How about a chart showing optic center height over bore?

[Ron3]

Of popular configurations. (Or any others)

I see different configurations and guys talk about which is higher or lower but I see very few numbers.

[MegademiC]

For what? It really doesnt matter.

Pro shooters are winning with sigs, berettas, and CZs all with different measurements.

[Inkslinger]

I think optics height over bore is more of a rifle thing. There’s a pretty big range of heights in mounts. The difference in heights of dots on pistols is so close that it’s almost irrelevant.

[Ron3]

For what? It really doesnt matter.

Pro shooters are winning with sigs, berettas, and CZs all with different measurements.

Seems like it.

My Beretta RDO Centurion seems to have more muzzle flip than the Springfield .45 XDM-E I had. More than my 686 3" Plus too but that's because the 686 is steel.

Putting an optic on my 96A1 resulted in a stupid amount of flip.

So I'm thinking a chart that showed various sight heights over bores will probably correlate with perceived muzzle flip with an optic.

The RDO with HS507C is about 1 in. It's not easy to measure precisely.

The 686 is about 1.2 in.

I don't have the XDM-E any more.

I looked for HOB for Glocks & S&W M&P's and such but couldn't find this data.

[MegademiC]

I’ll take some measurements for you if I remember.

With practice, the flip doesn’t matter if you train for the dot to return to the same place.
I don’t like certain guns (like sig 226/229) for the same reason, but it’s a preference - it should not affect performance.

Edit- this is basically bore axis. You mean hieght over top of the grip or over the bore?

[Ron3]

I’ll take some measurements for you if I remember.

With practice, the flip doesn’t matter if you train for the dot to return to the same place.
I don’t like certain guns (like sig 226/229) for the same reason, but it’s a preference - it should not affect performance.

Edit- this is basically bore axis. You mean hieght over top of the grip or over the bore?

I could have described that more clearly.

I'm really talking about the extra flip caused from having a little extra weight mounted high on the recipricating slide.

I didn't notice extra rotation from the revolver. I think I perceived a little from a .45 XDME C, none from the M&P 2.0 .45 Leopold MicroDot, none on a VZ61, mone from an AP5-P, noticeably more from the 92X RDO, (and the hotter the ammo, the more there is) and alot more from a 96A1. (Although with 155 gr bullets it was already substantial)

These are the handguns I've used with RDO's.

My theory is whatever recoil a reciprocating slide pistol has an optic will increase it, the heavier and higher the optic is the more flip there will be.

Further I'm thinking optics are probably best on 9mm pistols than heavier-recoilong cartridges unless the more powerfull cartridge is being fired from a heavier, steel-framed gun. Or a revolver.

A tall slide with a high-mounted optic and lightweight frame seems to a bad set-up. More so in heavier-recoilong cartridge.

That's true it shouldn't effect performance if the dot returns to the target. It sucks when it doesn't. When happens with corser irons, I may not notice but fire and still get a good / decent hit. With the prescision of an optic, I notice and hold fire to correct my aim, unnecessarily slowing things down.

I wouldn't mind trying a larger moa RDS. Ive only used 1-3 mm dots.

Sorry to ramble.

It's New Years Eve and I'm home sick. :(

[26 Inf]

Ron3: This book is a good, actually better than good, red dot instruction program, which addresses the things you've brought up in your posts:

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71LqSLIQdVL._SL1500_.jpg

https://www.amazon.com/Red-Dot-Mastery-astigmatism-both-eyes-open/dp/B0CR1DWBDD/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=

or from their website: https://reddotmastery.com/

The website reads like an infomercial, but the book is well organized, well written and has cutting edge info about quickly learning to shoot the red dot AND iron sights.

[Ron3]

Thanks

[ndmiller]

Thanks I grabbed a copy from their website. Can't get over decades of focusing on the front sight and I've spent $17 on breakfast before.

[MegademiC]

Thanks I grabbed a copy from their website. Can't get over decades of focusing on the front sight and I've spent $17 on breakfast before.

Have you tried shooting occluded?

[Ron3]

My top issue now isn't not having a dot when I present from standing still.

My problems:

- Sometimes no dot when drawing from other than "common" stance. (I've been working on this dryfire)

- Sometimes no dot when drawing while moving (Working on this, too)

- Sometimes no dot when drawing one-handed. (And working on this)

- Sometimes losing dot during fire while moving. (This has to be worked on at the range)

Sure, this happens with irons, too. But it's easier to get the front sight back to a coarse aim and accept that course aim.

When the dot is lost my current options seem to be pull the trigger and hope (bad) or stop firing until I get it back. (Not firing at the threat, bad.)

Does this book address such things?

[Pappabear]

Ive never noticed more muzzle flip, but Ive been told my guns doesn't move a whole lot. If there is more flip, I still shoot dots so much better. That said I would like to see if there is a correlation. I would think gun weight ( and distribution of weight) and grip module would be more determining factors but I'm all about learning. Those capable of measuring., lets see what you got ?

PB

[jnr4817]

Well shit, just saw this was for pistols.

What I’ve come up with. I need someone to check my math. Using bcm risers with exps3’s.

Height Over Bore Reference

**Top of Rail** (Bore line to top of standard picatinny rail)
Height over bore: 1.215”

**Absolute Cowitness**
Mount height: 1.420”
Height over bore: 2.635”

**Lower 1/3**
Mount height: 1.570”
Height over bore: 2.785”

**Tall**
Mount height: 1.930”
Height over bore: 3.145”

**BCM 525**
Mount height: 2.095”
Hob with exps3: 3.31”

**Unity fast**
Mount height: 2.26”
Hob exps3: 3.475”

[titsonritz]

Well shit, just saw this was for pistols.

What I’ve come up with. I need someone to check my math. Using bcm risers with exps3’s.

Height Over Bore Reference

**Top of Rail** (Bore line to top of standard picatinny rail)
Height over bore: 1.215”

**Absolute Cowitness**
Mount height: 1.420”
Height over bore: 2.635”

**Lower 1/3**
Mount height: 1.570”
Height over bore: 2.785”

**Tall**
Mount height: 1.930”
Height over bore: 3.145”

**BCM 525**
Mount height: 2.095”
Hob with exps3: 3.31”

**Unity fast**
Mount height: 2.26”
Hob exps3: 3.475”

May as well add…
**GBRS**
Mount height: 2.91”