View Full Version : Gas To The Face Shooting Suppressed Causing Cancer
The video is mainly about tuning a Sharps adjustable BCG but at 15:50 he mentions that while at the SIG academy he says he learned of a lawsuit by former British SAS against the British gov. claiming gas-to-the-face- while shooting suppressed is causing cancer.
This may be old news but it was new to me. Anyway it's at 15:50 in the video below.
https://youtu.be/k4l3Eas5ZJw?si=jP6cupKzGgezHnXM&t=950
Most every photo of SAS I've ever seen, training or on a raid they were wearing gas masks. Flash bangs and gas is how they roll.
I wouldn't doubt for a minute the fumes are toxic. The larger questions would be regarding how much exposure it takes.
That shit is nasty. I can't believe this hasn't been a larger concern before. Shit gets in your eyes and nose, etc. yuck.
Remember, according to California (Prop 65) Almonds and Coffee are cancerous, never mind that the amount needed to cause it are physically impossible to consume said amount of either. I am by no means an expert but I work in the radiation/ cancer treatment equipment space, and honestly genetics and overall health are far more indicators for cancer then the environment you put yourself in. That being said, after working in an indoor range for 4+ years, I'm very big on de-lead soaps, and keeping my drink/ water away from the training area and general lead awareness as I've gotten older.
Remember, according to California (Prop 65) Almonds and Coffee are cancerous, never mind that the amount needed to cause it are physically impossible to consume said amount of either. I am by no means an expert but I work in the radiation/ cancer treatment equipment space, and honestly genetics and overall health are far more indicators for cancer then the environment you put yourself in. That being said, after working in an indoor range for 4+ years, I'm very big on de-lead soaps, and keeping my drink/ water away from the training area and general lead awareness as I've gotten older.
What soaps do you recommend for lead removal?
What soaps do you recommend for lead removal?
In the truck or range bag for my hands after pistol drills- www.amazon.com/Remover-Wipes-count-wipes-canister/dp/B01633BXLM/ref=asc_df_B01633BXLM/?tag=&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309832782859&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=3564195312865222696&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9018898&hvtargid=pla-568057226576&ref=&adgrpid=70155173188&th=1
At home, or at the cabin after a day of shooting- www.amazon.com/LEAD-RMVR-D-LEAD-MfrPartNo-4222ES-008/dp/B00EV8NAX6/ref=asc_df_B00EV8NAX6/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312003160299&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=3564195312865222696&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9018898&hvtargid=pla-570407621273&th=1
In the truck or range bag for my hands after pistol drills- www.amazon.com/Remover-Wipes-count-wipes-canister/dp/B01633BXLM/ref=asc_df_B01633BXLM/?tag=&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309832782859&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=3564195312865222696&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9018898&hvtargid=pla-568057226576&ref=&adgrpid=70155173188&th=1
At home, or at the cabin after a day of shooting- www.amazon.com/LEAD-RMVR-D-LEAD-MfrPartNo-4222ES-008/dp/B00EV8NAX6/ref=asc_df_B00EV8NAX6/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312003160299&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=3564195312865222696&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9018898&hvtargid=pla-570407621273&th=1Thank you very much.
Remember, according to California (Prop 65) Almonds and Coffee are cancerous, never mind that the amount needed to cause it are physically impossible to consume said amount of either. I am by no means an expert but I work in the radiation/ cancer treatment equipment space, and honestly genetics and overall health are far more indicators for cancer then the environment you put yourself in. That being said, after working in an indoor range for 4+ years, I'm very big on de-lead soaps, and keeping my drink/ water away from the training area and general lead awareness as I've gotten older.
Yep, I wince when I see people eating, drinking, or pulling on big stogies at the range. Aerosolized lead is not your friend.
ETA: I really only shoot my bolt gun suppressed these days. It benefits the most from a can and I don't have to deal with gas pouring out of the ejection port and charging handle.
Yep, I wince when I see people eating, drinking, or pulling on big stogies at the range. Aerosolized lead is not your friend.
ETA: I really only shoot my bolt gun suppressed these days. It benefits the most from a can and I don't have to deal with gas pouring out of the ejection port and charging handle.
So full discloser, I don't yet actually own any suppressors. I am on a family trust, with someone who does own suppressors and is a FFL. I've shot a lot of guns suppressed, not an expert, but feel like I have a good sense of whats going on with suppressed weapons. I too hate a ton of blow back to the face and try to avoid it at all costs, but understand that even a gas busting charging handle and a Bootleg de-gassing BCG doesn't take all of it out of your face with certain Cans, you're going to get carbon whether you like it or not, but taking carbon off my hands at the range before having a beer and burger seems obvious.
Thank you very much.
You are welcome Sir. I only apply to this after taking so many classes that people have taught me that the carbon from Winchester White Box probably doesn't go well with my favorite beer and Buffalo chicken sandwich after a day off shooting.
Remember, according to California (Prop 65) Almonds and Coffee are cancerous, never mind that the amount needed to cause it are physically impossible to consume said amount of either.
I bought some new P95 filters for my 3m respirator, because of the forest fire smoke here. They had Prop65 stickers on them.
Wonder if this issue was a driver behind the flow through technology like the Huxwerx?
Wonder if this issue was a driver behind the flow through technology like the Huxwerx?
Good question, and I'm kinda shocked they don't use that as part of their ad campaign. List the toxins that are escaping in the gas, and show people what happens with a can that has high backpressure.
Sig has talked about this when they were coming out with their higher-flow cans. They said they developed some sort of rig to capture and test gas that comes from anywhere but the muzzle. It sounded like reducing gas face was something they felt they needed for current or future contract solicitations, so they needed to quantify it in their development process, and then used the topic in their marketing.
I remember watching several OSS ads/YouTube videos specifically addressing the health benefit aspect of using their cans if you shoot a lot. That was before they changed name to Huxwrx, and before I bought a couple of their cans.
I'll see if I can dig up the videos and post them.
Here's one of the videos I saw. I think there was another, but it's basically the same stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri1E0K91-74
They should ban cans on gas guns!!! :cool: C'mon CDC!!!
Diamondback
09-05-23, 09:44
They should ban cans on gas guns!!! :cool: C'mon CDC!!!
Their simpler fix would be to just ban gas-operated guns period, with or without cans.
Their simpler fix would be to just ban gas-operated guns period, with or without cans.
I like your style!
Piston guns prevent cancer?
Diamondback
09-05-23, 11:57
I like your style!
Speaking from experience growing up among them and being taught their ways firsthand by them alongside their own children: There is NOTHING too dark, too cynical or too underhanded for the Criminal Misallocations of Viable Organs we call the Gov Bureaucracy sector, aka the "Little Eichmanns."
In fact, many of them are functional psychopaths for whom the opportunity to ruin some pissant prole's day in every way imaginable is what they get out of bed in the morning for. You know it's a bad place when the Functional Sociopaths are relatively the "good" guys...
There's no lack of volatile potentially carcinogenic chems exposed to when shooting, cleaning, etc guns. Can't say I have done a great job of mitigating exposure there. I recall well the old indoor ranges in the NE without any air movement, much less OSHA approved air movement systems, usually a few guys smoking while shooting, cleaning solvents, etc. Good times...
I did pay attention to lead levels when I was shooting a lot in old indoor ranges and tested ok, always recommend shooters test lead level periodically. I also went with OSS can.
Diamondback
09-05-23, 12:30
There's no lack of volatile potentially carcinogenic chems exposed to when shooting, cleaning, etc guns. Can't say I have done a great job of mitigating exposure there. I recall well the old indoor ranges in the NE without any air movement, much less OSHA approved air movement systems, usually a few guys smoking while shooting, cleaning solvents, etc. Good times...
All things you can count on them weaponizing as another part of our Death By a Thousand Cuts, just they haven't come up next in the batting order yet.
Piston guns prevent cancer?
One would already be brain damaged to buy one in the first place.
Piston guns prevent cancer?
Yes, and according to Fauci from early 2021 getting the vaccine makes you 100% immune from ever getting Covid...
Yes, and according to Fauci from early 2021 getting the vaccine makes you 100% immune from ever getting Covid...
JeezUS...was just making a joke. Can't go one dang thread without something political.
Diamondback
09-05-23, 18:02
JeezUS...was just making a joke. Can't go one dang thread without something political.
The problem is for all our jokes there's some human-shaped piss-stain occupying a CDC/OSHA/Other Alphabet Soup desk really thinking "this is a good idea, DO IT!"
JeezUS...was just making a joke. Can't go one dang thread without something political.
Mine was also a joke, for sure a political one
DancingInAshes
09-06-23, 12:32
This is why I went with an OSS 762 as my first can. It's a great can for most scenarios. It lives on my 300 blackout home defense gun, but I also use it on my 5.56 main rifle and my AR10 DMR rig. Several friends of mine got suppressors before me, and all I'll say is that I don't envy people using high backpressure cans on any kind of semi-auto. After some gassy shooting sessions, I made the choice to go with an OSS so I could avoid that.
If you need your 300 blackout rig to be the quietest ninja gun in the world, don't get an OSS can. But if you just want your can to make your 300 blackout hearing safe in the event you have to deploy it indoors to protect yourself and your family, then the OSS can is fine.
If you plan on fighting in pitch black conditions against near-peer forces who have nightvision, then stick with a Surefire can because they have the best flash reduction at night. Keep in mind what an unlikely occurrence that's going to be, and that even the Surefire flash is going to be somewhat bright to anyone wearing nods.
Geeeez, almost everything causes cancer FFS
been a while since I have been on here....a few things
- I found out eventually, but when shooting suppressed with a direct gas gun - non-piston - that I would get blinding sinus headaches the next day. eventually narrowed it down to the shooting of suppressed guns.
- piston guns will still fart in your face, albeit it slightly less than a direct gas gun. this was proven with high speed video
- flow through suppressors help big time
- don't forget to not only look at the MSDS/MDS for the ammo and primers, but also any brand of lube you are using, as well as cleaners. If you have any residual cleaner in the system, lube, you're breathing that in also when shooting suppressed.
Lead isn't the only danger. I have never experienced it, but a co-worker did - chelation therapy isn't fun at all. Blood lead levels are a snapshot of what is in your blood, not your bones which is where lead ends up if you have a steady -even if not high- blood lead concentration. If you shoot/operate an indoor range a lot, get your blood lead level tested every 4 mos, outdoors every 6.
Boltgun
My brother's issued HK416 was miserable to shoot suppressed full auto, so it's not just DI guns. I am aware the can makes a huge difference and have no idea which one his department was using.
Andy
My brother's issued HK416 was miserable to shoot suppressed full auto, so it's not just DI guns. I am aware the can makes a huge difference and have no idea which one his department was using.
Andy
I think there is a common misconception in the firearm community that a high back pressure can causes gas to the face mainly via the gas tube. So, the reasoning goes, if you get a piston gun, or mitigate the gas impulse in DI gun via a restricted gas tube or adjustable gas bloc, you will also mitigate gas to the face. Unfortunately this is not the case at all in my experience, especially during a high volume of fire. The majority of gas to the face is caused by gas traveling back down the barrel between shots in a self loading rifle.
It is true that slowing the cyclic rate on a DI or piston gun does allow a tiny bit more of the gas to escape through the muzzle, but really the best way to do this is to use a low back pressure suppressor.
I bought 2 identically configured Sionics 11.5" uppers. I set one up fully choked down with a BRT gas tube (0.057" IIRC) and a direct threaded Turbo K suppressor, the other has Sionics "standard" gas port and an OSS 5.56 suppressor. Both use A5 extensions with A5H2 buffers, and eject to 4 o'clock. And only one of the two dirties up the rounds in the mag after firing a couple of rounds. I'll let you guess which one.
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