View Full Version : Why rattle can paint instead of Duracoat, et al.?
shadowspirit
11-18-23, 12:34
I noticed most who paint their ARs use low priced rattle can to do it. Some will try Cerakoting, which is the hardest of the firearms coatings to apply, IIRC.
Why don't more people try something like Duracoat, KG Guncoat, or one of Brownells spray-on finishes for firearms? It provides a nicer finish than rattle can and is easier to apply than Cerakote, IIRC. I think there is a rattle can option to apply Duracoat.
Note: I have no affiliation with any of the above companies or products.
Inkslinger
11-18-23, 13:33
Because spray paint is cheap, easy, and effective.
Cheap and easy way to get what is commonly called a battle worn finish. Nobody will believe your war stories if the rifle looks new.
I don't waste my time rattle canning. I fairly inexpensively set myself up to Cerakote items and it works really well.
Simple to do, works great, cheap, and most importantly it can be easily modified with more paint to changing environments and seasons.
Simple to do, works great, cheap, and most importantly it can be easily modified with more paint to changing environments and seasons.
Do you strip it before adding paint? Seems it would build up quite a lot of surface after a while.
CrowCommand
11-18-23, 16:06
A little acetone thins it right out.
I have a couple setups that are ceracoated. A couple I rattle can…..my opinion is if the gun is a safe queen or is going to sit, use ceracoat. For rigs that are getting used, rattle can.
The money spent for the ceracoat looks great and protects well, but for all intents and purposes, a nice coat of spray paint will do the same, on something that might see some scratches and dings.
Refinished an old Lee-Enfield once with high-temp BBQ grill paint (baked on, of course) from Wal-Mart. Very durable and looked surprisingly good.
Because spray paint is cheap, easy, and effective.
Ditto.
Add; when it wears off, either “who care”?, or touch it up.
indianalex01
11-18-23, 16:45
Deleted
Because spray paint is cheap, easy, and effective.
AND ... Fun. When you're done, if you don't like it, strip it and start again.
Inkslinger
11-18-23, 16:59
AND ... Fun. When you're done, if you don't like it, strip it and start again.
You’re more ambitious than me. I just paint over it.
AND ... Fun. When you're done, if you don't like it, strip it and start again.
I haven't rattle canned a full rifle yet, just mags and furniture and some of the colors from spray paint are good at blending and mottling different patterns.
I did cerakote professionally for almost a decade. Is it ‘better’ sure.
Butttttt I can rattle can a three color camo job on my driveway while drinking a 6 pack and it’ll probably be as effective. Plus the worn finish from use looks better imo.
And Iykyk, 7 days
That’s how much you know.. Them boys in Quantico aren’t in line units who actually do it. You trying to be cool talk like you know and got exposed.. The phony tough posers always lurking.. Don’t do it here. To many who have actually been in line units will call you out.
No disrespect meant!
Rattle canned one of my rifles earlier this year. Just picked out some greens and browns and tans that I liked at the hardware store. Used some local foliage as templates. Turned out great. Was fun, cheap, and easy.
Did some mags too, cut out some digital camo patters in heavy paper to use as stencils for those.
titsonritz
11-18-23, 18:35
Cerakote and Duracoat also add substantial thickness compared to rattle canning
indianalex01
11-18-23, 19:11
No disrespect meant!
Ok cool. I deleted my post.
Cerakote and Duracoat also add substantial thickness compared to rattle canning
People need to remember that a heavy couple coats of spray paint will do the same. I had to take a razor edge and mallet to a pivot pin after a heavy paint job using Gillespie-manufactured paint this summer. I always mask off any other holes with sticky tack or Playdoh, but messed up on the pin for sure.
Not only fitment, massive amounts of paint does add ounces to your gun.
Cerakote and Duracoat also add substantial thickness compared to rattle canning
Cerakote, if done properly and using the correct spray gun, doesn't add that much at all. The target for the elite series I use is 1/2 Mil or .0005' which is less than the tolerance of most parts of the AR. Factor in the media blasting you are doing to create an adherence surface to the part and its probably overall less than even that measurement.
I've never used Duracoat, so can't speak to that one.
hotrodder636
11-19-23, 09:12
I duracoated one AR, and have one in a bronze anodize (Colt) and the other a desert dirt (Geissele). Other than that, most of mine are just standard black anodize. I have a few colors of rattle can in case I ever paint one, just have never had the need nor desire.
Cheap and easy way to get what is commonly called a battle worn finish. Nobody will believe your war stories if the rifle looks new.
This.
duracoat has a huge variety of color options, down side is $70 a can shipped :(
Do you strip it before adding paint? Seems it would build up quite a lot of surface after a while.
I do not. Because if you use your ARs it will wear down a lot.
And to add to that..... the more it wears down the more effective the camo is.
I used a higher quality one from brownells that came in a spray can.
It was tacky to the touch for 3 months and I don’t think fully cured for 6.
It was tacky to the touch for 3 months and I don’t think fully cured for 6.
Did you skip a prescribed thermal cure?
Did you skip a prescribed thermal cure?
I think that's the other attraction to rattle can. Most of us can't throw our rifles in the oven and stay married.
I think that's the other attraction to rattle can. Most of us can't throw our rifles in the oven and stay married.
Low effort, cheap, and just works.
Cerakote, if done properly and using the correct spray gun, doesn't add that much at all. The target for the elite series I use is 1/2 Mil or .0005' which is less than the tolerance of most parts of the AR. Factor in the media blasting you are doing to create an adherence surface to the part and its probably overall less than even that measurement.
I've never used Duracoat, so can't speak to that one.
Duracoat goes on thick and requires a fair amount of attention to not build up internals too much.
The thickness(and not requiring heat to cure) makes it really good for polymer stocks though.
Did you skip a prescribed thermal cure?
What ever I used did not require any thermal cure in the instructions.
Once cured it was in fact very durable. I did a four color camo scheme. So some of it was very thick, idk if that was part of the issue?
What ever I used did not require any thermal cure in the instructions.
Once cured it was in fact very durable. I did a four color camo scheme. So some of it was very thick, idk if that was part of the issue?
Aervoe? It seems very sensitive to humidity to me.
Alumahyde seems slightly less sensitive.
Aervoe rings a bell, it’s pretty humid where I am so sounds about right.
I think that's the other attraction to rattle can. Most of us can't throw our rifles in the oven and stay married.
A design for an inexpensive curing oven: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vXdWEFz2Q8&t=604s
shadowspirit
11-19-23, 22:07
Cerakote, if done properly and using the correct spray gun, doesn't add that much at all. The target for the elite series I use is 1/2 Mil or .0005' which is less than the tolerance of most parts of the AR. Factor in the media blasting you are doing to create an adherence surface to the part and its probably overall less than even that measurement.
I've never used Duracoat, so can't speak to that one.
If I'm not mistaken, Duracoat is easier to apply. They even have the rattle can version of it.
Duracoat aerosol paint = $70 per can
Hardware store aerosol paint = $5 per can
It shouldn't take a genius to see why one is chosen over the other.
ViniVidivici
11-20-23, 09:21
Because spray paint is cheap, easy, and effective.
First post nailed it.
And to add to that..... the more it wears down the more effective the camo is.
This. As some black bleeds through, it improves the camo and matches natural surroundings better.
hotrodder636
11-20-23, 11:35
Duracoat aerosol paint = $70 per can
Hardware store aerosol paint = $5 per can
It shouldn't take a genius to see why one is chosen over the other.
Yes, duracoat is pretty easy to spray. You can get it with a Preval spray kit, works pretty much like an aerosol can. It surely does cost more, but IMO it is significantly more durable than spray paint, not surprisingly.
Its cheap
It works
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/z321l7e8vnhjsljo7ubsc/Screenshot_20231121_120619_Gallery.jpg?rlkey=q6pkpzaeaqznqzuybs4x1fo5n&raw=1
To answer the question, I simply ask "why not?" No appreciable downsides, plenty of upsides.
shadowspirit
11-21-23, 14:29
Duracoat aerosol paint = $70 per can
Hardware store aerosol paint = $5 per can
It shouldn't take a genius to see why one is chosen over the other.
I thought Duracoat was much cheaper.
I thought Duracoat was much cheaper.
Used to be.
https://duracoatfirearmfinishes.com/duracoat-standard-colors-greens-aerosol-application/
I got the spray gun/Preval version at Knob Creek a time or two. Best I can recall it was in the $20 range for 4oz and have read claims that it is a Sherwin Williams product that(at the same time) was $130 - $150 a gallon.
Can anyone recommend a GOOD channel on rattle can camo finishes?
AdalinesDad
11-22-23, 04:51
I think that's the other attraction to rattle can. Most of us can't throw our rifles in the oven and stay married.
This!
joedirt199
11-22-23, 07:25
Can anyone recommend a GOOD channel on rattle can camo finishes?
Hate to say it but there is a decent long running thread on ar15.com under the armory section. At the bottom is refinishing and I follow a couple threads. One is rattle canning and the other is sponge paint job. Both have some really good examples and tutorials.
Just paint... if you mess it up just paint over it.......
I think that's the other attraction to rattle can. Most of us can't throw our rifles in the oven and stay married.
Way too accurate of a statement
Every time I drink enough beer to feel artistic with a rattle can, I end up taking a nap.
Haven't tried it, but the results look good.
https://youtu.be/-Q1vWugzCGY?si=3i7jUJpoG_941yLl
LivingtheHistoryM1
11-22-23, 17:26
I think that's the other attraction to rattle can. Most of us can't throw our rifles in the oven and stay married.
This is the most underrated post in this thread. I would be dead for losing the security deposit if it went wrong.
ViniVidivici
11-23-23, 12:53
I don't see the point in an elaborate pattern on a rifle, it's really not big enough to matter.
No harm in it if folks wanna get all artsy-fartsy though I reckon.
I'm in a primarily woodland/mountain environment. I do an olive drab base, with broad strokes of tan, and just the tiniest bit of brown here and there. Works perfectly.
But on the subject of camo, there's alot of effectiveness to be found in simple flat tones of tans and greens, assymetrically speaking.
You can walk right down the street in Ranger green pants and FDE top and hat, and nobody bats an eye, then right off into the woods, and blend in surprisingly well.
This is how I generally camo now across board
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/947133312084889653/1178087286102052864/IMG_8769.jpg?ex=6574de48&is=65626948&hm=c775baeb024551ebd28326fefc76131c6c0b5d2ffe0805758ab27d44ff554986&https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/947133312084889653/1178087286102052864/IMG_8769.jpg?ex=6574de48&is=65626948&hm=c775baeb024551ebd28326fefc76131c6c0b5d2ffe0805758ab27d44ff554986&
ViniVidivici
11-25-23, 19:34
That looks alot like what I do. Excellent, and very effective. I paint mags too.
I don't see the point in an elaborate pattern on a rifle, it's really not big enough to matter.
No harm in it if folks wanna get all artsy-fartsy though I reckon.
I'm in a primarily woodland/mountain environment. I do an olive drab base, with broad strokes of tan, and just the tiniest bit of brown here and there. Works perfectly.
But on the subject of camo, there's alot of effectiveness to be found in simple flat tones of tans and greens, assymetrically speaking.
You can walk right down the street in Ranger green pants and FDE top and hat, and nobody bats an eye, then right off into the woods, and blend in surprisingly well.
Form vs function. In terms of function, you are correct. And the most effective camos are very boring to the eye. But some of us still geek out over Rhodesian camo FALs (even if they kind of look like shit) and one day I'm gonna buy a pair of PTRs simply so I can do a HK woodland and desert camo pattern rifles.
This is how I generally camo now across board
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/947133312084889653/1178087286102052864/IMG_8769.jpg?ex=6574de48&is=65626948&hm=c775baeb024551ebd28326fefc76131c6c0b5d2ffe0805758ab27d44ff554986&https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/947133312084889653/1178087286102052864/IMG_8769.jpg?ex=6574de48&is=65626948&hm=c775baeb024551ebd28326fefc76131c6c0b5d2ffe0805758ab27d44ff554986&
https://i.imgflip.com/2tzf9x.jpg
That looks alot like what I do. Excellent, and very effective. I paint mags too.
I do as well--have a standardization for mags so I know what's in them in storage or in plate carrier/chest rig.
The Lancer AWM are always 77gr BH262 or IMIrazor in that color green/translucent for me, I sharpie the ammo choice on the side once loaded and that's pretty much how that mag will live and function from there onward. Mk12 get BH and any rifle on the more accurate side of the house gets razorcore. One rifle that really surprised me is Hellion, that thing is stupidly accurate! Trigger be damned, it's a laser. Also have a random 6920/not m4a1 with a roscoe barrel that punches way above its weight and still has the damn non-free float handguard! Literally same hole accurate rifle that I normally pay a lot more money in terms of platform/mods to achieve.
Pmags that are camo'd or fde/ude/coyote colored are always 62gr M855
USGI aluminum *Okay and Brownells are M193. Brownells are always modified with either magpul or KAC followers with magpul L-plates (realllllly wish these L plates were cheaper) I also always upgraded to https://www.brownells.com/gun-parts/magazines/magazine-accessories/ar-15-30-round-magazine-springs/ in the Brownells mags. No need in the EPMs.
I hate to bag on BigBrown but over the years of ordering mags from there--and I still order them when tan are in stock--I learned early on the springs inside could be anything-SS/CS and possibly rusty or pitted out of the box. Had some in storage from early GWOT time frame--still had the black followers and spring quality randomizer. Same lot/shipping box and some of the springs looked like new while others looked like my house was near the ocean and had constant sea spray for ten years. Or take ten out side by side and set all the springs next to each other--one would think they are all pretty much same length with no tension.... nope, and I mean it's like basic training when you first get into formation before you start tapping shoulders.
Wish OKay was still cranking out their surefeed e2 mags, I should have bought more of them. Take them apart, all same, every time, stored loaded or unloaded--New, used or abused.
Have been gradually standardizing on IMI now for past year in 556. So far, has always been low flash propellant and have not had a single round malfunction! (gun malfunctions yes but not driven by ammo quality. Prior to that it was mystery meat of Winchester and LC ammo that may or may not be good to go) Got tired of trying to run down malfunctions overall and decided to start taking variables out of the equation. Once I started using a Labradar chrono, could really tell the X in the XM was not a good thing. Can definitely appreciate unit armorer dilemma now once you have to deal with a rainbow of different gear + ammo = problems/headaches. I guess that's all part of the fun but sometimes it's nice to go to the range and not come back with more projects than you started with for the day. Sometimes I just put the guns back in the closet without cleaning..... :ph34r::ph34r::ph34r:
Picked up a few of these in various camo versions a couple of months ago and really like how they turned out!
https://www.odinlaserworks.com/backpacks
ViniVidivici
11-26-23, 02:10
Right on, that is an outstanding way to differentiate things.
Me, it's a 1/3rd width strip of 100 mile an hour tape around the base.
Green is my primary load, 62gr FMJ w/24.4 gr H335, very accurate in all the guns.
Black is 55gr SP.
M855 is brown.
75gr OTMs are in 20 rounders.
Tracer is orange.
Training mags are blue.
shadowspirit
11-26-23, 06:36
...USGI aluminum *Okay and Brownells are M193. Brownells are always modified with either magpul or KAC followers with magpul L-plates (realllllly wish these L plates were cheaper) I also always upgraded to https://www.brownells.com/gun-parts/magazines/magazine-accessories/ar-15-30-round-magazine-springs/ in the Brownells mags. No need in the EPMs...
Those springs are flat wire ones, though the steel is common stainless. I wonder how much longer they last in flat wire form.
Those springs are flat wire ones, though the steel is common stainless. I wonder how much longer they last in flat wire form.
Not sure, but when I take them apart about every year or two I don't notice any changes in length. Factory/regular cs/ss springs will start to vary in a year. I'm not sure at what point standard cs/ss springs start to fail in terms of compressed length/lack of compressability/lack of rebound ability. I haven't measured those factors.
To answer the original question, I had my Colt 1911 cerokoted some years back, it looked good for a while. The guy who did it coated the feed ramp and breach face which immediately started to chip off and feeding issues. I had another smith polish it off. The cerokote began to wear off in the high points from the holster, I kept refining my sights and the zero I wanted. Finally found my ideal sight set and a zero that hits where I want out to 50-60 yards. The gun is very reliable, no issues with full power ammo and good mags. I don't want to F it up!!
The bare steel gets rust spots in this tropical environment. What to do? Rattle can, that's what. Yes, it wears off quickly on the rub points but touching up is easy. It's a bit ugly but it runs and hits where I want. The next time I "refinish" it I'll take some acetone to it to thin out previous coats.
grizzlygunner999
01-16-24, 18:20
Rapco is pretty awesome stuff https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240117/1d77b60a8a793949c4d535ecf243fdbb.jpg
Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk
shadowspirit
02-16-24, 01:51
Rapco is pretty awesome stuff https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240117/1d77b60a8a793949c4d535ecf243fdbb.jpg
Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk
Never heard of it. How much does it cost?
Never heard of it. How much does it cost?http://www.rapcoparts.com/spraypaint.html
From what I’ve read shipping is pricey, but it’s a great alternative to Aervoe.
Someone on Reddit made a comparison of the various shades: https://old.reddit.com/r/rattlecannedguns/comments/178uv33/rapco_paint_sample_megathread/
shadowspirit
02-20-24, 06:33
@bryan1211
Thanks.
Look for local military vehicle clubs. A lot of times at their flea markets there will be people selling rapco and Aervo spray cans individually and in cartons for much less of what you can order them and have it shipped in small quantities.
shadowspirit
02-21-24, 22:53
Look for local military vehicle clubs. A lot of times at their flea markets there will be people selling rapco and Aervo spray cans individually and in cartons for much less of what you can order them and have it shipped in small quantities.
Sounds good. Thanks.
Since Rattle Can is the unanimous winner, here's a tip for you guys. I just did my bolt gun yesterday, and finished it off with some clear matte to give it more durability, and a satin/non-tacky finish:
I've used this product before on other projects and it's pretty good, but I just finished my rattle can job with it on a whim yesterday. Came out nice.
https://i.imgur.com/JkJaeWW.jpg
Look for local military vehicle clubs. A lot of times at their flea markets there will be people selling rapco and Aervo spray cans individually and in cartons for much less of what you can order them and have it shipped in small quantities.
Aervoe camo may not exist any more. There is a mention of someone getting the slow cure time too.
https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/aerovoe-military-vehicle-paint.7122532/
Any news on how Rapco application cure time goes in humid USA versus arid/desert USA?
davidjinks
04-09-24, 08:23
It’s cheap, easy, and effective.
I can send out a rifle for cerakote and it’s gonna cost north of 300-500 dollars, shipping, insurance, assembly, disassembly etc.
OR
I can spend $40, get a whole mess of colors, and throw some paint down while breaking up the outline of the rifle.
I noticed most who paint their ARs use low priced rattle can to do it. Some will try Cerakoting, which is the hardest of the firearms coatings to apply, IIRC.
Why don't more people try something like Duracoat, KG Guncoat, or one of Brownells spray-on finishes for firearms? It provides a nicer finish than rattle can and is easier to apply than Cerakote, IIRC. I think there is a rattle can option to apply Duracoat.
Note: I have no affiliation with any of the above companies or products.
It’s cheap, easy, and effective.
Yep. If you're painting for show, you don't need a durable finish. And if you're painting for use, why beat up an expensive finish? I'm sure I posted this earlier, but when the black wears through the paint, the camo works even better... at least in the desert here.
davidjinks
04-09-24, 08:29
Yep! Break up the outline, get it out into the wild, break up the fresh paint. Make everything even better.
Yep. If you're painting for show, you don't need a durable finish. And if you're painting for use, why beat up an expensive finish? I'm sure I posted this earlier, but when the black wears through the paint, the camo works even better... at least in the desert here.
Because it looks cooler and it’s significantly cheaper. And cerakote wears anyway, not matter what they tell you. Be a man, spray paint it.
Because it looks cooler and it’s significantly cheaper.
That's it. A professionally done, flawless finish is gay as hell to me.
ViniVidivici
04-11-24, 10:20
Indeed, we're talking about tools, not jewelry.
I have some buddies who obsess on finish color perfection and that kind of stuff. I don't like my gun to look like a circus creation, but I'm not sweating some flaws here and there.
Indeed, we're talking about tools, not jewelry.
Might seem counter intuitive but the only time I really care about "uber finishes" is my carry gun and that's just because a daily carry is gonna take a lot of holster wear (especially kydex), rain, sweat and elements. So it's about maintenance and not having to do a weekly clean on my carry gun.
With rifles, with the exception of anything collectible, it's a little different. In most cases "spray jobs" are going over a quality factory finish from the start and most of the time it's done for environmental camo or just to keep your scratch and dent carbine from looking quite so scratch and dent. Now I don't personally jump out of planes with my guns, I don't hunt the Taliban and won't be going on a sniper crawl any time soon so most of my Colts are just well maintained. Even my range guns don't get banged around enough to justify spray on maintenance.
But one day, time and money permitting, I'd love to create a winter carbine just "because." I'd have no problem running it in the summer because unless something "really, really bad" happened, I'm not gonna be crawling through the snow looking for trouble anyway. And honestly, the camo finish on my carbine will probably be the last thing to skyline me to the enemy if it all went to shit. I'm 100% certain that if I had to defend the local perimeter from roving bands of FSA types, just as I was setting up on them, my wife would ping my cell phone asking me to pick up bananas from the store.
Any real deal fighters are gonna pick up my red dot emitter, scan my FRS radio or make my well laundered BDU stuff shine with their IR illuminators. And that is why I'm not gonna go hunting trouble and will just see if I can create a "no fly zone" for a half mile in each direction.
Well worn scorched earth black will have to do it for me, goes good with my faded denim camo.
ViniVidivici
04-13-24, 02:06
Well worn scorched earth black will have to do it for me, goes good with my faded denim camo.
Chuck Norris approved!
Yeah Steyr, I hear ya on finish for something often carried. It is important. I'm pretty happy with the DLC finish on the AIM slide on this Glock frame I carry daily. It's finally wearing at the corners, but has shown zero corrosion at any point.
Chuck Norris approved!
Yeah Steyr, I hear ya on finish for something often carried. It is important. I'm pretty happy with the DLC finish on the AIM slide on this Glock frame I carry daily. It's finally wearing at the corners, but has shown zero corrosion at any point.
Only thing in my carry rotation that I've felt compelled to refinish is my P7 and that is because that original HK blue finish isn't very durable.
https://i.imgur.com/66w8xye.jpg
Everything else, SIG P226s, USPs, Glocks (Gen 3s) have held up pretty well.
Gunpartpicker
04-18-24, 17:29
My brother Duracoated his first AR way back when. We had essentially sand blast it off. Ruined the anodizing. It's more fun to PSST a can and be able to change it the next day if you don't like it.
My brother Duracoated his first AR way back when. We had essentially sand blast it off. Ruined the anodizing. It's more fun to PSST a can and be able to change it the next day if you don't like it.
Damn! Yeah.. I ended up removing the paint on an AR at some point when I re-uppered the thing. Was nice to be able to do it myself without damage.
ViniVidivici
04-19-24, 09:36
Yeah I've done some removal at times when it was time to redo, and have found the Krylon is VERY hard to get off the barrel.
Methinks the heat from shooting over time "bakes" it on.
Yeah I've done some removal at times when it was time to redo, and have found the Krylon is VERY hard to get off the barrel.
Methinks the heat from shooting over time "bakes" it on.
Plus the rough surface. I never tried to clean up a barrel. Just a lower.
ViniVidivici
04-19-24, 17:08
Yeah, I only did it because it was a shout-out barrel I'd replaced, and I sold it to someone (for use as some kind of prop, they were aware it was shot out) who wanted it removed.
It was like enamel. Much scraping ensued, and in retrospect I regretted offering the removal as an option. HA!
titsonritz
04-23-24, 00:49
This old thread seems appropriate…
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?214344-Citristrip-Works-well-for-removing-rattlecan-paint&highlight=Citrastrip
Yeah I've done some removal at times when it was time to redo, and have found the Krylon is VERY hard to get off the barrel.
Methinks the heat from shooting over time "bakes" it on.
This times 100. Anyone got any tips for removing my from barrel. I have a rifle that’s been painted for a decade that I want to make black.
This times 100. Anyone got any tips for removing my from barrel. I have a rifle that’s been painted for a decade that I want to make black.
Buy another barrel. :sarcastic:
Actually though... I'd just matte black paint over the camo.
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