Dan Goodwin
01-04-09, 09:44
This is long.
Just spent an hour slogging through the Shotgun Urban Myth thread in Tactics and Training after jumping there from Miss Debbie's question about a HD Shotgun on the Shotgun page.
Grant's original point was most gunstore/rapeatoriums are more interested in making a sale than pointing folks in the right direction (if they even know where that is).
And he's right, but everybody spun off into what they think is best for home defense. We all have our opinions, and know what works for us, don't we?
But what about the cute little smurf who wants a gun? What will we do to look out for her if she asks us?
I work at a LE/Corrections agency with about 400 employees. A number of clerical and non-armed corrections personnel frequently ask about getting weapons for home defense or CCW. I find that encouraging given our client base. I also have a number of citizens ask questions about the same thing.
But most of their eyes glaze over when I start talking about ongoing training, adequate training before ever taking a CCW class or keeping a gun at the house, etc. NDPs in other words.
Most will never develop the urge to master martial skills most of we posters hope to possess after a life of training.
They have, however, decided to make a major step away from being sheep and buy the popular modern anti-violence totem: a personal firearm. That's a good thing.
But they don't want to spend much money and they don't intend ever training very much. They want peace of mind in a $200 chunk of metal & plastic or wood.
Suggesting a now-$2,000 AR (which, to misquote Dirty Harry, "Will blow your eardrums clean out when I touch a round off inside this house") , $1,500 pimped out M1 Carbine or $1,000 Italian combat shotgun is a non-starter for them.
The best we can do is encourage them to buy something reliable (goes BANG every time you pull the trigger), simple to operate and cheap to feed. If they are IBCs (Itty Bitty Citizens) or Gray Panthers (GPs) they need weapons they can manipulate easily and FIT THEM.
The first rule is "have a gun", remember?
We need to encourage the hapless/hopeless/misinformed would-be members of our fraternity to shoot for fun until they get serious about it and embrace training, and urge them to join the NRA.
My recently arrived at suggestion for a "home defense gun" for NDP/IBC/GPs is a Ruger Mark II or III with (spendy, but I show them mine) CTC LaserGrips and/or a Wally World Ruger 10/22 with an appropriately shortened stock (the pricier Compact models are ideal for most users but not OTC at places where they shop).
In the carbines I recommend a 25-30 shot magazine, and mounting a flashlight upon it. Tell them to practice with Federal Bulk Pak and load CCI Stingers or Velocitors.
The actions are easy to work, they don't kick much and they are cheap to shoot. I stress that .22 isn't the best caliber to protect themselves with but they can get a bigger gun after they master the first one _ if they want.
Nope, it ain't 5.56, 12 ga., .30 Carbine, 9mm or even .38, but if they'll actually go out and shoot it a couple times a year they're way ahead of the power curve when the poop gets misted by the floor fan.
Two or three Stingers from a gun they can hit with is better than missing with a Beretta 92 they can barely reach the trigger on and haven't practiced with at all.
Come to think of it, a Ruger Charger with a combo light/laser and a Tac Innovations 25-round magazine might be ideal for these folks...though certainly more than most NDP/IBC/GPs are willing to pay.
Go ahead, tear me a new one, but I can tell you this:
I recently got my wife's elderly aunt and uncle into a pawnshop Mark II 22/45 for $200 out the door. They came to me frightened because lots of drunk, belligerent and shady characters have started banging on their door in the middle of the night; they live just off a four lane state highway in one of our Scrotevilles.
They have burnt more than 1,000 rounds in practice with it (cost them less than $30). Their confidence is up and they are no longer afraid in their own home.
They meet the prime requisite of having a gun and are even talking about getting a 20-ga. pump or .38 at the pawnshop to up their firepower.
They want me to come to their senior center and give a talk to other GPs.
That's my idea of gun guy nirvana: building AARP fire teams one at a time.
P.S. I find females of all ages easier to teach to shoot than males; if they are motivated they learn. Not only do they usually have better hand-eye coordination, they also don't have the hairy twins bouncing around "down there" that would make them think they are John Wayne reincarnated.
Just spent an hour slogging through the Shotgun Urban Myth thread in Tactics and Training after jumping there from Miss Debbie's question about a HD Shotgun on the Shotgun page.
Grant's original point was most gunstore/rapeatoriums are more interested in making a sale than pointing folks in the right direction (if they even know where that is).
And he's right, but everybody spun off into what they think is best for home defense. We all have our opinions, and know what works for us, don't we?
But what about the cute little smurf who wants a gun? What will we do to look out for her if she asks us?
I work at a LE/Corrections agency with about 400 employees. A number of clerical and non-armed corrections personnel frequently ask about getting weapons for home defense or CCW. I find that encouraging given our client base. I also have a number of citizens ask questions about the same thing.
But most of their eyes glaze over when I start talking about ongoing training, adequate training before ever taking a CCW class or keeping a gun at the house, etc. NDPs in other words.
Most will never develop the urge to master martial skills most of we posters hope to possess after a life of training.
They have, however, decided to make a major step away from being sheep and buy the popular modern anti-violence totem: a personal firearm. That's a good thing.
But they don't want to spend much money and they don't intend ever training very much. They want peace of mind in a $200 chunk of metal & plastic or wood.
Suggesting a now-$2,000 AR (which, to misquote Dirty Harry, "Will blow your eardrums clean out when I touch a round off inside this house") , $1,500 pimped out M1 Carbine or $1,000 Italian combat shotgun is a non-starter for them.
The best we can do is encourage them to buy something reliable (goes BANG every time you pull the trigger), simple to operate and cheap to feed. If they are IBCs (Itty Bitty Citizens) or Gray Panthers (GPs) they need weapons they can manipulate easily and FIT THEM.
The first rule is "have a gun", remember?
We need to encourage the hapless/hopeless/misinformed would-be members of our fraternity to shoot for fun until they get serious about it and embrace training, and urge them to join the NRA.
My recently arrived at suggestion for a "home defense gun" for NDP/IBC/GPs is a Ruger Mark II or III with (spendy, but I show them mine) CTC LaserGrips and/or a Wally World Ruger 10/22 with an appropriately shortened stock (the pricier Compact models are ideal for most users but not OTC at places where they shop).
In the carbines I recommend a 25-30 shot magazine, and mounting a flashlight upon it. Tell them to practice with Federal Bulk Pak and load CCI Stingers or Velocitors.
The actions are easy to work, they don't kick much and they are cheap to shoot. I stress that .22 isn't the best caliber to protect themselves with but they can get a bigger gun after they master the first one _ if they want.
Nope, it ain't 5.56, 12 ga., .30 Carbine, 9mm or even .38, but if they'll actually go out and shoot it a couple times a year they're way ahead of the power curve when the poop gets misted by the floor fan.
Two or three Stingers from a gun they can hit with is better than missing with a Beretta 92 they can barely reach the trigger on and haven't practiced with at all.
Come to think of it, a Ruger Charger with a combo light/laser and a Tac Innovations 25-round magazine might be ideal for these folks...though certainly more than most NDP/IBC/GPs are willing to pay.
Go ahead, tear me a new one, but I can tell you this:
I recently got my wife's elderly aunt and uncle into a pawnshop Mark II 22/45 for $200 out the door. They came to me frightened because lots of drunk, belligerent and shady characters have started banging on their door in the middle of the night; they live just off a four lane state highway in one of our Scrotevilles.
They have burnt more than 1,000 rounds in practice with it (cost them less than $30). Their confidence is up and they are no longer afraid in their own home.
They meet the prime requisite of having a gun and are even talking about getting a 20-ga. pump or .38 at the pawnshop to up their firepower.
They want me to come to their senior center and give a talk to other GPs.
That's my idea of gun guy nirvana: building AARP fire teams one at a time.
P.S. I find females of all ages easier to teach to shoot than males; if they are motivated they learn. Not only do they usually have better hand-eye coordination, they also don't have the hairy twins bouncing around "down there" that would make them think they are John Wayne reincarnated.