View Full Version : How often do you zero your handguns and test your ammo?
I took 3 handguns out to test some ammo that I bought several thousand rounds of each, you know-stocking up season. Freedom munitions 147g HP, and Norma 124 FMJ. I wanted to test the accuracy so I took my Sig Legions X5 and 226 SAO and my Stacatto P. All equipped with RDS.
All guns shot 2 inch or better groups with a rest at 20 yards. I was very please with accuracy. I had Mark shoot the groups because I lack the patience to shoot groups in general, and obviously it went well. How often do you test your ammo and guns?
I chromo'd the Norma last week at 1135fps and FM 915fps. It was another batch of FM ammo but should be similar.
http://i.imgur.com/hRUANYe.jpg (https://imgur.com/hRUANYe)
http://i.imgur.com/SOtxI63.jpg (https://imgur.com/SOtxI63)
http://i.imgur.com/hcuKbzn.jpg (https://imgur.com/hcuKbzn)
Next week I might take my Stacatto C2 and other Legion 226DA/SA.
PB
1_click_off
09-24-23, 11:59
Never had a need after the initial zero. I am shooting non-adjustable irons, so I don’t have the ability to adjust for elevation. With that said, the RDS might have the ability to adjus, but maybe that is just for initial zero and can be ignored there on out?
Just thinking it may be over thinking the need to re-zero just because the RDS easily allows for it.
With a 2 or 4 MOA dot, would not just shooting top, middle, bottom of dot adjust for all your types of ammo? Same for windage. Just need to make notes on which ammo has the different POA and POI.
I change batteries on the Trijicon RDS once a year and will check zero after doing so. I've not had more than a 1/4" change at twenty yards since I started using them in 2015.
Some ammo will change the zero but I usually buy it by the case so its easy to test that.
Since I have gone back to Glock with the Leupold Delta micro, I have had zero issues with them maintaining zero.
But I kind of look at each range session as a combination working on skills for me and verification that my guns and equipment still work .
I use reference marks on optic mounts and white/red/blue on optics- with white for range ammo zero (mine is handload so it never varies) and red or blue for carry ammo. This for pistols that actually get carried as well as shot at range.
Barring an optic going tits up (2 RMRs did), I don’t verify zero unless I start shooting WAY off of aimpoint.
And this has only happened when optics themselves went kaput.
Obviously, if I change carry ammo a re-dial is in order.
I have two handguns with RDS on them and I take them with me to the range every time. So far, no need to re-zero them.
The other ones with fixed sights well, they are fixed sights. I shoot GD 124gr mostly and I have not seen much difference between batches to justify a re-zero.
I have historically never tested handguns for accuracy. My thought “ center mass is easy” and texting accuracy is a new concept to me. And I have found very little fluctuation even when remounting a RDS. I have never played with iron sights for sighting in.
I shoot one match with very small targets so my guns should be spot on. Also, I bought so much of this 147 gr ammo, I thought it prudent to test and see if both brands of ammo were very close. And they were. The norma might hit a scootch higher but both essentially spot on. I did need to adjust a little so I am glad I did it.
Probably good for a year. YMMV
PB
I don't....I test them when I buy them for function and to see if they are reasonably on target and make adjustments, if necessary. I don't shoot competitions any more but it was never an issue for me when I did.......I only have one 44 MAG with an optic and I haven't even gotten out to do an initial zero. But, I'm willing to bet my laser bore scope sighting has it more than close enough for typical SD pistol range.
I don't consider pistols to be much of an accuracy platform or problem to solve. If I miss a steel plate at 15 yards its usually on me, not the pistol or the ammo.
After thinking more about this while typing, I have too many darned pistols to even consider doing such a thing.
Pretty much never. Though in fairness, all I shoot are Glocks with night sights.
I pulled out a Gen 4 G19 that's been sitting in storage for about 6 years. Took it to the range about 2 weeks ago with a few boxes of decade old Gold Dots I needed to replace with something newer. All was great.
It happens inherently with practice.
bamashooter
09-25-23, 08:03
It happens inherently with practice.
This, though I have only one adjustable without sight-pusher tool, drift, and hammer.
EDIT: None. Forgot I had sold that one (1911) with adjustable rear sight.
How often do you zero your handguns and test your ammo?
Regularly, mostly by default through assorted exercises. Sometimes deliberately. On good day, you can see load and lot variations with RDSs and even irons.
The Rangemaster Bullseye Course is great for that: https://www.activeresponsetraining.net/shooting-drill-rangemaster-bullseye-course
Chuck Pressburg's NFP drill set is also excellent for teasing out that stuff.
BuzzinSATX
09-25-23, 09:09
I test accuracy whenever I develop a new hand load or use a new bullet in a load.
I am bad about using different SD ammo, and have some 9MM guns loaded with 124 and others with 147, mostly Gold Dots, Golden Saber, or HST. .
I shoot all my loaded JHP mags (probably 12 mags or so for everything) dry once a year and reload with fresh ammo. Out to 25 yards I’ve never really had an issue and can keep everything on a 4” plate offhand if I am really paying attention.
I bought a case of HST 147 but I still have a bunch of mixed bag JHP I need to use first.
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Mark hand loaded some Berry bullets that shot plate sized groups, like something I had never seen before. It was jaw dropping, which is what has always been in the back of my mind. If I shot all handholds, I would test certain bullets but I buy most 9mm banger ammo.
PB
Mark hand loaded some Berry bullets that shot plate sized groups, like something I had never seen before. It was jaw dropping, which is what has always been in the back of my mind. If I shot all handholds, I would test certain bullets but I buy most 9mm banger ammo.
PB
One of “the pups” brought out some Berry 147 handloads and was shooting an XC. (Come on Man!!)
Ran off hand Drill at 55 yds.
He couldn’t keep 5 rds on a full USPSA target.
Had him shoot same drill with my 124 gr Zero JHPs, 6” group.
The plated bullets are probably fine for Hoser stuff, close. I’ve never had any confidence in, or luck with them for precision personally.
I rarely test for accuracy, I mainly check for function and ability to operate the weapon.
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One of “the pups” brought out some Berry 147 handloads and was shooting an XC. (Come on Man!!)
Ran off hand Drill at 55 yds.
He couldn’t keep 5 rds on a full USPSA target.
Had him shoot same drill with my 124 gr Zero JHPs, 6” group.
The plated bullets are probably fine for Hoser stuff, close. I’ve never had any confidence in, or luck with them for precision personally.
Yea, I bought those Berry bullets during one of the panic buy times, now they just sit. Should dump them out and use the boxes they come it, which are kinda nice.
PB
Not often. Last time I switched lots of carry ammo was like 6 years ago, and I bought cases. My hand-loads, and issued ammo has been close enough at realistic pistol relevant distances. I’m able to get 5 out of 15 on a reduced silhouette at 175 yds (nothing to be proud of, just a statement about zero) with hastily loaded Blue FP 147s. I really don’t touch the dials very often.
And yeah, Berrys has some nice boxes. I mostly shoot Blues, though.
When I practice / train it gets verified.
So, pretty regularly.
Instead of zeroing my weapon, how about zeroing myself? My G17 was perpetually left. My other glocks, no problem hitting with mechanical zero. But that full sized 9mm was frustrating. I eventually drifted the sights 2 years ago. Since then, with dry fire and practice on steel I got better. Last week, went to the paper target range to train. Amazing! The groups were all too right. I ended drifting the sights back to mechanical zero. So, yes, I zeroed myself...
I keep a log on carry and competition handguns. In the log I put accuracy results, shift of POI between loads, etc. When I purchase a new load, I will not carry it until I verify accuracy and POI. If I go to a particular load I haven't fired in years, I can go to the log to see if a sight adjustment is needed.
At some point during a training session, I shoot 50 yards. Following log data, I rarely see a significant change in past POI.
Instead of zeroing my weapon, how about zeroing myself? My G17 was perpetually left. My other glocks, no problem hitting with mechanical zero. But that full sized 9mm was frustrating. I eventually drifted the sights 2 years ago. Since then, with dry fire and practice on steel I got better. Last week, went to the paper target range to train. Amazing! The groups were all too right. I ended drifting the sights back to mechanical zero. So, yes, I zeroed myself...
I zero'd a guys Glock 45 today and was hitting right. I moved it over but wondered if I was the right shift. Told him to verify. Got it spot on but still gave me pause.
PB
I don't have RDS on my handguns but I do check for zero. When I check zero on my iron sight carbine and red dot carbine I do so at 36 yards. After checking and adjusting if necessary I check zero on my two handguns. Both are drift adjusting irons so my elevation is just something I have to work with but both are good. Windage is very important to me so I have spent some time shooting groups then taking the target/pistol to my local smith and getting the necessary adjustments done. Currently very happy with my POA/POI but I still check to remind myself of where I need to hold elevation.
It happens inherently with practice.
Indeed !
I roll all my own. Even sd. My trp operator has an adjustable rear. Went out and ran some of my sd gold dots through it at 15 yds. It was a slight low, but everything touched and I was shooting off hand. I think I zeroed it for that round 7 years ago at 25yds so I was ok with it. My wc though, that I built the round for, didn’t do quite as good. But I haven’t been shooting near as much lately and it was probably me more than the gun. But I have always wanted to know that if I needed to head shot something at 25 yards I could. So the wc is sitting and the trp is back to being carried.
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I test my ammo and guns at least once a year, or whenever I change my ammo or sights. This will ensure that my zero is still accurate and that my ammo performs as expected.
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