View Full Version : SCAR 16S pics...finally
variablebinary
01-04-09, 21:34
Pics from GB...
http://www.auctionlistingcreator.com/users/toddcam/eBayAuctions/fnscar16s/images/guns49%20001_778603_large.jpg
http://www.auctionlistingcreator.com/users/toddcam/eBayAuctions/fnscar16s/images/guns49%20014_879968_large.jpg
http://www.auctionlistingcreator.com/users/toddcam/eBayAuctions/fnscar16s/images/guns49%20011_970466_large.jpg
rubberneck
01-04-09, 22:06
Looks like they opted for a PWC comp over a flash hider. Hopefully they'll make a version without a folding stock for the AWB states.
I saw that. Kind of a pleasant surprise with the PWS flash hider.
I just wish we knew the word on the hammer forged barrels.
Oh, and can I say for the 50th time how glad I am that FN didn't screw us out of functioning sights? Go to hell Sig 556!
Oh my, the day has finally come.
I cannot wait to buy one.
Interesting....I may have to look into one of these.
John_Wayne777
01-05-09, 07:05
Oh my, the day has finally come.
I cannot wait to buy one.
...and I cannot wait until you've bought it and then decide to part with it for some incomprehensible reason at a decent price like you do with half your other guns. ;)
I found this on another site: http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=120173823
I had thought about picking one of these up until I saw this price tag. Looks like it may be something I just dream of owning.:(
I found this on another site: http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=120173823
I had thought about picking one of these up until I saw this price tag. Looks like it may be something I just dream of owning.:(
Sweet!
C4
WOW! Current bid $6025 with 3 days left. :eek: :confused:
Gun-nut,
Please remember that this is an AUCTION and is not indicative of the real sale price. Unless, you are one of those "I have to have it first" guys I would wait for the market to correct itself.
I am a little disappointed that there isn't something in place to prevent this kind of shenanigans from happening.
I'm definitely not one of the guys that has to have anything first. I typically like to see the bugs worked out of something prior to buying.
Does anyone know what the retail price is?
No Bananas
01-07-09, 09:42
Thanks for the great pics. Exciting. My questions for this gun would be:
1) Is the upper or lower considered to be the actual firearm?
2) If the Barrel is cut-down to SBR length...say 10" or so, would the gas port have to be opened?
CarlosDJackal
01-07-09, 10:05
Not saying anything for or against the SCAR, but I can't believe that someone actually bid more than $6k for it on gunbroker!! :eek:
AirmanAtwood
01-07-09, 10:09
Not saying anything for or against the SCAR, but I can't believe that someone actually bid more than $6k for it on gunbroker!! :eek:
but its gunbroker. How did you not expect a price like that?
People have been known to pay $7000 - 8000 for a Kimber 1911 and $5000 for an HK416 upper so it's no surprise that they'll bid $6000 + for this gun. If/when the gun is widely available to us mortals and affordable, I'd like to get one, since we'll probably won't see the Bushmaster ACR/Magpul Masada anytime soon.
I'd like to get one, since we'll probably won't see the Bushmaster ACR/Magpul Masada anytime soon.
We need a chart that explains the WHO/WHAT/WHERE/WHEN, and most importantly WHY? for all of these damned different guns..... what the status is, Civilian available, etc.
If you handed me any of these things, I couldn't tell you if it was a Masada or a Colada???
Mr.Goodtimes
01-07-09, 12:21
i dont see what the big wow is about the SCAR, i think its big, bulky, and ugly.
i dont see what the big wow is about the SCAR, i think its big, bulky, and ugly.
Looks are a personal thing so I will not get into that. What is does represent is the next evolution of the AR15. With reliability being #1 in importance, it makes an excellent choice.
C4
Derek_Connor
01-07-09, 12:36
Interesting to see the PWS on there and not the blackout..
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-07-09, 12:39
I just have a hard time with those "Mutton Leg" stocks. To me it looks like the case a good AR should come in. Piston, piston, pistons, don't you know its all ball bearings nowadays???
Now, a .308 version, now you are talking something interesting.
30 cal slut
01-07-09, 13:50
i called my stocking FN dealer ... he said that FN is requiring dealers to purchase a minimum of $8,000 of other FN merchandise in order to be able to order ONE SCAR, and $14,000 for two.
ffl said no can do. :(
i guess i won't be buying a SCAR before a potential ban. :(
variablebinary
01-08-09, 09:37
Interesting to see the PWS on there and not the blackout..
I thought that was an interesting choice as well. I personally prefer snag free designs.
Official 16S statement
McLean, Va. (January 5, 2009). FNH USA announces the exciting FN SCAR™ 16S for the civilian enthusiast was delivered to its dealer base at year end 2008. This first group of rifles is part of a one-of-a-kind initial production run.
These limited FN SCAR 16S initial production edition rifles are unique and were specially engraved by FNH USA, LLC on both sides of the receiver rather than on one side only. In addition, this FN SCAR 16S initial production edition rifle has been specially packaged in a durable, lockable, waterproof Hardigg® Storm hard side case that is ideal for storage and transportation. They also have been delivered with a certificate of authenticity.
This Certificate of Authenticity attests that the FN SCAR 16S rifle listed above is part of the initial limited production edition that marks the 2008 introduction of the FN SCAR Semi-Automatic Rifle in the United States of America.
The semi-automatic FN SCAR 16S is a modular, lightweight and highly effective rifle with exceptional durability. It features:
• Free floating, cold hammer-forged MIL-SPEC barrels with hard-chromed bores and three-prong flash suppressors.
• An innovative gas-operated, short stroke piston system for fouling reduction and improved reliability
• Fully ambidextrous operating controls that allow adaptability for any user
• A receiver-integrated MIL-STD 1913 optical rail plus three accessory rails to allow use of a wide variety of tactical lights and lasers.
• A side-folding, polymer stock that is adjustable for comb height and length of pull.
• High-velocity 5.56x45mm NATO (223 Rem.) cartridge chambering.
The SCAR is available in authentic USSOCOM Flat Dark Earth with a 16.25” barrel length and either a 10 or 30-round magazine and weighs only 7.25 lbs. For more details and photographs or to download wallpapers, visit www.fnhusa.com.
And more pics
http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/120287000/120287762/pix2401618125.jpg
http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/120287000/120287762/pix2401614796.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/%3cFA%3eJaws/ah4396258050.jpg
And yes the SCAR is very bulky which offsets the weight savings associated with plastic. It weighs as much as an XCR, which is all metal from front to back, but the XCR is far more streamlined...and better looking. Hopefully I will have my SCAR soon. I am first on the list and cant wait to do a comparison test. I've already had a chance to shoot and handle the SCAR when it was here being shown to Salt Lake County awhile back. I thought it was nifty.
http://home.comcast.net/~firearmspics/XCRvsSCAR2.jpg
And why was this thread moved to GD?
I heard a MSRP somewhere around 3k? is that right gentlmen?
Dinger, nice avatar, that show rocked :D
losbronces
01-08-09, 19:55
I heard a MSRP somewhere around 3k? is that right gentlmen?
Dinger, nice avatar, that show rocked :D
Close to $3,000, from Gunsource:
Item # 98501
MSRP: $2,993.53
variablebinary
01-08-09, 23:42
At the regular 10-15% markup the SCAR should clock in between $2500-2700
try "the Gun Source" - I mean Gun Gougers for $8,000!
http://www.thegunsource.com/item/165983_FN_Herstal_Rifles_Shotguns_FN_SCAR_556x45_Rifle__98501__223_Rem_556NATO__16_barrel__Flat_Dark_Earth__Synthetic_Stock__30rd__Adjustable_Sights.aspx??NID=316
And these guys will screw you in the drive-thru also.
http://www.topglock.com/item/165983_FN_Herstal_Rifles_Shotguns_FN_SCAR_556x45_Rifle__98501__223_Rem_556NATO__16_barrel__Flat_Dark_Earth__Synthetic_Stock__30rd__Adjustable_Sights.aspx??NID=316
Pale Horse
01-09-09, 09:58
I personally would/will never buy products from company's that are charging these kind of prices and I think that people that are prepared to pay $8000.00 + for a SCAR (or any other new 5.56 weapon system) are fools.
I personally would/will never buy products from company's that are charging these kind of prices and I think that people that are prepared to pay $8000.00 + for a SCAR (or any other new 5.56 weapon system) are fools.
Are you talking about the auctions or Top Glock?
C4
Pale Horse
01-09-09, 10:35
Are you talking about the auctions or Top Glock?
C4
Both, I know what the dealer cost is on the SCAR and I know what my dealer will be charging me for it when he gets one in.
Now I can understand paying $10,000.00 to $15,000.00 for a Sig 550 due to the fact they banned from importation and there are very few to be had, but $8000.00 + for a new 5.56 weapon system that isn't banned in insane!.
Yeah but there were only 1000 units produced in the initial batch and they're going to be banned on January 21st! :rolleyes:
Pale Horse
01-09-09, 10:40
Yeah but there were only 1000 units produced in the initial batch and they're going to be banned on January 21st! :rolleyes:
:D
That being said, I'm guessing the SCAR-H (17S) will be going for $16,000.00 on GB.........after all it is twice the gun.......right?
Both, I know what the dealer cost is on the SCAR and I know what my dealer will be charging me for it when he gets one in.
Now I can understand paying $10,000.00 to $15,000.00 for a Sig 550 due to the fact they banned from importation and there are very few to be had, but $8000.00 + for a new 5.56 weapon system that isn't banned in insane!.
Well you should re-think your position (especially on the auction). Remember that the company is NOT driving up the price, the bidders are. ;)
Right now, parts and guns are very rare. Dealers (like myself) that used to make our money on volume cannot get anything in stock. When we do get something, it has to go for a premium so that we can make enough money to stay in business. Since there are VERY few SCAR's out there, dealers should ask whatever the market will bare (as they are only going to get a few) and people should back off the "price gouging" comments.
C4
i really want to pick me one, but i wait till they are more available and can buy one at a reasonable price
Pale Horse
01-09-09, 10:58
"These limited FN SCAR 16S initial production edition rifles are unique and were specially engraved by FNH USA, LLC on both sides of the receiver rather than on one side only".
This was done because the BATFE was not happy with the depth on the engraving on the one side of the rifles that it received, so now we not only have, " limited FN SCAR 16S initial production edition rifles" but they are also "unique" and "were specially engraved", great selling points! :rolleyes:
Pale Horse
01-09-09, 11:21
Well you should re-think your position (especially on the auction). Remember that the company is NOT driving up the price, the bidders are. ;)
Right now, parts and guns are very rare. Dealers (like myself) that used to make our money on volume cannot get anything in stock. When we do get something, it has to go for a premium so that we can make enough money to stay in business. Since there are VERY few SCAR's out there, dealers should ask whatever the market will bare (as they are only going to get a few) and people should back off the "price gouging" comments.
C4
Don't get me wrong Mate, I want a SCAR and I know that it's the bidders that drive the price, it's just that I'm beginning to wonder if the "bidders" in this case have some other motivation.
variablebinary
01-09-09, 14:54
Last night I got to play with the SCAR 16S. I believe it was the first in Utah.
The SCAR 16S is pretty much the same as the SCAR MK16 I shot last year. The finish was a touch weak. After one mag there were signs of wear in the anodizing around the charging handle. I also noticed some wear on the top rail as if something had been mounted, but as far as I knew, the owner hadn't mounted a thing yet. Also, the T marks appeared to be "spray painted" not laser etched. I say this because there was white smears all over the rail around the T marks
The balance sans optics, rail covers, etc etc is very good. Not quite as nose heavy as the XCR-L even though both guns are nearly the same weight. The cheek height adjustment while nice, was left flat and felt good. The controls make sense. However the LOP portion of the stock has a lot of play and feels like it would fail a light drop test. I for sure would never want to pogo the gun to clear a bad jam
The PWS brake is FN stamped, but I didnt really like it. I would have preferred the Advanced Armament 3 prong flash hider that was on the MK16.
And I cannot stress this enough, I do NOT like the charging handle location or the fact that it reciprocates. My thumb can attest to my dislike. It damn near broke my thumb on the first shot. It didnt have a VFG and the charging handle was on the left side. I was gripping the mag well when the charging handle came back and bashed my thumb. Freaking hurt. Lesson learned. When I get mine I will install a VFG or reverse the charging handle.
Note to self, keep thumbs down when shooting SCAR
Also, there is a difference between the mil-spec MK 16 lower and LEO/Civilian 16S lower.
Look at the MK16 in Templar's pic. Notice the lower, before the mag well. There is a single take down pin
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20Advanced%20Carbine%20and%20Pistol%2011-13%20July%2008/TD3/FN%20SCAR-L/P1000675B.jpg?t=1231484754
Here is the 16S lower. It features two pins, or a takedown pin and a block of some type
I don't really know what the extra pin does...yet
http://www.auctionlistingcreator.com/users/toddcam/eBayAuctions/fnscar16s/images/guns49%20003_384971_large.jpg
olds442tyguy
01-09-09, 15:32
It looks like FN changed their anodizing process too. That looks like flat dark poop. It must be the same mix DD uses on their RIS II rails.
QuickStrike
01-09-09, 16:30
So how are the uppers on the civie version different than the real thing? :confused:
RadioActivity
01-10-09, 10:13
The photo's of the anodizing really put me off (not that I wouldn't buy one, but what IS with that color?) I always figured it was the camera flash, but the comparison photos above make me think otherwise.
I hope the SCAR is all its cracked up to be.....I'll wait until subsequent and inevitable generations. No firearm survives mass production without improvements....not even Glock! :p
I don't understand all the shock and hooplah over what people are willing to pay for something. Look at what went on when the PS3 and the iPhone came out, people paying 4x of retail, and all they had to do was wait a few weeks... There was no percieved "fear" on cell phones or game consoles either.
Thanks variablebinary for the report, that makes me look less-forward to getting one though.
And here I was think $1995 for the Noveske Magpul MOE Limited Edition rifle was kinda high! :eek:
That's because they were going for $3k, not $2k.
That's because they were going for $3k, not $2k.
:confused: The last ones that just came out sold for $2k per.
John_Wayne777
01-11-09, 11:23
i dont see what the big wow is about the SCAR, i think its big, bulky, and ugly.
Having shot one, I can tell you that your impressions aren't correct. It's a lot more svelte and light than it looks in the pictures.
Jay Cunningham
01-11-09, 17:26
It's a lot more svelte and light than it looks in the pictures.
A lot like you!!1!
variablebinary
01-11-09, 18:39
FN finally has a page on their site: http://www.fnhusa.com/le/products/test/family.asp?fid=FNF054&gid=FNG006
tombirdman
01-11-09, 18:57
I just have a hard time with those "Mutton Leg" stocks. To me it looks like the case a good AR should come in. Piston, piston, pistons, don't you know its all ball bearings nowadays???
Now, a .308 version, now you are talking something interesting.
:confused:
I think, for the price, I would rather have a " DSA STG58 or metric FAL.
The only advantages I see with the SCAR are the WOW factor, ambidextrous and the cheek weld stock. The quick change barrel is not so quick and requires special tools. The interchangability factor would be great for a large organazation but not the individual. So I guess i'll stick with my AR, Sig 556 Swat, FN FS2000, PS90, DSA STG58, M1A Supermatch, M1 Garand, M1 Carbine, MSAR STG556, AK47, and SKS's.
I really don't see anything here that makes me sell them off just to have one of the firs SCARS.
It is, without a doubt, a great gun but for the price = forget it.
The word is that even when they become common, they will be over $2,500. They may be a $1,500 to $2,000 gun but no more.
Tom
.
variablebinary
01-12-09, 06:18
i dont see what the big wow is about the SCAR, i think its big, bulky, and ugly.
To the eye, it is bulky, especially when compared to an XCR or an AR15. The bulk is why it clocks in at 7.4lbs despite the liberal use of polymer.
However, the balance is very good and the SCAR swings and shoulders really nice, even with the 16" barrel. It isn't as nose heavy as your typical off the rack RRA Entry Tactical, which weigh 7.5lbs.
You'd have to play with it first hand to see what I mean, but when you pick it up it feels really light compared to how it looks
John_Wayne777
01-12-09, 06:49
A lot like you!!1!
http://alteredconfusion.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/darth-vader-soul-calibur-iv.jpg
Don't make me destroy you....
Robb Jensen
01-12-09, 07:03
Star Wars nerds...:eek: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugk37TvIR8E)
The 16" SCAR is very well balanced and very lightweight, it's about the same weight as my 10" SBR and has the same balance (w/o the suppressor mounted).
CarlosDJackal
01-12-09, 10:08
A lot like you!!1!
Oh no he didn't!! :eek:
I havent spent much time online lately but when I saw the price just now at GB.com I was cursing up a storm.
I expected mid $2K to low $3K but $5000.00 to $7000.00 (G** F***** D***) looks like I'll keep a eye out for a LMT Tan or black sopmod lower.
(grumbles)
I havent spent much time online lately but when I saw the price just now at GB.com I was cursing up a storm.
I expected mid $2K to low $3K but $5000.00 to $7000.00 (G** F***** D***) looks like I'll keep a eye out for a LMT Tan or black sopmod lower.
(grumbles)
Apparently you missed the one that sold for over $8000.
Spooky
variablebinary
01-13-09, 17:57
Apparently you missed the one that sold for over $8000.
Spooky
You mean over $9000. No I am not joking
You mean over $9000. No I am not joking
EGAD'S :eek:
Thats friggin insane.
The Dumb Gun Collector
01-17-09, 04:01
When this rifle floats down into the 2k-3k range I will be all over it.
The SCAR doesn't do much for me either...meh.
But I hope the guys that like it, get their world rocked by it! :)
The SCAR doesn't do much for me either...meh.
But I hope the guys that like it, get their world rocked by it! :)
...+1...
The SCAR doesn't do much for me either...meh.
But I hope the guys that like it, get their world rocked by it! :)
It better be a whole lot of rocking for $6000-8000!
Jay Cunningham
01-17-09, 13:10
It better be a whole lot of rocking for $6000-8000!
Those auction prices are just the "I need to be the first kid on the block to own my super cool toy so I can post pics of it on the internet then lock it in my safe" phenomenon.
No Bananas
01-17-09, 13:58
This, really, is beyond panic, let alone any degree of reason. I seriously can't believe that people are actually paying $8000 for this gun. It may be ergonomic, has a piston, some cool trinkits. But it isn't full auto, it doesn't spin gold, and it won't help you win matches any better than an AR, XCR, Sig 556, STG-556 or whatever. I hope it's a bunch of doctors, lawyers, trust-fund babies, etc. I hope it ain't common folk raiding their savings, or worse, puting it on their CC. Maybe it won't be a bad investment, if a ban happens quickly (unlikely). But my understanding is that most folks aren't buying em for investment. No matter if for investment or shooting, if a bunch of SCARs start coming in and the prices come down to the 2700 MSRP range, wow, a lot of folks are gonns feel dumb....or at least they should :rolleyes:.
Ok, a resurrection thread here. Is either the SCAR-L or the SCAR-H currently being fielded (actual bad guy use) by USSOCOM personnel? Just curious because we have a guy here who did some of the trials when he was in Ranger Batt. and he asked. Thanks.
A friend of mine was in Quantico and saw them in the armory. That's all I got.
Variablebinary,
Since you've handled and shot both the SCAR and the XCR, which do you feel is a better overall weapon system?
Personally, I can't see the SCAR offering anything over my XCR.....but based on your review I can name several things that my XCR beats out the SCAR on not including that I can go pick up a second XCR for $1400.
variablebinary
02-15-09, 14:37
Variablebinary,
Since you've handled and shot both the SCAR and the XCR, which do you feel is a better overall weapon system?
Personally, I can't see the SCAR offering anything over my XCR.....but based on your review I can name several things that my XCR beats out the SCAR on not including that I can go pick up a second XCR for $1400.
I did a big write up on xcrforum.com on how they compare side by side.
Here is what I think the SCAR does better: Balance, more ambi controls, stock versatility, factory sights
XCR is better at: Ergonomics and control layout, durability, QD barrel system, less parts, bolt design, factory multi caliber support, Fieldstripping and maintenance, less bulky, adjustable gas system, more rail-estate
Overall it's close between the two, but the XCR does its magic for $1000 cheaper.
Is it just me or does anyone else feel like the handguard should be longer on the SCAR?
It just seems like there is too much uncovered barrel sticking out.
I did a big write up on xcrforum.com on how they compare side by side.
Here is what I think the SCAR does better: Balance, more ambi controls, stock versatility, factory sights
XCR is better at: Ergonomics and control layout, durability, QD barrel system, less parts, bolt design, factory multi caliber support, Fieldstripping and maintenance, less bulky, adjustable gas system, more rail-estate
Overall it's close between the two, but the XCR does its magic for $1000 cheaper.
Wasn't the XCR RobArm's SCAR entry? If so, interesting comparison.
Wasn't the XCR RobArm's SCAR entry? If so, interesting comparison.
Perhaps Variablebinary can correct me if I'm wrong, the XCR competed in some of the trials, but they couldn't be considered for the contract because they did not have a barrel attachement for shooting blanks during training. All reports I've heard from those trials have high marks for the XCR.
RA is not new to field testing of their designs. In 2002 they came up with a prototype M96 styled select fire rifle for military use in 7.62x39mm. It saw some field testing in Afghanistan and also had high marks, but was considered too heavy with all its stamped stainless steel construction. This was one of many reasons which led to the developement of the lighter, more refined XCR design which was actually conceived prior to FN's SCAR design.
RA has gotten some flak from a few military guys. Reason being, on some aspects of the XCR, Alex wanted to advance and improve on certain aspect of the M4, while a lot of end users didn't want to alter their training and muscle memory for a new system. The hold open bolt feature was designed to be fully ambidextrous, and you can lock back the bolt while not having to release your grip.....with an M4 and the SCAR it is not ambi and you must release your grip in order to lock back the bolt. Another aspect was that a lot of LEOs wanted the XCR to maintain a fore end that would work with M4 gun locks. Alex decided that he wanted to have a floating barrel with plenty of room for good cooling, and room for heavy bull barrels and other calibers in a modular receiver. Then of course, RA chose to keep the 1/9" twist rate in order to ensure longer barrel life and ensure that users could shoot the lighter loads with no problems......1/9 is the most versitile and many of the superior 5.56 loads are in the 60gr-69gr anyway. So, Alex has a history of upsetting some high profile people because he decided to break away from the status quo in favor of taking designs in more logical directions independent of opinions of the times. After all, we would never have gotten the M16 family of weapons had the military not decided to break away from user familiarity and adopt design advancements.
SinnFéinM1911
02-15-09, 22:33
Perhaps Variablebinary can correct me if I'm wrong, the XCR competed in some of the trials, but they couldn't be considered for the contract because they did not have a barrel attachement for shooting blanks during training. All reports I've heard from those trials have high marks for the XCR.
RA is not new to field testing of their designs. In 2002 they came up with a prototype M96 styled select fire rifle for military use in 7.62x39mm. It saw some field testing in Afghanistan and also had high marks, but was considered too heavy with all its stamped stainless steel construction. This was one of many reasons which led to the developement of the lighter, more refined XCR design which was actually conceived prior to FN's SCAR design.
RA has gotten some flak from a few military guys. Reason being, on some aspects of the XCR, Alex wanted to advance and improve on certain aspect of the M4, while a lot of end users didn't want to alter their training and muscle memory for a new system. The hold open bolt feature was designed to be fully ambidextrous, and you can lock back the bolt while not having to release your grip.....with an M4 and the SCAR it is not ambi and you must release your grip in order to lock back the bolt. Another aspect was that a lot of LEOs wanted the XCR to maintain a fore end that would work with M4 gun locks. Alex decided that he wanted to have a floating barrel with plenty of room for good cooling, and room for heavy bull barrels and other calibers in a modular receiver. Then of course, RA chose to keep the 1/9" twist rate in order to ensure longer barrel life and ensure that users could shoot the lighter loads with no problems......1/9 is the most versitile and many of the superior 5.56 loads are in the 60gr-69gr anyway. So, Alex has a history of upsetting some high profile people because he decided to break away from the status quo in favor of taking designs in more logical directions independent of opinions of the times. After all, we would never have gotten the M16 family of weapons had the military not decided to break away from user familiarity and adopt design advancements.
Why do you need a ambi bolt catch? How does a 1/9 give you longer bbl life? The SCAR bbl lasts 25K.
XCR is better at: ...durability
I was thinking the same thing. How do people here know the XCR is more durable than the SCAR? :confused:
Cameron
SinnFéinM1911
02-15-09, 23:14
I was thinking the same thing. How do people here know the XCR is more durable than the SCAR? :confused:
Cameron
I have personally fired a couple houndred thousand rounds through the SCAR system. The program has about 3 MILLION + rounds tested. It is one of the MOST tested firearms in the history of small arms. No other system currenty feilded has gone through this level of testing.
Heavy Metal
02-15-09, 23:21
I have personally fired a couple houndred thousand rounds through the SCAR system. The program has about 3 MILLION + rounds tested. It is one of the MOST tested firearms in the history of small arms. No other system currenty feilded has gone through this level of testing.
Want to trade jobs?:D
I have personally fired a couple houndred thousand rounds through the SCAR system. The program has about 3 MILLION + rounds tested. It is one of the MOST tested firearms in the history of small arms. No other system currenty feilded has gone through this level of testing.
Finally, maybe I can get the information I'm looking for.
How has the SCAR's 7 lug bolt performed? Does it develop cracking on the lugs, and at how many rounds? Have you seen some lugs break, and at how many rounds? What about the cam pin hole, any issues documented there? Cracks, breakage, at how many rounds?
Gimme watcha got!:D
I have personally fired a couple houndred thousand rounds through the SCAR system. The program has about 3 MILLION + rounds tested. It is one of the MOST tested firearms in the history of small arms. No other system currenty feilded has gone through this level of testing.
That's exactly my point, it is my understanding that the FN SCAR is perhaps the most comprehensively tested small arm to date. I know people are given to hyperbole when extolling the virtues of their favourite "X" but I cannot see how any one can currently questioning the durability of the FN SCAR, let alone compare it to the XCR.
Thanks again for you input in the forum, it's appreciated.
I am looking forward to getting my hands on an FN SCAR soon.
Cameron
SinnFéinM1911
02-15-09, 23:56
Finally, maybe I can get the information I'm looking for.
How has the SCAR's 7 lug bolt performed? Does it develop cracking on the lugs, and at how many rounds? Have you seen some lugs break, and at how many rounds? What about the cam pin hole, any issues documented there? Cracks, breakage, at how many rounds?
Gimme watcha got!:D
Kal,
The SCAR bolts have 6 lugs. There were issues early on, but it was traced back to material (from vendor) issues. Now, the Mk16 & Mk17 bolts are to be replaced no earlier than 15K.
Hope that helps.
variablebinary
02-16-09, 01:18
I was thinking the same thing. How do people here know the XCR is more durable than the SCAR? :confused:
Cameron
That's exactly my point, it is my understanding that the FN SCAR is perhaps the most comprehensively tested small arm to date. I know people are given to hyperbole when extolling the virtues of their favourite "X" but I cannot see how any one can currently questioning the durability of the FN SCAR, let alone compare it to the XCR.
Thanks again for you input in the forum, it's appreciated.
I am looking forward to getting my hands on an FN SCAR soon.
Cameron
I'm open to having my mind changed. When you get a SCAR, bring it to one of our shoots. CO is very close to UT.
I'll be more than happy to provide the XCR and the sledgehammer and we'll see which one breaks first.
In all seriousness, we can talk about it, or we can be about it. Bring your SCAR and lets put action to words.
Furthermore the flaw in your logic is you believe in saying the XCR is more durable, I am questioning the durability of the SCAR. Not true. I've had nothing but mostly positive remarks about the SCAR since shooting it. I've highlighted that which I like, and that which I don't. I was impressed enough to speak with my dollars and order a SCAR with no definite delivery date. (Brett...Help a brotha out...It's been 8 weeks now...)
Lastly, I have shot the XCR and SCAR. Have you ? Did you even fondle or take them both down and examine the materials used in the designs, or are you using marketing materials as your only reference point? Living vicariously is a really poor way to formulate an opinion on a firearm.
SF1911,
If you can answer this, would you please advise whether or not the SCAR is actually being fielded by units and not just being tested? Thanks.
Living vicariously is a really poor way to formulate an opinion on a firearm.
Hey no one is slamming your XCR mate, take a breath.
I was just interested that people have made comments about the durability but I was not aware of anyone actually being in a position to test the SCAR outside of FN's testing. It was you that specifically said:
XCR is better at: Ergonomics and control layout, durability, QD barrel system, less parts, bolt design, factory multi caliber support, Fieldstripping and maintenance, less bulky, adjustable gas system, more rail-estate.
Now I know you are an XCR fan, and that ergonomics are subjective, and you are probably right about parts count etc but the durability part I found interesting.
How did you determine that the XCR is more durable than the SCAR, beyond fondling and an examination of the materials used in design?
As you are someone with a lot more experience with the rifles in question the I have, I am very interested to see how you came to that conclusion.
I have shot, and have a little experience with the XCR, but none with the SCAR, and while I certainly try not to use vicarious living to formulate an opinion, I do like to seek the knowledge of those who have it, to help me make informed decisions.
Cameron
Hope that helps.
Yes it did, thank you!
Looks are a personal thing so I will not get into that. What is does represent is the next evolution of the AR15. With reliability being #1 in importance, it makes an excellent choice.
C4
From CT SWAT Challenge where FN had a booth. Fired the heavy and the light version on the line briefly, so can't give any solid review. The heavy is handful as one would expect. My very short range time with them gave good impressions in terms of feel, ergonomics, and such, but that's about all I can say. I'm not an expert regarding these platforms, but I would prefer a 416 from my limited experience with both.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b374/willbrink/swatchallengpic-1-1.jpg
SF1911,
If you can answer this, would you please advise whether or not the SCAR is actually being fielded by units and not just being tested? Thanks.
Distribution for fielding will begin next month (March 2009) - I'm not sure if who / what and how many is open source, so I'm going to leave that alone.
Hope this helps,
Clint
Lastly, I have shot the XCR and SCAR. Have you ? Did you even fondle or take them both down and examine the materials used in the designs, or are you using marketing materials as your only reference point? Living vicariously is a really poor way to formulate an opinion on a firearm.
How did you determine what materials are used in the designs (of either firearm)?
Would any of you FN guys happen to know approximately how many SCAR 16s' will be released on the Civy market per month?
I don't want to see FN begging for a Stimulus Check- so I'll be donating what ever they give me.
More importantly will they be available to dealers who won't throw them on Gun Broker at the earliest opportunity to watch the insane bidding wars which will ensue.
Would any of you FN guys happen to know approximately how many SCAR 16s' will be released on the Civy market per month?
I don't want to see FN begging for a Stimulus Check- so I'll be donating what ever they give me.
variablebinary
02-16-09, 17:32
I do like to seek the knowledge of those who have it, to help me make informed decisions.
Cameron
That's fine, however, however that isnt what you said
I know people are given to hyperbole when extolling the virtues of their favourite "X" but I cannot see how any one can currently questioning the durability of the FN SCAR, let alone compare it to the XCR.
This is exactly what the direct gas zombies do when put in a position of comparing an AR15 to a SCAR. They retort with something like
"I know people are given to hyperbole when extolling the virtues of the SCAR but I cannot see how anyone can currently question the reliability of the AR15, let alone compare it to the SCAR which is unfielded and unproven while the AR15 has a 40 year track record"
Lets put the marketing brochures aside, and have a kool-aid free discussion if that's what you really want to do.
Some people will have an issue conceding the XCR does things well. Even more will have a problem conceding the SCAR does anything well, period. I am not part of either of those camps.
Lets put the marketing brochures aside, and have a kool-aid free discussion if that's what you really want to do.
Again, no one is trying to deride your XCR, or the fact that you are entitled to your opinion.
Now both clynch and I are interested how you, kool-aid and marketing brochures aside, came to the conclusion that...
XCR is better at: ...durability, ...
That was my initial question:
How did you determine that the XCR is more durable than the SCAR, beyond fondling and an examination of the materials used in design?
I am just unsure how those not involved in the testing done by FN have had a chance to ascertain the durability of the FN SCAR, and especially how it compares to the HK416 and as you compared it to the XCR??
How is the SCAR less durable than the XCR?
How is the XCR more durable than the SCAR?
Cameron
losbronces
02-16-09, 18:22
More importantly will they be available to dealers who won't throw them on Gun Broker at the earliest opportunity to watch the insane bidding wars which will ensue.
I don't think those prices are sustainable long-term. How many people are going to keep paying $8,000 or more for what will ultimately be a commercially available $3,000 rifle?
How is the SCAR less durable than the XCR?
How is the XCR more durable than the SCAR?
Materials aside, from a design standpoint the XCR bolt design will be inheritantly more durable as it is a thick 3-lug design made from high shock stainless steel with a solid steel sheath around the firing pin. The bolt carrier is attached to the recoil rod from the front and rear with a large contact area. The two stage trigger has its catch near the top of the hammer instead of the bottom to decrease torque on the catch. Other observed durability differences I've seen in the two are that the standard XCR model has a very durable folding stock which can handle a great deal of abuse, and the extruded aluminum upper and lower of the XCR is very thick, with solid connecting pieces.
I know this is an issue in other firearms, but the SCAR has a LOT of exposed attachement screws all over the upper and lower receiver. I haven't bothered counting them exept in photos in which I count around 20. The XCR only has one receiver screw for the case deflector, and two for the ejector.....that's it. Shooting vibrations always losen these up and with the XCR, there are only 3 to manage with constant retightening or the use of loc-tite. The XCR's assembly locks together with large, durable parts that do not come loose, nor do they require a lot of time and attention to ensure their sound condition. Until you've handled one, taken it apart, and had some range time with it you just can't appreciate it from net accounts and pictures.
Other advantages I've observed with the XCR design is that its magazine rests several milimeters higher than most other rifles. This means that as a cartridge is stripped off the magazine, its feeding angle is less steep as it goes from magazine to chamber. This means less friction during feeding and it only takes the slightest spring pressure to fully chamber a cartridge. Because of this design, the XCR also does not use a typical feed ramp. The cartridges ride along a cartridge guide which does not impact the nose of the bullet. So, virtually no chance of a hang-ups with even the wides of JHP bullets or damaged noses of your choice of ammunition.
So really the idea that the XCR is more durable comes down to an observation of the features rather than any type of real world testing. So more of an informed opinion rather than an actually tested and verified result. I thought this was the case.
Thanks Marcus I appreciate your candor.
Cameron
SinnFéinM1911
02-16-09, 20:51
I know this is an issue in other firearms, but the SCAR has a LOT of exposed attachement screws all over the upper and lower receiver. I haven't bothered counting them exept in photos in which I count around 20. The XCR only has one receiver screw for the case deflector, and two for the ejector.....that's it. Shooting vibrations always losen these up and with the XCR, there are only 3 to manage with constant retightening or the use of loc-tite. The XCR's assembly locks together with large, durable parts that do not come loose, nor do they require a lot of time and attention to ensure their sound condition. Until you've handled one, taken it apart, and had some range time with it you just can't appreciate it from net accounts and pictures.
Again with millions of rounds fired, we have NOT had issues with the receiver screws in testing. DT or Operational.
Let me also say this before I continue. I had fired the XCR and I like it, ill prb buy one this year. I have a lot of respect for Alex. I have had a few constructive conversations with him in the past.
What I DO NOT respect if ill informed individuals who try and speak out of line and on issues they have no experience on.
The spread misinformation and unproven ascertains is just ignorance.
But then again what do I know.
V, this not intended towards you.
SinnFéinM1911
02-16-09, 20:59
Why do you need a ambi bolt catch? How does a 1/9 give you longer bbl life? The SCAR bbl lasts 25K.
Oh, Marcus L, I didnt see you response to this. I look forward to hearing your opinion on it.
Regards
Again with millions of rounds fired, we have NOT had issues with the receiver screws in testing. DT or Operational.
Let me also say this before I continue. I had fired the XCR and I like it, ill prb buy one this year. I have a lot of respect for Alex. I have had a few constructive conversations with him in the past.
What I DO NOT respect if ill informed individuals who try and speak out of line and on issues they have no experience on.
The spread misinformation and unproven ascertains is just ignorance.
But then again what do I know.
V, this not intended towards you.
Perhaps you could address my critique of certain aspects of the SCAR in a more constructive and informative manner than:
"I'm the Industry Professional, so I know best and you know nothing"
Surely a representative of FN could give more detail on why they believe their design is superior to competators and give examples as to why my points are not applicable. At this point my opinion of FN is decaying..... I wouldn't say I'm a basher of FN products. In fact, my duty rifle is a select fire M4 made by FN.
I don't design firearms, but I use them extensively in Federal service and train other officers. I do evaluate ammunition and equipment purchases for 176 officers in my region based on testing results obtained from other agencies and what we do ourselves. I am also a Sig Sauer P-series armorer, a M16/M4 armorer, and a Remington 11-87/870 armorer. I know a little.....but certainly not as much as you I suppose :rolleyes:
Oh, Marcus L, I didnt see you response to this. I look forward to hearing your opinion on it.
Regards
Simple, an ambi bolt catch allows lefties and righties to lock/release the bolt without releasing their primary hand from the grip. Unfortuately, I cannot locate the 1988 DOD tests that determined that the 1/12 twist rate of early M16 variants had an average service life roughly double that of the faster twist rates. Perhaps someone else reading this can locate an online source of this paper for me......
With the testing the SCAR has undergone, it's durability is pretty much a known quantity. If and when the XCR is tested under similar conditions, it's durability will also be known. Until then, it is still an open question despite the obvious efforts of the designer(s). It certainly may be designed well, and might even be more durable than a SCAR, but the FN product has been tested to a higher standard than any other small arm.
If merely looking at a firearm would give an accurate estimate of it's durability, no one would ever buy a Glock. Field stripping one is like taking apart a Bic pen. But they last for 10's of thousands of rounds.
SinnFéinM1911
02-16-09, 22:36
Perhaps you could address my critique of certain aspects of the SCAR in a more constructive and informative manner than:
"I'm the Industry Professional, so I know best and you know nothing"
Surely a representative of FN could give more detail on why they believe their design is superior to competators and give examples as to why my points are not applicable. At this point my opinion of FN is decaying..... I wouldn't say I'm a basher of FN products. In fact, my duty rifle is a select fire M4 made by FN.
I don't design firearms, but I use them extensively in Federal service and train other officers. I do evaluate ammunition and equipment purchases for 176 officers in my region based on testing results obtained from other agencies and what we do ourselves. I am also a Sig Sauer P-series armorer, a M16/M4 armorer, and a Remington 11-87/870 armorer. I know a little.....but certainly not as much as you I suppose :rolleyes:
All you have said is how negative the SCAR can perform and in its design, and how superior the XCR is in both categories. If you like to go back and read all of my post on this board I act and react very professionally. However, when people like to bash a product they know nothing about it gets to me.
I’m not saying that I know all, but I have plenty of experience firing both rifles (and many others) you have spoke about, some much more than others. So, that is not what I’m saying at all, but I have read many of your posts on different threads and almost everyone, no matter who the thread is talking about is compared to the XCR and then YOU talk down about the designs of the competitors on that thread.
Also, as to your comment referring to “Surely a representative of FN could give more detail on why they believe their design is superior to competators and give examples as to why my points are not applicable” I don’t talk about my competitors. I let my weapons speak for themselves. You are the only one stating why the XCR is an superior firearm. If you have questions in this arena about the SCAR Id be more than happy to help.
If you think I am displaying a less then professional manner, Ill apologize, but until you have enough experience on both systems, I don’t think its very fair of you to make inexperienced judgments.
Do you think 25K is to little for barrel life on a assault rifle? I have had SCAR barrels go as far as 40K. Is that enough?
I do not feel I need to justify the SCAR, its been tested. But you are making claims that simply are not true. ( in referring to the receiver screw comments)
I think the 7.62x39 that RA designed in a nice piece of Kit and some friends of mine have used it operationally and like it. Again, as I have said before I like their products, I like them a lot.
On the SCAR you DO NOT need to let off your grip to lock the bolt to the rear. All you would need to do is keep you hand on the pistol grip and pull back on charging handle and engage the bolt catch / release (if your rifle has the charging handle on the left hand side). If it is on the right, then you are correct, you would have to use two hands to lock it to the rear. HOWEVER, to release the bolt, it can be on either side and you would not have to come off you grip.
Just one more thing, how do you know when FN conceived the design for the SCAR?
If you have any questions I’d be more than happy to help.
variablebinary
02-17-09, 01:35
No gun is all good or all bad.
I like the SCAR and will own a SCAR as soon as FN gets my gun delievered to my dealer.
However I dont think the SCAR does all things better than the XCR. In some areas the XCR is flat out better, in some ways they are tied, and then there are ways the SCAR has very tangible advantages
If that is too much for someone to handle, so be it.
The title of this Thread was "SCAR 16S pics...finially". Myself and many others get sick of these threads turning into a "THIS is better" thread.
There is already at least 2 other threads that discuss XCR vs. SCAR vs. ACR vs. [insert your favorite gun here].
I really appreciate the FN guys posting about their products; I only wish we had some Robinson guys who would post in the threads pertaining to their weapons.
Thanks again FN Guys, keep us posted.
Jay Cunningham
02-17-09, 06:24
Dave L. raises a very good point. Please keep this thread on topic. If you want to post about your XCR or whatever then please start a new thread.
The title of this Thread was "SCAR 16S pics...finially". Myself and many others get sick of these threads turning into a "THIS is better" thread.
There is already at least 2 other threads that discuss XCR vs. SCAR vs. ACR vs. [insert your favorite gun here].
I really appreciate the FN guys posting about their products; I only wish we had some Robinson guys who would post in the threads pertaining to their weapons.
Thanks again FN Guys, keep us posted.
+1
Cam
Jay Cunningham
02-17-09, 06:26
Perhaps you could address my critique of certain aspects of the SCAR in a more constructive and informative manner than:
"I'm the Industry Professional, so I know best and you know nothing"
This forum designates a very choice few members with the title of Industry Professional. These are individuals who have extensive first hand experience with the deployment of small arms, execution of proper tactics, or development of the past or current military weapons platforms. Generally speaking, they are well compensated for the information that they provide; and providing information on a free internet forum is a service to us all. Often in an internet forum other posters may not recognize the individual behind certain screen names or have checked their screen name bio. This title is a helpful tool for a viewer to identify such individuals. You are welcome to disagree with their opinion (debate is one of the best ways to fully understand and exchange information), but please take a moment to recognize where their experience and information comes from.
Dave L. raises a very good point. Please keep this thread on topic. If you want to post about your XCR or whatever then please start a new thread.
Very well, then there is nothing left in this thread for me to discuss. Ciao.
There are alot of people here who think that because they fired a few magazines of free ammo through a gun at a demo they can speak to every aspect of its design. That is ****ing ridiculous. I do this gun design thing every day and even I know better than to make assumptions or hair-trigger opinions based solely on pictures I've seen or the few minutes I was able to spend with a gun at a trade show.
Perhaps Variablebinary can correct me if I'm wrong, the XCR competed in some of the trials, but they couldn't be considered for the contract because they did not have a barrel attachement for shooting blanks during training. All reports I've heard from those trials have high marks for the XCR.
Well I've "heard" that the XCR didn't pass the Go / No-Go criteria for acceptance for testing, and was dead-lined before it ever fired a round. Until I see an unclassified test report I guess I'll never know for sure. What is obvious to me however is that the FN entry was selected, and others were not. All other arguments are moot.
Materials aside, from a design standpoint the XCR bolt design will be inheritantly more durable as it is a thick 3-lug design made from high shock stainless steel with a solid steel sheath around the firing pin. The bolt carrier is attached to the recoil rod from the front and rear with a large contact area. The two stage trigger has its catch near the top of the hammer instead of the bottom to decrease torque on the catch. Other observed durability differences I've seen in the two are that the standard XCR model has a very durable folding stock which can handle a great deal of abuse, and the extruded aluminum upper and lower of the XCR is very thick, with solid connecting pieces.
The 3-lug bolt with it's integral cam lug is also found in the FN FNC - a design that pre-dates the XCR by decades - before that it was and is still found in the AK - a design that pre-dates most of the members of this board. Yes, an AK type bolt can be very robust - it also means you have to rotate it farther (more stress on the cam surfaces; longer cam and receiver therefore), and you increase the likelihood that forces on the lugs will not be distributed evenly (which can adversely affect accuracy).
We conceived the 7.62 variant of the SCAR at roughly the same time as the 5.56 - this drove numerous aspects of the design, and is the main reason the rifle appears or feels bigger than a 5.56-specific gun "needs" to be. We chose the multi-lug bolt design for a reason, and it works for us.
I know this is an issue in other firearms, but the SCAR has a LOT of exposed attachement screws all over the upper and lower receiver. I haven't bothered counting them exept in photos in which I count around 20. The XCR... The XCR's assembly locks together with large, durable parts that do not come loose, nor do they require a lot of time and attention to ensure their sound condition. Until you've handled one, taken it apart, and had some range time with it you just can't appreciate it from net accounts and pictures.
Your comments above seem somewhat contradictory. You're extolling the virtues of first-hand experience just a few sentences after you're counting screws in photos... Do you have any first hand experience with the SCAR platform or seen any maintenance reports? I'm curious as to why it's OK that the XCR has screws that could vibrate loose, as long as there are fewer of them - I could argue that having more screws is actually good for redundancy, but that's really not the case. It is a welcome side effect, however.
However I dont think the SCAR does all things better than the XCR. In some areas the XCR is flat out better, in some ways they are tied, and then there are ways the SCAR has very tangible advantages
I find it interesting how somehow you (again) manage to not allow yourself to use the words "better" and "FN SCAR" in the same sentence, even if in reference to some small attribute of the gun... It says volumes, in my opinion.
Would any of you FN guys happen to know approximately how many SCAR 16s' will be released on the Civy market per month?
I have heard different numbers but can't say for sure - the military side of operations is pretty separated from the commercial side, so I don't have a lot of info to share regarding the civvy model.
Lastly, my apologies to the members, Moderators, and Staff for keeping the thread off-topic. Like Brett, I'm not a fan of seeing the wrong information continue to spread, particularly when it pertains to something I work with on a daily basis.
Stay safe all,
Clint
Voodoochild
02-17-09, 10:02
Clint seems like a fairly straight forward rebuttal to me. No need to apologize.
03humpalot
02-17-09, 12:00
There are alot of people here who think that because they fired a few magazines of free ammo through a gun at a demo they can speak to every aspect of its design. That is ****ing ridiculous. I do this gun design thing every day and even I know better than to make assumptions or hair-trigger opinions based solely on pictures I've seen or the few minutes I was able to spend with a gun at a trade show.
Well I've "heard" that the XCR didn't pass the Go / No-Go criteria for acceptance for testing, and was dead-lined before it ever fired a round. Until I see an unclassified test report I guess I'll never know for sure. What is obvious to me however is that the FN entry was selected, and others were not. All other arguments are moot.
The 3-lug bolt with it's integral cam lug is also found in the FN FNC - a design that pre-dates the XCR by decades - before that it was and is still found in the AK - a design that pre-dates most of the members of this board. Yes, an AK type bolt can be very robust - it also means you have to rotate it farther (more stress on the cam surfaces; longer cam and receiver therefore), and you increase the likelihood that forces on the lugs will not be distributed evenly (which can adversely affect accuracy).
We conceived the 7.62 variant of the SCAR at roughly the same time as the 5.56 - this drove numerous aspects of the design, and is the main reason the rifle appears or feels bigger than a 5.56-specific gun "needs" to be. We chose the multi-lug bolt design for a reason, and it works for us.
Your comments above seem somewhat contradictory. You're extolling the virtues of first-hand experience just a few sentences after you're counting screws in photos... Do you have any first hand experience with the SCAR platform or seen any maintenance reports? I'm curious as to why it's OK that the XCR has screws that could vibrate loose, as long as there are fewer of them - I could argue that having more screws is actually good for redundancy, but that's really not the case. It is a welcome side effect, however.
I find it interesting how somehow you (again) manage to not allow yourself to use the words "better" and "FN SCAR" in the same sentence, even if in reference to some small attribute of the gun... It says volumes, in my opinion.
I have heard different numbers but can't say for sure - the military side of operations is pretty separated from the commercial side, so I don't have a lot of info to share regarding the civvy model.
Lastly, my apologies to the members, Moderators, and Staff for keeping the thread off-topic. Like Brett, I'm not a fan of seeing the wrong information continue to spread, particularly when it pertains to something I work with on a daily basis.
Stay safe all,
Clint
LOL.
There you go with your damned 100's of thousands of rounds of experience on that platform and your educated informed opinions again;). Shit me a ****in SCAR Heavy before we hit the retirement home would ya? Jeebus..some guys i tell ya.
Buck
Lastly, my apologies to the members, Moderators, and Staff for keeping the thread off-topic. Like Brett, I'm not a fan of seeing the wrong information continue to spread, particularly when it pertains to something I work with on a daily basis.
Stay safe all,
Clint
Clint, you are not the person that should be apologizing. There are a lot more people here that value and respect your opinions and knowledge, than the few who seen to have an illogical axe to grind about their favourite flavour of kool-aid.
Thanks again.
Cameron
variablebinary
02-17-09, 18:34
Very well, then there is nothing left in this thread for me to discuss. Ciao.
Indeed.
I will resume posting in this thread when I have my own scar sitting in front me and have pics that arent gunbroker cell phone photos. I think everyone has seen plenty of those.
Stayed tuned because the real fun hasnt even started yet :D
QuietShootr
02-17-09, 19:38
Mr. Lynch,
I know you're on the military side - but perhaps you can pass this along around the water cooler:
PLEASE get the 17S out YESTERDAY. For the love of God.
Indeed.
I will resume posting in this thread when I have my own scar sitting in front me and have pics that arent gunbroker cell phone photos. I think everyone has seen plenty of those.
Stayed tuned because the real fun hasnt even started yet :D
I look forward to your own testing of the SCAR and comparison to its competition. Lets us with caution induldge in the supposition that unbias evaluation can be maintained without manufacturer representation. ;)
Gabe_Bailey
02-18-09, 16:21
I look forward to your own testing of the SCAR and comparison to its competition. Lets us with caution induldge in the supposition that unbias evaluation can be maintained without manufacturer representation. ;)
I will be posting a professional response to this thread just as Clint and Brett have. I do however, need to first recollect all the testing that I was a part of before I joined FN.
Marcus - I will glady provide you with unbiased information...and stop using the thesaurus :) ; most of us read to the 8th grade level (please don't everyone take offense to that statement)!
V/r,
Gabe
variablebinary,
Before we ever see the AAR you conduct on the SCAR vs. XCR, I think it would be only fair that you prove you have the qualifications to conduct such a test.
I will be posting a professional response to this thread just as Clint and Brett have. I do however, need to first recollect all the testing that I was a part of before I joined FN.
Marcus - I will glady provide you with unbiased information...and stop using the thesaurus :) ; most of us read to the 8th grade level (please don't everyone take offense to that statement)!
V/r,
Gabe
Thanks, Gabe. What I would really like to see would be a good run between the Masada, SCAR, XCR, and maybe a few piston driven ARs(who am I kidding....who has that kind of money?). Some good high round count runs with some durability tests. The key would be to follow the manufacturer's maintenance schedules and inspection of parts. In the 1984 DOA tests where the AUG was getting some trial runs, it didn't do all that well and Steyr later said that the rifle was not maintained according to their standards. Parts were not lubed in the right areas, and screw tightness was not checked at 2000rd intervals. So, the rifle probably would have done quite well had the testers simply followed the manufacturer's maintenance instructions.
Oh, and I can't take credit for that most excellent bit of dialect. I changed up George Washington's farewell address of 1796 a tad.
Business_Casual
02-19-09, 08:00
What I would really like to see would be a good run between the Masada, SCAR, XCR, and maybe a few piston driven ARs(who am I kidding....who has that kind of money?).
.mil
M_P
I absolutely love mine!
I will be running it at a Vickers Tactical Carbine Class in October.
http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo225/rwest77/DSCN1024.jpg
Jay Cunningham
08-06-09, 11:57
I absolutely love mine!
I will be running it at a Vickers Tactical Carbine Class in October.
http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo225/rwest77/DSCN1024.jpg
What is your round count through it?
Gun-nut,
Please remember that this is an AUCTION and is not indicative of the real sale price. Unless, you are one of those "I have to have it first" guys I would wait for the market to correct itself.
"have to have it first"... and more money than brains!
Though I can't blame them too much, if I was "Mr. Mega bucks" I'd would on occasion spend to much to get what I wanted now.
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I am a little disappointed that there isn't something in place to prevent this kind of shenanigans from happening.[/QUOTE]
Free market baby... It all depends on how stupid the consumer is. It will fix it's self after the above people (mr. more money than brains) have theirs.
Personally I think I'd rather have an ARC (Masada). Maybe by the time they arrive, assuming the ever will arrive, I can actually afford one... MAYBE.
What is your round count through it?
Just over 1000 so far, but not one failure.
I put 100 to 140 down range every week.
Jay Cunningham
08-06-09, 12:25
Just over 1000 so far, but not one failure.
I put 100 to 140 down range every week.
Let us know your thoughts after you run it through a shooting school.
Let us know your thoughts after you run it through a shooting school.
Will do...
Just over 1000 so far, but not one failure.
I put 100 to 140 down range every week.
Glad to see you on board here! Thanks for giving me some trigger time with it on Sat. Looking forward to doing some more shooting with you before Vickers. We can do it at my club this time and do some work before class.
I want to shoot it a little more, to see if you get used to the charging handle with the optics mount.
Glad to see you on board here! Thanks for giving me some trigger time with it on Sat. Looking forward to doing some more shooting with you before Vickers. We can do it at my club this time and do some work before class.
I want to shoot it a little more, to see if you get used to the charging handle with the optics mount.
Thanks Patrick,
I have been browsing the forum and found it to be very informative..
We can get some work in any time..
I put a riser on the rail for the EoTech.
If you remember when pulling the charging handle, you scrape your knuckles on the ARMS throw levers (kinda weird).. It is now a lot better..
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