View Full Version : BCM CS - what happened?
I tried installing a BCM QD Mount (brand new in packaging) I bought years ago in a new build. It wouldn’t go in any of the keymods on all the rails, and wouldn’t go in two other uppers including a BCM itself. They asked for photos and said by the photos that they can tell the upper was out of spec, even the other once’s including BCM that they didn’t see photos of. Really? I contacted PSA and they said that never happened before with a BCM KEYMOD attachment.
Then BCM CS just flat out stopped replying to me over a $17 part, accused me of not buying it from them(until I showed them my email receipt). I told them i contacted the manufacturer and that’s when they stopped responding. I was, up until now, a massive BCM fanboy, defending them always, spending almost $10,000 on their stuff, then they accuse me of not buying the $17 part from them (not true) and refusing to swap out the defective part for a new one, but apparently that’s too much for BCM, despite all the money I’ve spend on them. What a let down. Just wanted to warn all you good people BCM CS isn’t what it used to be. Buy at your own risk.
I’ve had good luck with their CS, granted a few years ago.
Shit happens.
Guess if your $17 part experience is enough to quit them, I understand, it coulda been an entire upper.
Interesting. I've had good luck with BCM Customer Service in the past, but I only used them once before for one of their flash-comps threads being out of spec back in 2014ish. They've also been good at replying to me when asking their Gas Port Sizing, which they claim is a "industry secret" or something along those lines. Let us know how this goes, hopefully they'll end up taking care of you for this.
On one occasion, I ordered a midlength gas tube from them that had the port and roll pin holes drilled out of sync with the bend in the tube. Had me send pics and long detailed explanations, only to ultimately blow me off and refuse to replace it. Definitely soured me a bit. It was a $10 part.
ETA: What made the experience a bit shittier, and made me question their integrity, was that I wasn't able to leave an honest, polite, and fair 2 star review on their site. The review simply was never posted, even when I tried reposting. Upon perusing their reviews, I noticed that they only allow 5 star reviews. Kind of a turn off. And I have 2 complete BCM rifles, and one of their older DLC coated BCGs which have all worked just fine, with the exception of the rifles being overgassed.
I’ve had good luck with their CS, granted a few years ago.
Shit happens.
Guess if your $17 part experience is enough to quit them, I understand, it coulda been an entire upper.
Same here brother. They used to have to best CS I’ve ever seen, granted that was years ago. And I used to be an irrational BCM fanboy, I got into super heated arguments with people that even hinted that anything was wrong with BCM. Now, I’ve spent thousands of thousands of dollars on their stuff, hundreds of posts defending them, and they accuse me of not buying it from them because they switched their customer database several times not carrying over the previous customer purchases and accuse me of not buying anything.
I have a 7 email exchange over a tiny, stupid $17 part, and they basically give me the middle finger. I feel like a total idiot for defending them (almost irrationally at times) for over the past 15 years. Their CS has basically become the exact opposite of Geissele. I’ll never buy any of their stuff ever again. I hope it was worth the $17 defective part over the thousands of dollars BCM. I hope people read this and don’t become a BCM brainwashed idiot like I did.
I've been seeing more stories like this about them lately...Wonder what's going on?
It's too bad, cause I like them and have a lot of their stuff. In fact, I was getting ready to order a couple spare bolts from them.
Remember the Gen 3 PMAG's not fitting in to some BCM receivers and their response? I lost all respect for them back then. I think they do make a lot of good products but they don't seem to stand behind them so much if you get a lemon.
Diamondback
01-15-24, 12:22
Paging @Stickman...
Post up the pictures please so we can see the issue. Otherwise, its just reads like you are bashing them and having a pity party for yourself. I am NOT saying that is what you are doing, but it seems like most of the time when there are posts like this there is a secondary component missing from the total issue at hand.
Thanks, and I await the images.
Paging @Stickman...
We do work with BCM as a company, but my comments now are no different than when BCM first opened up and we had no direct involvement. BCM makes solid products. That being said, every machine can break, and every person can make mistakes. Combine those two things, and add in the internet, and things start to get murky rather quickly. Add in people who may be something other than proficient users of the equipment involved, and things can go from murky to ugly in a split second.
Look at when the clowns on arfcom took the comment about barrels which BCM made and went insane. BCM quoted their barrels were made to milspec, and as such, they were rated for the military standard rate of fire (I'm paraphrasing). Arfcom took that comment out of the given context and it took years for people to get over it.
I will state for the record that I am a user of BCM weaponry and components, and have carried them into harms way, as well as trained heavily with them on a frequent basis. My comments are based on my own personal experiences, inside information, and additional sources within the industry. My qualifications to talk about the AR15/ M16/ M4 platform have been listed numerous times, and to state them again would just sound pompous. In addition, I shoot or have shot images as a professional photographer for many if not most of the AR15 and related industry (to include BCM).
Lastly, when I ask for images or additional information from someone, it is an attempt to help alleviate issues for both the problem individual, as well as others who may find themselves in similar situations. It is not a FU, or "shut up and prove it".
Diamondback
01-15-24, 13:32
Entirely fair, amigo--my thought was if you saw this it'd be swiftly put to bed one way or the other. :)
The red arrows are simply to point in the direction of the muzzle. So you work for BCM? Interesting.
It also doesn’t fit on two other vendors besides PSA, including BCM itself, but that seemed to make BCM angry, and stop replying. I have another BCM KEYMOD on another BCM upper that fits perfectly, but not this one. I guess according to BCM it’s all my fault.
Post up the pictures please so we can see the issue. Otherwise, its just reads like you are bashing them and having a pity party for yourself. I am NOT saying that is what you are doing, but it seems like most of the time when there are posts like this there is a secondary component missing from the total issue at hand.
Thanks, and I await the images.
Images below just like you requested. Explanation?
So the socket wont slide forward even with the fasteners loose as possible?
So the socket wont slide forward even with the fasteners loose as possible?
Exactly. Even on two BCM uppers (one of the BCM uppers has a BCM QD Mount I put on years ago that still works perfectly). This BCM QD doesn’t work on the PSA rail, and doesn’t work on the Noveske rail. When I pointed this out and showed it to BCM they just ignored me and stopped writing. Had I known I was going to take all these photos and write all of these messages over this stupid $17 part I never would have, however, at least now I know the BCM’s customer service is the exact opposite of what it used to be. So for $17 it’s worth it so I never buy any high ticket BCM items ever again.
The red arrows are simply to point in the direction of the muzzle. So you work for BCM? Interesting.
No, he actually went to great lengths to explain that while he has a relationship with BCM he does NOT in fact work for them.
These photos don't prove to me that the sling mount is defective. A photo showing the screws and backing nuts might be helpful. I've needed to loosen the screws quite a bit before the mounts would slide into position.
These photos don't prove to me that the sling mount is defective. A photo showing the screws and backing nuts might be helpful. I've needed to loosen the screws quite a bit before the mounts would slide into position.
I loosened them to the maximum without them falling out. But BCM wouldn’t even let me do an exchange. Why doesn’t it work on BCM but the identical item doesn’t? All I got is a $17 lesson to never buy BCM products again because they don’t back up their products anymore and treat their customers (who’ve spend tons of money) like garbage. If a customer has a problem? Just ignore them. They wouldn’t even let me mail the item for them to inspect it. Never again. Maybe Paul sold the company to some dirtbag.
These photos don't prove to me that the sling mount is defective. A photo showing the screws and backing nuts might be helpful. I've needed to loosen the screws quite a bit before the mounts would slide into position.
These things are hard to figure out online without the parts in front of you, but I'd pull the fasteners completely out and see if the item would slide into position. Maybe Cane55 has already tried this.
Ya, I was thinking the same thing.
I've never messed with Keymod but know I have had to do the same on some MLOK stuff. Assuming its the same principle.
Either way, poor CS from any company sucks. Whether its on a $17 part or a $1500 rifle. But especially on 1 $17 part when the easiest, most cost effective and sure way to please the client is to just send them another one to try out.
No, he actually went to great lengths to explain that while he has a relationship with BCM he does NOT in fact work for them.
If I list the companies we shoot pics for, I'm bragging. If I mention the industry connections, I'm bragging. If I mention publications, I'm bragging. If I mention military and/ or police careers, I'm showing off. If I give examples, I'm not fair. If I list qualifications I'm back to bragging. If I talk about correct nomenclature or for clarifications to help people, I'm a bad person and up to something. The list goes on and on. Heaven forbid I don't do one of those things, then I'm hiding the truth and people have suddenly discovered a secret.
I would hope I've helped people, but honestly there are times where its just not going to work for some individuals.
If I list the companies we shoot pics for, I'm bragging. If I mention the industry connections, I'm bragging. If I mention publications, I'm bragging. If I mention military and/ or police careers, I'm showing off. If I give examples, I'm not fair. If I list qualifications I'm back to bragging. If I talk about correct nomenclature or for clarifications to help people, I'm a bad person and up to something. The list goes on and on. Heaven forbid I don't do one of those things, then I'm hiding the truth and people have suddenly discovered a secret.
I would hope I've helped people, but honestly there are times where its just not going to work for some individuals.
I was just discussing this reality with a co worker earlier. In the early days of internet forums, they would attract SME's who would gladly lend their expertise to those who asked. Saw this on motorcycle racing forums, martial arts forums, gun forums etc etc. Then, everyone became an expert. I recall an argument over riding technique once, between a lowly club level racer and the guy who was leading the points in AMA Superbike at the time. It was comical. After awhile the SME's just got tired of trying to educate those who think they know better and moved on. Back when I was an instructor on the race track my favorite retort from a student after being given a piece of instruction was "Well, I read on the internet....."
Show us a picture of it not fitting the KMR rail then show us a picture of the QD mount above the rail. (Side view) Verify that you are not trying to install it over the gas block.
titsonritz
01-15-24, 17:01
Show us a picture of it not fitting the KMR rail then show us a picture of the QD mount above the rail. (Side view) Verify that you are not trying to install it over the gas block.
Sure does look like it is right next to the gas block. One of downsides to KM and ML for me on middies compared to Pic, my support hand wants to be where the gas block is located and has forced me to come up creative solutions for placing scales, support controls, light and switch mounts.
Diamondback
01-15-24, 17:10
If I list the companies we shoot pics for, I'm bragging. If I mention the industry connections, I'm bragging. If I mention publications, I'm bragging. If I mention military and/ or police careers, I'm showing off. If I give examples, I'm not fair. If I list qualifications I'm back to bragging. If I talk about correct nomenclature or for clarifications to help people, I'm a bad person and up to something. The list goes on and on. Heaven forbid I don't do one of those things, then I'm hiding the truth and people have suddenly discovered a secret.
I would hope I've helped people, but honestly there are times where its just not going to work for some individuals.
Catch-22. Some people here are kinda like something I've observed in other places, Jesus Himself could personally descend from Heaven to craft each of them a rifle uniquely perfected to their personal needs and they'd bitch about him robbing them of the fun of complaint. Hang in there, man. :)
And please know that you HAVE helped, every so often I find myself asking "What Would Stick Do" when encountering a tough one. And if Roy Huntington calls and tells me he wants a writeup on that longslide 1911 I'm building... no diss to Ichiro Nagata intended but in that scenario I'd rather have you do the photography, or the two of you split the work.
Sure does look like it is right next to the gas block. One of downsides to KM and ML for me on middies compared to Pic, my support hand wants to be where the gas block is located and has forced me to come up creative solutions for placing scales, support controls, light and switch mounts.
It’s nowhere near the gas block, in fact it’s at the rear most part of the rail. If you look you can see some wear & tear from the built in QD mount in the rail on the very back of the rail, that’s why I wanted to install a Keymod mount so I wouldn’t wear out the built in QD in the rail.
71279
Look at when the clowns on arfcom took the comment about barrels which BCM made and went insane. BCM quoted their barrels were made to milspec, and as such, they were rated for the military standard rate of fire (I'm paraphrasing). Arfcom took that comment out of the given context and it took years for people to get over it.
I thought that was because they accused (two?) guys of firing full auto for xxxx rounds or massive volume outside of full auto fire, but he/they explicitly claimed to have very low round count on the barrels.
I just got an email from BCM CS saying they will inspect the Mount to see if it’s defective or not. So I thought I’d mention that was a decent thing to do, although swapping them would be much easier (mine is brand new out of the packaging two days ago). If they don’t send a return shipping label (especially what a generous customer I’ve been and always protected and fought for them) then I won’t send it back because it will just be cheaper to buy a new one (different manufacturer). I just wanted to give BCM some credit for “inspecting” the Mount (although sending two screws would probably solve the problem). Geissele would just instantly send a new one right away, however BCM inspecting it is better than nothing.
My issue isn’t with the defective Mount, it’s the dozen emails for something so small and cheap, and gives me great pause to buy any items from them due to making things right so incredibly difficult. Even PSA has great customer service and will make things right immediately. That’s the way BCM used to be when Paul was hands on. I was a BCM worshipper and were my favorite brand. But after this massive and lengthy PIA over such a nothing has really given me pause.
Let’s hope BCM makes it right, but if they want longer “War & Peace” email exchanges and saying the rail is out of spec (even two BCM ones) I’m going to move on, especially from all of the BCM complaints over the past several years. It’s bad business to lose a 15 year loyal to the core customer that’s spend around $10,000 due to a $17 defective part. Ill let you know what happens when they email me back (hopefully).
UPDATE - Despite all of this I have to give credit where credit is due. BCM is mailing me out a prepaid return label so they can inspect the KEYMOD Mount. I thought it was a classy move and good customer service and wanted to share it with you guys. Good or bad I’ll call it out, but this was good and I wanted to let you guys know it was a class move by BCM. Maybe my days of being a BCM fanboy aren’t over quite yet, we’ll see.
I’d contact BCM and say your qd doesn’t fit in your rail. Request they replace one of them so they fit.
I’m sure they’ll opt for the 17$ qd.
It’s tough times. These companies came to be powerhouses after the fall of the AWB and during the gwot. Things are not what they were 2006-2016. It was a fun time.
I’d contact BCM and say your qd doesn’t fit in your rail. Request they replace one of them so they fit.
I’m sure they’ll opt for the 17$ qd.
It’s tough times. These companies came to be powerhouses after the fall of the AWB and during the gwot. Things are not what they were 2006-2016. It was a fun time.
It’s a great idea, but I’ve already tried it, but didn’t flat out ask for a new one, I just mentioned swapping out the defective one for the new one but they refused. Hopefully when they “inspect it” something good will happen, but I’m not holding my breath.
Due to the countless back and forth emails, the posts here about the situation, it’s probably cost me $150-$200 in the time value of money wasting my time on a tiny out of spec $17 part. But they said they would inspect it so let’s give them the benefit of the doubt (for now). If I had known I would have gone through this obstacle course I just would have thrown it away and bought a new one. Thank God it wasn’t a $2000 BCM rifle. It’s weird though, Paul is such a good guy and is all about top level customer service.
titsonritz
01-16-24, 15:22
Glad to see it looks like they are going to take care of you. I’ve been very pleased with all my BCM products and have never had to use their CS beyond inquiries.
Glad to see it looks like they are going to take care of you. I’ve been very pleased with all my BCM products and have never had to use their CS beyond inquiries.
I’ve bought so much BCM things over the past 15 years it’s insane. Unfortunately they’ve changed their customer database at least 3 times and didn’t carry over the information so they said I never bought anything from them. Then they said they checked their old system and still nothing. Luckily I still had my old email receipt from 2016 to prove it to them. I’ve only had one problem with them in all the years I’ve been a customer, when I bought a brand new BCM buffer tube that showed up with a massive metal gouge in the threading so bad you could see silver aluminum and couldn’t thread the buffer tube into the lower.
I emailed them with photos, they said it doesn’t matter it’s just “cosmetic” and refused to swap it out. I paid for a brand new one, not a “scratch and dent sale” but they kept insisting there was nothing wrong with it, even though, the threads were totally thrashed. Finally after about 5 emails chains back and forth, they said I could return it for a new one. So I had to pay the $15 shipping fee out of my own pocket and they sent me a non damaged one. It was frustrating having to plead with them (with many photos that it was too damaged to use for a build, but since it was it was within 30 days they allowed me to exchange it). Pretty annoying but I wrote it off because I had BCM Stockholm Syndrome at the time. That was the only problem I had with BCM besides this little KMOD QD Mount. I’m hoping they will fix it. Paul is a good dude has high moral character and would not screw over an old and generous customer after 15 years (I hope).
BCM emailed me a shipping label via email, print out a form to fill out about what’s wrong with the Mount, why I’m returning it and mail it in my own container so they can inspect it and investigate it (a tiny QD MLOCK Mount). Driving to the UPS store, waiting on line, for a $17 part that doesn’t work. I can understand if it’s a $2000 rifle, but my time is worth more than $17 for over an hour to send it to them only to get the same one back saying “we’ve found nothing wrong with it, all your rails are defective (even the BCM’s you tried them on.” I’d be happier deadlifting a Buick LeSabre.
Not worth my time or stress for such a nothing burger. Gonna throw it away unless someone wants it for free. However the $17 was absolutely worth every penny for the discovery of knowledge about BCM’s new customer service. Worth the whole incident so I don’t make a $1500-$2000 mistake in the future. Lots of great folks on this board, which is why I wanted to share this story with you so it doesn’t happen to you. I know there are hardcore BCM fanboys (like I used to be myself to the max) who will attack and criticize me for something that isn’t my fault, my message is to all the good people here, because if this happened to one of you I’d definitely want to know about it.
Diamondback
01-16-24, 18:23
M-Lok on a Keymod rail? That could be the problem.
M-Lok on a Keymod rail? That could be the problem.
No, Keymod on a Keymod rail. That shouldn’t be a problem.
71284
71285
the AR-15 Junkie
01-16-24, 18:51
BCM emailed me a shipping label via email, print out a form to fill out about what’s wrong with the Mount, why I’m returning it and mail it in my own container so they can inspect it and investigate it (a tiny QD MLOCK Mount). Driving to the UPS store, waiting on line, for a $17 part that doesn’t work. I can understand if it’s a $2000 rifle, but my time is worth more than $17 for over an hour to send it to them only to get the same one back saying “we’ve found nothing wrong with it, all your rails are defective (even the BCM’s you tried them on.” I’d be happier deadlifting a Buick LeSabre.
Not worth my time or stress for such a nothing burger. Gonna throw it away unless someone wants it for free. However the $17 was absolutely worth every penny for the discovery of knowledge about BCM’s new customer service. Worth the whole incident so I don’t make a $1500-$2000 mistake in the future. Lots of great folks on this board, which is why I wanted to share this story with you so it doesn’t happen to you. I know there are hardcore BCM fanboys (like I used to be myself to the max) who will attack and criticize me for something that isn’t my fault, my message is to all the good people here, because if this happened to one of you I’d definitely want to know about it.
I got a SIG 308 rifle with Sig factory Keymod rail. I have a BCM QD attachment on it, fits fine, send it to me and I will try it on my rifle. Send me a PM, I can pay you shipping.
I got a SIG 308 rifle with Sig factory Keymod rail. I have a BCM QD attachment on it, fits fine, send it to me and I will try it on my rifle. Send me a PM, I can pay you shipping.
DM me your info. But don’t get mad at me if it doesn’t work though. I’ve tried it on PSA, BCM, Noveske, won’t go forward. Send it in a bubble wrap thing though the size of the package, it will be easier and less expensive for you.
By the way, I also have a BCM Keymod QD Mount on my BCM upper that’s worked perfectly for 8 years. But this Mount won’t work on that rail.
To close this out, as one employee here who attacked and criticized me here as having a “pitty party” unless I show photos (which I did) why would I do that? I’ve been a member here for 14 years and have 344 pots while others have thousands in a fraction of the time. Why would I waste my time with a “pitty party” whatever that means? For the record I have nothing against BCM products (I own a ton of them) what disturbs me is the way they treat their customers, especially loyal, long time customers who’ve spent thousands of dollars and defended them voraciously on social media. But now I’m the bad guy for some reason because some little shit part doesn’t work. You can go as fanboy as you want, I really don’t care, I have much better things to do than argue about meaningless things.
If I knew this thread would be so long of people accusing me of lies (unless I prove it with photos - which I did again) I just wouldn’t have even made this post and thrown the stupid Mount in the trash. I just wanted to let the good people here know, which is most all of you, what happened to me, and if you plan on getting a high ticket item from BCM, don’t be shocked when the CS isn’t like SOLGW, Geissele, Novekse, Knights etc. BCM does make very high quality items so you probably won’t need to contact their CS anyway. All companies get broken parts, parts out of spec, it happens. The difference between the companies is how they handle the situation. Best of luck to all of you.
They’ve replaced two barrels for me. And on the second one, I asked if I could pay to have them p/w a SFMB on for me and they did it for free. I’m happy to tell people about their awesome CS.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
At this point, you appear to have allowed a minor incident really, really irritate you. I’m a BCM fan in principle, but there are plenty of internet lore about BCM being…well, dicks when confronted with QC issues. I’m sure this is a bit of pride in their processes. That said, dude. You’ve spent a lot of time writing out the same thing in numerous posts now.
Cane55, Lets see if I got this right. After reading this thread three times to make sure I haven't missed anything,.
1) You've been a pretty loyal BCM customer over the years and have invested a lot of your hard earned dollars in their products. Check
2) Most recent purchase of one of their products has failed to live up to your expectations to the point that you are seriously considering abstaining from spending any more money to add to BCM coffers. Check
3) You expect a reasonable solution provided by BCM to make things right in a timely manner. Check
4) BCM has in fact did a 180 and have agreed to send you a "Return Shipping Label" so that they may determine if said product is of a defective nature and further consideration may be in order. Check
5) You have decided, for reasons that you have made clear, not to follow through with the process to come to fruition. Check
6) By taking your course of action, you have denied yourself the possibility that your conclusions of said product were correct from the beginning all along. More importantly, all the effort you put in so far will come to naught and the members of this forum will miss out on valuable info that would be provided whether the product is defective or not.
Please reconsider your present course of action and allow BCM to confirm your suspicions. Now would be an appropriate time to indulge in a glass or two of your favorite alcoholic beverage. I know I am, and repeat after me: "Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo, Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo, Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo"!
As always "Be the better Man and Have Nice Day"! Best regards, 3 AE
Cane55, Lets see if I got this right. After reading this thread three times to make sure I haven't missed anything,.
1) You've been a pretty loyal BCM customer over the years and have invested a lot of your hard earned dollars in their products. Check
2) Most recent purchase of one of their products has failed to live up to your expectations to the point that you are seriously considering abstaining from spending any more money to add to BCM coffers. Check
3) You expect a reasonable solution provided by BCM to make things right in a timely manner. Check
4) BCM has in fact did a 180 and have agreed to send you a "Return Shipping Label" so that they may determine if said product is of a defective nature and further consideration may be in order. Check
5) You have decided, for reasons that you have made clear, not to follow through with the process to come to fruition. Check
6) By taking your course of action, you have denied yourself the possibility that your conclusions of said product were correct from the beginning all along. More importantly, all the effort you put in so far will come to naught and the members of this forum will miss out on valuable info that would be provided whether the product is defective or not.
Please reconsider your present course of action and allow BCM to confirm your suspicions. Now would be an appropriate time to indulge in a glass or two of your favorite alcoholic beverage. I know I am, and repeat after me: "Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo, Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo, Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo"!
As always "Be the better Man and Have Nice Day"! Best regards, 3 AE
No, that’s not it at all. Initially when I respectfully and kindly told them the problem, they insinuated I was lying because they saw no purchases of any kind under my name and said there was nothing they could do. I told them that’s impossible because I’ve spent thousands of dollars on their things over the past 15 years. THEN he tells me they switched customer databases and now he sees my purchases, but doesn’t see a purchase again for a Keymod QD Mount. Again, they said I didn’t buy it there.
Then I went through my old emails and found the receipt with the exact order number and customer number and emailed it to him with the proof I did buy it there, and I’m not a liar, who would spend thousands of dollars on BCM products but lie about a $17 QD Mount (which I showed photos of too). This whole disrespectful email exchange (towards me) I found really puzzling and infuriating. I don’t care about some stupid $17 part, what I found unacceptable was the absolute disrespect of the CS who couldn’t find my receipt (3 times and insinuated I was lying) until I showed him the original receipt I kept.
And being treated this way after Ive spent years voraciously defending BCM against situations like now, only to have many people attack me and accuse me of being a liar. after spending thousands of dollars, and then to be attacked by other members calling me a cry baby. Well when your $2000 BCM goes down and they say sorry that’s not on the system - you didn’t buy it here I hope you’re happier than I am, and think that’s great customer service. I guess you can pay for the repairs with a local gunsmith - unless you’re in the latest database and haven’t been deleted from the previous ones.
By the way 3AE, I am the better man. I was the respectful one who didn’t accuse their customer service of lying because their purchase database was erased multiple times. I never used any profanity or aggression, I acted respectfully and always said thank you even each time they said you didn’t buy it here. Please don’t tell me to be the bigger man, I was the bigger man. I’m sick of talking about this crap and will take my business elsewhere - respectfully of course, being bigger man. Even when I was a hardcore BCM fanboy for years I was never this vicious and attacked someone like this before.
I hope BCM resolves your issue. I've only had to deal with their customer service one time. I ordered an upper from BCM. I received an email notification that the upper was delivered. Nothing was on my doorstep, and I never received the upper. I contacted the carrier and BCM. BCM replaced the upper before the investigation was completed and insurance paid. I had another upper in less than a week. I feel that the carrier was at fault and did something with my receiver but BCM stepped up and made it right.
I hope BCM resolves your issue. I've only had to deal with their customer service one time. I ordered an upper from BCM. I received an email notification that the upper was delivered. Nothing was on my doorstep, and I never received the upper. I contacted the carrier and BCM. BCM replaced the upper before the investigation was completed and insurance paid. I had another upper in less than a week. I feel that the carrier was at fault and did something with my receiver but BCM stepped up and made it right.
That’s a great story and shows what great CS they have. BCM makes top quality products, as I know from personal experience for almost 15 years. All gun manufacturers have tiny defects once in a while that’s not their fault. But being accused of not telling the truth several times (plus erasing my large purchase history because I love BCM so much) I felt was disrespectful at the time. And I also considered it might be a rule at BCM to verify the item was purchased there that was out of the control of the person I was corresponding with. When I thought about this from BCM’s business side, it made total sense to me because there’s probably low character people who try and game them to get free things, and from that perspective, it made total sense.
I just thought that since my long list of items and money I spent would give me some credibility that I wouldn’t pull a sleazy move like trying to lie about getting a free QD Mount, but then again, the guy I spoke to didn’t know that because all of my information was erased (twice) so he didn’t know that,
However when he did find out I did buy it when I sent him my email receipt, he immediately asked for my address and emailed me a prepaid label to analyze/fix the problem. So from analyzing this from their position (and mine now) they handled it as good and professionally as possible. BCM products are as good as there is, in fact they are so good I’m still going to purchase them and recommend them always. So I DM’d two moderators here to erase this entire thread so new customers (or old ones) don’t think BCM is are top of the line. The only thing I would say is BCM should carry over their customers purchases database so customers don’t think incorrectly (like me) that they never bought anything and avoid things like this. I will contact BCM tomorrow and explain everything and apologize but also understand where I was coming from and my point of view. I still trust BCM with my life and will continue to recommend them at the top of the line to MIL/LE and legal civilians. I want to personally thank 3AE for putting things in perspective and thinking about this from a business, objective point of view. 3AE - you said to be the bigger man, well I am now, I’m manning up and admitting I was wrong.
Cane55 don't allow a $17 dispute ruin our $10K relationship with a good company that has serviced the AR/M4 community for years. I believe there is a misunderstanding here. I don't believe any company would deliberately allow a $17 part to ruin a $10K relationship. The $17 part probably cost BCM $8 to make. Now that BCM found you in their data base allow them to make it right, a reasonable thing to do, right? I don't think they would deliberately try to impugn your character for what probably cost them $8 to make. My thoughts, for what they are worth... Best of luck. -Geo
Cane55 don't allow a $17 dispute ruin our $10K relationship with a good company that has serviced the AR/M4 community for years. I believe there is a misunderstanding here. I don't believe any company would deliberately allow a $17 part to ruin a $10K relationship. The $17 part probably cost BCM $8 to make. Now that BCM found you in their data base allow them to make it right, a reasonable thing to do, right? I don't think they would deliberately try to impugn your character for what probably cost them $8 to make. My thoughts, for what they are worth... Best of luck. -Geo
I'm not sure that the "$10k relationship" part of this is material to why or why not BCM should be standing behind their products. Whether it's a $10 purchase, or a $10,000 one should have no bearing on standing behind one's products. The fact that the CS rep made it a point of contention at all that he couldn't find the OP's purchase history, is really the most disturbing fact of their interaction.
"Faithful in the small things; faithful in the big ones."
I'm not sure that the "$10k relationship" part of this is material to why or why not BCM should be standing behind their products. Whether it's a $10 purchase, or a $10,000 one should have no bearing on standing behind one's products. The fact that the CS rep made it a point of contention at all that he couldn't find the OP's purchase history, is really the most disturbing fact of their interaction.
"Faithful in the small things; faithful in the big ones."
Good point, dully noted...
Than a good question(s) to ask is/are... Should a pass be given, or how much of a pass should be given to a company that has a bad CS representative? Is this CS representative a bad apple or just having a bad day? Is this CS representative actions in line with BCM company values? I understand that's not Cane55's problem, however, it's NEVER good to have an unhappy customer.
EDIT: As being a past business owner, one of my greatest fears was being misrepresented by anyone of my SC staff members that did not hold the company values, or was having a bad day and allowing it carry over to work.
To close this out, as one employee here who attacked and criticized me here as having a “pitty party” unless I show photos (which I did) why would I do that?
But now I’m the bad guy for some reason because some little shit part doesn’t work. You can go as fanboy as you want, I really don’t care, I have much better things to do than argue about meaningless things.
If I knew this thread would be so long of people accusing me of lies (unless I prove it with photos - which I did again) I just wouldn’t have even made this post and thrown the stupid Mount in the trash.
1. Who did that? What employee?
2. Same as #1
3. Back to #1 again
Try to be careful in your wording, because you've made some accusations and now its time to back them up.
I'm not sure that the "$10k relationship" part of this is material to why or why not BCM should be standing behind their products. Whether it's a $10 purchase, or a $10,000 one should have no bearing on standing behind one's products. The fact that the CS rep made it a point of contention at all that he couldn't find the OP's purchase history, is really the most disturbing fact of their interaction.
"Faithful in the small things; faithful in the big ones."
I couldn’t have possibly said it better myself. You nailed everything perfectly so well I can’t even add anything to it. However, due to the constant attacks from people here with such venom & vitriol, I’ve decided to let it go, it’s just a $17 part, and tried to be the adult in the room and show BCM kindness and appreciation for their high quality parts I’ve bought from them during the past 15 years.
1. Who did that? What employee?
2. Same as #1
3. Back to #1 again
Try to be careful in your wording, because you've made some accusations and now its time to back them up.
No, not number 1. I think you know who he is.
It’s funny you accuse me of making accusations when you did that to me and said you didn’t believe me unless I posted photos, which I did. Your projecting.
Good point, dully noted...
Than a good question(s) to ask is/are... Should a pass be given, or how much of a pass should be given to a company that has a bad CS representative? Is this CS representative a bad apple or just having a bad day? Is this CS representative actions in line with BCM company values? I understand that's not Cane55's problem, however, it's NEVER good to have an unhappy customer.
EDIT: As being a past business owner, one of my greatest fears was being misrepresented by anyone of my SC staff members that did not hold the company values, or was having a bad day and allowing it carry over to work. Very fair points.
I couldn’t have possibly said it better myself. You nailed everything perfectly so well I can’t even add anything to it. However, due to the constant attacks from people here with such venom & vitriol, I’ve decided to let it go, it’s just a $17 part, and tried to be the adult in the room and show BCM kindness and appreciation for their high quality parts I’ve bought from them during the past 15 years.
No, not number 1. I think you know who he is.
It’s funny you accuse me of making accusations when you did that to me and said you didn’t believe me unless I posted photos, which I did. Your projecting. I think you may be mistaking concern over a fair assessment for "venom and vitriol." @Stickman is not a BCM employee, but a photographer who has done some work for BCM, amongst many other firearms manufacturers. Him asking you to provide some evidence to back up your complaint, shouldn't be interpreted as an attack, but rather comes from years of dealing with sometimes incompetent or irrational end users. Which is also why CS reps can sometimes come off as being intractable.
I think the mistake here is in confusing caution and circumspection for accusation. Stickman just wants to make sure the facts are flushed out in a fair manner before a reputable company's reputation is dragged through the mud. I hope that makes sense.
Very fair points.
I think you may be mistaking concern over a fair assessment for "venom and vitriol." @Stickman is not a BCM employee, but a photographer who has done some work for BCM, amongst many other firearms manufacturers. Him asking you to provide some evidence to back up your complaint, shouldn't be interpreted as an attack, but rather comes from years of dealing with sometimes incompetent or irrational end users. Which is also why CS reps can sometimes come off as being intractable.
I think the mistake here is in confusing caution and circumspection for accusation. Stickman just wants to make sure the facts are flushed out in a fair manner before a reputable company's reputation is dragged through the mud. I hope that makes sense.
Like when Stickman said he didn’t believe anything I said unless I produced photographs? And when he said I was only doing it because I was having a “pitty party?”
Let me get this straight. Correct me if I’m wrong but…
You got upset because BCM didn’t reply to you on your time schedule over a $17 part? So you kept sending emails?
You think they’re lying and are supposedly accusing you of lying because they initially couldn’t find you in their system?
That doesn’t sound like a good way to get off on the right foot. Again, over a $17 part…
It seems like you could be the one projecting and you’re playing the victim.
Like when Stickman said he didn’t believe anything I said unless I produced photographs? And when he said I was only doing it because I was having a “pitty party?”
I'm going to quote exactly what he said:
"Post up the pictures please so we can see the issue. Otherwise, its just reads like you are bashing them and having a pity party for yourself. I am NOT saying that is what you are doing, but it seems like most of the time when there are posts like this there is a secondary component missing from the total issue at hand.
Thanks, and I await the images."
From my reading, it seems that he's being pretty nice, and just asking you to provide the pics because, "Otherwise, its just reads like you are bashing them and having a pity party for yourself." He also says, "I am NOT saying that is what you are doing."
6) By taking your course of action, you have denied yourself the possibility that your conclusions of said product were correct from the beginning all along. More importantly, all the effort you put in so far will come to naught and the members of this forum will miss out on valuable info that would be provided whether the product is defective or not.
Please reconsider your present course of action and allow BCM to confirm your suspicions.
I agree with this. After all that has happened here, I'm really curious to see what BCM's evaluation finds. More importantly, I'm curious to see how they reply.
Like when Stickman said he didn’t believe anything I said unless I produced photographs? And when he said I was only doing it because I was having a “pitty party?”
Ok, now you've officially gone round the bend. I believe if I were BCM I would, at this point, fire you as a customer. Something tells me that given the sheer amount of drama you have exhibited in this thread (on top of making some patently false accusations) that there is quite a bit more to this story then you are letting on. Whatever. I was in your corner at one point but now you've lost me. Going to go guy some BCM stuff now......
Ok, now you've officially gone round the bend. I believe if I were BCM I would, at this point, fire you as a customer. Something tells me that given the sheer amount of drama you have exhibited in this thread (on top of making some patently false accusations) that there is quite a bit more to this story then you are letting on. Whatever. I was in your corner at one point but now you've lost me. Going to go guy some BCM stuff now......
What false “accusations” have I made? And how is Stickman saying I’m just “having a pitty party for myself” being nice and wanting to find out what’s going on? I already apologized to BCM and admitted I was wrong in an earlier post and you keep on dumping on me and ganging up on me. I also personally emailed
BCM too apologizing and asked the moderators to erase this thread. BCM makes top tier AR parts and components and couldn’t recommend them more to people, as I thought I made clear in my earlier post #47. I have been a huge BCM fan for 15 years and always will.
What false “accusations” have I made? And how is Stickman saying I’m just “having a pitty party for myself” being nice and wanting to find out what’s going on? I already apologized to BCM and admitted I was wrong in an earlier post and you keep on dumping on me and ganging up on me. I also personally emailed
BCM too apologizing and asked the moderators to erase this thread. BCM makes top tier AR parts and components and couldn’t recommend them more to people, as I thought I made clear in my earlier post #47. I have been a huge BCM fan for 15 years and always will.
Stick is not an employee of BCM. He has stated that. He asked for pictures to try and help you trouble shoot your problem. He even stated that in the post where he asked for pictures. He may have been actually able to help you since he knows the guys at BCM. BCM even offered to help you (albeit a little late to the party) and you decided to not take them up on the offer because you already knew the outcome. So people have offered to help. BCM has offered to help. But you've shut them all down. At this point the only conclusion I can reach is that you don't really want your problem solved, you just want someplace to go to complain. Hell, I even said it was a mistake on BCMs part to not just send you out a replacement part. You essentially started out this thread with a lot of people nodding their heads in agreement and instead of taking the win you posted your way into a loss.
Stick is not an employee of BCM. He has stated that. He asked for pictures to try and help you trouble shoot your problem. He even stated that in the post where he asked for pictures. He may have been actually able to help you since he knows the guys at BCM. BCM even offered to help you (albeit a little late to the party) and you decided to not take them up on the offer because you already knew the outcome. So people have offered to help. BCM has offered to help. But you've shut them all down. At this point the only conclusion I can reach is that you don't really want your problem solved, you just want someplace to go to complain. Hell, I even said it was a mistake on BCMs part to not just send you out a replacement part. You essentially started out this thread with a lot of people nodding their heads in agreement and instead of taking the win you posted your way into a loss.
AGAIN, refer to my post #47. I couldn’t have complimented BCM more or apologized more once I understood everything that was going on. BCM has great customer service and makes the best stuff in the business. Read post #47 again.
AGAIN, refer to my post #47. I couldn’t have complimented BCM more or apologized more once I understood everything that was going on. BCM has great customer service and makes the best stuff in the business. Read post #47 again.
Oh, I saw it. You left out a few people in that apology (and in this forum) who you also trashed along the way.
Oh, I saw it. You left out a few people in that apology (and in this forum) who you also trashed along the way.
I didn’t trash anyone, I was the only one who got trashed. The only entity I owe an apology is to BCM, which I did in spades. The rest of the trashing was against me. Learn how to read.
SeriousStudent
01-17-24, 15:12
What false “accusations” have I made? And how is Stickman saying I’m just “having a pitty party for myself” being nice and wanting to find out what’s going on? I already apologized to BCM and admitted I was wrong in an earlier post and you keep on dumping on me and ganging up on me. I also personally emailed
BCM too apologizing and asked the moderators to erase this thread. BCM makes top tier AR parts and components and couldn’t recommend them more to people, as I thought I made clear in my earlier post #47. I have been a huge BCM fan for 15 years and always will.
What Moderator did you ask? I have been following this thread closely, and have not received any emails regarding contacts/requests from you.
You took it upon yourself to create the thread over a $17 part. You've been a member here for 10 years. You ain't new. You want to throw that laundry out to air in public, expect to see questions. Don't get pissed when people ask them, either.
Stickman was really polite, and tried to be helpful. This is exactly why we have so few SME's, Industry Professionals, Staff and Moderators left.
SeriousStudent
01-17-24, 15:12
I didn’t trash anyone, I was the only one who got trashed. The only entity I owe an apology is to BCM, which I did in spades. The rest of the trashing was against me. Learn how to read.
You're done. Enjoy the vacation.
SeriousStudent
01-17-24, 15:17
Cane55 - here's a note that you should read and heed. When you come back from your winter vacation, remember this: You did not get banned for criticizing BCM, or opening this thread, or changing/majorlty editing your posts in mid-stream.
You got a temp ban because you got snotty with people and resort to name-calling and personal attacks.
Think about that if you return.
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