Finger/hand stop on ar pistol forend

[triggerjerk]

I have mentioned my recent 7in pistol build in another thread. It has no brace. I have shot it SAS style (my interpretation from 1 youtube vid.....) pushing forward against the single point sling. It was fun and promises more fun.

Here's the catch:

I want to keep it easy, no brainer legal. It had a BCM KAG on the fore end as gifted. Legal for pistol or not, I do not like it. I removed it and installed a 1in long machine screw protruding down out of the mlok fore end. Secured with 4 nuts stacked along the length of the screw and covered them with a piece of rubber fuel line. I love it. Another shooter has suggested it illegal unless I do SBR paperwork. Anyone care to offer their educated opinion before I remove it? Not interested in a morality of gun law discussion (or about what a pussy I am for no brace on the build. I just want to know if a 1 inch long by 3/4 inch diameter protrusion from the fore end makes my gun an sbr or not. Thanks in advance...

[DoubleW]

Well, I guess it all boils down to whether or not it’s a handstop or a vertical grip. You view it as a handstop, someone else may not. The only absolute way around this is to purchase something specifically manufactured to not be a vertical grip. If you want something smaller and more minimal, Arisaka makes a splendid handstop that sounds a lot like what you have made. There’s no black and white definition of what’s a vert grip vs what’s a handstop. They’re manufactured one way or another. What you have done is leave yourself completely open to interpretation, which usually isn’t a good place to be.

https://arisakadefense.com/finger-stop-m-lok/

[SeriousStudent]

I would think if you take a look at a CZ Scorpion EVO and mimic that, you should be okay. That is a hand stop, and not a forward pistol grip.

Repeat after me: "Hand stop".

Have said that, for the love of Harambe, please do not send a letter to the BATFE asking for an opinion letter.

[SeriousStudent]

Well, I guess it all boils down to whether or not it’s a handstop or a vertical grip. You view it as a handstop, someone else may not. The only absolute way around this is to purchase something specifically manufactured to not be a vertical grip. If you want something smaller and more minimal, Arisaka makes a splendid handstop that sounds a lot like what you have made. There’s no black and whit definition of what’s a vert grip vs what’s a handstop. They’re manufactured one way or another. What you have done is leave yourself completely open to interpretation, which usually isn’t a good place to be.

https://arisakadefense.com/finger-stop-m-lok/

You are literally living in my head rent free. :)

Arisaka makes great stuff, I have their gear on several firearms.

[CrowCommand]

Yes, I believe a VG on a rig less than 26” makes it an AOW, not an SBR.

Makes a lot of sense, doesn’t it?

[triggerjerk]

Looks like mine is .3 in shorter than the Arisaka, but .125 wider! Didn't figure there'd be an easy answer.....

[triggerjerk]

Oh, just out of curiosity, is there a brief description of legalities involved with owning an AOW?

[DoubleW]

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/what-does-“any-other-weapon-mean

[DoubleW]

Oh, just out of curiosity, is there a brief description of legalities involved with owning an AOW?
Transferring an AOW on a F4 is $5 tax stamp. Manufacturing one on a F1 is a $200 tax stamp. I believe your above item is already disqualified by having a rifled barrel and being semiautomatic.

[DoubleW]

Yes, I believe a VG on a rig less than 26” makes it an AOW, not an SBR.

Makes a lot of sense, doesn’t it?

It makes it a short barreled rifle. Not an AOW. If he wants a VFG, needs OAL over 26” or to SBR.

[Defaultmp3]

Transferring an AOW on a F4 is $5 tax stamp. Manufacturing one on a F1 is a $200 tax stamp. I believe your above item is already disqualified by having a rifled barrel and being semiautomatic.


It makes it a short barreled rifle. Not an AOW. If he wants a VFG, needs OAL over 26” or to SBR.I don't think so, I'm pretty sure it would make it an AOW, at least according to the ATF's current interpretation.

Am I required to register my pistol if I want to put a vertical fore grip on it?
The firearm must be registered because such a firearm constitutes “any other weapon” (AOW) as defined in the National Firearms Act (NFA) at 26 U.S.C. § 5845(e).

To lawfully add a vertical fore grip to a handgun, a person must submit an ATF Form 1, Application to Make and Register a Firearm along with a fingerprint card bearing the applicant’s fingerprints, a photograph, and $200 making tax. An applicant’s ATF Form 1 will be approved if the applicant is not prohibited from possessing a firearm under federal, state, or local law, and the applicant’s possession of AOW is not prohibited in the applicant’s state of residence. An applicant may only add a vertical fore grip to the handgun designated on his/her Form 1 only after the applicant’s Form 1 is approved by ATF.

Source: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/am-i-required-register-my-pistol-if-i-want-put-vertical-fore-grip-it

Also see: https://www.atf.gov/file/97256/download

I believe the lack of a stock is what makes it impossible to be an SBR, as the brace currently is still legally considered something that precludes you from shouldering the weapon.

[DoubleW]

I don't think so, I'm pretty sure it would make it an AOW, at least according to the ATF's current interpretation.

Am I required to register my pistol if I want to put a vertical fore grip on it?
The firearm must be registered because such a firearm constitutes “any other weapon” (AOW) as defined in the National Firearms Act (NFA) at 26 U.S.C. § 5845(e).

To lawfully add a vertical fore grip to a handgun, a person must submit an ATF Form 1, Application to Make and Register a Firearm along with a fingerprint card bearing the applicant’s fingerprints, a photograph, and $200 making tax. An applicant’s ATF Form 1 will be approved if the applicant is not prohibited from possessing a firearm under federal, state, or local law, and the applicant’s possession of AOW is not prohibited in the applicant’s state of residence. An applicant may only add a vertical fore grip to the handgun designated on his/her Form 1 only after the applicant’s Form 1 is approved by ATF.

Source: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/am-i-required-register-my-pistol-if-i-want-put-vertical-fore-grip-it

Also see: https://www.atf.gov/file/97256/download

I believe the lack of a stock is what makes it impossible to be an SBR, as the brace currently is still legally considered something that precludes you from shouldering the weapon.

They have contradicted themselves yet again. Regardless, it’s still an NFA violation and it’s still a $200 tax stamp so the OP may as well SBR if they’re going to do that. An AOW in this case would be pointless.

[Dutch110]

Another one for consideration (the Arisaka is great as others have mentioned as well.)

https://emissarydevelopment.com/product/handbrake-mini-m-lok/

[titsonritz]

Another one for consideration (the Arisaka is great as others have mentioned as well.)

https://emissarydevelopment.com/product/handbrake-mini-m-lok/

https://railscales.us/karve-p-hand-stop/

[triggerjerk]

Crazy stuff. My nut/screw/fuel line attachment might serve as a vertical foregrip for a coon or possum, but it only protrudes a hair more than old man skinny finger width. Maybe I'll just take it off (or patent!) and grip the fore end.... I'm against the magwell, anyway....