View Full Version : Which barrel out of these two would you choose?
Stopsign32v
11-09-23, 17:42
https://www.primaryarms.com/rosco-manufacturing-purebred-223-wylde-barrel-government-mid-length-13.7
or
https://www.primaryarms.com/sons-of-liberty-gun-works-primary-arms-exclusive-combat-grade-556-mid-length-barrel-13.9in
I think I would go with the nitrided barrel out of those 2, but would go with this(largely due to the reduced profile front) over either of them.
https://bkingsfirearms.com/shop/ar15-barrels-223-wylde-5-56mm-300-blk-and-6-5-grendel/ballistic-advantage-13-9-5-56-ba-hanson-mid-ar-15-barrel-w-lo-pro-gas-block-performance-series/
Between those 2 go with the one with the 5.56 chamber. Neither is a match barrel so go with the one that will have the most forgiving chamber for managing a hot load.
https://www.primaryarms.com/sons-of-liberty-gun-works-primary-arms-exclusive-combat-grade-556-mid-length-barrel-13.9in
Stopsign32v
11-09-23, 18:15
I think I would go with the nitrided barrel out of those 2, but would go with this(largely due to the reduced profile front) over either of them.
https://bkingsfirearms.com/shop/ar15-barrels-223-wylde-5-56mm-300-blk-and-6-5-grendel/ballistic-advantage-13-9-5-56-ba-hanson-mid-ar-15-barrel-w-lo-pro-gas-block-performance-series/
I can actually get the Rosco barrel for $109. But shhhhh
And the SOLGW barrel is a BA barrel but supposedly held at a higher standard than regular. This one is a "PA exclusive" for whatever that means.
I can actually get the Rosco barrel for $109. But shhhhh
And the SOLGW barrel is a BA barrel but supposedly held at a higher standard than regular. This one is a "PA exclusive" for whatever that means.
Seen Rosco and BA get really good reviews on Sage Dynamics so doubt you could go wrong with either.
Stopsign32v
11-09-23, 18:47
https://www.primaryarms.com/solgw-combat-grade-556-mid-length-barrel-13.7
Since you're requesting opinions, here's mine.
Government profile barrels make absolutely no sense.
13.x" long barrels make absolutely no sense.
Therefore, I wouldn't choose either of these barrels.
13.x" long barrels make absolutely no sense.
How much time have you spent with one?
I really dig 13.7” barrels. Kind of an SBR sweet spot, since you can run a reasonable handguard with them, get good ballistics without a nuclear fireball, yet they are very maneuverable.
I own several of the 16" SOLGW combat grade barrels and they are excellent. I agree that length isn't something I'd do, but if that is your choice, so be it.
How much time have you spent with one?
I haven't spent any time with one. They're not short enough to make SBR bullshit worthwhile. A 12.5" is as long as I'll go, and I've grown quite fond of my 11.5"s.
fedupflyer
11-09-23, 19:28
If you are married to a 13.9, then this one.
https://www.primaryarms.com/criterion-barrels-core-series-mid-length-ar-15-barrel-chrome-lined-13.9in
Personally, I would do either a 11.5 or 16.
What reasoning for a 13.9?
Stopsign32v
11-09-23, 19:37
I own several of the 16" SOLGW combat grade barrels and they are excellent. I agree that length isn't something I'd do, but if that is your choice, so be it.
I haven't spent any time with one. They're not short enough to make SBR bullshit worthwhile. A 12.5" is as long as I'll go, and I've grown quite fond of my 11.5"s.
Do you guys understand the 13.7 is the shortest length barrel you can go with in order to PW your muzzle device on to make it OAL 16?
Both are rifles...Which would you rather own?
https://ktactical.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/AR-Upper-Complete-13-7-inches-pinned-and-welded-light-weight-7lb-556-223-wylde-spiral-fluted-COMPARE-SIZES-min.jpg
https://ktactical.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/13-inch-pinned-and-welded-complete-upper-ktactical-tin-gold-barrel-spiral-fluted-rifle-legal-barrel-light-weight-6-min.jpg
I run neither of these muzzle devices, and probably never will.
My only barrel that's less than 16" with a pinned MD is a 14.5" with an A2X. I've given up very little performance, and am at 16". I only bought it because it was very reasonable, and a Colt (wanted to check out the quality).
Stopsign32v
11-09-23, 20:21
I run neither of these muzzle devices, and probably never will.
My only barrel that's less than 16" with a pinned MD is a 14.5" with an A2X. I've given up very little performance, and am at 16". I only bought it because it was very reasonable, and a Colt (wanted to check out the quality).
I'm pointing out the reason behind the 13.7
No way I would run a A2X on any rifle
I have a 16" Barreled AR with a VG6 Gamma. It's only 1.75" long and 2.1 oz. My barrel length with VG6 Gamma aboard is 17.25"
Saving 1.1 inches is not much of an addition to handiness. Of course if you want to use a Surefire SOCOM MUZZLE BRAKE which is 2.6" long and 3.9oz then a P&W sort of makes sense if your gonna run a suppressor. If you have no plans to suppress it then 13.7 or 13.9 makes no practical sense whatsoever, IMHO.
But it's your money spend it how you will....
Stopsign32v
11-09-23, 20:38
I have a 16" Barreled AR with a VG6 Gamma. It's only 1.75" long and 2.1 oz. My barrel length with VG6 Gamma aboard is 17.25"
Saving 1.1 inches is not much of an addition to handiness. Of course if you want to use a Surefire SOCOM MUZZLE BRAKE which is 2.6" long and 3.9oz then a P&W sort of makes sense if your gonna run a suppressor. If you have no plans to suppress it then 13.7 or 13.9 makes no practical sense whatsoever, IMHO.
But it's your money spend it how you will....
To anyone that thinks this I will say shoot/use a 16" P&W then use a 16" with a muzzle device. The difference is very noticeable
All of my rifles use Surefire muzzle devices. I find them to be the best out there.
No way I would run a A2X on any rifle
Why not? So many strong opinions in this thread.
Stopsign32v
11-09-23, 20:42
Why not? So many strong opinions in this thread.
I was just kidding. Poking fun @ his comment on the Surefire ones.
Do you guys understand the 13.7 is the shortest length barrel you can go with in order to PW your muzzle device on to make it OAL 16?
Both are rifles...Which would you rather own?
https://ktactical.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/AR-Upper-Complete-13-7-inches-pinned-and-welded-light-weight-7lb-556-223-wylde-spiral-fluted-COMPARE-SIZES-min.jpg
https://ktactical.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/13-inch-pinned-and-welded-complete-upper-ktactical-tin-gold-barrel-spiral-fluted-rifle-legal-barrel-light-weight-6-min.jpg
Your pictures clearly illustrate the negligible difference between a 16" and a 13" Pinned and welded. In my opinion pinning and welding is stupid. You are married to the barrel and the muzzle device. Your pictures clearly illustrate the length difference is minimal, so why not just use either a 16" or SBR / Pistol again.
Pin and welds make zero sense to me, but again, that may just be me and there may be valid reasons I don't yet understand. Personally, I'd rather have the extra velocity if its going to be the same length.
But it will be HIS rifle............He can and should do what HE wants, not what I want.
fedupflyer
11-09-23, 22:45
Do a little reading.
https://www.everydaymarksman.co/equipment/government-profile-barrel/
https://www.everydaymarksman.co/equipment/ar-15-barrel-selection/
Stopsign32v
11-10-23, 07:23
Your pictures clearly illustrate the negligible difference between a 16" and a 13" Pinned and welded. In my opinion pinning and welding is stupid. You are married to the barrel and the muzzle device. Your pictures clearly illustrate the length difference is minimal, so why not just use either a 16" or SBR / Pistol again.
Pin and welds make zero sense to me, but again, that may just be me and there may be valid reasons I don't yet understand. Personally, I'd rather have the extra velocity if its going to be the same length.
But it will be HIS rifle............He can and should do what HE wants, not what I want.
Pictures, handling in person, and opinions are three totally different things. If it isn't for you, that's ok.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZxC07B2jYY
Also worth thinking about is with a 13.7/9 you will be going with a 13" rail vs a 15" rail for a 16. Difference is quite a bit. But honestly this isn't what the thread is about.
Neither, government profile barrels are stupid. The 13 inchers make a lot of sense if you’re tied to a MD that’s going to bring you to over 16.1 anyways. I have a 13.9 Core with SFMB that handles great. Going with a 16” gun plus an MD that long is stupid IMO unless you want something damn near as long as a MK12.
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Neither, government profile barrels are stupid. The 13 inchers make a lot of sense if you’re tied to a MD that’s going to bring you to over 16.1 anyways. I have a 13.9 Core with SFMB that handles great.
I would agree. I've got 3 ARs with government profile barrels, and while they work great, I feel like there's enough evidence to move away from this. Criterion are amazing barrels, and I love mine. I have a 13.9" BA Hanson barrel and upper I have yet to put together, but after I upgrade my NV setup I plan on making this my NV GP carbine.
Stopsign32v
11-10-23, 10:44
Core series is badass. But also a big wait time and 3x as much money for little to no gain @ 100 yards and closer
I owned the Rosco. I sold it as soon as I got into cans. Mostly because there were no MD options with the mounting system I wanted to use that would take it to 16 inches. Meaning the 13.X lengths are going to restrict your choices if you want to shoot suppressed. Where as everyone and their brother makes them for 14.5s. Which is what I did. Sold the Rosco and got a Centurion 14.5. Just something to think about.
titsonritz
11-10-23, 15:15
If you are married to a 13.9, then this one.
https://www.primaryarms.com/criterion-barrels-core-series-mid-length-ar-15-barrel-chrome-lined-13.9in
Personally, I would do either a 11.5 or 16.
What reasoning for a 13.9?
This is one I’ve got.
As mentioned, a 13.7/13.9” with a pinned suppressor capability md gets you to the 16” non-NFA length.
titsonritz
11-10-23, 15:21
If the choice is between those two I’d go for SOLGW for their life time replacement warranty but as mentioned that profile sucks. I much prefer the consistent taper of the Core and BCM ELW series
Stopsign32v
11-10-23, 16:46
If the choice is between those two I’d go for SOLGW for their life time replacement warranty but as mentioned that profile sucks. I much prefer the consistent taper of the Core and BCM ELW series
Are you sure about that? I believe I remember them taking that replacement warranty away.
With so many better barrel profiles available today, if you’re not mounting an M203 grenade launcher to your rifle, there’s really no reason other than nostalgia to use a government profile barrel. The government profile has always been ass-backwards and the only reason that it was chosen for the M16A2 was to “fix” a non-existent problem.
If someone wants a pin and weld barrel and isn’t planning on using a suppressor, they can use a longer 14.5” barrel, of which there are far more quality choices to pick from, with a muzzle device that is shorter and weighs less than a Surefire such as the Smith Enterprise Vortex (which provides every bit as much practical flash suppression as a Surefire.)
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/a2_and_vortex_flash_hiders_length_compar-3023140.jpg
The Criterion CORE, BCM ELW, Noveske N4, BRT Optimum, Colt SOCOM and TRIARC Track 2.0 would all be better choices than the two mentioned in the original post of this thread.
Criterion CORE Accuracy (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?237337-Criterion-16%94-CORE-Barrel-Accuracy-Evaluation)
BCM ELW Accuracy (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?237429-Bravo-Company-14-5%94-ELW-Accuracy-A-Quick-Look)
Colt SOCOM Accuracy (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?238350-Colt-M4A1-SOCOM-Barrel-Accuracy-Another-Look)
TRIARC Track 2.0 Accuracy (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?237300-TRIARC-Track-2-0-Accuracy)
Noveske N4 Accuracy (https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Accuracy-Evaluations-of-Nine-Different-Noveske-Barreled-Rifles/118-783097/)
BRT Optimum Accuracy (https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/BRT-Optimum-Accuracy-Evaluation/118-778084/)
....
fedupflyer
11-10-23, 21:27
This is one I’ve got.
As mentioned, a 13.7/13.9” with a pinned suppressor capability md gets you to the 16” non-NFA length.
So you still end up the with overall 16 in length.
I just don't get the logic behind this one.
Plus a Wylde chambering tend to be more accurate than a 5.56 Nato chamber.
Unless you are just try to make a period accurate retro piece, no real need for the Nato.
Stopsign32v
11-10-23, 21:36
With the overturn of the pistol brace thing I might be rethinking this... 11.5 maybe instead
So you still end up the with overall 16 in length.
I just don't get the logic behind this one.
Plus a Wylde chambering tend to be more accurate than a 5.56 Nato chamber.
Unless you are just try to make a period accurate retro piece, no real need for the Nato.
Really simple concept here. If you’re using a long muzzle device like a SureFire WarComp and you put it on a 16 inch barrel, you’re going to have something closer to an 18 inch gun. If you put the same muzzle device on a shorter barrel, like a 13.9, you can hit the 16.1 legal OAL without going stupidly far beyond it for no reason.
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With the overturn of the pistol brace thing I might be rethinking this... 11.5 maybe instead
You have yet to say what the point of this gun is going to be.
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fedupflyer
11-10-23, 23:48
Really simple concept here. If you’re using a long muzzle device like a SureFire WarComp and you put it on a 16 inch barrel, you’re going to have something closer to an 18 inch gun. If you put the same muzzle device on a shorter barrel, like a 13.9, you can hit the 16.1 legal OAL without going stupidly far beyond it for no reason.
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That doesn't make sense either.
I think the OP was using a warcomp to get to 16 in to be legal.
No reason to use the warcomp unless you are going to run suppressed.
And the warcomp is one of the worst muzzle devices to use for a Surefire suppressor as it makes it louder (according to the research at pew science).
Most practical barrel length for most people to use as a general purpose rifle: 16”
If wanting as short/light as possible but not suppressed: 14.7” w/A2 … add the cost and permanence of the pin/weld
If wanting as short/light as possible with a Dead Air, Surefire, or some other longer muzzle devices: 13.7 or 13.9” depending on the muzzle device
13.9” provides a little wiggle room unless you know the specific muzzle device you will use can hit 16” with a little less. 2.1” is noticeable.
This all depends on your use. I have found a 13.9” CORE with a Dead Air 6315KM-L is extremely light/handy without a suppressor and still great with a MG7K on the end. The upper, with a free float handguard, longer barrel, and slightly larger muzzle device, is still lighter and nearly as handy as my 12.5” Kino was.
Stopsign32v
11-11-23, 07:33
You have yet to say what the point of this gun is going to be.
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The same point as 99% of all other builds we all do. HD with SHTF use.
With the overturn of the pistol brace thing I might be rethinking this... 11.5 maybe instead
BA makes an 11.3" Hanson that would be slick.
This might be an improvement, although I don't know how much difference in cycling feel the proprietary gas length you would get versus adjusting springs, buffers, or adding a BRT tube.
https://www.roscomanufacturing.com/shop/barrels/k9-barrels/k9-11-5-kinetic-consulting-5-56-nato/
These seem to be well made and accurate, although mine came with what appears to be a nitrided handguard cap.
https://www.brownells.com/gun-parts/rifle-parts/rifle-barrels-parts/ar-15-m16a1-retro-carbine-barrel-assemblies/
The skinny out front is similar to your wanting 16" overall versus 16" + muzzle device. It obviously isn't a huge or insurmountable difference, but you do notice it.
Stopsign32v
11-11-23, 09:27
This might be an improvement, although I don't know how much difference in cycling feel the proprietary gas length you would get versus adjusting springs, buffers, or adding a BRT tube.
https://www.roscomanufacturing.com/shop/barrels/k9-barrels/k9-11-5-kinetic-consulting-5-56-nato/
That is interesting. I had a 11.5 Faxon midlength with an adjustable gas block. I could never get it to not cycle unless I closed the gas off. It was extremely reliable and accurate. It was a combo of mine years ago and I've since given it to someone that wanted to get into ARs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtfPnpCnnCE
With the overturn of the pistol brace thing I might be rethinking this... 11.5 maybe instead
Well, if you are on the fence about length just send $200 and the 'mother-may-I" paperwork in and make up your mind while you wait.
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