LMT CIP barrels ?

[Pappabear]

So LMT makes these :

This 6.5CM barrel has a CIP chamber vs a SAAMI specified chamber. The CIP or Permanent International Commission for the Proof of Small Arms, is the European standardization program established to govern the production of arms and ammunition and standardize firearm attributes like proof markings, chamber pressures and chamber dimensions along with procedures to measure these attributes. These barrels have been shot and tested to meet LMT Defense performance standards using US commercial 6.5 Creedmoor ammunition.

Any reason to choose CIP over SAAMI ? The CIP is on sale, and pretty good amount so?


PB

[mRad]

As I understand it, CIP and SAAMI collaborates with newer standards for what it’s worth. Unless you find prints with units converted, I don’t think you’ll get a solid answer. Specs are probably produced based on their target market.


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[lysander]

C.I.P dimensions for all US origin cases and chambers are exactly the same as SAAMI, rounded to the nearest .001 inch.

[sinister]

Please note: SAAMI is the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturing Institute -- compliance is a recommendation and strictly voluntary.

CIP is a common European Union standard -- a weapon successfully proofed in one member country can be exported to any other of the fourteen member states. It is compulsory vice voluntary.

CIP proof standard requires the weapon and ammunition combination not fail a 10% over maximum pressure shot.

[lysander]

Please note: SAAMI is the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturing Institute -- compliance is a recommendation and strictly voluntary.

CIP is a common European Union standard -- a weapon successfully proofed in one member country can be exported to any other of the fourteen member states. It is compulsory vice voluntary.

CIP proof standard requires the weapon and ammunition combination not fail a 10% over maximum pressure shot.

In most EU nations mandate proofing for civilian sale within the country too.

And your numbers are a bit misleading. According to C.I.P.:

Pmax = maximum average pressure

PK = 1.15 Pmax = maximum statistical individual pressure (or Pmax + 3σ)

PE = 1.25 Pmax = mean proof pressure

This, like SAAMI pressure limits also control the pressure Standard Deviation, as the Pmax, PK, and PE are specified on the Tables of Dimensions of Cartridges and Chambers (TDCC) for each cartridge.

[sinister]

I concur.

I was wrong and you are correct about CIP certification -- PE is 25% proof mean over-max pressure, not 10%.

There are certain nuances -- SAAMI has changed certain dimensions over the years to comply with CIP -- case in point, .338 Lapua Magnum American max length was shorter than CIP for many years until they altered their drawings in 2007.

A wild card is NATO EPVAT testing that goes further than SAAMI testing as well.

[Pappabear]

So, at the end of the day for just some homer like me that wants to shoot the piss out of his 6.5CM, is there any concern in shooting these barrels? I'm not smart enough for all this CIP, EPVAT, PK and PE, I just buy guns and yank on the Geissele.

PB

[HKGuns]

So, at the end of the day for just some homer like me that wants to shoot the piss out of his 6.5CM, is there any concern in shooting these barrels? I'm not smart enough for all this CIP, EPVAT, PK and PE, I just buy guns and yank on the Geissele.

PB

I'd say your only concern is that your official house reloader gets too old and starts double charging your ammo! :)

[Pappabear]

Copy that.
PB