View Full Version : Barrel length and noise
This may seem like a total noob question but here goes:
I'm looking for the best barrel length for a home defense rifle most likely to be used indoors. I'm currently running a 14.5 midlength and am confident if I had to use it indoors it wouldn't permanently damage my hearing. Thinking about setting up an 11.5 in it's place but am concerned about my hearing. Both have a standard flash hider and I won't be suppressing them.
Anyone have experience with an 11.5 indoors with no hearing protection? And would a 300 blk be quieter than a 5.56 if the barrels are the same size?
Thanks!
You shouldn't be confident that firing more than a few rounds of un-suppressed 5.56 in your living room won't cause permanent hearing damage. How much damage it causes, and is this damage acceptable to you are the pertinent questions.
Electronic earmuffs live on the door knob of the door next to or in front of HD weapons. I have no doubt that the 3 or 4 seconds it takes me to place them onto my head and turn a knob will cause me any harm in a home invasion.
An 11.5 barrel will be quite a bit louder and more concussive than a 14.5, but either length is definitely not hearing safe indoors without hearing protection. Supposedly part of the reason that the military adopted the 14.5 barrel length for the M4 carbine was that they found it was the minimum barrel length required to bring muzzle blast and sound levels down to a reasonable level when fired indoors, but it's definitely still not hearing safe.
Sub-sonic 300 blackout will be SIGNIFICANTLY quieter than any 5.56 round. Add a suppressor and its movie quiet.
Is there a reason you're not planning to use a suppressor on this home defense gun? It would definitely be the right way to go if you're concerned about your hearing.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
11-17-23, 17:50
This may seem like a total noob question but here goes:
I'm looking for the best barrel length for a home defense rifle most likely to be used indoors. I'm currently running a 14.5 midlength and am confident if I had to use it indoors it wouldn't permanently damage my hearing. Thinking about setting up an 11.5 in it's place but am concerned about my hearing. Both have a standard flash hider and I won't be suppressing them.
Anyone have experience with an 11.5 indoors with no hearing protection? And would a 300 blk be quieter than a 5.56 if the barrels are the same size?
Thanks!
What is this confidence based on?
This may seem like a total noob question but here goes:
I'm looking for the best barrel length for a home defense rifle most likely to be used indoors. I'm currently running a 14.5 midlength and am confident if I had to use it indoors it wouldn't permanently damage my hearing. Thinking about setting up an 11.5 in it's place but am concerned about my hearing. Both have a standard flash hider and I won't be suppressing them.
Anyone have experience with an 11.5 indoors with no hearing protection? And would a 300 blk be quieter than a 5.56 if the barrels are the same size?
Thanks!
Is your hearing so bad that you honestly think that you could fire off a 5.56 from a 14.5" inside a building and it wouldn't damage your hearing? It is hellishly loud, and the shorter you go with the barrel length the worse it gets. Even firing off a pistol indoors is problematic, and you should know that now because it doesn't sound like you've ever had to do it. Part of my hearing damage is because of this stuff, and it only gets worse the more noise you are exposed to.
Odds of you firing off a long gun in a house are really part minuscule unless you are part of an entry/ assault team or cop. Even then, if you are a cop its going to typically be a handgun.
Auditory exclusion is a real thing, and unless you are used to force on force and other stress training, you are likely to have have it. If you have "been there done that", don't expect auditory exclusion, tachypsychia, tunnel vision or the other cornucopia of fun things to happen. If your heart rate is above 175, docs who study this stuff feel it highly likely you will have AE. The thing is, the more you train, the less excited you get shooting people who are trying to kill you. Most LEO/ MIL recall the first time they were shot at. After that, things tend to blur together.
While we are on this subject, the "McGurk Effect" comes into play, though it isn't something taught at a LE or MIL level (that I'm aware of). In a nutshell, the McGurk Effect says your brain is going to believe what it sees over what it hears. Not only is this increased during times of stress, but even without high stress it comes into play. Its one of the reasons that when I have someone at gunpoint, I motion as well as give verbal commands. Think its not important? Try dealing with a guy carrying an axe who has been chasing people and reportedly trying to kill them.... The only reason that guy doesn't live in a paupers grave is because of the hand motions. Not only was he a nut job, but he didn't speak English.
Tachypsychia/ time dilation/ altered perceptions of time are all ways of saying you may very well experience time at an altered rate. The first time it happened to me was in a dark alley about 5 feet away from a guy when I told him to put his hands up, and instead he began to turn away while reaching in his layered clothing where I could clearly see a tan leather shoulder holster and a dark steel weapon with bakelite grips. I processed time in an altered, and calm state. I slowly thought, Makarov... Tokarov... Makarov... Tokarov... one has ammo to pierce body armor and one doesn't.... meanwhile I had closed the distance, drawn my weapon, and muzzle punched him hard between the eyes while trapping his other hand in his clothing. Time dilation is awesome, but the problem is that it can't be relied on, and once its happened the likelihood of it happening again goes down (though I have not read enough studies to confirm that through data).
Tunnel vision? Yeah, the reason that I bring that up is because bad guys are like Orcs, they shouldn't EVER be expected to be traveling alone. Sure, sometimes its just one person breaking into a house, but if its something other than a daytime burglary, I would bet heavy on there being 2 or 3 (if not more). Tunnel vision is the devil, while Tachypsychia is a gift from the Lord. Tunnel vision kills your situational awareness, but it does more than just that, it also tends to rob you of your basic training levels. We all train to reload, regardless of how many rounds we shoot if we play tag with a bad guy. Shoot 4 rounds from your Glock 17? Reload that pig anyway. Why? Because its hungry and I've never been paid a bonus to bring extra ammo back at the end of a patrol or shift. We reload because we don't actually know if the gunfight is over or not. Not only that, most people (again this is training dependent) have no idea how many rounds were fired in a deadly force altercation. You think all cops reload after they do Gods work? Nope. They are all training to do it, but it can be hard to break tunnel vision. This is why GOOD instructors will harp on it. Don't do it in training, don't ever expect to do it in real life when there is massive stress and a bad guy waiting to jump back up and kill you when he gets back up after his blood pressure gets stable. Tunnel vision can get you dead, it can get your family members dead, it can get your pets dead. I'm not just talking about YOU, because tunnel vision makes you a jumpy SOB who will probably AD a round into the first person you see in your peripheral vision.
I'm not even getting into the stress and what it does to most people when there heart is racing higher than it ever has before. When that dump of chemicals is fired into your brain, and when you can't remember things in order, or don't remember certain things at all. Once again, the odds of this happening if you are WELL TRAINED is much lower.
There is a lot that goes into the larger picture. What I'm trying to explain is there is MUCH more at play if you are touching off a round in the house than your hearing.
Stay safe out there guys, and train like the devil himself is coming for you, because some day he is.
Crap... even a suppressed AR indoors is far from hearing safe. It's about like a 9mm shot in open space in my experience.
Pick the best set up and go with it. If you have to fire in your house, hearing loss will have gone way down the priority list.
Hat tip to you, Stick, and everyone here with similar experiences. You all help us sleep peacefully at night.
Sorry, confident wasn't the right word. I just felt it was a lot less likely for a 14.5 barrel to cause permanent damage. Every training class I've been in has had us fire rounds without hearing protection to expose us to the environment. But... all training took place outdoors. No experience with any force on force type training (unless you count paintball).
I've heard that 300 blk is quieter but I've been hesitant to invest in a new caliber. And to be honest, a suppressor seems like a whole lot of red tape, time, and money.
What kind of training classes are you going to where they require you to fire 5.56 without hearing protection...
Every training class I've been in has had us fire rounds without hearing protection to expose us to the environment.
Did they also give you a good eyegouge and bounce your head off a post?
Did they also give you a good eyegouge and bounce your head off a post?
Were you in that class, too?
I just felt it was a lot less likely for a 14.5 barrel to cause permanent damage. Every training class I've been in has had us fire rounds without hearing protection to expose us to the environment. But... all training took place outdoors. No experience with any force on force type training (unless you count paintball).
I've heard that 300 blk is quieter but I've been hesitant to invest in a new caliber. And to be honest, a suppressor seems like a whole lot of red tape, time, and money.The instructors you've had are idiots and I would question why you would think firing small arms without hearing protection has ANY training value at all.
I'll be more specific. Every handgun class and two carbine classes had us fire one round to feel the effects. We weren't training without ear pro.
I’ve given this thought recently and decided a 9mm PPC with expanding gf ammo is the way
Were you in that class, too?
Excellent reply. 🍺
Did they also give you a good eyegouge and bounce your head off a post?
Yeah, the part you quoted is absolutely retarded.
Hat tip to you, Stick, and everyone here with similar experiences. You all help us sleep peacefully at night.
Sorry, confident wasn't the right word. I just felt it was a lot less likely for a 14.5 barrel to cause permanent damage. Every training class I've been in has had us fire rounds without hearing protection to expose us to the environment. But... all training took place outdoors. No experience with any force on force type training (unless you count paintball).
I've heard that 300 blk is quieter but I've been hesitant to invest in a new caliber. And to be honest, a suppressor seems like a whole lot of red tape, time, and money.
If you're hesitant on investing in a new caliber, then I would not recommend getting into 300 blk unless you decide to get a suppressor as well. 300 blk unsuppressed is not going to be any better indoors, it's still loud.
300 blk subsonic with the right suppressor can be quieter than a 5.56. I say with the right suppressor because not all suppressors are equal. A friend of mine had a 300 blk SBR and he put some budget no name company suppressor on it. It really wasn't that much quieter than a 10.3" Colt with a Surefire RC2.
I would really consider getting a suppressor if I were in your shoes; the red tape, time, and money really aren't too bad once you go through the process.
Stopsign32v
11-17-23, 21:39
When I fired unsuppressed 16" 5.56 I thought, "wow that was loud!" I was wrong
Firing 5.56 unsuppressed out of a 10.3 is loud
titsonritz
11-18-23, 10:24
The instructors you've had are idiots and I would question why you would think firing small arms without hearing protection has ANY training value at all.
This 100%.
Nearly any unsurpressed firearm fired indoors will cause permanent hearing damage. A 10.5" AR will cause greater hearing damage than a 14.5" AR but it's a matter of degree, not one being safer.
Andy
titsonritz
11-18-23, 18:49
Anymore I make a point to wear plugs under my
E-hearing pro. I’ve had ear pro lift off my head while in some irregular positions when I crack off and even outside it has taken its toll. Any instruction encouraging shooting w/o protection is a complete ****tard and should be avoided. If you have to bust off rounds indoors w/o ear pro do what you have to, but to do it intentionally is ludicrous.
The instructors you've had are idiots and I would question why you would think firing small arms without hearing protection has ANY training value at all.
That’s what I was thinking… I have enough relatives with hearing loss and hearing aids from various wars that intentionally doing that to myself seems backward. One shot outside with a 16” carbine and forgetting ear pro was enough to convince me to put electronic ear pro next to my bedside along with the gun.
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