View Full Version : Expo Arms M4 RAS Carbine Quad rail
richiecotite
07-12-23, 16:09
Anyone seen this yet? The boys on Reddit posted a link and I ended up ordering one. Been looking for a good quad rail for a 12.5 FSP gun and didn’t like the I beam shape of DD Omega. Picture shows it coming with a single panel. All the expo arms stuff I’ve used has been in spec and gtg. I’ll post an update whenever it gets in.
https://www.primaryarms.com/expo-arms-m4-ras-quad-rail-handguard-carbine-length
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Interesting. They call it "RAS" and it appears to be much like the KAC. I wonder if it's a legit licensed verision. Good price if it's legit.
I just got two of the B&T Quad rails which are pretty nice. They're $120.00. Good to see the quad rails making a small comeback, because I don't like Mlok at all.
I loved mlok, until I started mounting things to it. Now I miss picatinny.
Diamondback
07-12-23, 19:15
Expo is PA's "house brand," they subcontrat with other companies to make things for them. My guess would be P&S whatever they call themselves now if these are any good.
I loved mlok, until I started mounting things to it. Now I miss picatinny.
Same here. I have started the migration back to quad rails.
Expo is PA's "house brand," they subcontrat with other companies to make things for them. My guess would be P&S whatever they call themselves now if these are any good.
Must be like Brownell's is doing.
Same here. I have started the migration back to quad rails.
Sweet music to my ears! Mlok needs to go away!
Eurodriver
07-13-23, 09:11
Pics look right. I could never justify buying KACs when they were laying around for free everywhere, but now that I am old and fat I could use one for sure.
Diamondback
07-13-23, 09:18
Must be like Brownell's is doing.
Midway has their own house-brand too ("AR-Stoner") but it's hazy who their OEM's are, at least Primary seems to have chosen reputable suppliers for most of the Expo line and we know Brownells has subcontracted at least some development to B5 Systems and NoDak Spud on their Retro line.
Expo is PA's "house brand," they subcontrat with other companies to make things for them. My guess would be P&S whatever they call themselves now if these are any good.
I believe ^this^ is correct, I thought that White Label Armory made their stripped uppers, not sure if they made other parts for them as well.
Also, I don't really care if it's Mlok, 1913 rails or keymod, just make it as robust and light as possible, anything over 8lbs for an 5.56 AR is to heavy in my humble opinion.
PA Expo Arms - Uppers and lowers are Mega. BCG's are Microbest. Rails were CMT but not sure if they are doing the aforementioned quads. Barrels are Rosco.
They have the Expo M5 RAS as well.
Looks like I am going to be selling a Centurion 9.5 and 13 inch MLOK rail here soon to fund Operation Return To Quads. :D
They have the Expo M5 RAS as well.
I think I have two of those that I've been keeping for a few years, but I did order the standard carbine model. It will be interesting to see how it is once it arrives.
If these are decent, I think KAC and P&S prices are going to tank, either that or just sit on shelves. Cloning is about to kick back off in higher gear!!
Diamondback
07-13-23, 11:21
I'm gonna be the heretic here and say "Horses for Courses." If you need a robust mount where weight and size are no object, quadrail all the way. If weight, space and minimalism are the priority of the day (like a ASDW or a bugout-bag build) M-Lok has an edge.
The only reason I'm not buying the Expo M5 to complete my M16A4 URG is that I already *have* an M5 brought home by the friend this project is in memory of... I just have to excavate Mt. Deadtree in my storage unit enough to disinter it from its grave under boxes of cookbooks and other stuff.
I think I have two of those that I've been keeping for a few years, but I did order the standard carbine model. It will be interesting to see how it is once it arrives.
If these are decent, I think KAC and P&S prices are going to tank, either that or just sit on shelves. Cloning is about to kick back off in higher gear!!
I paid too much for a few P&S rails because I thought the M4 RAS was going the way of the N4 Colt stock. Now I have two extra carbine Quad rails on the shelf. It's a good problem.
Looking at the non RAS quad rails it does kind of look like the CMT version they had out with the lightening holes in it before their current version. Maybe they are making these too?
Same here. I have started the migration back to quad rails.
I loved mlok, until I started mounting things to it. Now I miss picatinny.
Sweet music to my ears! Mlok needs to go away!
Is this about repeated installation/removal, or set it and forget it? I can easily see how 1913 is easier for the former, but I don't see how MLOK is a problem for the latter.
Is this about repeated installation/removal, or set it and forget it? I can easily see how 1913 is easier for the former, but I don't see how MLOK is a problem for the latter.
For me its neither. I have just found that from an ergonomic standpoint I like a quad rail better. Just fits my hand and grip better. I'm no operator by any stretch of the imagination so take that for what its worth.
For me its neither. I have just found that from an ergonomic standpoint I like a quad rail better. Just fits my hand and grip better. I'm no operator by any stretch of the imagination so take that for what its worth.
That's interesting. What's your glove size? Have you tried a Magpul M-LOK AFG?
Is this about repeated installation/removal, or set it and forget it? I can easily see how 1913 is easier for the former, but I don't see how MLOK is a problem for the latter.
For me it's durability, standardization, and grunt proof useability. I'm fairly mechanical, but I don't find Mloks mounting to be intuitive at all. Nor do I even understand it really or care at this point. I tossed it behind me when PB's Mlok rail section peeled off because of their silly fasteners that aren't grunt proof. He'd mounted it incorrectly probably because you can't see the hardware without seeing the inside of the rail or handguard.
Then, just today, I see a BCM offset light mount in an email add that's Mlok to attach the rail, but Pic for the light. WTF?? You've effectively gone back to pic. That's so stupid it's Southpark material.
I'm just happy I can stop hoarding pic rails because they're making a comeback.
Defaultmp3
07-13-23, 14:03
Then, just today, I see a BCM offset light mount in an email add that's Mlok to attach the rail, but Pic for the light. WTF?? You've effectively gone back to pic. That's so stupid it's Southpark material.Not really. You still get a lighter, slimmer handguard with less rails to catch on things overall.
A BCM QRF is 2.12" in width, an MCMR is 1.5". I would gladly take the slightly more fiddly, one-time M-LOK install to have a much smaller OD, especially factoring in having to deal with lasers (having to wrap the hand all the way around to hit the fire button on the laser with the thumb really stretches the limits of my hands even on a WedgeLock, let alone around a quad rail).
That's really a preference thing. I've NEVER (with the exception of of the original KMR rail that was silly light weight) felt that a handguard's weight made any difference. Carbine Quad rails are around 10 oz, so even if you reduced it by 25%, the gain isn't worth a sub-standard mounting system.
I've never had a snagging issue with Pic. I mostly run KAC panels or Chinese ripoff LaRue clips. I actually like a full handguard. I get it that some guys prefer a slim rail, but I don't.
That's interesting. What's your glove size? Have you tried a Magpul M-LOK AFG?
Well ergonomics are highly subjective and specific to the individual in question. What works for me may not work for anyone else. So debating it on the interwebs is kind of pointless.
Defaultmp3
07-13-23, 14:50
That's really a preference thing. I've NEVER (with the exception of of the original KMR rail that was silly light weight) felt that a handguard's weight made any difference. Carbine Quad rails are around 10 oz, so even if you reduced it by 25%, the gain isn't worth a sub-standard mounting system.
I've never had a snagging issue with Pic. I mostly run KAC panels or Chinese ripoff LaRue clips. I actually like a full handguard. I get it that some guys prefer a slim rail, but I don't.If it's preference, then what makes it stupid? Why does M-LOK need to go away? Just because M-LOK doesn't fulfill any of your needs doesn't mean you need to constantly hate on M-LOK. M-LOK isn't a perfectly replacement for 1913, for sure, and has weaknesses compared to 1913, but it also had its advantages that 1913 cannot match, and is still a great interface system.
Well ergonomics are highly subjective and specific to the individual in question. What works for me may not work for anyone else. So debating it on the interwebs is kind of pointless.
I didn't intend a debate, just an exploration of what works and, to the extent possible, why.
If it's preference, then what makes it stupid? Why does M-LOK need to go away?
Mlok suck balls. It's a shitty mounting system. It's like steering the rail mounting into the stupidity that's RDS mounting on pistols... too many non-standard options. There's a great standard that works in pic. In my opinion, Geissele had it right with the moveable pic sections for those who wanted a slimmer overall handguard. Just put the pics where you need to mount things... as many or as few as you'd like.
Defaultmp3
07-13-23, 16:06
Mlok suck balls. It's a shitty mounting system. It's like steering the rail mounting into the stupidity that's RDS mounting on pistols... too many non-standard options. There's a great standard that works in pic. In my opinion, Geissele had it right with the moveable pic sections for those who wanted a slimmer overall handguard. Just put the pics where you need to mount things... as many or as few as you'd like.What makes M-LOK suck balls? Because it takes a little longer and little more care to install something on? I don't really think having to put a bit more effort into the install is such a huge insurmountable issue, given that it also allows for lower cost, lighter weight, and a slimmer handguard, it's a trade-off I'd gladly make. I'm not moving accessories around every day, my stuff is mounted and then basically never touched.
Nor is it like M-LOK is functionally weaker than 1913; Hell, in the Crane test between M-LOK and KeyMod, one of the Vltor 1913 flashlight mount failed before the M-LOK rail piece failed, where the clamping lug sheered off, while the other five tests' failure modes was the rail piece itself deforming enough so that the flashlight mount was pulled off, yet the rail sections themselves still stayed firmly attached to the handguard.
What makes M-LOK non-standard? AFAIK, and IME, M-LOK accessories works pretty universally, the only real differences tend to be the thickness of the walls, which is typically dictated by whether it's plastic or metal. Gas block interference issues may exist, but that's purely an issue of the ID of the handguard and the size of your gas block; it's basically the same problem as buying a gas block that doesn't fit inside a quad rail handguard. In fact, that's one of the big advantages of M-LOK over KeyMod, M-LOK is licensed by Magpul so you must follow the standard, rather than KeyMod being simply open source and thus people are able to tinker around with it and have compatibility issues.
Sure, the MK1 SMR, Centurion Arms original CMR, LMT LM8, LWRC Modular (ooo, another favorite of yours), Q Q-Sert, they're pretty easy to install rail sections just where you want them... unless you somehow strip that hole, then you're basically shit out of luck for that piece of the handguard, especially for some of the systems that use threaded aluminum instead of a steel insert. And either way, manufacturing costs would be much higher with those, and no one made their system licensable or open source, so that didn't matter anyway, it'd be extremely unlikely to become a standard if only one company is going to be allowed to manufacture it.
So, please, tell me how M-LOK is objectively shitty.
Pics look right. I could never justify buying KACs when they were laying around for free everywhere, but now that I am old and fat I could use one for sure.
GWOT is over and no more being stole and sold cheap on forums....LOL
So, please, tell me how M-LOK is objectively shitty.
I've already posted my issues with it. It's significantly sub-par to pic rail. I don't care if people want to use it and like it. To each their own, but I think it's a stupid solution to a problem that was never a real problem.
That's really a preference thing. I've NEVER (with the exception of of the original KMR rail that was silly light weight) felt that a handguard's weight made any difference. Carbine Quad rails are around 10 oz, so even if you reduced it by 25%, the gain isn't worth a sub-standard mounting system.
I've never had a snagging issue with Pic. I mostly run KAC panels or Chinese ripoff LaRue clips. I actually like a full handguard. I get it that some guys prefer a slim rail, but I don't.
It takes an extra 60 seconds to make sure something is properly mounted, that’s really not substandard. And the weight makes a difference for everyone that does more than bench rest/prone shooting like you.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Geissele had it right with the moveable pic sections for those who wanted a slimmer overall handguard. Just put the pics where you need to mount things... as many or as few as you'd like.
You can do that with M-LOK. There's no requirement to go with MLOK-native mounts at all, it's just an option to shave a bit of weight or get a light a little closer to the rail. So you know where I'm coming from my go-to carbine has a Daniel Defense FSPM Lite Rail but I just got my first M-LOK upper as a lighter alternative; so far I think they will complement each other.
CrowCommand
07-13-23, 18:17
Quad rail master race. Block 2 FSP w/ DD RIS 2 is my go to mid range rig that gets the most love. Shoots a lot softer than my buddys 14.5 with a Midwest Industries mlok rail. Love my 11.5 with MI QRF too…
richiecotite
07-14-23, 07:32
Quad rail master race. Block 2 FSP w/ DD RIS 2 is my go to mid range rig that gets the most love. Shoots a lot softer than my buddys 14.5 with a Midwest Industries mlok rail. Love my 11.5 with MI QRF too…
That’s cuz we all know the picatinny rail is able to tame gas issues, and mlok increases gas, port pressure, and causes ED in men over 30.
But seriously, like others have mentioned, used KAC rails are drying up and increasing in price, and I think most will agree the retail price of it is too damn high. I hope they keep this a regular stock item.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This whole argument reminds me of when guys on the diesel forums would argue which motor oil is best.
This whole argument reminds me of when guys on the diesel forums would argue which motor oil is best.
Its the 1.6liter G16E-GTS turbo straight 3 engine from Toyota, reliability, weight and power in one package.
Are we really still arguing over rails? If so Android is better then the Iphone, and Lee Harvey Oswald actually shot JFK
Also, special case here, I purchased a slick rail 300 black upper. Only a 5-inch barrel and a 4.5" rail. Only one mlok slot on the bottom. Guess what. It's useless as the gas block interferes. That wouldn't have occured with 1913, I tell you what.
CrowCommand
07-14-23, 09:45
That’s cuz we all know the picatinny rail is able to tame gas issues, and mlok increases gas, port pressure, and causes ED in men over 30.
But seriously, like others have mentioned, used KAC rails are drying up and increasing in price, and I think most will agree the retail price of it is too damn high. I hope they keep this a regular stock item.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ha! Didn’t mean to imply the QRF made it softer shooting, but I think a lot of these lightweight rigs aren’t all they’re cracked up to be…. IMO it’s kinda nice having some front end weight to soak up some muzzle rise and felt recoil. To each their own…
Its the 1.6liter G16E-GTS turbo straight 3 engine from Toyota, reliability, weight and power in one package.
Are we really still arguing over rails? If so Android is better then the Iphone, and Lee Harvey Oswald actually shot JFK
Dude. iPhones are the debil. Had to use one as a work phone for several years. Hated that thing with the intensity of a million burning suns. And we all know the CIA killed JFK. Duh.
I love quads. But MLOK has its place too. I think the trend to make MLOK rails as skinny as possible needs to go the way of skinny jeans on men.
Defaultmp3
07-14-23, 10:28
Also, special case here, I purchased a slick rail 300 black upper. Only a 5-inch barrel and a 4.5" rail. Only one mlok slot on the bottom. Guess what. It's useless as the gas block interferes. That wouldn't have occured with 1913, I tell you what.Or, you know, buy a handguard that's got a large enough OD so that there's no interference... which you can do with M-LOK.
M-LOK allows you to **** up if you want. I'm okay with that for the rest of the advantages that M-LOK allows. You just need to do your own due diligence. I agree that 1913 is more foolproof, and easier to deal with. But it's typically heavier, more expensive, has more bulk, and can be more snaggy (unless you use covers, which once again adds to bulk). If you're fine with that, or don't find those issues to impact you, rock on with 1913. That doesn't mean that M-LOK is somehow a bad attachment method, or that 1913 is wildly superior.
This whole argument reminds me of when guys on the diesel forums would argue which motor oil is best.
Rotella, and you will burn in hell if you don't.
Back to the topic at hand, let us not forget that MLOK is cheaper to manufacture than a 1913 rail. I think my all time favorite non 1913 rail was the CMR from Centurion when it first came out (before MLOK). It was slick, had you can use screw holes to mount 1913 slots where needed. It looked pretty much like todays CMR aside from that.
If MLOK were so perfect, the rail tops would have MLOK slots instead of still using 1913.If you want return to zero, Picatinny is still the standard.
Speaking of Picatinny, if any of you were there last week for "the event", I hope we had a chance to talk. I would call it the best of its kind that I've been to. I have no doubt it is going to get a lot of use.
Rotella, and you will burn in hell if you don't.
DING "Amsoil" has entered the chat.
"Uh hey guys, I'm a distributor if you need cheap oil. Hit me up in the DMs"
:D For the record, Rotella.
Or, you know, buy a handguard that's got a large enough OD so that there's no interference... which you can do with M-LOK.
M-LOK allows you to **** up if you want. I'm okay with that for the rest of the advantages that M-LOK allows. You just need to do your own due diligence. I agree that 1913 is more foolproof, and easier to deal with. But it's typically heavier, more expensive, has more bulk, and can be more snaggy (unless you use covers, which once again adds to bulk). If you're fine with that, or don't find those issues to impact you, rock on with 1913. That doesn't mean that M-LOK is somehow a bad attachment method, or that 1913 is wildly superior.
It was a complete upper. It's not the end of the world. Just an annoyance that I can live with, and somewhat expected. Nothing to do with "due diligence", so you can save that. It is what it is.
If MLOK were so perfect, the rail tops would have MLOK slots instead of still using 1913.
Midwest Combat Rail Lightweight has those, but keeps a section of 1913 for the front sight.
Hammer_Man
07-14-23, 14:11
Can we get back to arguing over which lube is best??
Can we get back to arguing over which lube is best??
KY. So I've heard.
Can we get back to arguing over which lube is best??
Froglube!!! :cool:
The price already went up, and it's back ordered. If I wasn't stocked up on Quad rails, I'd pick the B&T over this one.
Full rail review is complete with a bunch of pics in my little slice of M4C...
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?241304-Expo-Arms-M4-RAS-Quad-Rail-Handguard-Carbine-Length-Review&p=3114617#post3114617
Not really. You still get a lighter, slimmer handguard with less rails to catch on things overall.
A BCM QRF is 2.12" in width, an MCMR is 1.5". I would gladly take the slightly more fiddly, one-time M-LOK install to have a much smaller OD, especially factoring in having to deal with lasers (having to wrap the hand all the way around to hit the fire button on the laser with the thumb really stretches the limits of my hands even on a WedgeLock, let alone around a quad rail).
Agreed regarding MLOK. Optics/NV should probably be pushed as far forward as possible in the groove (or just push it forward while tightening the screws even if it seems like there's no give). Thinking about it a VFG might need to be pushed to the rear of an MLOK slot, since recoil would be somewhat offset by your support hand's slight rearward pull while shooting. I also like the more slim feel---and actual dimensions!---of the MLOK. To each his own.
I must add that I do not mount anything on a handguard other than the slot fillers (like the Magpul MLOK single rail panels) and/or a VFG; that's all I put on a handguard, regardless of style. Always use a forward BUIS, as I like redundancy in sighting. Optics go on the upper receiver picatinny rail.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.