View Full Version : BOHICA: Government Vaxx mandate coming back?
Ask yourself this... IF .gov wasn't going to bring the "man-date" back, then why are they NOW petitioning the courts to drop the injunction on the previous one???
This article is TWO DAYS OLD. This is new news everyone.
https://www.fedweek.com/fedweek/administration-again-asks-high-court-to-end-vaccine-mandate-case/
The Justice Department again has asked the U.S. Supreme Court to end a suit over the Biden administration’s now-lifted Coronavirus vaccination mandate for federal employees, while the high court has signaled that it could decide on the issue soon.
The Justice Department’s latest request came in response to a motion by the group bringing the suit, Feds for Medical Freedom, to allow a federal district judge to consider the merits of their claim that the mandate exceeded a President’s authority over the federal workforce. That motion in turn was in response to the administration’s motion to dismiss the case as moot.
A decision on the underlying issue of the limits of a President’s powers over federal workers could have wide effect. A federal judge issued a preliminary injunction against the mandate just as agencies were to begin enforcing it, on grounds that the challenge was likely to succeed. At issue now is whether the judge should be allowed to conduct a full examination.
The focus of the suit has been on the procedural question of whether the challenge had to first be brought through the MSPB process; the full Fifth Circuit federal appeals court ruled in the spring that the case could be taken directly into federal court.
The issue before the high court is also is one of legal procedure involving standards for declaring a case moot. The Justice Department most recently again asserted that there is no “live controversy” for a court to decide and that “the same policy cannot be reasonably expected to recur.”
In response to the group’s argument that the administration delayed lifting the mandate until getting a decision from the appeals court, the Justice Department argued that Biden acted “for reasons independent of litigation, in the good-faith exercise of his constitutional and statutory powers.”
The high court meanwhile has scheduled the case for a “conference” September 26, a meeting at which the justices decide which cases they will hear.
I’ll pass again TYVM.
Anyone putting this crap into their body would be better off with a Smith & Wesson with one cartridge.
Even my institution, which was as die-hard pro-vax as they come, dropped the vax requirement. In a statement they said, paraphrasing, 'because of the number of employees who were vaccinated, the number who had COVID (and therefore some level of natural immunity), and the general decrease in M&M, (we) no longer see any need to require the vaccination.' More and more physicians have come out against it and the body of evidence has been mounting.
Even my institution, which was as die-hard pro-vax as they come, dropped the vax requirement. In a statement they said, paraphrasing, 'because of the number of employees who were vaccinated, the number who had COVID (and therefore some level of natural immunity), and the general decrease in M&M, (we) no longer see any need to require the vaccination.' More and more physicians have come out against it and the body of evidence has been mounting.
Common sense will not prevail in reference to the lawsuit that I linked if .gov wins. My immediate concern here are government workers and contractors. We're talking millions of people and employers that will have NO CHOICE but to comply or be fired. Religious/moral objection my @$$. Very little waivers were granted last time. Probably less than 5% of the ones who applied were granted.
"Government contractor" basically means any company doing business directly with .gov.. That's a VERY broad brush. Most fortune 500 companies do business with .gov under contract. Now add the actual feds AND... The military... AGAIN.
God I hope the SCOTUS sees the motive in the request for the case to be dropped. If it is, the SECOND the ink hits the paper a new mandate will be issued. I hope that I am wrong.
Anyone putting this crap into their body would be better off with a Smith & Wesson with one cartridge.
But I saw an article that said Madurna's president sees the corona shot will be like the annual flu vaccination. At this point NO vaccines are acceptable for anyone in my family including pets. FUKK THEM!
I’m gonna be a “No.” this time. We’ll see what that leads to in due time I guess. :(
SomeOtherGuy
09-14-23, 15:37
No one in their right mind should take any future shot or other vax that the government offers or pushes.
Hopefully the pile of dead bodies and long lists of disabled from the first round will be enough to convince people to say NO. Enough .gov employees saying NO will stop any new mandate in its tracks. Good luck running .gov missing half of more of your employees and unable to hire any replacements.
I know too many people who took 2-4 shots the first time round and still got sick with Covid multiple times, often very sick. Many of them recognize the failure and won't voluntarily take any new shots. Some of them recognize the other health problems caused by the shots.
No one in their right mind should take any future shot or other vax that the government offers or pushes.
Hopefully the pile of dead bodies and long lists of disabled from the first round will be enough to convince people to say NO. Enough .gov employees saying NO will stop any new mandate in its tracks. Good luck running .gov missing half of more of your employees and unable to hire any replacements.
I know too many people who took 2-4 shots the first time round and still got sick with Covid multiple times, often very sick. Many of them recognize the failure and won't voluntarily take any new shots. Some of them recognize the other health problems caused by the shots.
I’m in that boat and have extensive documentation in my medical records. If they try to override my medical provider on the subject, I will sue. :mad:
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-14-23, 16:21
But I saw an article that said Madurna's president sees the corona shot will be like the annual flu vaccination. At this point NO vaccines are acceptable for anyone in my family including pets. FUKK THEM!
This is the biggest problem to come out of COVID, that people have lost even more faith in the govt and that when there is an actual dangerous pandemic, we will lose weeks or months because of that lack of trust. That could cost tens of thousands of lives. Literally a "sky is falling' and yelling wolf story parable. Besides the pandemic, if it get people to drop even more common vaccines, that is a real problem. I'm not talking about a flu shot, I'm talking about the more straighforward vaccines.
When they announced the vaccine, I thought that people would be fighting over getting it first.
I'm not saying 'no', but I'll only take jabs if I see a clear benefit, and I don't see one right now. It is as wrong to say 'never' as it is to say "yes to everthing".
Not a chance. I didn't take the last series, and won't take the next. I feel worst for the military guys who have no choice.
I didn't the first time and won't this time.
Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
That's gonna be a no from me dawg.
fauci divulging
https://twitter.com/RealJamesWoods/status/1701822004347994226?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
SomeOtherGuy
09-14-23, 17:58
This is the biggest problem to come out of COVID, that people have lost even more faith in the govt and that when there is an actual dangerous pandemic, we will lose weeks or months because of that lack of trust. That could cost tens of thousands of lives. Literally a "sky is falling' and yelling wolf story parable. Besides the pandemic, if it get people to drop even more common vaccines, that is a real problem. I'm not talking about a flu shot, I'm talking about the more straighforward vaccines.
I would estimate 25-35% of the population has lost any remaining faith in "public health" and literally will not believe anything said as a claimed "public health" measure. And with good reason, since the Covid-19 pandemic proved that nearly all of what .gov said was wrong, with a very large portion of it knowingly false at the time stated. Not only about the clotshots, but the pointlessness of masking - which Fauci and other figures initially said was worthless, before doing a 180 for entirely political reasons - and the entire Dem / Deep State apparatus preventing a quarantine focused on flights from China back in February 2020 when it likely would have made a HUGE difference in limiting spread of the virus.
I'm not sure if there have been any active pandemics stopped or even appreciably slowed by a legitimate vaccine. I thought the cause of the Iditarod race, the 1925 serum run to Nome (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1925_serum_run_to_Nome) might have been such an example, but the leftist wikipedia article makes it unclear whether there was any public health benefit after all that drama.
I trusted vaccines entirely, as a class, before the Covid-19 pandemic / political op, but since seeing the blatant falsehoods on the Covid vaxxes I've done more reading and now question most other vaccines as well. Some of them may be reasonably effective and reasonably safe, some may be effective but unsafe, and some are probably both ineffective and unsafe. Then there's vaccines that are likely irrelevant, such as the polio vaccines, which have only a loose correlation with the illness named polio - that illness now appears to be a result of chemical poisoning from pesticides that were commonly used on fruit from the 1890's through the later 20th Century, which were discontinued in the developed world around the same time as the polio vaccines were rolled out, but entirely unconnected to that.
My point being - and knowing this is a bridge too far for many readers - we should question all vaccines, not just the Covid ones but literally all of them, and ask for clean sheet review of their need, safety and effectiveness, without relying on the appropriately nicknamed "turtles all the way down" approach where all past vaccines are assumed to be completely safe, and new ones are tested only by reference to past ones, with deliberate ignorance of whole classes of harmful side effects.
tl;dr: MMR is maybe worth taking, tetanus if you get a deep wound, and other than that I would avoid most or all other vaccines, assuming you live in a developed country with reasonable sanitation and clean water.
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-14-23, 18:10
In one regard. I’m glad to hear that there are people out there that question vaccines in general now. I’m just sad to see that it’s “the good guys.“ Frankly to me the most depressing thing about Covid is that it didn’t end up being as big of an evolutionary test for intelligence that I thought it was going to be in the beginning. Saying that the polio vaccine doesn’t cure polio is bat shit crazy. And yes, vaccines stop the spread of diseases. They don’t stop them from the very beginning because the technique of making them in the past has taken too long. The fact that we don’t have measles mumps, rubella, polio smallpox, and even meningitis running rampant through the population is pretty much proof.
This is just another example of our country, becoming a 50-50 everything is partisan politics, stupidity fest.
Like I said, the most dangerous thing to come out of Covid, is this total lack of trust in our health system anymore.
In one regard. I’m glad to hear that there are people out there that question vaccines in general now. I’m just sad to see that it’s “the good guys.“ Frankly to me the most depressing thing about Covid is that it didn’t end up being as big of an evolutionary test for intelligence that I thought it was going to be in the beginning. Saying that the polio vaccine doesn’t cure polio is bat shit crazy. And yes, vaccines stop the spread of diseases. They don’t stop them from the very beginning because the technique of making them in the past has taken too long. The fact that we don’t have measles mumps, rubella, polio smallpox, and even meningitis running rampant through the population is pretty much proof.
This is just another example of our country, becoming a 50-50 everything is partisan politics, stupidity fest.
Like I said, the most dangerous thing to come out of Covid, is this total lack of trust in our health system anymore.
The government and public health authorities had the opportunity to not make liars of themselves. They just couldn’t resist the power trip and political limelight. They have no one but themselves to blame!
SomeOtherGuy
09-14-23, 18:38
In one regard. I’m glad to hear that there are people out there that question vaccines in general now. I’m just sad to see that it’s “the good guys.“ Frankly to me the most depressing thing about Covid is that it didn’t end up being as big of an evolutionary test for intelligence that I thought it was going to be in the beginning. Saying that the polio vaccine doesn’t cure polio is bat shit crazy. And yes, vaccines stop the spread of diseases. They don’t stop them from the very beginning because the technique of making them in the past has taken too long. The fact that we don’t have measles mumps, rubella, polio smallpox, and even meningitis running rampant through the population is pretty much proof.
https://www.midwesterndoctor.com/p/why-do-vaccines-consistently-fail
search text, first hit for "polio"
https://www.midwesterndoctor.com/p/what-are-the-risks-and-benefits-of
search text, second hit for "polio"
This was one easy source for a more detailed explanation, but you can find a similar theory in many places.
This is not a subject where useful knowledge will come from a couple minutes of internet sparring. If you care, you need to read up for many, many hours. If that's not an interest, I guess you will go with your pre-existing biases, whatever those may be. But if nothing else, recognize that the "medical establishment" and its "expert opinion" has been shown to be wrong (misleading, inaccurate, substantially incomplete, or sometimes knowingly false) in so many cases of the last 10-20 years that it's dumber to rely on it than to assume it's frequently wrong. Many, many health issues predating and unrelated to Covid-19.
Also, when looking at Covid-19 vaccine doses by education level, the greatest resistance was found among people holding a Ph.D. level education.
But more surprising is the breakdown in vaccine hesitancy by level of education. It finds that the association between hesitancy and education level follows a U-shaped curve with the highest hesitancy among those least and most educated. People with a master’s degree had the least hesitancy, and the highest hesitancy was among those holding a Ph.D.
What’s more, the paper found that in the first five months of 2021, the largest decrease in hesitancy was among the least educated — those with a high school education or less. Meanwhile, hesitancy held constant in the most educated group; by May, those with Ph.Ds were the most hesitant group.
https://unherd.com/thepost/the-most-vaccine-hesitant-education-group-of-all-phds/?=frpo
Election years, I mean selection years are plandemic years.
Expect to see a state of accelerated disorder between now and 11/2024.
I trusted vaccines entirely, as a class, before the Covid-19 pandemic / political op, but since seeing the blatant falsehoods on the Covid vaxxes I've done more reading and now question most other vaccines as well.
Yep, I am in that boat as well.
Very simple, any .gov vax mandate will be completely ignored. Given the absolute lies, falsehoods, and deception perpetrated by the FDA, NIH, and HHS, with covid 1.0, only completely ignorant fools would subject themselves to anything the .gov supports/mandates. Oh, and FJB and his entire administration and supporters.
The government and public health authorities had the opportunity to not make liars of themselves. They just couldn’t resist the power trip and political limelight. They have no one but themselves to blame!
From the public health perspective, I think it's pretty much "Good initiative, poor judgment." People I know in public health have walked back their original thoughts about the vaccine, and it's all evolutionary, based on emerging information and data. That's cool, I get that. The ones that took me off are the ones who stick to their guns regardless of the emerging data.
From the public health perspective, I think it's pretty much "Good initiative, poor judgment." People I know in public health have walked back their original thoughts about the vaccine, and it's all evolutionary, based on emerging information and data. That's cool, I get that. The ones that took me off are the ones who stick to their guns regardless of the emerging data.
They shouldn’t be so gullible as public health professionals. The percentage who didn’t buy into the big covid con is incredibly small. I sure hope they don’t have their blinders on next time, but color me a skeptic. :(
From the public health perspective, I think it's pretty much "Good initiative, poor judgment." People I know in public health have walked back their original thoughts about the vaccine, and it's all evolutionary, based on emerging information and data. That's cool, I get that. The ones that took me off are the ones who stick to their guns regardless of the emerging data.
I don't think it's entirely accurate to say emerging data. Much of the data existed for years.
Social and conventional media leadership ran an incredibly successful campaign to both discredit anyone who questioned the vaccine and to massively exaggerate its effectiveness against Covid.
Two people I know well were vaxxed/boosted/boosted and managed to avoid Covid until this summer. Covid hit them just as hard as people who got it in early 2020. Those of us who had Covid previously get the symptoms of a bad cold/mild flu from Covid now.
My son was in the Army where the vaccine and boosters were and remain effectively mandatory and in his experience every soldier he knew got Covid. He got no more or less sick from Covid as his friends who were never vaxxed.
I believe evidence will show the vaccine reduced the severity of Covid symptoms in the segments who were especially vulnerable (i.e. the aged), slightly slowed the spread of Covid, but had little to no affect on the more virulent but less severe severe varients that followed the first wave of Covid.
Andy
I'm confused as to why we are still treating Covid like the damn boogey man. For people with compromised immune systems, it's a problem, but for the rest of us, it's just another bug. Had it twice. Second time I was feeling fine in two days. With that in mind, why on earth would an ineffectual vaccine with known health consequences still be required?
(Ok, I know why; it's a control thing, but what logical reason do they have for it?)
I'm confused as to why we are still treating Covid like the damn boogey man. For people with compromised immune systems, it's a problem, but for the rest of us, it's just another bug. Had it twice. Second time I was feeling fine in two days. With that in mind, why on earth would an ineffectual vaccine with known health consequences still be required?
(Ok, I know why; it's a control thing, but what logical reason do they have for it?)
Just trust the science/government. They’ve got your back.
I'm confused as to why we are still treating Covid like the damn boogey man. For people with compromised immune systems, it's a problem, but for the rest of us, it's just another bug. Had it twice. Second time I was feeling fine in two days. With that in mind, why on earth would an ineffectual vaccine with known health consequences still be required?
(Ok, I know why; it's a control thing, but what logical reason do they have for it?)
We still have people at work who wear a mask all day every day. Covid is the devil, I guess. My 1st Covid was a like a bad flu+ exhaustion, second was more mild cold and a little tired.
Andy
They shouldn’t be so gullible as public health professionals. The percentage who didn’t buy into the big covid con is incredibly small. I sure hope they don’t have their blinders on next time, but color me a skeptic. :(
I don't think it's entirely accurate to say emerging data. Much of the data existed for years.
Social and conventional media leadership ran an incredibly successful campaign to both discredit anyone who questioned the vaccine and to massively exaggerate its effectiveness against Covid.
Two people I know well were vaxxed/boosted/boosted and managed to avoid Covid until this summer. Covid hit them just as hard as people who got it in early 2020. Those of us who had Covid previously get the symptoms of a bad cold/mild flu from Covid now.
My son was in the Army where the vaccine and boosters were and remain effectively mandatory and in his experience every soldier he knew got Covid. He got no more or less sick from Covid as his friends who were never vaxxed.
I believe evidence will show the vaccine reduced the severity of Covid symptoms in the segments who were especially vulnerable (i.e. the aged), slightly slowed the spread of Covid, but had little to no affect on the more virulent but less severe severe varients that followed the first wave of Covid.
Andy
There are a lot of things to unpack. First, I am not sure what 'public health professionals' to whom you are referring, so I may be inferring something off base. I am not talking the policy makers/CDC/et al., I am talking about the intersection of medicine (mostly ID) and public health.
RE: "much of the data existed for years." What data existed for years?
The data that was coming out December 2018-June 2019 was new, and mostly unprecedented. We we all seeing the same thing. Now if you want to argue the 'what' we were seeing was gamed/rigged, that's a different argument.
None of my comments speak to the vaccine. I never got it, and although our hospital made it 'mandatory' they honored every waiver and did not push it. Our ID/public health folks had a pretty good bead on not putting all of their eggs into the vaccine basket. Mileage may vary.
I feel worst for the military guys who have no choice.
That many armed people certainly do have a choice, it's just a matter of IF they have the balls to make the right choice...
Personally, I knew this whole thing was a HOAX from the very beginning.
That many armed people certainly do have a choice, it's just a matter of IF they have the balls to make the right choice...
Personally, I knew this whole thing was a HOAX from the very beginning.
I’m not sure what branch of the military you served in, but I never observed any branch walking around armed on a regular basis. Especially not while stateside.
I’m not sure what branch of the military you served in, but I never observed any branch walking around armed on a regular basis. Especially not while stateside.
100%. The only time I had a loaded weapon state-side was at the range, or the ONE time we were taught guard duty in basic training. Loaded weapons were reserved for cops and performing "special duties" which made up about 1% of the people on post. Everything was ALWAYS locked up in the armory or provost marshal office.
I got a card and a pen, I’m gtg.
I’m not sure what branch of the military you served in, but I never observed any branch walking around armed on a regular basis. Especially not while stateside.
Yeah, practically takes an act of God to get a round of ammo if you have a weapon in most areas of service State-side. When you get it you better log it and account for it when you turn over. I can personally attest for the level of attention a couple of shotguns lost overboard receives.
"They" absolutely don't trust the average service member, probably less than most civilians.
There are a lot of things to unpack. First, I am not sure what 'public health professionals' to whom you are referring, so I may be inferring something off base. I am not talking the policy makers/CDC/et al., I am talking about the intersection of medicine (mostly ID) and public health.
RE: "much of the data existed for years." What data existed for years?
The data that was coming out December 2018-June 2019 was new, and mostly unprecedented. We we all seeing the same thing. Now if you want to argue the 'what' we were seeing was gamed/rigged, that's a different argument.
None of my comments speak to the vaccine. I never got it, and although our hospital made it 'mandatory' they honored every waiver and did not push it. Our ID/public health folks had a pretty good bead on not putting all of their eggs into the vaccine basket. Mileage may vary.
I don't consider direct medical providers to be in the basket with "public health professionals". The latter came down hard on providers who didn't parrot the "TrUsT TeH SCiEncE!!!" mantra as well. In the future, I'll listen to my direct medical provider's information and the "public health professionals" can feel however they want about my rejection of their advice. They'd do well to count themselves lucky I don't call for pitchforks and torches, if they dare mandate a damned thing! :mad:
"They" absolutely don't trust the average service member, probably less than most civilians.
They should trust them; they protect the Constitution's domestic enemies with Glee!
Sheryl Atkissons documentary The Clot Shot was just aired, you should Youtube it,
if after watching this you still have a shred of confidence in the government in general,
You are a FOOL !
SomeOtherGuy
09-15-23, 14:00
Sheryl Atkissons documentary The Clot Shot was just aired, you should Youtube it,
Please post a link - can't find it in multiple searches. Sounds very interesting. Attkisson is a real journalist but not toeing the "party line," much like Berenson.
For Wu2, don't be surprised if they tie your eligibility for direct stimulus payments, unemployment, debt relief, rent/food/ect assistance to your vax status...
FromMyColdDeadHand
09-15-23, 16:54
I don't think it's entirely accurate to say emerging data. Much of the data existed for years.
Social and conventional media leadership ran an incredibly successful campaign to both discredit anyone who questioned the vaccine and to massively exaggerate its effectiveness against Covid.
Two people I know well were vaxxed/boosted/boosted and managed to avoid Covid until this summer. Covid hit them just as hard as people who got it in early 2020. Those of us who had Covid previously get the symptoms of a bad cold/mild flu from Covid now.
My son was in the Army where the vaccine and boosters were and remain effectively mandatory and in his experience every soldier he knew got Covid. He got no more or less sick from Covid as his friends who were never vaxxed.
I believe evidence will show the vaccine reduced the severity of Covid symptoms in the segments who were especially vulnerable (i.e. the aged), slightly slowed the spread of Covid, but had little to no affect on the more virulent but less severe severe varients that followed the first wave of Covid.
Andy
We’ll put…
There are a lot of things to unpack. First, I am not sure what 'public health professionals' to whom you are referring, so I may be inferring something off base. I am not talking the policy makers/CDC/et al., I am talking about the intersection of medicine (mostly ID) and public health.
RE: "much of the data existed for years." What data existed for years?
The data that was coming out December 2018-June 2019 was new, and mostly unprecedented. We we all seeing the same thing. Now if you want to argue the 'what' we were seeing was gamed/rigged, that's a different argument.
None of my comments speak to the vaccine. I never got it, and although our hospital made it 'mandatory' they honored every waiver and did not push it. Our ID/public health folks had a pretty good bead on not putting all of their eggs into the vaccine basket. Mileage may vary.
Data that indicates "sudden heart related illness and cardiac arrest" is a side effect of the Pfizer vaccine has been available for 2 years. I certainly remember anyone mentioning that being ostracized as an anti-vax MAGA right wing nut.
Data that indicates the ages of people most at risk from Covid has existed as long as we had data about Covid. That did not stop governors placing Covid patients in nursing homes or the teacher's unions from demanding small children receive a vaccine with possibly lethal side effects.
Andy
Andy
Data that indicates "sudden heart related illness and cardiac arrest" is a side effect of the Pfizer vaccine has been available for 2 years. I certainly remember anyone mentioning that being ostracized as an anti-vax MAGA right wing nut.
Data that indicates the ages of people most at risk from Covid has existed as long as we had data about Covid. That did not stop governors placing Covid patients in nursing homes or the teacher's unions from demanding small children receive a vaccine with possibly lethal side effects.
Andy
Andy
Ok, thanks for context.
We still have people at work who wear a mask all day every day. Covid is the devil, I guess. My 1st Covid was a like a bad flu+ exhaustion, second was more mild cold and a little tired.
Andy
Exactly my experience, though I had the world's worst headache both times as well.
Diamondback
09-16-23, 09:53
My bout seemed like an unusually-timed flareup of my seasonal allergies other than the fatigue. Much Ado About Nothing had it been *properly* responded to... but TPTB wanted dead bodies as pretext to seize power, loot the Treasury and dispose of The Hated Outsider.
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