View Full Version : Outstanding video about setting up a Carbine
Sorry if this is reposted. Just watched this great video with some really experienced vets about setting up your carbine and how and why they run theirs. The Irish dude has quite the resume. Good stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84KBHdpKB1c
LOL. For 20+ years I've been explaining that carry handle mounted optics and HK see through mounts are no problem IF you have your head up just like these guys are talking about with their red dots on risers but all the new school guys with their T1s flat on the rail told me it doesn't work.
Interesting that they seem to have abandoned VFGs.
no problem IF you have your head up just like these guys are talking about with their red dots on risers but all the new school guys with their T1s flat on the rail told me it doesn't work.
I'm not an "operator", but I'm not an un-trained shooter either. My instinct has always been to be as small of a target as possible. Arms tucked in and head as low as practically possible are just an instinctual thing for me if there's a chance of incoming bullets.
I'll have to click on the video at home for the full story though.
I'm not an "operator", but I'm not an un-trained shooter either. My instinct has always been to be as small of a target as possible. Arms tucked in and head as low as practically possible are just an instinctual thing for me if there's a chance of incoming bullets.
I'll have to click on the video at home for the full story though.
You win gunfights by focusing on hitting the other guy with your bullets, not by avoiding his.
You win gunfights by focusing on hitting the other guy with your bullets, not by avoiding his.
I would say the video is excellent and the "operators" that are in it are very experienced. I learned some very good information.
You win gunfights by focusing on hitting the other guy with your bullets, not by avoiding his.
Cool romance, but you Can't shoot if bullets hit your head.
LOL. For 20+ years I've been explaining that carry handle mounted optics and HK see through mounts are no problem IF you have your head up just like these guys are talking about with their red dots on risers but all the new school guys with their T1s flat on the rail told me it doesn't work.
Interesting that they seem to have abandoned VFGs.
I have noted the mounts seem to be getting taller and taller too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2mZbfZlwrE
Everyone has their own mission and skill level. You need to decide for yourself if you want to keep changing your equipment and training regimen to each new cool guy idea or to adopt new ideas as they make sense to your needs.
The majority of all our usage is for fun with a tinge of SHTF so new equipment is what keeps us happy and engaged and the $$$ drives innovation. This is a good thing. However, my actual duty guns only change slowly because I only have so much time and desire to adapt all my training and tactics to new equipment.
Hot take - Training and measuring progress loses more often than not to shiny new parts.
Dennis.
Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk
By not having a neck, I'm right there at lower third.
titsonritz
01-18-24, 20:08
The classes I’ve taken have been consistent across the board with what these videos are saying, but then some of those classes included Fieldcraft Survival. Bottom line a natural upright shooting position is substantially more comfortable especially when doing it for hours and multiple days.
There is a thread down below in the optics forum I recently bump up on super tall optic mounts. As mentioned I use and am sold on my Unity 2.26” Micro and EoTech mounts and am considering trying out the GBRS 2.91” Lerna.
I'm not an "operator", but I'm not an un-trained shooter either. My instinct has always been to be as small of a target as possible. Arms tucked in and head as low as practically possible are just an instinctual thing for me if there's a chance of incoming bullets.
I'll have to click on the video at home for the full story though.
Sure...BUT...if you are running in the open AND shooting...having your head bent down or over to the side so you can see your optics makes you move slower and with a bit more disorientation.
It's also a really easy thing to work out. Set up a target 25 yards out and run at it while shooting it as many times as possible. You will see immediately what they are talking about and I'm referring to. Nobody needs to be an operator but most of us never do it because 90% of our shooting is slow, deliberate, cut the pie / keep the cover stuff. And when we do run, it's from stage to stage rarely shooting while we run...and in those instances where we do shoot on the run it's usually lateral fire to the side. As a result almost everything most people do at the range has taught them to "get small" just like you are talking about.
Most of this is because more ranges do NOT want guys running and gunning because there is a serious safety consideration if they happen to trip or fall. But if you have to do it, it's a bit different.
I have noted the mounts seem to be getting taller and taller too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2mZbfZlwrE
He really hit on some important things.
If I'm shooting a FAL or a G3, I do need the gun in my shoulder. But If I'm shooting a M4 or a MP5, I really do put it on my collar bone in a high hold just like both guys mention in both videos. The recoil really isn't there so you can shoot strings on the move and keep it tight. His comments about situational awareness and seeing your whole environment are what I was taught as well.
And honestly I've been doing this since 1985 running a Colt 3x optic on a SP1 carbine. I didn't figure out the high hold completely until somebody showed it to me 10 years later and explained all the nuts and bolts of it. But I was about halfway in between and when guys told me they couldn't shoot accurately without a complete cheek weld, I didn't fully understand what they were talking about because it really wasn't hard.
I also think height over bore was a big driver of a lot of that "low on the gun" stuff. If you don't have to calculate offset, your shooting gets a little easier, but I've been doing AR and HK sights with their height over bore for a long time. Eotechs on rails co witness so that wasn't a huge challenge for me, but going lower than that took some doing, especially if I had to move and shoot.
Going higher than standard AR sights was no big deal because I had been shooting optics on carry handles for several years.
I tried to watch this last night, but it was too long. I'll hit it when I'm on the treadmill. I'm too busy to watch long form any other time.
One's physical stature needs to be considered, what DJ runs would be too high for some folks, like me. It has to fit, or no bueno.
Cool romance, but you Can't shoot if bullets hit your head.
well, yeah.... but that doesn't matter where your head is or is not... that can always happen. The ONLY way to mitigate it, personally, is hits on target. So, be comfortable. Whichever way you are.
ViniVidivici
01-19-24, 11:09
Exactly. Whatever helps YOU get good hits on targets fastest is where you should be going with your equipment.
Exactly. Whatever helps YOU get good hits on targets fastest is where you should be going with your equipment.
We have some special olympians here who entertain the idea of a bird gun for home defense. (recent thread) They'd count 9 pellets as nine hits on vital organs if they could. :sarcastic:
I dunno, I'm still running a Larue 660 mount on my T1. Still works for me.
Exactly. Whatever helps YOU get good hits on targets fastest is where you should be going with your equipment.
And I totally agree with what he says about breaking your cheekweld being a bad idea. I've always BEEN taught that, practiced it, and taught it to my rookies/students. Only hits count, peeps.
One's physical stature needs to be considered, what DJ runs would be too high for some folks, like me. It has to fit, or no bueno.
Exactly. Whatever helps YOU get good hits on targets fastest is where you should be going with your equipment.
Bears repeating. Few things are "one size fits all." I also think experience factors in, if you have been doing something effectively for 10 or more years, you aren't gonna shitcan it and restart from zero, you might adopt parts of new methods that can be integrated into how you do things or make small modifications.
Tactics also evolve over the years, back in the late 80s, early 90s everything was all about "dominate the room" and how fast you could get you and your buddies through the door and start shooting bad guys. Sometime about 10 years later it changed to small slices of the pie even if it meant you and your guys stayed on the other side of the door until it was time to check the hard corners. Both strategies have merit and risk.
I have tried to learn a lot of things from a variety of informed people so I will understand options and hopefully choose the best one for any given situation. This applies to weapons and gear.
Also the guys who hunt Bin Ladens for a living generally are not doing personal defense tactics, they by design are far more aggressive / proactive than somebody shooting in defense of their person or home. Taliban hunters and hostage rescue require you to hang your ass out in the wind a little further and that explains much of what they do and why they do it that way.
There are things regular military does that I'll probably never need to know or use. A lot of platoon level tactics really aren't gonna apply to a lone home defender.
Peeked at this video on my phone. Pretty good explanations of stuff, but it mostly applies to Military operations. Great points and discussion, but not one thing they advocated would be something I'd adopt on a home defense gun.
Maybe if civil unrest came about, I'd dust off a suppressor for night defense, but that's it. They did point out that what's good for Special Ops isn't necessarily good for other users.
Well, we always used a deep penetrating wall flood method of stronghold domination.... when we were dynamic. If we were slow and deliberate.... it's more of the taking your time and more slicing, etc..... though we still scoot across that threshhold when we encounter it. But S & D is a different animal... ESP with zero verbal allowed... all hand signals, etc. But great point..... shit's evolving.... even if it's only evolving in aspects and not the aggregate.
good call, Aug.
StainlessSteelRat
01-19-24, 15:23
I dunno, I'm still running a Larue 660 mount on my T1. Still works for me.
Me too. I get what he's saying though. I'm going to have to think about this now, dammit. I haven't been able to shoot nearly enough lately.
Me too. I get what he's saying though. I'm going to have to think about this now, dammit. I haven't been able to shoot nearly enough lately.
If I was starting a new, might make some changes based on more recent thinking on some things, but I'm not HSLD, not shooting enough, etc to justify the time and $ to be making major changes to mounts, etc. I'd rather put the $ into ammo and getting to the range more!
A high mount does not have to equal a chin weld.
Life finds a way…
https://i.imgur.com/cqv4IUN.jpeg
I liked this enough after doing it on a test lower that I did something I never expected to do…. Broke the VC-3 and staking to remove an LMT MWS receiver extension from my MARS-L and replace with a Smoke Composites setup.
A high mount does not have to equal a chin weld.
Life finds a way…
https://i.imgur.com/cqv4IUN.jpeg
I liked this enough after doing it on a test lower that I did something I never expected to do…. Broke the VC-3 and staking to remove an LMT MWS receiver extension from my MARS-L and replace with a Smoke Composites setup.
Nice guns Brother, but I couldn't reach the pedals on those rigs lol.
Me too. I get what he's saying though. I'm going to have to think about this now, dammit. I haven't been able to shoot nearly enough lately.
I'm keeping my T1 and Larue mount as well....I watch GBRS group videos and they make sense for those that do it for a living. However, while at home I was experimenting with raising my head up and it does give you some additional side vision and awareness.
Peeked at this video on my phone. Pretty good explanations of stuff, but it mostly applies to Military operations. Great points and discussion, but not one thing they advocated would be something I'd adopt on a home defense gun.
Maybe if civil unrest came about, I'd dust off a suppressor for night defense, but that's it. They did point out that what's good for Special Ops isn't necessarily good for other users.
Yep a LOT of it is apples to oranges. But I realized there are times when I probably would be shooting on the move and I tried it both ways and found the higher optics / heads up approach works best for me.
But there are other times when we couldn't be more apart. I'm not running night or nods, I've learned I usually won't get the response time to gear up to that level. So unlike seals and delta, I'm almost completely weapon lights if it's happening after dark. I have a few rifles set up with NV scopes, but they aren't my HD rifles. And because we are talking about home defense and not assaulting a position, I can still run 10.3's and MP5s without much worry.
It's just one area where I happened to already be sorta doing it already and it was best for me and the new stuff I was being shown was easily integrated. Since it all comes down to how well a given individual effectively puts rounds on target, your way probably does work best for you. Again...almost nothing is one size fits all.
If I was starting a new, might make some changes based on more recent thinking on some things, but I'm not HSLD, not shooting enough, etc to justify the time and $ to be making major changes to mounts, etc. I'd rather put the $ into ammo and getting to the range more!
This is actually kind of easy. Throw a rifle in your shoulder and walk down a hall with your optics. Can you do it comfortably while still seeing most of the things in front of you 180 from left to right? If yes, then your setup is fine. If not, fine tune until you can. Going from extreme low to extreme high or the other way around is unlikely to improve anything. If your optics co witness standard AR irons, you are probably close to the best middle ground possible. This is 5.56, not 12 ga. 3.5" magnums, it's possible to put just the bottom corner in your shoulder and not have to worry about recoil if you had to.
Yep a LOT of it is apples to oranges. But I realized there are times when I probably would be shooting on the move and I tried it both ways and found the higher optics / heads up approach works best for me.
As far as the snorkel optics go specifically. Their point was that with full gear and helmet it was better. Sounds logical.
But I don't run that stuff as a civilian. The one tower optic gun we have is very weird feeling. I suppose I could become used to it like anything else. But I tried moveing through the house yesterday with a regular lower 1/3 and didn't feel like I had to lower my head when bringing the gun up on target.
To me, the snorkel mounts are an effective thing for mil guys that's the new fad for everyone else. I've just seen so many ridiculous fads come and go in the last 30 years. 3 point slings? Remember that retarded shit?
As far as the snorkel optics go specifically. Their point was that with full gear and helmet it was better. Sounds logical.
But I don't run that stuff as a civilian. The one tower optic gun we have is very weird feeling. I suppose I could become used to it like anything else. But I tried moveing through the house yesterday with a regular lower 1/3 and didn't feel like I had to lower my head when bringing the gun up on target.
To me, the snorkel mounts are an effective thing for mil guys that's the new fad for everyone else. I've just seen so many ridiculous fads come and go in the last 30 years. 3 point slings? Remember that retarded shit?
Absolutely agree, it is all entry team focused and valid in that scenario. I just wish these mil vets weren't training up so many alphabet bureaucrats that view well armed citizens as insurrectionists. Duck walking stumpy guns with snorkel optics is the rage on youtube, I'm too old.
As far as the snorkel optics go specifically. Their point was that with full gear and helmet it was better. Sounds logical.
But I don't run that stuff as a civilian. The one tower optic gun we have is very weird feeling. I suppose I could become used to it like anything else. But I tried moveing through the house yesterday with a regular lower 1/3 and didn't feel like I had to lower my head when bringing the gun up on target.
To me, the snorkel mounts are an effective thing for mil guys that's the new fad for everyone else. I've just seen so many ridiculous fads come and go in the last 30 years. 3 point slings? Remember that retarded shit?
I agree. I’m still in the lower 1/3 camp.
This is actually kind of easy. Throw a rifle in your shoulder and walk down a hall with your optics. Can you do it comfortably while still seeing most of the things in front of you 180 from left to right? If yes, then your setup is fine. If not, fine tune until you can. Going from extreme low to extreme high or the other way around is unlikely to improve anything. If your optics co witness standard AR irons, you are probably close to the best middle ground possible. This is 5.56, not 12 ga. 3.5" magnums, it's possible to put just the bottom corner in your shoulder and not have to worry about recoil if you had to.
no, if you're walking down a hallway without a threat, keep that badboy pointed at baseboard level so you can see over it!
ChattanoogaPhil
01-20-24, 15:35
Had been using an LT661 (lower 1/3) for many years. Tried a Unity... will never go back. In addition to the usual compliments of a more heads-up position, my neck thanks me and wearing glasses is improved with my noggin more vertical.
At first I thought it looked awkwardly tall. Now it looks normal to me, while standard height is an uncomfortable reminder.
https://i.imgur.com/Wn4CvTX.jpg
I agree. I’m still in the lower 1/3 camp.
Shot the Tall RDS again today. It's very strange to me still. It does not, at all, cause me to miss. But I'm in perpetual hesitance trying to reconcile the POI/POA.
But I tried moveing through the house yesterday with a regular lower 1/3 and didn't feel like I had to lower my head when bringing the gun up on target.
Then your setup is perfectly fine.
To me, the snorkel mounts are an effective thing for mil guys that's the new fad for everyone else. I've just seen so many ridiculous fads come and go in the last 30 years. 3 point slings? Remember that retarded shit?
So in some ways they were better than the old carry strap slings, they actually allowed you to transition to a handgun until single points became common. But when the Vicker's sling came out, that would clearly the way. We used to call 3 points "mousetrap" slings.
no, if you're walking down a hallway without a threat, keep that badboy pointed at baseboard level so you can see over it!
It's a evaluation drill to see if you could do the same thing with targets present.
We used to call 3 points "mousetrap" slings.
My brain can barely figger out a two point. :sarcastic: The 3 point thing was like a rubic's cube.
My brain can barely figger out a two point. :sarcastic: The 3 point thing was like a rubic's cube.
Ironically, the worst one was probably the HK one. It was worthless on a 91/93 G3/33 because the sling clip was much to far forward on the hand guard. Notions of creating a suspender sling so you can backpack the rifle while climbing were laughable.
And while it sorta worked on the MP5, I can count the number of times I've opened my thumb up on that annoying little piece of spring steel when doing reloads. The blackhawk version of the 3 point sling for the MP5 was an improvement, but ultimately the forward connection of a 3 point sling was in the worst possible place for operating the charging handle.
I wasn't crazy about how low single point slings hung an HK, but as soon as they came out almost everyone went to them just to have unrestricted access to the charging handle on MP5s.
Ironically, the worst one was probably the HK one. It was worthless on a 91/93 G3/33 because the sling clip was much to far forward on the hand guard. Notions of creating a suspender sling so you can backpack the rifle while climbing were laughable.
And while it sorta worked on the MP5, I can count the number of times I've opened my thumb up on that annoying little piece of spring steel when doing reloads. The blackhawk version of the 3 point sling for the MP5 was an improvement, but ultimately the forward connection of a 3 point sling was in the worst possible place for operating the charging handle.
I wasn't crazy about how low single point slings hung an HK, but as soon as they came out almost everyone went to them just to have unrestricted access to the charging handle on MP5s.
The MP5 was "neat"... for about 5 minutes. And *I* got stuck with an SD first out.... which SUCKED. I grabbed a navy model as soon as one came open and dumped that SD. And yeah, the slings were retarded.
I was a bit skeptical about the taller mounts at first but picked up a used Scalarworks 1.93 to find out first hand. I am now a convert as the proof is on the timer. For whatever it is worth, I’m about a tenth quicker from low ready. I guess me having to scooch my neck down more for lower 1/3 is a tenth.
I think the 2.26 mounts look goofy but if I got the chance to pick one up cheaply I might give it a try although I feel like it might be a bit too far for me personally. For anyone that has an Aimpoint Duty RDS, putting a lower 1/3 mount on it will get you in the ballpark of 1.93. Cheap way to find out if you like that height as most folks have at least one somewhere on a gun or laying around.
The MP5 was "neat"... for about 5 minutes. And *I* got stuck with an SD first out.... which SUCKED. I grabbed a navy model as soon as one came open and dumped that SD. And yeah, the slings were retarded.
The SD was a front heavy beast that was shooting .380 for all intents and purposes. Really only was practical for "special jobs" folks who need to shoot people with the most suppression possible. For any regular use, the MP5A2 with an add on suppressor did 80% of the same with half the weight and allowed for the use of full power 147 gr ammo, which is probably as good as it gets for a SMG platform.
The MP5 still does many things well, the only thing it really can't do (and it's an important one) is take on 5.56 (or similar) chambered carbines, especially at stand off distances. It's still a "slightly" lighter, smaller package capable of better suppression that is ideal for close confines but that advantage is being minimized more and more every day by 10.3" barrel carbines and suppressors nobody would have dreamed of a mere 20 years ago.
Colt scopes, variable power scopes & Armson OEG sights on carry handles. ����
Keith
I was a bit skeptical about the taller mounts at first but picked up a used Scalarworks 1.93 to find out first hand. I am now a convert as the proof is on the timer. For whatever it is worth, I’m about a tenth quicker from low ready. I guess me having to scooch my neck down more for lower 1/3 is a tenth.
I think the 2.26 mounts look goofy but if I got the chance to pick one up cheaply I might give it a try although I feel like it might be a bit too far for me personally. For anyone that has an Aimpoint Duty RDS, putting a lower 1/3 mount on it will get you in the ballpark of 1.93. Cheap way to find out if you like that height as most folks have at least one somewhere on a gun or laying around.
For those interested in the Aimpoint Duty RDS, this is a good deal.
https://www.admmfg.com/duty-rds-pkg
That’s decent. They really are good bang for the buck and my standard Chinesium replacement red dot. Been working through my guns slowly.
For those interested in the Aimpoint Duty RDS, this is a good deal.
https://www.admmfg.com/duty-rds-pkg
I've really been happy with my Romeo 5. I also run an Aimpoint PRO on one of my rifles, too.
Colt scopes, variable power scopes & Armson OEG sights on carry handles. ����
Keith
I could see that reborn as the next AR fad. M4/AR set ups and configurations are WORSE than women's fashion.
I could see that reborn as the next AR fad. M4/AR set ups and configurations are WORSE than women's fashion.
Reborn? I still have a 6520 with a Colt 3X on it. It's a handy, dandy lightweight stick.
That’s decent. They really are good bang for the buck and my standard Chinesium replacement red dot. Been working through my guns slowly.
They are pretty good. I got two Duty RDSs and I am happy with them.
Between the T2s and the Duty RDSs, I think I’m good.
I've really been happy with my Romeo 5. I also run an Aimpoint PRO on one of my rifles, too.
I ran Romeo 5s on a couple of range rifles for a while and I have no complaints. They are good dots. But eventually I replaced them with Aimpoints.
CrowCommand
01-22-24, 18:19
I ran Romeo 5s on a couple of range rifles for a while and I have no complaints. They are good dots. But eventually I replaced them with Aimpoints.
My man, I refuse to buy into the Sig everything BS and the cholosun crap….maybe I’m a boomer.
Aimpoint master race.
My man, I refuse to buy into the Sig everything BS and the cholosun crap….maybe I’m a boomer.
Aimpoint master race.
Yes Sir. Aimpoint is the way to go.
Aimpoint makes it too hard to be loyal. Their prices make buying a Romeo 5 a no brainer.
I'd love to go all Aimpoint, but the numbers don't work. I can't rationally justify 400-600 more dollars.
Aimpoint makes it too hard to be loyal. Their prices make buying a Romeo 5 a no brainer.
I'd love to go all Aimpoint, but the numbers don't work. I can't rationally justify 400-600 more dollars.
I have had zero issues with my R5, it was an easy zero, the zero hasn't budged, and I love the shake awake feature. I am stickin wiF it!
I have had zero issues with my R5, it was an easy zero, the zero hasn't budged, and I love the shake awake feature. I am stickin wiF it!
I'm running one too. It's on a 10.5 that I don't shoot as much, but they're solid. Pappabear has a handful of them on some ARs.
I'm running one too. It's on a 10.5 that I don't shoot as much, but they're solid. Pappabear has a handful of them on some ARs.
Thinking of doing up an LVPO Ar setup now. So... down THAT rabbithole I go.
Thinking of doing up an LVPO Ar setup now. So... down THAT rabbithole I go.
I'm not a big LPVO guy, but the $240 sale on the Sig 1-6 caught my eye. I forget what email it way.. Palmetto or Primary.
And for years people have derided the "chin weld" of an RMR on an ACOG...
And for years people have derided the "chin weld" of an RMR on an ACOG...
I think Pappabear was just saying that last weekend. I personally wouldn't do it because I hate the RMR with a passion and it makes the gun even that much taller.
I love Magpul L plates, but on any optic AR I don't run them because every little extra bit of length on the top or bottom becomes unwieldy when a 30 round clip is in the gun.
Reborn? I still have a 6520 with a Colt 3X on it. It's a handy, dandy lightweight stick.
Which is cool! You're being avante garde and ironic. I mean a mass sheep sweep into the fad like we've seen so many times over the years.
I think Pappabear was just saying that last weekend. I personally wouldn't do it because I hate the RMR with a passion and it makes the gun even that much taller.
I love Magpul L plates, but on any optic AR I don't run them because every little extra bit of length on the top or bottom becomes unwieldy when a 30 round clip is in the gun.
Tbh I only have one set up that way. It's on a serious use rifle, as are Comp M4s on the other 2. But definitely not the ones I shoot most (zeroed for specific ammo, and a Holosun red dot is good enough for practice).
Look how high this guy keeps his Eotech.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/dTHE1f2ZTOE
Tbh I only have one set up that way. It's on a serious use rifle, as are Comp M4s on the other 2. But definitely not the ones I shoot most (zeroed for specific ammo, and a Holosun red dot is good enough for practice).
For sure. It's completely personal preference. Tall ARs start to bug me. I'd love to just run 20 round mags to for defense, but I'm tortured by the idea of needing the full capacity.
titsonritz
01-30-24, 13:59
Look how high this guy keeps his Eotech.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/dTHE1f2ZTOE
That is the GBRS Lerna mount he’s using.
For sure. It's completely personal preference. Tall ARs start to bug me. I'd love to just run 20 round mags to for defense, but I'm tortured by the idea of needing the full capacity.
I've been pretty comfortable with 20, but the times they are a changing. So I dunno anymore, 28 might be mo betta.
Hammer_Man
01-30-24, 19:26
For those of you running taller (1.93” to 2.26”) mounts, do you notice any additional neck strain while down in the prone?
For those of you running taller (1.93” to 2.26”) mounts, do you notice any additional neck strain while down in the prone?
30 rd mag vs 20 round mag is gonna prone you higher than the slightly more than 1/4" difference in mount. But that is probably where you are gonna use that see through feature for the mount if you have a clear view of your iron sights. When I'm prone I often have to do the "tilt" but again that is usually due to the magazine.
titsonritz
01-30-24, 23:37
For those of you running taller (1.93” to 2.26”) mounts, do you notice any additional neck strain while down in the prone?
I think they are actually beneficial if body armor or a chest rig. Proned out slick with a 20 round mag, not so much.
For those of you running taller (1.93” to 2.26”) mounts, do you notice any additional neck strain while down in the prone?
Probably depends on the type of prone. Artificial support, Bi pod, just off your elbows, etc. Also on how long you're proned out. With a snorkel RDS, it's usually not an extended amount of time in that position since it's not a long range shooting set up.
My buddy's guns have cheeck risers set lower than I would so I get crazy neck strain from "craning" on extended sessions. But on the snorkel RDS, it just feels weird for a few minutes.
For those of you running taller (1.93” to 2.26”) mounts, do you notice any additional neck strain while down in the prone?
Only with magnified optics, oddly enough. The tallest RDS I've personally run is an XPS on 5/8" riser (around 2.1" height) and a Razor 1-6 in a 2.04" Geissele. I actually found proning out in kit easier with a taller RDS, but having to maintain positioning within a more strict eye box was noticeably more straining.
Probably depends on the type of prone. Artificial support, Bi pod, just off your elbows, etc. Also on how long you're proned out. With a snorkel RDS, it's usually not an extended amount of time in that position since it's not a long range shooting set up.
My buddy's guns have cheeck risers set lower than I would so I get crazy neck strain from "craning" on extended sessions. But on the snorkel RDS, it just feels weird for a few minutes.
yep... whoever made it a rule that, when prone, the rifle cannot be sideways and under stuff??
ViniVidivici
01-31-24, 09:14
Yeah, sometimes it HAS to be!
Yeah, sometimes it HAS to be!
LOL yup... if my ass is going prone, I aint playin around... i'm getting LOW, buddy.
yep... whoever made it a rule that, when prone, the rifle cannot be sideways and under stuff??
For my brain, the tall mounts drive me crazy calculating hold over when vertical/upright. Shooting roll over prone would make my head explode.
Prone has several faces, there is prone for overwatch which has to be comfortable for long duration, and prone right now as in not being shot or blown to bits. And prone just for stability for accuracy at range which might only need to be temporary.
The famed Finnish sniper Himo Syak (spelling) went with irons after being shot in the face by a Russian who he then hunted down and killed. He amassed a staggering number of kills by keeping low. He hunted the woodlands not structures.
titsonritz
01-31-24, 16:56
The famed Finnish sniper Himo Syak (spelling) went with irons after being shot in the face by a Russian who he then hunted down and killed. He amassed a staggering number of kills by keeping low. He hunted the woodlands not structures.
Simo Häyhä a.k.a The “White Death” reportedly over 500 kills.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fvCrE5NCsts
For my brain, the tall mounts drive me crazy calculating hold over when vertical/upright. Shooting roll over prone would make my head explode.
I remember my first time tying to shoot UNDER a rail road tie 6 inches off the ground with a MP5 with 30 round mag and an aimpoint comp whatever. I was holding it out in front of me almost completely level with the ground, I couldn't stabilize it on anything. I had it sorta resting in my non shooting hand which was extended almost all the way out. My optics were completely at 9 o'clock and I had to make sure brass was clearing the tie I was shooting under. And of course the targets were person height torso and head shots so I had to angle the muzzle up as much as possible but still try and be able to see through my RDS.
It really sucked.
titsonritz
01-31-24, 18:10
It really sucked.
Now imagine that fcvker shooting back at you.
Simo Häyhä a.k.a The “White Death” reportedly over 500 kills.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fvCrE5NCsts
Thank you for the correct spelling.
CrowCommand
01-31-24, 19:34
Now imagine that fcvker shooting back at you.
Yaassss king, this is how we train.
CrowCommand
01-31-24, 19:40
I just added an Arisaka finger stop at the end of my 11.5 rig’s QRF, after running multiple VTAC barricade drills. Kept putting pressure on the barrel, deflecting my shots. It was fine higher up on the barrier, I would index on my light bezel, but down low or at weird angles, the bottom of the QRF wasn’t enough. Have to run it live to verify, but I think it will help
Now imagine that fcvker shooting back at you.
I know. But the only time we got to do a 2 way range was sims or airsoft and not quite the same.
DefenderAO
02-10-24, 22:11
As far as the snorkel optics go specifically. Their point was that with full gear and helmet it was better. Sounds logical.
But I don't run that stuff as a civilian. The one tower optic gun we have is very weird feeling. I suppose I could become used to it like anything else. But I tried moveing through the house yesterday with a regular lower 1/3 and didn't feel like I had to lower my head when bringing the gun up on target.
To me, the snorkel mounts are an effective thing for mil guys that's the new fad for everyone else. I've just seen so many ridiculous fads come and go in the last 30 years. 3 point slings? Remember that retarded shit?
71380
DefenderAO
02-10-24, 22:27
For my brain, the tall mounts drive me crazy calculating hold over when vertical/upright. Shooting roll over prone would make my head explode.
Absolute co-witness (1.42) - 2.63
Lower 1/3 (1.57") - 2.78
1.93" - 3.14
Unity FAST (2.26") - 3.47
KAC Skyscraper / Overbore Systems (2.33") - 3.54
Raidworx RSR (2.76") - 3.97
GBRS Hydra (2.91") - 4.12
I meant my shots are delayed while I try to calculate where to place the dot for an exact hit.
DefenderAO
02-11-24, 10:40
I meant my shots are delayed while I try to calculate where to place the dot for an exact hit.
I suspect it's similar to any height - training, like you've done with the heights and zeroes you've come to know, is key. I like Unity mounts on an SBR with a 75y zero. The trajectory has a similar look to a 100y zero from a 16" bbl. And knowing my height over bore is 3.47" makes 5-7 yard shots fast.
But why retrain when the heights and zeros you know and love are satisfactory? Again, much depends on the shooters physical stature, what's comfortable for some might just possibly be awkward for others.
DefenderAO
02-11-24, 10:48
But why retrain when the heights and zeros you know and love are satisfactory?
I ran a Larue LT660 and loved it. Tried Unity and realized my situational awareness and comfort were elevated significantly. Ran the ballistics calculator for the bbl length, ammo type, and zero...then trained.
You might find what you love changes.
I ran a Larue LT660 and loved it. Tried Unity and realized my situational awareness and comfort were elevated significantly. Ran the ballistics calculator for the bbl length, ammo type, and zero...then trained.
You might find what you love changes.
Then happily it works for you. My "situational awareness" and comfort are at lower third, that's not going to change for me unless I were to suddenly and dramatically change physically. This seems to be a hard concept for many to grasp. I'm sure I could train myself to adapt to nearly anything, but I'm not leaving my comfort zone for yours. This is all just conversational, nothing derogatory meant.
DefenderAO
02-11-24, 11:52
Then happily it works for you. My "situational awareness" and comfort are at lower third, that's not going to change for me unless I were to suddenly and dramatically change physically. This seems to be a hard concept for many to grasp. I'm sure I could train myself to adapt to nearly anything, but I'm not leaving my comfort zone for yours. This is all just conversational, nothing derogatory meant.
All good. I didn't think there would be something better until I tried it. Sold all my LT660s. I even found the 1.93" Scalarworks weren't tall enough. Have NODs for passive shooting options doesn't hurt, and the flip-to-center magnifier mount option is fantastic.
Maybe not for everyone, but it definitely isn't just a fad either. These concepts have been around for a long time.
If you shoulder your weapon and have to adjust your head down to see through the center of your optic then the taller mounts have much merit. Nods also have requirements that I'm not aware of. So needs drive motives, and I'm glad your setup is smooth and easy for you. Keep ringing that steel.
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