the time to read this thread.

[T2C]

If you are shooting at 200 yards, you are doing more than most. Keep trying and you will get the hang of it.

A rifle log is a handy piece of kit. Log light conditions, wind, equipment used, ammunition, etc. for future reference and it will be useful. I suggest keeping track of the total number of rounds fired through the barrel and repairs made during the life of the rifle.

Once the light bulb goes off, you will find the end results quite rewarding.

[ViniVidivici]

Got out and did this today.

This is the new build I'm training up on. Just a basic 16" 1/7 BA barreled gun w/ a PA 2.5x ACSS I'm really starting to love.

Target was a 8" white circle on brown cardboard. 5 shot groups (yes Molon, statistically insignificant. HA!).
Range: 225yds.

Norma factory 55gr FMJ:
8.5" max spread, best 3 in 4.75"

My handloaded Hornady 55gr SP:
Flier put max spread at 7.75", best 3
in 2.00", 4 shots in 3.00"

My handloaded 62gr FMJ:
5.5" max spread, best 3 in 3.00"

So as you can see by this purely anecdotal, statistically insignificant data of mine, you're not going to get the absolute best accuracy out of generic 55gr xm193ish ammo.

Match grade, or handloads that you've developed yourself through a ladder test in YOUR gun, will show you the true potential of your gun and optic combo.

Also, try different weigh bullets. Some barrels just do not like one type or another.

But hell yes, good on ya for getting out that far. Blasting away at paper plates at 10 yards is fun, and doing drills up close is very beneficial, but getting out at 200 and beyond really works your fundamentals. T2C is right, you're already ahead of most.

I'd say decide what bullet weight you want to zero with, then acquire a match grade version of that to fine tune zero.

It just takes alot of practice to get consistent, even at 100 yards. Consistency with position is what gets me most. Rifle dryfire should include getting in and out of, and building, that position.

Lot of small variables in the 4 fundamentals that really show themselves when you're trying to shoot a really tight group.

[Colt Carson]

The closest thing I can relay is that in late 2017 I shot a 10 shot group at 200 yards. S&W AR15 MOE 16" barrel shooting Hornady 55 grain V-Max ammo. Scope was a Leupold fixed 2.5 power. The paper target was 12" square, so the scope’s reticle almost covered the entire target. I couldn’t see the bullseye, so just equally divided the target. The 10 shot group was 4.75". This was off a bench and sandbag rest. I felt it was pretty decent considering the gun/optic, and at the time I hadn’t shot off a rest in many years. The only way I could tell you this is because I still have the pic of the target with the info written on it. Since then, the groups I’ve shot and measured were all at 100 yards.

[1986s4]

Yup. Using generic ammo for precision testing is pointless. It isn't worthless, because you are still training and using your fundamentals, but if you are trying to dial in new equipment it is going to be very limiting.


Since I'm cheap, I'll use any generic bullet to get on paper and semi close to zero'd in to my target when setting up new items (new scope, mount, sights, or whatever). Once I'm pretty close, I'll switch over to higher quality ammo.

I shoot steel ammo at times (don't think less of me), and when it comes to distance work, I'm often just happy to hit the target most of the time. I do NOT expect a 400 meter target to have decent groups when shooting reduced IPSC sized steel. Not with junk stuff.

I just discovered better quality "match ammo".... I used to use 55gr for all of my shooting needs, which is typically 2 gun competition. Now I'm using 55gr for most match stages and 77gr IMI for longer ranges. I use up my steel case stuff on the really short range stages, shoots softer too so better splits..... I sighted in with the 77gr stuff.