View Full Version : So I watched this Communist Tube Video
It was one of those "Tier List" videos and I thought the guy was completely insane. So it drove me to want to do my own.
If the author is reading this thread, its cool, we're all entitled to our opinions, some of us are simply more wrong than others.
This whole exercise is a bit retarded, but I feel pretty satisfied with this list and it fairly well summarizes how I think about certain companies who produce AR15's and/or products.
This is all opinion and if I am crazy, well am sure this will cause a disagreement. It was harder than you think and you can probably make an argument to move any of them up or down one row much less over one spot within the same row.
https://hkguns.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-10/p3137704284-5.jpg
There are probably lots of people here who will think I am insane as well.
ETA: This is AR15 Rifles / Components ONLY......If it were more, S&W, for instance, would be likely be higher if only for their revolvers.
Hammer_Man
11-12-23, 18:25
Seems pretty well rounded. Personally I’d put SOLGW, JP, and Noveske a tier higher.
I think that its probably more fluid but overall a far assessment of the top tiers, having played with recent Stags I would put them higher, and Rainier's parts used to be top notch, one of the top 3 gun guys in my area still runs their match barrel and that thing is exceptionally accurate
I was going to mention also having a tremendously nice ultramatch barrel from Rainier made from a Shilen blank, but as with everything quality can and does change with time and parts suppliers. Mine is pretty old.
Personally I'd place SOLGW and Noveske up a notch, and probably Rainier as well. And unless I'm missing something Sionics isn't listed at all. I would add them to the A or B tier.
DancingInAshes
11-12-23, 20:04
I'd put Larue a tier higher. Not sure what that company has to do to get people to acknowledge that they make amazing gear and it's often more affordable than stuff from companies that don't offer the same level of consistency and quality machining.
LMT is troublesome because their rifles from 4+ years ago are amazing, and the gear they sell to the militaries of the world is amazing. They're troublesome because they don't care about their civilian customers very much at all, and you don't have to look very hard to find a fair number of people who have received brand new LMT parts that were out of spec, most of the incidents being in the uppers and BCGs. Yes, they warranty the parts, but when you splash out LMT money for LMT rifles, you don't expect to get some PSA/Anderson kind of machining errors and failed QC.
I love LMT, but I wouldn't buy a new LMT, I'd hunt an older one down for sale on the used market.
I have a complete A class Rifle (DD) with an S Class Trigger (SSA) and a replacement BCM 18" barrel, DD BCG, DD BCG, Vltor A5 H2 & Springco Green.
I also have a B class Upper & Handguard (Midwest), B Class Barrel 18" Recon (Wilson Combat), B Class Radian Safety, S Class Trigger (SD-E), on a C Class lower Ballistic Advantage (a rebadged Aero M4E1), Microbest Chrome BCG, Vltor A5 H2 & Springco Green
I also have a complete C Class Upper 16" (Aero), on a F class Lower (Diamondback), B Class Safety (Radian), B Class BCG (Wilson Combat), Geissele Super 42 spring and H2 buffer.
And you know what, they all work well together. Even the F Class Diamondback Lower (It was a take off from a complete rife I took in trade, sold the 300 BO Upper) has not given me any problems.
Barrels, BCG and Triggers is what counts. The rest is just mostly fluff, as long as it's in spec.
UTG aka Leapers is airsoft shit and shouldn't even be on a list.
UTG aka Leapers is airsoft shit and shouldn't even be on a list.
They actually make "Real" AR sights now. I only included them because they were listed and I have some experience with their AR backup sights. Larger point taken however, they don't make rifles.
Cool...All my shit is S or A. Yay me!
Anyway, seems about right plus or minus the couple swaps people already mentioned.
Stopsign32v
11-12-23, 21:20
PSA is a bit too high
https://media0.giphy.com/media/hvq8ONQhQ1XLq/giphy.gif
What do you have against Rainier Arms?
What do you have against Rainier Arms?
Nothing really, I may have them low.
What does the S stand for?
What does the S stand for?
Super expensive.
PSA, CMMG and STAG are rated too low. Last I checked PSA is still selling FN barreled uppers and toolcraft bolt carriers, CMMG arguably has the best PCC and 7.62 x 39 and STAG moved to Wyoming but some people just gotta hate :D
What does the S stand for?
-Superb=
Here is the link to the site I used......Feel free to do your own and post it Mack or anyone else.
CLICK (https://tiermaker.com/categories/brands/ar15-mfgs-1230598)
It would be good to have other people's opinions on this topic.
Nothing really, I may have them low.
My go-to rifle is a co-branded Ranier Arms Daniel Defense complete upper mounted to a LMT lower. At the time I bought it Rainier Arms seemed well respected, and the co-branding worked to put RA in the same space as DD in my mind. I have no experience with their own parts.
My go-to rifle is a co-branded Ranier Arms Daniel Defense complete upper mounted to a LMT lower. At the time I bought it Rainier Arms seemed well respected, and the co-branding worked to put RA in the same space as DD in my mind. I have no experience with their own parts.
Another reason I posted this here, to elicit conversations such as this and learn something. I certainly am not all knowing.
It's going to be really hard to do a tier ranking, easy to do the top ranked, but get down to someone like PSA, not everything they sell is bad and their sales volume is many times more than the top ranked. Doesn't mean much to say "PSA has 10 times the issues of X" when they are selling 20 times the rifles. To me it boils down to specs, the barrel, bolt and lower parts are what really matter I will take a PSA FN barreled upper over a higher tier upper with nitrated barrel any day of the week. Then use money saved to but some rounds through it to prove function the name on the receiver doesn't really matter. And even the top brands can put out some crap Daniel overgased barrels and Geissele chambers come to mind.
Stopsign32v
11-13-23, 10:58
Resale should be considered here.
Kia sells 2,000x more vehicles than Porsche but that doesn't make them equal.
Good luck selling your used PSA AR.
Resale should be considered here.
Kia sells 2,000x more vehicles than Porsche but that doesn't make them equal.
Good luck selling your used PSA AR.
Why? What's going to take longer to sale a used $500 PSA or a $3,000 KAC? I agree that a KAC is a much better rifle but is it 6 times better?
Reality is not everyone can afford Gucci and PSA makes plenty of serviceable rifles.
Stopsign32v
11-13-23, 13:05
Why? What's going to take longer to sale a used $500 PSA or a $3,000 KAC? I agree that a KAC is a much better rifle but is it 6 times better?
Reality is not everyone can afford Gucci and PSA makes plenty of serviceable rifles.
I've sold multiple $250 stripped KAC lowers for $1500 each. What would a $49 stripped PSA lower bring on the used market? $25?
And I was referring to resale value, not speed in which you could sell an item. However I've never been let down with a 7 day auction.
The owner of Rainier Arms is a friend, but no one gets a free pass from me. That being said, I've never seen or heard of their parts being bad, their rifles being bad, or anything else other than miscommunication with customers. I'm sure they have had individual issues pop up, but its not common. Their barrels are known to be freakishly accurate.
On the other hand, companies that won't state what their parts are made of, claim they make everything in house when they don't, or don't bother to MP bolts (and won't list what they are) deserve to be down towards the bottom IMHO.
hotrodder636
11-13-23, 16:32
I assembled two LR-308s with 20" Rainier Arms UltraMatch barrels--both guns are 1 MOA (5 shot groups with 175gr GMM). I have had some sub-MOA but most are MOA. I also have a Rainier Arms UltraMatch for my MK12, that one is sub-MOA with IMI 77 gr Razorcore and my 69, 75, and 77 gr handloads. I can speak to their barrel quality, which I am happy with but I am not familiar with their full builds.
I love my KAC and LMT, for different reasons. Of all my ARs, no matter what spring/buffer combos I run, that KAC just shoots the smoothest. It is an SR-15 Legacy model with 3T brake on it. I like my LMT for the MRP upper, so I can do caliber swaps. My Colts are just Colts. My Geissele definitely has beautiful fit and finish; super duty 11.5" upper--lower not finished yet but it is matching in Desert Dirt color with SSA-E trigger. I have several Aero home-builds, my SBRs, that have been nothing but functional.
Overall, I think that list is pretty close to what I would put together. A couple might move up (Rainier Arms for example) and a few might move down. Since my experience with Aero are home-builds, I can't really say where I would put them since they are not factory guns.
The owner of Rainier Arms is a friend, but no one gets a free pass from me. That being said, I've never seen or heard of their parts being bad, their rifles being bad, or anything else other than miscommunication with customers. I'm sure they have had individual issues pop up, but its not common. Their barrels are known to be freakishly accurate.
On the other hand, companies that won't state what their parts are made of, claim they make everything in house when they don't, or don't bother to MP bolts (and won't list what they are) deserve to be down towards the bottom IMHO.
I built a rifle on a beautiful rainier ambi receiver set, I believe made by mega. I used a 16” ultra match barrel. Said it was made from a German steel.
I used in a dmr class. I could make hits at 750yards on steel with 77gr ammo at a shot cadence of a shot a second. Glass was a 2.5-10x32 nightforce.
Without stated criteria, this is just "that person's opinion" and it's even more useless than an outdated chart.
Stopsign32v
11-13-23, 17:16
Without stated criteria, this is just "that person's opinion" and it's even more useless than an outdated chart.
I would put Criterion up a good ways on the chart.
I would put Criterion up a good ways on the chart.
Word on the street is they have not been passing headspace checks
Stopsign32v
11-13-23, 17:45
Word on the street is they have not been passing headspace checks
Criterion?! :eek:
CrowCommand
11-13-23, 18:52
But are their barrels OD or FDE? It matters….
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