View Full Version : MK12 Mod 1 clone...ish? Rail question
Stopsign32v
10-13-23, 20:16
I want to build a loosely MK12 Mod 1 inspired rifle but I'm stumped on the rail. I don't believe the KAC RAS long is an option anymore and don't plan to pay a stupid price for it.
What would be the best option B for this build in your opinion? I was thinking the Larue in either 11" or 12" not sure which length would better match the KAC RAS Long. https://www.larue.com/products/larue-quad-rail-handguard/
There is nothing even close to MK12 about larue rails. Either get rid of the MK12 terminology, or rethink your rail selection.
Nothing wrong with wanting an 18" DMR/ SPR style rifle, but the rail is too much a part of the MK12 to be ignored.
Stopsign32v
10-13-23, 20:46
There is nothing even close to MK12 about larue rails. Either get rid of the MK12 terminology, or rethink your rail selection.
Nothing wrong with wanting an 18" DMR/ SPR style rifle, but the rail is too much a part of the MK12 to be ignored.
You made a good way to describing what I want. 18" DMR/SPR with a picatinny rail close to the KAC RAS Long look. Would the Larue suite that or something else?
Stopsign32v
10-13-23, 21:12
I mean...Looks close enough for me personally
Those gloves though
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/8YLQfRqci7E
The 13.2” would be optimal for your application. The 12” will leave the entirety of the gas block uncovered.
You made a good way to describing what I want. 18" DMR/SPR with a picatinny rail close to the KAC RAS Long look. Would the Larue suite that or something else?
Here are a few weapons that may or may not have quad rails, but give you a few looks that might be of interest to you... Nothing wrong with building what you want, the way you want it. I wouldn't personally get wrapped up with the idea of it being MK12ish. Any of the below will be incredible when it comes to shooting, and that is because they all (except the BCM MK12) use the Centurion Arms MK12 barrels.
https://64.media.tumblr.com/945872cae8fe0bfac6df946179d719d1/7e4fdde955e9f914-cd/s1280x1920/075261d933a9da119a043813b9ecaffd0d24aea4.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/671d32d5c6075e69cc3b622867a853f2/632f7191eccf047f-be/s1280x1920/cb2b487e140c9c209b4bb3630b2219e32912da53.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/1187f305567c582288806b321a115802/12acff7d0552a323-7a/s1280x1920/901e44f1c51e467e08169f9371924c89dc1ce5b1.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/1ab02a5961006b56e5bcf11561c835a4/da1b313230c4daae-67/s1280x1920/50ecd69ee0a5ba8db3242320e7c76e56e67eb988.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/684c4ce672bbd90fcb783dc6fe2351d7/72d7156fc5e441c1-de/s1280x1920/9273fbb3e49d1b75e39fdf50a2b20174881270e1.jpg
IMHO the gas block on the MK12 was exposed due to necessity. There were no FF rails at the time long enough to cover the gas block on a rifle length system.
If you want a pure MK12 clone then expose the gas block. If you want a rifle that has function over form, then use a rail that covers the gas block.
And this is America and you can call it a MK12ish clone or an SPR or a DMR or Honey Bunch or whatever you want.
Hammer_Man
10-14-23, 12:46
I gave up once KAC discontinued all their legacy hand guards. Instead, I built an 18” barreled SPR style weapon with a 13.5” M-lok hand guard. I still want an actual MK12 clone, but I’m not going to pay the ridiculous prices either.
Another option would be to build a MK12 mod 0 using PRI parts. You can buy a complete factory PRI MK12 mod 0 upper for
what the KAC hand guards sell for on Gunbroker.
What is the significance of covering or not covering the gas block, if it is a pinned unit?
What is the significance of covering or not covering the gas block, if it is a pinned unit?
If you think an exposed gas block and tube (pinned or otherwise) is better or at least no worse at risk of damage than that of a gas block and tube that is pinned (or not) and is also covered by a rail, who am I to dissuade you from exposing it......
FSB is well proven. Gas tube is covered.
One More Time
10-14-23, 13:15
Midwest Industries makes Quad rails up to 15" if that's your thing.
On my 18" I started with a Wilson Combat 15"
It now has a 15.5" IWI arca rail.
No need for any attachments on the bottom, bipod and tripod have arca clamps.
FSB is well proven. Gas tube is covered.
Doesn't look covered to me.
7097370974
Stopsign32v
10-14-23, 13:31
https://64.media.tumblr.com/1187f305567c582288806b321a115802/12acff7d0552a323-7a/s1280x1920/901e44f1c51e467e08169f9371924c89dc1ce5b1.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/1ab02a5961006b56e5bcf11561c835a4/da1b313230c4daae-67/s1280x1920/50ecd69ee0a5ba8db3242320e7c76e56e67eb988.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/684c4ce672bbd90fcb783dc6fe2351d7/72d7156fc5e441c1-de/s1280x1920/9273fbb3e49d1b75e39fdf50a2b20174881270e1.jpg
Bro all of your examples (ever that you post) are in such amazing taste! Are all of these yours or what?
I gave up once KAC discontinued all their legacy hand guards. Instead, I built an 18” barreled SPR style weapon with a 13.5” M-lok hand guard. I still want an actual MK12 clone, but I’m not going to pay the ridiculous prices either.
Another option would be to build a MK12 mod 0 using PRI parts. You can buy a complete factory PRI MK12 mod 0 upper for
what the KAC hand guards sell for on Gunbroker.
BCM has a nice MK12 Mod O that should be available again very soon. Its a NM barrel, and my results with it so far have been rock solid. With anything, the decision comes to what exactly you are looking for. For myself, I like the look of the MK12 Mod O, and the MK12 Mod 1, so I have variants of both. However, the builds that I make are with the MK12 barrel, and since that is what really makes the gun perform, that is what works for me with most of my shooting.
Regarding the above comment about calling it a MK12 or MK12ish weapon, you can call it a MK18 or even a MK19 if you want.
Bro all of your examples (ever that you post) are in such amazing taste! Are all of these yours or what?
Thank you, I am humbled by your kind words. Those pics are of personal weapons.
Thank you, I am humbled by your kind words. Those pics are of personal weapons.
The continuous rail on top looks great.
The continuous rail on top looks great.
Agreed, it adds rigidity and gives a unique look.
Stopsign32v
10-14-23, 15:50
The continuous rail on top looks great.
Ok ok...Guys what do you think about this idea?
https://centurionarms.com/c4-rail-7in-12in/ in 12 inch with exposed gas block and the Mod 0 continuous rail top like Stick has. I know the scope mount will be a dual independent...
https://media.tenor.com/HGblO7DfAN0AAAAC/what-hmm.gif
What is the significance of covering or not covering the gas block, if it is a pinned unit? as far as I know the SPRs were not pinned, and on an precision rifle, there are opinions about that.
as far as I know the SPRs were not pinned, and on an precision rifle, there are opinions about that.
I forgot about the barrel distortion concern. In that case covered surely seems preferable.
BCM has a nice MK12 Mod O that should be available again very soon. Its a NM barrel, and my results with it so far have been rock solid. With anything, the decision comes to what exactly you are looking for. For myself, I like the look of the MK12 Mod O, and the MK12 Mod 1, so I have variants of both. However, the builds that I make are with the MK12 barrel, and since that is what really makes the gun perform, that is what works for me with most of my shooting.
Regarding the above comment about calling it a MK12 or MK12ish weapon, you can call it a MK18 or even a MK19 if you want.
That's not helpful to hear, I've had one of their Mod 0 uppers in my cart for weeks and have resisted so far.
Gunner (Marine Corps Warrant Officer) Ken Davis from the Weapons Training Battalion Precision Rifle Shop at Quantico wrote this about the Marine SAM-R (NOT the SPR):
"From the Jouster site by the original designer (retired Marine Gunner Ken Davis):
Re: Squad Designated Marksman Rifle
Posted By: Ken Davis <Send E-Mail>
Date: Friday, 16 February 2007, at 8:52 am
In Response To: Squad Designated Marksman Rifle (LeagleEagle)
In the Gun Buyers Annual Presents #47 Special Weapons for Military and Police 2007 magazine, there is an article on page 30 of the Army’s SDM-R written by Charlie Cutshaw. Since he filled several pages with somewhat factual information, I didn’t get through the entire article because the opening picture has the weapons system with bayonet mounted, something that is never done with this type of rifle and I rapidly lost interest. The sample provided in the article is made by DPMS so you may want to check their web site for info on it.
I can tell you much about the Marines SAMR (Squad Advance Marksman Rifle) that was allude to in the article. Since I was the original designer of it back in 1996, it has changed very little in the last ten years and has proven to be an incredibly successful weapons system.
The basic platform is a standard M16A2 lower with an M4 flat-top upper. The feed dynamics of the M4 upper are superior to the A4 upper. The barrel is a 1 x 7 Krieger stainless barrel procured from Compass Lake as a set; barrel, bolt and barrel extension. Compass Lake does the chambering (NATO) and headspaces the bolt to it. Contrary to the article, the barrels are blued at the PWS shop; however, the finish is not very durable and wears easily so the majority of the existing SAMR’s look like they have unfinished barrels. The rail system is the KAC RAS, a big mistake because it works loose and several have been reported broken. We had to modify the rail locking nut with a set screw to keep it in place. If I was to do it again, I would use the Larue Tactical 13.2 inch rail system as it locks solidly in place and completely covers the gas tube. The front sight is a standard flip-up that is integral to the gas block. The bipod is a Harris swivel bench rest model with Pod-Lok. We built the SAMR the same as the NM M16A2’s meaning the rifle is set up using the same exacting standards we used in building the NM guns. Utilizing MK 262, we were getting sub-minute groups out to 800 yards.
Ken Davis"
I confirmed this with him when we were squadded together at Camp Perry during the National Matches.
Stick and Sinister's posts made glad I opened this thread. To the OP are you cloning or building a shooter? If you are building a shooter and need it now, the Larue will probably be fine.
Stopsign32v
10-14-23, 20:29
Stick and Sinister's posts made glad I opened this thread. To the OP are you cloning or building a shooter? If you are building a shooter and need it now, the Larue will probably be fine.
I like building loose clone rifles. I don't care about the minute details some do but from walking up to the rifle I want someone to know it's inspired by a certain rifle...If any of that made sense.
I like building loose clone rifles. I don't care about the minute details some do but from walking up to the rifle I want someone to know it's inspired by a certain rifle...If any of that made sense.
That’s where I’d be with the MK12. I’d put better glass on it and a better mount, trigger etc. I don’t know about the can, I’ve already got more 5.56 can platforms than I wanted and a third plus the whole NFA thing would be more annoying. But the can is a huge part of it and why I’m torn. A BCM MK12 upper with SFMB plus Mini2 would be so much easier.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Stopsign32v
10-14-23, 20:57
I have an upper for the build but I need to get a lower for it...
Ideas on a good lower for a MK12 build?
I have an upper for the build but I need to get a lower for it...
Ideas on a good lower for a MK12 build?
You mentioned “clone” and have reinforced that, so do you want military-esque markings? What about a full M16 cutout?
Stopsign32v
10-15-23, 07:49
You mentioned “clone” and have reinforced that, so do you want military-esque markings? What about a full M16 cutout?
It's hard to say...For example I was building a M4A1 "clone" which again was very loosely tied to one with accessories (barrel matches, fsb, rear sight, etc) so again from across the room it was a M4A1 inspired for sure.
But instead of using an Aero lower with a Superman logo lower but in a huge A, I went with this lower https://www.thoroughbredarmco.com/product/1127/ So again, not correct but a tasteful nod towards the goal.
Now I'm sure there is no MK12 marked lower and that isn't what I'm looking for, but you guys might have idea of good lowers that might fit the idea.
Hammer_Man
10-15-23, 09:02
However, the builds that I make are with the MK12 barrel, and since that is what really makes the gun perform, that is what works for me with most of my shooting.
Agreed, the barrel, bcg, and trigger matter most. Centurion Arms’s Mk12 barrel is excellent, and would be my first choice.
Gunner (Marine Corps Warrant Officer) Ken Davis from the Weapons Training Battalion Precision Rifle Shop at Quantico wrote this about the Marine SAM-R (NOT the SPR):
"From the Jouster site by the original designer (retired Marine Gunner Ken Davis):
Re: Squad Designated Marksman Rifle
Posted By: Ken Davis <Send E-Mail>
Date: Friday, 16 February 2007, at 8:52 am
In Response To: Squad Designated Marksman Rifle (LeagleEagle)
In the Gun Buyers Annual Presents #47 Special Weapons for Military and Police 2007 magazine, there is an article on page 30 of the Army’s SDM-R written by Charlie Cutshaw. Since he filled several pages with somewhat factual information, I didn’t get through the entire article because the opening picture has the weapons system with bayonet mounted, something that is never done with this type of rifle and I rapidly lost interest. The sample provided in the article is made by DPMS so you may want to check their web site for info on it.
I can tell you much about the Marines SAMR (Squad Advance Marksman Rifle) that was allude to in the article. Since I was the original designer of it back in 1996, it has changed very little in the last ten years and has proven to be an incredibly successful weapons system.
The basic platform is a standard M16A2 lower with an M4 flat-top upper. The feed dynamics of the M4 upper are superior to the A4 upper. The barrel is a 1 x 7 Krieger stainless barrel procured from Compass Lake as a set; barrel, bolt and barrel extension. Compass Lake does the chambering (NATO) and headspaces the bolt to it. Contrary to the article, the barrels are blued at the PWS shop; however, the finish is not very durable and wears easily so the majority of the existing SAMR’s look like they have unfinished barrels. The rail system is the KAC RAS, a big mistake because it works loose and several have been reported broken. We had to modify the rail locking nut with a set screw to keep it in place. If I was to do it again, I would use the Larue Tactical 13.2 inch rail system as it locks solidly in place and completely covers the gas tube. The front sight is a standard flip-up that is integral to the gas block. The bipod is a Harris swivel bench rest model with Pod-Lok. We built the SAMR the same as the NM M16A2’s meaning the rifle is set up using the same exacting standards we used in building the NM guns. Utilizing MK 262, we were getting sub-minute groups out to 800 yards.
Ken Davis"
I confirmed this with him when we were squadded together at Camp Perry during the National Matches.
This isn’t the first time I’ve read about the Larue rails having a better lock up to the receiver. On a side note, I really appreciate the insider knowledge you being to this forum.
Stopsign32v
10-15-23, 09:21
Agreed, the barrel, bcg, and trigger matter most. Centurion Arms’s Mk12 barrel is excellent, and would be my first choice.
First off Centurion...Great barrels.
But the original barrel was the Douglas that was supplied to the military. CLE has them for $400 which is actually $50 cheaper than Centurion...And it's a Douglas.
And what do you mean BCG matters the most? Barrel, yes. Trigger, absolutely. But BCG? I've always grabbed a cheap Toolcraft and ran with it. Never seemed to let me down so far... School me on what you know!
A GI SPR built at Crane, Benning, and Lexington Blue Grass Army Depot would have recycled a GI lower of just about any brand. There are lots of options for simple ".mil-like" markings:
https://palmettostatearmory.com/media/catalog/product/cache/0423dea8e9791990cba1722182d60508/m/4/m4_carbine_clone_advert_file.jpg
https://palmettostatearmory.com/media/catalog/product/cache/0423dea8e9791990cba1722182d60508/h/r/hr51655123500_1_1_.jpg
https://palmettostatearmory.com/media/catalog/product/cache/0423dea8e9791990cba1722182d60508/1/6/16471997b.jpg
I have never understood the appeal of having "Property of U.S. GOVT" on private property. Do people like to imagine they have pilfered the national armory?
Stopsign32v
10-15-23, 12:05
I have never understood the appeal of having "Property of U.S. GOVT" on private property. Do people like to imagine they have pilfered the national armory?
Yea I kinda agree with you on that. But he was just putting up some that would be closer to a true MK12 and I get it. I'll probably go a different route though as PSA and myself don't have that great of a relationship.
Hammer_Man
10-15-23, 14:59
First off Centurion...Great barrels.
But the original barrel was the Douglas that was supplied to the military. CLE has them for $400 which is actually $50 cheaper than Centurion...And it's a Douglas.
And what do you mean BCG matters the most? Barrel, yes. Trigger, absolutely. But BCG? I've always grabbed a cheap Toolcraft and ran with it. Never seemed to let me down so far... School me on what you know!
Monty was at NSWC Crane, and I believe played a part in MK12 development. According to his company’s website, he sources his MK12 barrels from the same supplier that NSWC Crane did. That would most likely make them Douglas barrel blanks. CLE also makes a great barrel from what I’ve read, but their lead times are a bit long for me. I’ve never had a problem ordering a Centurion barrel when I’ve needed one. On top of that Monty is a contributor to this forum, and Centurion Arms has amazing customer service. That is worth the extra $50.00 to me.
A quality rifle needs a quality bcg, it’s that simple. I’d rather spend extra $$ for a bcg from a known good supplier (Colt, BCM, DD, BRT, SOLGW, Centurion Arms, etc) than take a chance on something else. I’m not saying it will make your rifle shoot more accurately, but I’d rather have the peace of mind. If Toolcraft tickles your pickle, then by all means don’t let me discourage you from using them.
I have an upper for the build but I need to get a lower for it...
Ideas on a good lower for a MK12 build?
Any Colt lower
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squad_Advanced_Marksman_Rifle Shows the SAMR , which was a 20" barrel and looked like a standard M16 from a distance (obviously not up close). You don't see many of those as clone or custom builds as they were not super popular, and the parts were difficult to obtain, especially the folding front sight.
Another nice 20" is shown at the following link, which shows the Army version of the above. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squad_Designated_Marksman_Rifle
Both used SS 20" match barrels though they were obtained from two different sources, and the US Army went with a fluted barrel.
Not really the info you were going for, but it does show there are a lot of variables within the weapon pool.
I have never understood the appeal of having "Property of U.S. GOVT" on private property. Do people like to imagine they have pilfered the national armory?
I feel the same way about restricted markings, but some people go out of their way to find them.
Monty was at NSWC Crane, and I believe played a part in MK12 development.
Affirm, but I'm not sure how much was told to be in confidence, so I'll leave it at that. People don't come much better than Monty and Corrie.
I would invite him to this thread, but everytime he posts online it turns into people wanting to hound him about a million things other than the topic, so I think he pretty much abstains from the forums right now. Then again, as busy as he is, its not like he really has loads of free time to surf around the web.
Stopsign32v
10-15-23, 16:43
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squad_Advanced_Marksman_Rifle Shows the SAMR , which was a 20" barrel and looked like a standard M16 from a distance (obviously not up close). You don't see many of those as clone or custom builds as they were not super popular, and the parts were difficult to obtain, especially the folding front sight.
I really like that 20" SAMR. Why would they have what appears to be a polished barrel and at the least a bead blasted barrel? I would never imagine the gov. to deploy a firearm part in the white like that.
Hammer_Man
10-15-23, 19:05
Affirm, but I'm not sure how much was told to be in confidence, so I'll leave it at that. People don't come much better than Monty and Corrie.
I would invite him to this thread, but everytime he posts online it turns into people wanting to hound him about a million things other than the topic, so I think he pretty much abstains from the forums right now. Then again, as busy as he is, it’s not like he really has loads of free time to surf around the web.
His company has really taken off in the last few years, and he and his wife deserve their success. Absolutely amazing people to deal with.
I like building loose clone rifles. I don't care about the minute details some do but from walking up to the rifle I want someone to know it's inspired by a certain rifle...If any of that made sense.
gotcha, so you want a level of visual similarity to the base rifle. In that case I'd actually take a look at the PRI MK12 ($$$$), the BCM QRF (more affordable, but not exactly correct has QR swivel ports), DD (I'm not sure if they were on MK12s but they have quad rails, or the Centurions (Great Rails, but Monty was in the service at the time the MK12 was fielding). Oddly enough, Stick showed you pictures of most of those rails.
I built an SPR inspired 18" rifle in 2010ish using a LaRue 13.2" quad-rail and have not had any regrets. It's still solid and works as it should.
Hammer_Man
10-16-23, 21:04
I built an SPR inspired 18" rifle in 2010ish using a LaRue 13.2" quad-rail and have not had any regrets. It's still solid and works as it should.
Pics or it didn’t happen.
I have the opposite problem where I feel like I could build something lighter and just as accurate as my old kinda heavy MK12 MOD1. The upper is from the first batch MSTN had made with the correct rail, Douglas barrel and unfortunately CA compliant Ops Inc. brake. Supposedly built by someone who also built the military SPRs.
It still shoots like a dream and I made a custom BDC on the Leupold M3 dialed and verified out to 700Y with Hornady 75 TAP and now IMI 77.
My problem is I can't give it up but I also can't build modernized one because that would be, like, cheating.
Real problems...
Dennis.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231017/8dce29ae80b263bdbfae44f7b061e1f6.jpg
Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk
My problem is I can't give it up but I also can't build modernized one because that would be, like, cheating.
Cheating perhaps but I'd like to see that with a Smoke Composites handguard.
Which scope is that?
Cheating perhaps but I'd like to see that with a Smoke Composites handguard.
Which scope is that?Not gonna tear this one apart [emoji6]
It's a Leupold M3, basically the civvy version of the original military scope.
Dennis.
Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk
If you dig the KAC rail just go the extra 2" and so a SAM-R. Per referenced info previous, we did have to have the nut 'fixed' by the armorers, but it was a great rifle.
I like the SPR, but it was a fix looking for a problem.
Pics or it didn’t happen.
Alright :-D
The one in question is behind my "clone" MK12 Mod0
https://i.imgur.com/wuUPeWY.jpg
Hammer_Man
10-17-23, 09:14
Alright :-D
The one in question is behind my "clone" MK12 Mod0
https://i.imgur.com/wuUPeWY.jpg
Nice!! Do you find the 13” Larue makes the rifle more nose heavy than the Mod 0?
Nice!! Do you find the 13” Larue makes the rifle more nose heavy than the Mod 0?
Both are "on display" in my office, so I just picked them up and no, I don't believe the 13" LaRue rail makes it any more nose heavy than the "clone".
Hammer_Man
10-17-23, 10:42
Both are "on display" in my office, so I just picked them up and no, I don't believe the 13" LaRue rail makes it any more nose heavy than the "clone".
Awesome! Since KAC discontinued the FF RAS and URX 3.1, I’ve been thinking about the Larue quad rail. I think you just helped me make my decision.
Stopsign32v
10-17-23, 12:56
Awesome! Since KAC discontinued the FF RAS and URX 3.1, I’ve been thinking about the Larue quad rail. I think you just helped me make my decision.
But why the 13" Larue? Wouldn't that cover the gas block? And I believe I remember reading that the correct Crane gas block has issues fitting under rails.
Hammer_Man
10-17-23, 13:58
But why the 13" Larue? Wouldn't that cover the gas block? And I believe I remember reading that the correct Crane gas block has issues fitting under rails.
If the Crane gas block doesn’t fit I would use a lower profile gas block, like BCM or Centurion.
Awesome! Since KAC discontinued the FF RAS and URX 3.1, I’ve been thinking about the Larue quad rail. I think you just helped me make my decision.
Glad to be of assistance.
But why the 13" Larue? Wouldn't that cover the gas block? And I believe I remember reading that the correct Crane gas block has issues fitting under rails.
The Noveske gas block I have fits under the LaRue rail and it's the same 0.750" journal as the Crane gas block. Just judging by photos but the Crane GB doesn't look too much bigger than the Noveske one. Plus, if Hammer Man is using a LaRue rail, it already isn't a clone correct Mod1, so nothing is stopping him from using a difference (lower profile) gas block.
Stopsign32v
10-17-23, 15:26
The 13" rail looks great though, either way really.
Can you put up a picture of your rail and where it ends in reference of where the gas block is? The Larue 12" wouldn't cover the gas block, correct? (assuming we are talking rifle length gas system)
The 13" rail looks great though, either way really.
Can you put up a picture of your rail and where it ends in reference of where the gas block is? The Larue 12" wouldn't cover the gas block, correct? (assuming we are talking rifle length gas system)
Noveske uses an intermediate gas system, not rifle length. The gas block is about 1.3" behind the the front of the rail. Can't really get a good photo of it.
Stopsign32v
10-17-23, 20:17
Noveske uses an intermediate gas system, not rifle length. The gas block is about 1.3" behind the the front of the rail. Can't really get a good photo of it.
Ah...I wonder where it would be on a rifle length.
Just looked up, the KAC RAS Long was 12 1/4" long. So I guess the Larue 12" would be the best.
Hammer_Man
10-18-23, 04:19
Noveske uses an intermediate gas system, not rifle length. The gas block is about 1.3" behind the the front of the rail. Can't really get a good photo of it.
How do you like the Noveske barrel? I’m sure it’s plenty accurate, but does the intermediate gas system feel any different compared to the rifle length system of your mod-0?
Ah...I wonder where it would be on a rifle length.
Just looked up, the KAC RAS Long was 12 1/4" long. So I guess the Larue 12" would be the best.
The Larue is the closest thing visually to the KAC RAS, but with a better lock up system apparently. That’s what I’d go with if a mod-1 clone is the end goal.
The Larue is the closest thing visually to the KAC RAS, but with a better lock up system apparently. That’s what I’d go with if a mod-1 clone is the end goal.The Daniel Defense M4-12.0 the USAMU used on the Army's SDM-R was a good selection but that's been discontinued. The Larue is a solid legacy quad-rail option, and the BCM is also a visually pretty-close bargain. You can get them marked-down from Primary Arms during holiday sales.
(Not mine):
https://cdn.stamped.io/tr:h-800,/uploads/photos/78965_1101170_774857af_596e_4e3f_b7cb_faeaca639d94.jpg?
Hammer_Man
10-18-23, 07:08
The Daniel Defense M4-12.0 the USAMU used on the Army's SDM-R was a good selection but that's been discontinued. The Larue is a solid legacy quad-rail option, and the BCM is also a visually pretty-close bargain. You can get them marked-down from Primary Arms during holiday sales.
(Not mine):
https://cdn.stamped.io/tr:h-800,/uploads/photos/78965_1101170_774857af_596e_4e3f_b7cb_faeaca639d94.jpg?
That’s a fine looking rifle right there! I like the BCM, but for the longest time they were unavailable, whereas the Larues have been available consistently. I’m not saying the BCM is inferior in anyway, I understand BCM is a good supplier and many people like the QRF.
I like the BCM, but for the longest time they were unavailable, whereas the Larues have been available consistently. I’m not saying the BCM is inferior in anyway, I understand BCM is a good supplier and many people like the QRF.I agree. I really, really like the Larues, and it seems Mark has discontinued a few models to concentrate on best-sellers.
Hammer_Man
10-18-23, 07:29
I agree. I really, really like the Larues, and it seems Mark has discontinued a few models to concentrate on best-sellers.
I was kind of disappointed he discontinued the SAT, as I thought it might make a good URX 3.1 substitute. I’m glad he hasn’t abandoned the quad rail market altogether, as they have been relegated to a niche corner of the market. I also read from a user on TOS that the Larue quad rails are consistently machined more straight than other rails. Take that as you will.
Stopsign32v
10-18-23, 07:57
The Daniel Defense M4-12.0 the USAMU used on the Army's SDM-R was a good selection but that's been discontinued. The Larue is a solid legacy quad-rail option, and the BCM is also a visually pretty-close bargain. You can get them marked-down from Primary Arms during holiday sales.
(Not mine):
https://cdn.stamped.io/tr:h-800,/uploads/photos/78965_1101170_774857af_596e_4e3f_b7cb_faeaca639d94.jpg?
Oh baby!
Does anyone have any idea what scope mount that is?
Stopsign32v
10-18-23, 07:59
I was kind of disappointed he discontinued the SAT, as I thought it might make a good URX 3.1 substitute. I’m glad he hasn’t abandoned the quad rail market altogether, as they have been relegated to a niche corner of the market. I also read from a user on TOS that the Larue quad rails are consistently machined more straight than other rails. Take that as you will.
You're making me nervous that I should get the Larue quad sooner rather than later.
I for one will ALWAY prefer a nice quad over any other rail. But then again I am a very nostalgic person.
Stopsign32v
10-18-23, 08:22
The Daniel Defense M4-12.0 the USAMU used on the Army's SDM-R was a good selection but that's been discontinued.
I'm assuming you aren't refering to this rail, right? https://www.primaryarms.com/daniel-defense-ddm4-rail-mid-length-gas-system-12in
How do you like the Noveske barrel? I’m sure it’s plenty accurate, but does the intermediate gas system feel any different compared to the rifle length system of your mod-0?
The barrel shoots better than I am capable of, I am sure. I have printed countless sub MOA groups at 100y with it using only PPU 75gr BTHP. I have run some Silver State 77gr SMKs through it as well but I don't notice a great improvement in accuracy. I've taken it out to 700yards on steel but with the 2.5-10x Nightforce I couldn't spot hits or misses at 800 so I don't know if it was making it out there or not.
Shooting both rifles with the same ammo, in prone from a bi-pod I don't believe I felt a difference in recoil at all.
I'm assuming you aren't refering to this rail, right? https://www.primaryarms.com/daniel-defense-ddm4-rail-mid-length-gas-system-12in
Not the same rail we are talking about, but since the larue rails weren't used on mainstream MK12s, the DD could be used if someone liked the visual appeal. There are lots of examples where guys brought their own uppers to war. I built up a few that were taken by guys. Most used DD, but they weren't official DOD model guns.
Hammer_Man
10-18-23, 09:20
You're making me nervous that I should get the Larue quad sooner rather than later.
I for one will ALWAY prefer a nice quad over any other rail. But then again I am a very nostalgic person.
I’ve tried a few modern M-lok hand guards over the years (Geissele, Mega Megalithic, and SOLGW), and I prefer quad rails for serious use. One of my biggest gripes is how quickly modern lightweight designs heat up. The only
M-lok rail I’m interested in trying next is the Hodge pinch lock, as it seems to be a bit thicker than most modern designs. Hopefully Larue doesn’t discontinue their quad rails any time soon, as I need to get one for myself.
I'm assuming you aren't refering to this rail, right? https://www.primaryarms.com/daniel-defense-ddm4-rail-mid-length-gas-system-12in
That looks like the rail DD installs on their version of MK12 rifles.
The barrel shoots better than I am capable of, I am sure. I have printed countless sub MOA groups at 100y with it using only PPU 75gr BTHP. I have run some Silver State 77gr SMKs through it as well but I don't notice a great improvement in accuracy. I've taken it out to 700yards on steel but with the 2.5-10x Nightforce I couldn't spot hits or misses at 800 so I don't know if it was making it out there or not.
Shooting both rifles with the same ammo, in prone from a bi-pod I don't believe I felt a difference in recoil at all.
Nice report. Noveske makes some good barrels, I think they supplied barrels for the MK12 mod-H rifles as well. I was considering their SPR barrel for my latest project, but I ended up going with a V Seven 18” match barrel instead.
Stopsign32v
10-18-23, 11:25
Ah ok, this is the DD version talked about above https://www.opticsplanet.com/daniel-defense-m4-12-0-rifle-rail-dd-1006.html
Stopsign32v
10-18-23, 11:26
I really wish the industry would get back with Quad rails.
Then again I wish more automobile companies would focus on manual transmission cars.
Stopsign32v
10-18-23, 11:30
This would be the *new* DDM4 rail on a MK12'ish clone. Pretty clean look I'd say. Not as "accurate" looking as the Larue but looks good.
https://danieldefense.com/media/magefan_blog/How_to_know_how_much_to_spend_on_a_firearm.jpg
Hammer_Man
10-18-23, 15:15
This would be the *new* DDM4 rail on a MK12'ish clone. Pretty clean look I'd say. Not as "accurate" looking as the Larue but looks good.
https://danieldefense.com/media/magefan_blog/How_to_know_how_much_to_spend_on_a_firearm.jpg
I haven’t used one personally, but I’ve handled a couple rifles with this hand guard, and was pretty impressed. It has a smaller diameter than the KAC RAS, and feels pretty comfortable in the hand.
Stopsign32v
10-18-23, 15:17
I haven’t used one personally, but I’ve handled a couple rifles with this hand guard, and was pretty impressed. It has a smaller diameter than the KAC RAS, and feels pretty comfortable in the hand.
I might go that route then. Thanks for that info
Yeah, the DDM4 rail is one of the lightest and thinnest out there for pic rails, and is somehow still pretty solid. The LaRue is even more solid, and almost as light and slim.
For MLok, the LaRue and the KAC URX 4 are at the top of the heap for not being floppy or too thin.
Yeah, the DDM4 rail is one of the lightest and thinnest out there for pic rails, and is somehow still pretty solid. The LaRue is even more solid, and almost as light and slim.
For MLok, the LaRue and the KAC URX 4 are at the top of the heap for not being floppy or too thin.
I think LaRue stopped making their MLok rails.
I think LaRue stopped making their MLok rails.
****.
Oh baby!
Does anyone have any idea what scope mount that is?
Those are ARMS rings.
https://64.media.tumblr.com/7bcc353d9d2f340fb2deb7f47f4f236d/fb49c6d031d41622-3a/s1280x1920/904cb40ec4e0fc4333b28354c75a344a18a16a46.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/d4f663667879181a4211033ff66691f6/0fa08f6bf2b25a59-b2/s1280x1920/2792d728a3decc11ea1d7e04f636c1e0cb7c6cda.jpg
Stopsign32v
10-20-23, 19:01
https://64.media.tumblr.com/d4f663667879181a4211033ff66691f6/0fa08f6bf2b25a59-b2/s1280x1920/2792d728a3decc11ea1d7e04f636c1e0cb7c6cda.jpg
I think that is roughly exactly what I will be going with. Except sadly a different rail.
grizzlygunner999
01-16-24, 18:35
I used the ddm4 rail I love the narrow outside dimensions https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240117/3e76ecc873a7d2f7b8289098aeb4f0ee.jpg
Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk
Hammer_Man
01-18-24, 10:55
I used the ddm4 rail I love the narrow outside dimensions https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240117/3e76ecc873a7d2f7b8289098aeb4f0ee.jpg
Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk
That’s a nice looking rifle! I might go the same route.
geez, it's so tempting to see the rails
Awesome! Since KAC discontinued the FF RAS..
Yeah....about that..
Sent from my SM-A526U using Tapatalk
I used the ddm4 rail I love the narrow outside dimensions https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240117/3e76ecc873a7d2f7b8289098aeb4f0ee.jpg
Sent from my SM-S901U using TapatalkThat's nice looking.
Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk
I just built a accurate modern AR started with a CLE 18" bartlein barrel rifle length gassed.
https://i.imgur.com/MUxgrB0.jpg?6
https://i.imgur.com/eZpRbpW.jpg?1
Grendelshooter
02-11-24, 16:40
https://i.postimg.cc/YSnQpcc6/IMG-9329.jpg
I still need to install the brake and collar. Might even pick up the otter creek version of the AEM5 this year.
If there was a rail closer than the Larue rail I’d use it.
Unfortunately his prices have gone off the deep end so no more of them for me.
Hammer_Man
02-11-24, 19:58
https://i.postimg.cc/YSnQpcc6/IMG-9329.jpg
I still need to install the brake and collar. Might even pick up the otter creek version of the AEM5 this year.
If there was a rail closer than the Larue rail I’d use it.
Unfortunately his prices have gone off the deep end so no more of them for me.
That’s a nice looking rifle!
https://i.postimg.cc/YSnQpcc6/IMG-9329.jpg
I still need to install the brake and collar. Might even pick up the otter creek version of the AEM5 this year.
If there was a rail closer than the Larue rail I’d use it.
Unfortunately his prices have gone off the deep end so no more of them for me.
What optic mount are you using?
https://i.imgur.com/kekUGDOm.jpg
The Warne mount just doesn't work for me.
Grendelshooter
02-22-24, 10:21
What optic mount are you using?
https://i.imgur.com/kekUGDOm.jpg
The Warne mount just doesn't work for me.
Larue SPR.
I grabbed a few several years ago when they were $200-ish.
Now…lol
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