View Full Version : Military Acadamy and Affirmative Action?
Averageman
07-18-23, 13:14
So how will Military Acadamies handle admissions with the recent changes in Affirmative Action in Universities?
FromMyColdDeadHand
07-18-23, 15:10
So how will Military Acadamies handle admissions with the recent changes in Affirmative Action in Universities?
From what I understand, the recent SCOTUS decision doesn’t apply to the academies due to the govt desire for inclusiveness and diversity. Totally undermines the whole argument. I don’t understand why they allowed that. If I were a University, I’d say that since we have ROTC programs, we get the same exemptions…
Averageman
07-18-23, 15:56
From what I understand, the recent SCOTUS decision doesn’t apply to the academies due to the govt desire for inclusiveness and diversity. Totally undermines the whole argument. I don’t understand why they allowed that. If I were a University, I’d say that since we have ROTC programs, we get the same exemptions…
I totally believe you, but that really doesn't pass an actual smell test does it.
But then I've seen photos of Female Cadets that appeared to be obese.
I totally believe you, but that really doesn't pass an actual smell test does it.
But then I've seen photos of Female Cadets that appeared to be obese.
There are fat kids joining everywhere. Out of over 20 cadets that we sent to CST, the one ACFT failure so far is a white male. Most of the military is desperate enough to take whatever they can get (not really but it easily appears that way). Fat kids get picked up all day but there is heavy scrutiny on mental instability, depression, anxiety, etc.
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FromMyColdDeadHand
07-18-23, 18:57
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/education/2023/07/13/supreme-court-affirmative-action-military-academies/70409096007/
SCOTUS really splits the baby sometimes. National Security? Wait till they use that gem against the 2A…
Coal Dragger
07-18-23, 19:50
There are fat kids joining everywhere. Out of over 20 cadets that we sent to CST, the one ACFT failure so far is a white male. Most of the military is desperate enough to take whatever they can get (not really but it easily appears that way). Fat kids get picked up all day but there is heavy scrutiny on mental instability, depression, anxiety, etc.
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Well I’d rather take a fat kid who’s bright and not a nut job.
I can program the fat kid’s diet and physical training so he’s no longer a fat kid. Might take longer, but it’s a better result than dealing with an ASVAB waiver with mental health problems just because they’re in better physical shape.
The military is going to have to adjust to the reality of the population they are recruiting from and adjust training schedules and methodology accordingly. Alternatively we can keep failing to hit recruitment goals, and induct retards because they’re fit while shunning otherwise mentally capable overweight kids that need some investment and guidance in getting fit.
Averageman
07-18-23, 20:05
I saw somewhere today that 78% of Military Age Males do not qualify for enlistment.
In real life, that immeadiate disqualification precludes taking the ASVAB by regulation right?
So yeah that pool is getting mighty shallow.
Well I’d rather take a fat kid who’s bright and not a nut job.
I can program the fat kid’s diet and physical training so he’s no longer a fat kid. Might take longer, but it’s a better result than dealing with an ASVAB waiver with mental health problems just because they’re in better physical shape.
The military is going to have to adjust to the reality of the population they are recruiting from and adjust training schedules and methodology accordingly. Alternatively we can keep failing to hit recruitment goals, and induct retards because they’re fit while shunning otherwise mentally capable overweight kids that need some investment and guidance in getting fit.
I meant to clarify my post further but I fully agree. I’d take that one ACFT failure over one of our more in shape guys in a heartbeat, even if the event is a five mile run. He’s a decent kid, he just needs to lose some weight.
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Coal Dragger
07-18-23, 21:40
That leads into a discussion about how broken and stupid promotions can be in the .mil.
Just because Chongo can run fast and do a shit load of pull ups, and then score expert on the rifle range, it doesn’t mean his retarded ass needs to be in charge of anyone or anything. Yet here he is a 1st Sgt struggling to read a promotion warrant or provide effective leadership, because hey he can pick up really heavy shit and run fast!
That leads into a discussion about how broken and stupid promotions can be in the .mil.
Just because Chongo can run fast and do a shit load of pull ups, and then score expert on the rifle range, it doesn’t mean his retarded ass needs to be in charge of anyone or anything. Yet here he is a 1st Sgt struggling to read a promotion warrant or provide effective leadership, because hey he can pick up really heavy shit and run fast!
Leadership: "He's an exemplary Marine, a leader among leaders, a physically fit specimen."
Grunts: "He's a moron who is also a piece of shit who can put out a 300 PFT."
Leadership: "Yes."
I saw somewhere today that 78% of Military Age Males do not qualify for enlistment.
In real life, that immeadiate disqualification precludes taking the ASVAB by regulation right?
So yeah that pool is getting mighty shallow.
Anyone can take the ASVAB after getting through a couple gates, so some of the DQs don't show up until well after.
Well I’d rather take a fat kid who’s bright and not a nut job.
I can program the fat kid’s diet and physical training so he’s no longer a fat kid. Might take longer, but it’s a better result than dealing with an ASVAB waiver with mental health problems just because they’re in better physical shape.
The military is going to have to adjust to the reality of the population they are recruiting from and adjust training schedules and methodology accordingly. Alternatively we can keep failing to hit recruitment goals, and induct retards because they’re fit while shunning otherwise mentally capable overweight kids that need some investment and guidance in getting fit.
I meant to clarify my post further but I fully agree. I’d take that one ACFT failure over one of our more in shape guys in a heartbeat, even if the event is a five mile run. He’s a decent kid, he just needs to lose some weight.
"I'd rather go down the river with seven studs than a hundred shitheads." Charlie Beckwith (founder of Delta)
"I'd rather have four quarters than a hundred pennies." Dunno, but good quote.
I love the army's and navy's plan for the pre-basic/boot 'fat camp.' Absolutely give me someone who otherwise qualifies, has a good attitude, and wants to be there over someone who doesn't, or over someone who can run an 18-minute 3-miler and do 20 pulls but is selfish, not a team-player, bad attitude, etc.
"He's got guts, and guts is enough...." Gunnery Sgt Hartman, Full Metal Jacket.
Issues with recruit physical fitness aren't exactly new. I assume every branch has similar practices, but "in my day" physically unsat Marine Corps boots would get dropped from training into Physical Conditioning Platoon. I hear all one does at PCP is diet and exercise 24/7.
We picked up a guy who had been dropped at week "X", I seem to recall he spent a long time (like 6-8 weeks) in PCP then joined our platoon at our week "X" to continue his training. He was still a diet private when we picked him up but he was able to pass the physical requirements. His boot camp was just waaay longer than most. As I recall he said that PCP can last as long as the recruit is willing, continues to train, and is making progress.
Averageman
07-19-23, 08:13
Anyone can take the ASVAB after getting through a couple gates, so some of the DQs don't show up until well after.
As a former Recruiter, they taught me to Pre-Qualify applicants.
So you went through the Weight, Legal Charges and Education Level, if they failed either of the three pre-qual's we were told to stop processing right there.
Any further processing, he is recorded, if he's recorded the numbers start working against the Recruiter.
You could actually get in trouble for sending a fat kid to MEPPS.
That was thirty years ago, but that's how it worked.
But that's neither here nor there, the question to me becomes how do we hand out these prestigious positions?
I think the only answer is merit and let the Chips Fall where they may.
This is essentially a free ride to a very good school, with the understanding that they will serve.
I know of only one exception to graduating an academy and not following on to serve in the Military.
As a former Recruiter, they taught me to Pre-Qualify applicants.
So you went through the Weight, Legal Charges and Education Level, if they failed either of the three pre-qual's we were told to stop processing right there.
Any further processing, he is recorded, if he's recorded the numbers start working against the Recruiter.
You could actually get in trouble for sending a fat kid to MEPPS.
That was thirty years ago, but that's how it worked.
One thing I am learning now is how much has changed since I got out. If I was not teaching SOF medics/corpsmen, I would have no idea. 99% of my peers/friends are out, one friend is a captain Navy, O6) so he keeps me in the loop, but same thing: so much has changed since I have been in.
Averageman
07-19-23, 09:21
One thing I am learning now is how much has changed since I got out. If I was not teaching SOF medics/corpsmen, I would have no idea. 99% of my peers/friends are out, one friend is a captain Navy, O6) so he keeps me in the loop, but same thing: so much has changed since I have been in.
Trust me, no one wanted Recruiting Duty.
I had an ASI that precluded me from going to the Drill Sergeant Academy and out of nowhere comes Recruiter Duty.
And I couldn't sell anything to anybody, I was the worlds worst Recruiter and always in trouble. I made E-7 out there and went right back to Tanks.
Trust me, no one wanted Recruiting Duty.
I had an ASI that precluded me from going to the Drill Sergeant Academy and out of nowhere comes Recruiter Duty.
And I couldn't sell anything to anybody, I was the worlds worst Recruiter and always in trouble. I made E-7 out there and went right back to Tanks.
I hate selling. Hate it. I am a horrible salesman. I would suck on recruiting duty. My father? He loved it. He did two recruiting tours, back to back; one a 'regular' recruiter, one an officer recruiter. It is a significant crossroads in the Marines; your choices are very limited (recruiting, I&I, drill), and failure at that stage is a career ender. I imagine the army is similar.
One thing I am learning now is how much has changed since I got out. If I was not teaching SOF medics/corpsmen, I would have no idea. 99% of my peers/friends are out, one friend is a captain Navy, O6) so he keeps me in the loop, but same thing: so much has changed since I have been in.
Do you have anything to do with SOCM? My boss is creating some type of program between them and Ragged Edge Solutions I think.
I hate selling. Hate it. I am a horrible salesman. I would suck on recruiting duty. My father? He loved it. He did two recruiting tours, back to back; one a 'regular' recruiter, one an officer recruiter. It is a significant crossroads in the Marines; your choices are very limited (recruiting, I&I, drill), and failure at that stage is a career ender. I imagine the army is similar.
I'm not sure about failure to make 7, most just about everyone will have to do drill, AIT instructor, or recruiting.
Do you have anything to do with SOCM? My boss is creating some type of program between them and Ragged Edge Solutions I think.
Some, the trauma III bloc of SOCM. Most of my stuff is with the SFMS (18D) portion, though. Edited to add, Duke is doing more collaborative training and education with them re: trauma, but we're not a SOCM clinical site.
RES doing contract instructing? It seems like about half the instructors are active duty, a quarter are contractors, and a quarter are civil service.
Some, the trauma III bloc of SOCM. Most of my stuff is with the SFMS (18D) portion, though. Edited to add, Duke is doing more collaborative training and education with them re: trauma, but we're not a SOCM clinical site.
RES doing contract instructing? It seems like about half the instructors are active duty, a quarter are contractors, and a quarter are civil service.
Moreso I think that they’re advising. It’s not for initial training though, it’s a bridge program to get 18Ds that are ETS’ing an expedited path to higher civilian medical qualifications. I don’t know much about it, he just asked if I’d heard of them and I had, so he said they’re working to set something up. He just toured some part of the 18D schoolhouse with RES and some of our university faculty I think.
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Moreso I think that they’re advising. It’s not for initial training though, it’s a bridge program to get 18Ds that are ETS’ing an expedited path to higher civilian medical qualifications. I don’t know much about it, he just asked if I’d heard of them and I had, so he said they’re working to set something up. He just toured some part of the 18D schoolhouse with RES and some of our university faculty I think.
SOCMs are NREMTP and ATP qual'd when they get out of the schoolhouse. Right now they have a somewhat expedited path to PA school at Wake Forest (I am working on that here), and med school at WVU. If they can get more things like that. I know that when the 18D/SOIDC guys finish they get a BS (I think) from Uniformed Services Univ which gets them the undergrad credentials they need for PA or MD.
I hope they get traction. A lot of those guys get frustrated because there isn't a civilian 'home' for them; jack of all trades, master of none kind of thing. I think the more places that can help the better.
The SFMS guys were here yesterday and today for one of my trauma classes; they'll be here for a meeting on Friday about their clinical rotations, and I am taking a bunch of our folks down in a month for a tour of the schoolhouse.
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