Full auto guns and france!

[Mr.Goodtimes]

hey just something interesting i thought id bring up for discussion, it seems that, even now, france has some pretty reasonable gun laws; and up until the late nineties, every citizen was alowed three FULLY AUTOMATIC firearms per household (cash and carry, no special permits) and suppressors are still legal (cash and carry from what i understand). I understand things have tightened up a bit since then but it would seem that even now, especially compared with the rest of europe they have some of the more lose gun laws.

My question is, if the french could own full auto weapons and there wasnt blood baths in the street constantly, why cant we? why cant i go down to the local gun shop, and buy a suppressor and fully automatic rifle after a back ground check? i dont know if its true but i read that in america, there has never been a crime committed by a citizen with a fully automatic weapon that legally owned that weapon.

[NoBody]

Deleted.

[Left Sig]

Well, the US restrictions on FA rifles went into effect after lots of bloodshed in the streets during prohibition. So there was a public safety concern at the time. Legalizing alcohol again took out the profit motive and reduced the violence, but the gun laws remained.

Since the FA laws were enacted virtually no crime has been committed with legal FA weapons, so one could argue that they work.

Much of western Europe has existed for many decades without the extensive urban underclass like we have in the US, and we all know that's where most of the violent crime occurs. As such, violent crime in Europe tends to be a lot lower overall. But they will soon see what it is like in the US as many poor middle easterners move into major European cities. Crime is already rising, as well as rioting.

[Gutshot John]

hey just something interesting i thought id bring up for discussion, it seems that, even now, france has some pretty reasonable gun laws; and up until the late nineties, every citizen was alowed three FULLY AUTOMATIC firearms per household (cash and carry, no special permits) and suppressors are still legal (cash and carry from what i understand). I understand things have tightened up a bit since then but it would seem that even now, especially compared with the rest of europe they have some of the more lose gun laws.

My question is, if the french could own full auto weapons and there wasnt blood baths in the street constantly, why cant we? why cant i go down to the local gun shop, and buy a suppressor and fully automatic rifle after a back ground check? i dont know if its true but i read that in america, there has never been a crime committed by a citizen with a fully automatic weapon that legally owned that weapon.

Mmmm...check your source please. Having lived in France I'm a bit dubious. Moreover they make a point of separating military calibers from hunting calibers. 9mm, 5.56, 7.62 are all strictly controlled. So having full-auto and feeding full-auto are two different things.

I seem to recall that Italy allowed full-auto. The Swiss of course make it law that every male 18+ own an assault rifle as part of the Swiss Army.

[tweakmeister]

Italy has no military calibers, and the military even keeps some obscure calibers "in use" to prevent their use in the civilian world.

This of course doesn't prevent the mafia (in the southern region of the country) from doing whatever they want. And with the country surrounded by three sides of water, things flow in.

Example of German laws can be found here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/1762038/US-Army-Gun-Ownership-in-Germany

[Mr.Goodtimes]

what i was reading was saying something about military caliber weapons but, from what i understood, it just meant that you had to obtain a different license to own one.

and thats interesting, in switzerland you can own a full auto assult rifle? is this only while your in the military or can you purchase one once your out for your own?

[Littlebear]

I spent about 20 years there, from the mid 60s to the mid 80s. There was no way for a normal citizen to legally own a fully automatic weapon. My LEO friends had to jump through hoops to get issued one for special events...
On the other hand there was a booming black market where MP40s, Stens :rolleyes:, and AKs were readily accessible. If caught, the penalties were quite stiff.

[Mr.Goodtimes]

well, just goes to show not everything ya read on the errornet is true lol... well i think here in the states we should all be able to own full auto. i think a simple background check would suffice. if the thugs are gonna own one i want one too.

[Iraqgunz]

I lived in Europe for a toal of about 8 years in the late 80's-90's. German gun laws are some of the strictest in all of Europe especially as it pertains to military type weapons. I purchased a suppressor in Switzerland circa 1993 and there were zero restrictions at that time. It was a cash/ carry deal. They gun stores also had some of the best collections of guns ever. It is my understanding that the gun laws in Switzerland have changed as well and are not as liberal as they used to be.

[bkb0000]

well, just goes to show not everything ya read on the errornet is true lol... well i think here in the states we should all be able to own full auto. i think a simple background check would suffice. if the thugs are gonna own one i want one too.

if the police have 'em, and the criminals have 'em, WE NEED 'EM.

[30 cal slut]

black rifles, handguns, and healthy distrust of the government are alive and well in France.

http://ar15france.com/forums/portal.php

IIRC, the French citizen can no longer have full autos (and CCW is largely restricted), but les francaises can have just about everything else.

Interesting to see black rifles adapted to non-military calibers.

Suppressors are sold over the counter. Like baguettes.

While it's easy to make fun of the frogs :D ... French gun owners are a hell of a lot better off than their English counterparts.

[CarlosDJackal]

what i was reading was saying something about military caliber weapons but, from what i understood, it just meant that you had to obtain a different license to own one.

and thats interesting, in switzerland you can own a full auto assult rifle? is this only while your in the military or can you purchase one once your out for your own?

Almost 10-years ago I shot a Sniper Match alongside a gentleman from Switzerland who flew in just for the match. Since the USA would not allow him to bring his own rifle and ammo, he had to borrow someone else's.

Back then the government was starting to tighten up their Gun Laws because of the increasing crime committed by "Political Refugees" that they allowed into the country from the Balkans. It seems that they did not learn from the lessons we had learned when we accepter Cuban Refugees that Castro had allowed to leave Cuba for Florida due to "Humanitarian Reasons".

What he had also told me is that they are issued a rifle as part of the Swiww Army when they come of age. They get to keep this rifle for the rest of their lives (unless it is replaced by a new model). Plus, they are required to participate in shooting matches at least twice a year. In these matches, they need only to show up with their issued firearms and are issued the ammunition. They are also provided additional practice sessions again with free ammo throughout the year.

Whether or not this is still the case, I don't really know. I have cousins who live in Switzerland but I have not any contact with them for more than 20-years!!