View Full Version : Thanks for the advice
davidjinks
12-15-23, 13:22
No purpose in continuing this thread.
Both are solid choices, but I would end up putting a rail on any carbine I bought. With that in mind, I would go the BCM route for my own needs. That doesn't change that Colt is an great brand.
Hammer_Man
12-15-23, 13:41
I’ve only handled the Colt, and it’s a solid shooter. The SOCOM barrel is surprisingly accurate for a govt M4 profile barrel, and when combined with an H2 buffer pretty soft shooting as well.
Colt SOCOM comes as it would from Colt, it is also marked with “Property…”
BCM has the 13” MCMR with the ELW 14.5 pinned barrel.
I have zero issues with pinned barrels.
There was a Colt SOCOM "property" in the shop by me that Pappabear saw. We're both beside ourselves for not grabbing it. (I'm not sure was the MCMR model is) But like Stick said. Can't go wrong with either.
I thought the Colt SOCOM was being hyped until I built one and shot it. Reality can be pleasant at times.
At OP,
Have you looked at the BCM Enhanced MID weight 14.5 upper? Granted I don't believe they make one in total rifle package, but everyone I've talks to says their great, save that I have yet to actually shoot with said barrel. Just thinking it's probably a decent sweet spot between the 2 choices
https://bravocompanyusa.com/bcm-standard-14-5-mid-length-enhanced-medium-weight-fluted-upper-receiver-group-w-mcmr-13-handguard/
titsonritz
12-15-23, 15:06
BCM has the 13” MCMR with the ELW 14.5 pinned barrel..
I have one of these setup for my NV gun. It’s a sweet machine. I have 12” QRF I’ve been debating switching out.
Dont pass on that "US Property" gun, you might start cutting yourself. I love BCM gear but that Colt is equal to the BCM with a bit a nostalgia cool factor. I have an old BCM roll marked lower that is kinda cool that I stamped, so it aint going nowhere. Rollmarks are cool as long as they say the right names.
I say fke it, its Christmas, buy both and put one under the tree. My wife buys me guns all the time around Christmas. What she don't know....Get in the spirit brother! The amount of 9mm she has bought me lately is out of control.
I looked at some BCM full guns and they priced competitively for a gun ready for action with rail etc.
PB
davidjinks
12-15-23, 15:42
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davidjinks
12-15-23, 15:46
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I was all over BCM’s website for the last 2 days.
This particular model is the Enhanced Lightweight, Midlength barrel, which is what has gotten my attention.
I have that middy, ELW upper. Bought mine 1700 years ago when they first came out. I run a AAC mini4 on it. Mark tossed a BRT tube in it to make it shoot better. Those AAC cans are GASSY and its light AF so it needed it badly.
PB
Save money and get a Colt EPR, Trooper or 6960. If you’re gonna use an NX8, might as well make the barrel free float and make the gun as intrinsically accurate as possible.
These two uppers are hardly an apples to apples comparison, so what do you prefer.....a medium contour barrel that'll probably deliver sub MOA performance and isn't free floated, or a really lightweight profile barrel that's unlikely to do much better than 1.5 MOA with a really light weight free float rail.
I have a couple BCM 16" ELW uppers, but I have no desire to spoil their light weight, great handling properties by attaching an LPVO to them. They have micro RDSs,and that's not going to change. I have a few uppers with 16" medium profile barrels that are likely equal to the SOCOM barrel, but they have robust Geissele and Centurion free float rails attached (and LPVOs) to take advantage of the performance delivered by the barrels.
I’ve only handled the Colt, and it’s a solid shooter. The SOCOM barrel is surprisingly accurate for a govt M4 profile barrel,
The Colt SOCOM barrel is not a "govt M4 profile barrel". That's the whole point of it.
...
Bravo Company 14.5” ELW Accuracy: A Quick Look
ELW stands for enhanced light-weight. This barrel is from Bravo Company’s cold-hammer forged series of barrels. The barrel has a “continuous taper” design with a smooth shoulder at the gas block journal, which reportedly improves barrel harmonics. This barrel has a mid-length gas system and a 0.625” gas block journal.
According to Bravo Company, this barrel has a stripped weight of 1 pound, 5 ounces. For comparison, a Colt 14.5” M4 barrel has a stripped weight of 1 pound, 9 ounces.
BCM 14.5” ELW
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/bcm_elw_stock_phonto_01_resized-1298250.jpg
Colt 14.5” M4 barrel. (not stripped)
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/colt_m4_barrel_01_resized-1298030.jpg
I purchased this barrel as part of a BCM factory assembled upper receiver group with the MCMR 13” free-float hand guard. The barrel has BCM’s pinned and welded A2X flash hider.
Shooting off-the-bench at a distance of 100 yards (using a high magnification scope), this barrel produced a 10-shot group that has an extreme spread of 0.946” with a mean radius of 0.33”.
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/bcm_elw_10_shot_group_at_100_yards_01_re-1253570.jpg
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/bcm_14_5_elw_001_resized_08-1253427b-1856118.jpg
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/bcm_elw_borescope_001-2247926.jpg
….
Colt M4A1 SOCOM Barrel Accuracy: Another Look
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/colt_m4a1_with_kac_ras_handguard_001-1881912.jpg
In 2010, I posted one of the first publicly available, in-depth accuracy evaluations of a Colt M4A1 SOCOM barrel. At that time, the Colt SOCOM barrel was relatively new to the civilian market. Many people, including myself, were pleasantly surprised by the level of accuracy/precision that I obtained with the SOCOM barrel; particularly since it is a chrome-lined, NATO chambered “military-grade” barrel. Since that time, the Colt M4A1 SOCOM barrel has developed a significant appreciation amongst AR-15 enthusiasts.
The M4A1 SOCOM barrel
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/colt_m4_socom_barrel_01_resized-1305762.jpg
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/colt_m4_socom_barrle_02_rsized-1305763.jpg
More recently, I assembled another upper receiver group based on the Colt M4A1 SOCOM barrel. This new build features a Colt cage-code marked M4 upper receiver, a Colt “C” marked bolt carrier group and a 13” Geissele MK14 M-LOK free-float hand-guard.
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/colt_socom_21d_resized-1305765.jpg
A genuine Colt M4A1 SOCOM barrel is 14.5” long and has a medium contour; it is not an HBAR. The barrel has a 5.56mm NATO chamber and a 1:7” twist.
Colt SOCOM barrel
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/stripped_socom_barrel_02_resized-1305778.jpg
Colt HBAR
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/colt_16_inch_hbar_6721_02-1305761.jpg
A genuine SOCOM barrel has the typical M4 circumferential cut-out located approximately 1.4” forward of the gas block for the attachment of an M203 grenade launcher, as well as rectangular shaped cut-outs underneath the hand-guards on the port and starboard sides of the barrel, located approximately 1.4” aft of the gas block, for the same reason. The gas port on a genuine SOCOM barrel has a diameter of 0.062” and the barrel employs a carbine-length gas system.
The SOCOM barrel has a stripped weight of 1 pound, 14 ounces. That is only 2 ounces heavier than the ubiquitous 16” government profile barrel found on the Colt 6920.
Colt SOCOM barrel
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/stripped_socom_barrel_02_resized-1305778.jpg
Colt 6920 barrel
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/Colt_16_inch_government_profile_6920_bar-1305760.jpg
The stripped weight of the SOCOM barrel is 5 ounces heavier than the stripped weight of the standard Colt 14.5” M4 barrel. The pic below shows the difference between the standard M4 barrel and the SOCOM barrel. From the gas block journal forward, the two barrels are identical
SOCOM barrel on top, standard barrel on bottom
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/socom_barrel_comparison_to_standard_m4_b-1305776.jpg
The next pic is a close-up comparing the two barrels in the area between the chamber and the gas block journal, showing you where the extra weight is added.
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/socom_barrel_comparison_02-1305775.jpg
The date-code on my original SOCOM barrel was “11/03” and the date-code on my newer SOCOM barrel is “02/18”
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/date_code_fro_socom_barrel_01-1305768.jpg
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/new_socom_barrel_date_code_01_resized-1305773.jpg
My original SOCOM barrel had an “F-marked” front sight base. Colt no longer stamps an “F” on their front sight bases, but their newer front sight bases maintain the length of 1.98” from the top of the barrel to the shelf for the front sight post.
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/f_marked_front_sight_base_of_socom_barre-1305770.jpg
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/f_marked_front_sight_base_comparison_21-1305769.jpg
My original SOCOM barrel was stamped:
“C MP 5.56 NATO 1/7”
The newer SOCOM barrel is stamped with Colt’s cage code.
“13629 M P 5.56 NATO 1/7”
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/socom_barrel_stamp_01_resized-1305777.jpg
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/new_colt_socom_barrel_stamp_01_resized-1305772.jpg
Both of these SOCOM barrels have the “O” stamp near the chamber portion of the barrel. Naturally, the M4A1 SOCOM barrel has M4 feed ramps.
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/0_stamp_for_socom_barrel_01-1305759.jpg
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/m4_feed_ramps_of_socom_barrel_01-1305771.jpg
Accuracy Conmparison
In 2010, my original SOCOM barrel with the “11/03” date-code produced a 10-shot group fired from a distance of 100 yards that had an extreme spread of 0.90”. That group was fired from my bench-rest set-up using match-grade hand-loads and a high magnification scope.
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/colt_socom_barrel_10_shot_group_at_10_ya-1305767.jpg
My newer SOCOM barrel with the “02/18” date-code produced a 10-shot group fired from a distance of 100 yards that had an extreme spread of 0.93”. This group was fired off of sand-bags using match-grade hand-loads and a high magnification scope.
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/colt_socom_2020_10_shot_group_at_100_yar-1305766.jpg
. . . .
davidjinks
12-15-23, 19:02
Excellent information Molon, thank you!
I would say it depends on what your intent is. As Molon has showed both barrels are capable of very good accuracy, with the Colt being a slight edge. The biggest difference is weight and handling, the ELW is a decent bit lighter. So depending on the optic/setup you want that may tip the scales either direction. But they are both wonderful barrels as Molon has demonstrated
When putting a 1-8 on it, id definately go with the lighter barrel and ff handguard.
Hammer_Man
12-16-23, 20:53
The Colt SOCOM barrel is not a "govt M4 profile barrel". That's the whole point of it.
...
You are correct. I meant to say that it’s a standard off the rack button rifled chrome lined barrel, for a standard off the rack carbine. Issued to every Joe in the Army, it’s not a stainless match grade barrel, yet it holds very impressive groups.
davidjinks
12-20-23, 07:26
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davidjinks
12-20-23, 07:28
Deleted
I have 4 Colt rifles with FSB and KAC RAS, they aren’t FF and all use either NF 1-8 or NF 2.5-10. Zero issues with accuracy and precision. Their use isn’t for “precision” purposes, rather HD/SD or for when the great apocalypse befalls us.
(That last part was sarcasm)
Shooting MK262 from 3 of my colts (1:7) yield, roughly, 1.5 MOA at 100 yards. My 6721 HBAR, with proper match ammo, will yield just under 1 MOA at 100 yards. However all those rifles using M193 or M855 will yield, roughly, 2-2.5 MOA as long as I’m doing my part.
I said intrinsically accurate, not practically. Let’s please not argue about whether or not a free floated barrel is or isn’t more intrinsically accurate than a non FF, because it is. Get whatever you like, I couldn’t care less. You ask for opinions, get them, then defend why they’re not valid. Then why even ask? These “What should I buy” posts are growing a tad long in the tooth.
davidjinks
12-20-23, 07:40
Not worth the time or energy with some people
I'm not sure what happened, but I think threads where info is deleted are a great way to see who is unhappy, or who is trolling or just nasty.
This is another example of why we need "like" and "dislike" buttons for posts. A poster who continually gives solid information is not the same as a poster who just likes to argue. A new person looking for help has no way of knowing who they are talking to, or if the info is valid.
Yes, we have special colors for SME and IPs, but I am hoping we can take it a step farther. Plenty of people here do not have "titles", but are rock solid with their info and how they share.
This is another example of why we need "like" and "dislike" buttons for posts. A poster who continually gives solid information is not the same as a poster who just likes to argue. A new person looking for help has no way of knowing who they are talking to, or if the info is valid.
I don't know if we really need a like or dislike button as I don't think it goes in depth enough, where as these long form posts tend to weed out the " WTF" information. I think if anything, we have a lot of brand "x" vs brand "y" but doesn't go into the mindset of what the person is looking for. There is a lot of people on here with good info, but the validity is often tied to the person and how their using it. I do know that Markm doesn't like or use LPVOs and his points on why are valid, it is a compromise, but I still own quite a few LPVOs because of said compromises make sense for the use application I am looking for, but I now also have the knowledge that my 1-10x Razor is great, but will never be amazing at 1x then a Red dot, or 10x like a MPVO. This knowledge broadens my horizons and tells me a lot more about LPVOs in general.
davidjinks
12-20-23, 12:40
It's no worries STICK, I'll just PM you guys in the future as opposed to starting a thread.
I do greatly appreciate the information that has been posted.
I'm not sure what happened, but I think threads where info is deleted are a great way to see who is unhappy, or who is trolling or just nasty.
This is another example of why we need "like" and "dislike" buttons for posts. A poster who continually gives solid information is not the same as a poster who just likes to argue. A new person looking for help has no way of knowing who they are talking to, or if the info is valid.
Yes, we have special colors for SME and IPs, but I am hoping we can take it a step farther. Plenty of people here do not have "titles", but are rock solid with their info and how they share.
davidjinks
12-20-23, 12:44
I was literally asking for advice/information on a purchase that was to be used as a SD/HD rifle with a NF 1-8 on it. That's it. I responded to an obviously pissed off member because I added some information on current rifles I have and their capability in accuracy and precision. That's it.
I find it to be less appealing to have to argue with someone I don't even know on the internet because they take a comment personally.
I don't know if we really need a like or dislike button as I don't think it goes in depth enough, where as these long form posts tend to weed out the " WTF" information. I think if anything, we have a lot of brand "x" vs brand "y" but doesn't go into the mindset of what the person is looking for. There is a lot of people on here with good info, but the validity is often tied to the person and how their using it. I do know that Markm doesn't like or use LPVOs and his points on why are valid, it is a compromise, but I still own quite a few LPVOs because of said compromises make sense for the use application I am looking for, but I now also have the knowledge that my 1-10x Razor is great, but will never be amazing at 1x then a Red dot, or 10x like a MPVO. This knowledge broadens my horizons and tells me a lot more about LPVOs in general.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
12-20-23, 13:42
What is this thread about? Molon posted great info but with the OP on some sort of strange "bandwidth saving" tantrum, it becomes a giant waste of bandwidth in the end.
davidjinks
12-20-23, 14:27
See, comments like this are why people don't continue to participate. There's no tantrum. I just chose to delete and move on.
What is this thread about? Molon posted great info but with the OP on some sort of strange "bandwidth saving" tantrum, it becomes a giant waste of bandwidth in the end.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
12-20-23, 18:55
See, comments like this are why people don't continue to participate. There's no tantrum. I just chose to delete and move on.
My man, take step back. Deleting post after post after post isn't constructive for this forum. Don't be part of the problem...
titsonritz
12-20-23, 21:30
My man, take step back. Deleting post after post after post isn't constructive for this forum. Don't be part of the problem...
It is SOP with this guy.
I'm sorry, but going back and deleting comments you made in a thread is bush league. If, in retrospect, you aren't happy with what you said then maybe you shouldn't have said it in the first place. It's just bad form all the way around and, honestly, speaks to a lack of credibility, transparency and honesty.
davidjinks
12-21-23, 10:27
My posts are still quoted. I didn’t say anything to anyone in any negative manner.
I did in fact say it isn’t worth getting in to arguments on the internet. I guess I’ll just remain disreputable.
I'm sorry, but going back and deleting comments you made in a thread is bush league. If, in retrospect, you aren't happy with what you said then maybe you shouldn't have said it in the first place. It's just bad form all the way around and, honestly, speaks to a lack of credibility, transparency and honesty.
davidjinks
12-21-23, 10:29
I wouldn’t call it SOP. However I do delete things I’ve written. Not sure why that matters to you. But again, you guys continue to prove my point.
It is SOP with this guy.
The delete police, your credibility and honesty called into question. Gonna need a hard bark around here.
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