View Full Version : Parent found guilty for sons murders
Im sure you all remember that event. This is an important case because Jennifer Crumbley, 45, is the first parent in the United States to face charges in a school shooting committed by their child. She and father are garbage humans and parents to be sure. Guilty of manslaughter?
Jury finds Jennifer Crumbley guilty of involuntary manslaughter in son's school shooting
Ethan Crumbley killed four students at his high school in November 2021.
A jury has found Jennifer Crumbley, the mother of Michigan school shooter Ethan Crumbley, guilty of involuntary manslaughter in connection with the shooting deaths of four students at Oxford High School in November 2021.
Crumbley was found guilty of four counts of involuntary manslaughter in connection with the shooting, one for each victim: Madisyn Baldwin, 17; Tate Myre, 16; Justin Shilling, 17; and Hana St. Juliana, 14.
The jury deliberated for roughly 11 hours, beginning on Monday morning. Sentencing is scheduled for April 9.
Cont:
https://abcnews.go.com/US/jury-reaches-verdict-jennifer-crumbley-manslaughter-trial/story?id=106924349
Sets up some interesting legal precedent moving forward.
I am curious if Mexico will copy some of the prosecution's talking points when they go after American firearm manufacturers.
I agree that the parents are partially to blame, but precedent is pretty dangerous. I bet it doesn't stand up to appeal, but what do I know?
Averageman
02-06-24, 16:45
Well the Young Man was 15, I'm guessing he had some mental issues and didn't understand shooting people was a bad thing?
Nahhh, the Parents have some reasonable amount of responcability, but that kid was old enough to know better, Mom shouldn't be the only responcible party here.
Just from personal experiance I am almost willing to bet the school was aware he had problems, but they wanted to "Mainstream" him in with the rest of the kids.
Sometimes, some folks shouldn't be mainstreamed.
I don't know how you can convict someone of a crime that was committed by somebody else.
I don't know how you can convict someone of a crime that was committed by somebody else.
Yup. Bartenders can be liable if they give someone too much booze, knowing they are impaired, and then they kill someone while driving impaired.
Physicians have been liable for ordering too much anesthesia or sedation. The list goes on.
There's a lot of information here we don't know. Does the kid have a history of mental health issues? Was he intellectually his age or developmentally delayed? Did the parents say things at home to encourage him?
I don't know the case, I find this pretty extraordinary so I do want to read up about it. But right now I'm not going to get my rage up until I know more.
When I heard she bought him the gun, I had a feeling she was toast.
I don't know how you can convict someone of a crime that was committed by somebody else.
You can. There have been those involved with felonies that didn't pull the trigger and get convicted. That usually takes you being involved like a driver in a robbery.
In my state (Alaska) there is no minimum age in statute that a child can possess a firearm with parent's permission. You can possess a firearm without parent's permission at 16 years old. If I said, yes you can carry that gun to school (at 15), I can see where I could be held responsible. (agreeing to a crime). If that firearm is legally in my home and my 15 y.o. has access to the firearm, I shouldn't be held legally responsible for it's misuse. Otherwise I'm also responsible if they use my car, bulldozer, chainsaw or hammer to kill someone because they figured out access and use of those items.
This is a very dangerous road to travel. Freedom is messy, and it should stay that way.
When you examine the totality of the circumstances, before, during and after the shooting, they basically got her convicted on depraved indifference. She enabled him and then DGAF about what happened after that.
FromMyColdDeadHand
02-06-24, 19:52
It will be overturned on appeal, especially after this gets used against some liberal snowflake parents. Conspiracy type charge, but if handing out machine guns to monkeys is the new standard, lots of people going to jail.
This mom gets convicted, and we don’t actually go after people that actual kill and attack people. But if it goes after gun owners, it’s all open season. We’ll get our 2A rights, and DAs will take away your freedom if you actually use it.
titsonritz
02-06-24, 20:24
I remember thinking at the time if anyone deserved it these assholes did.
Seems like they really failed to be parents. There were so many red flags. Everyone, including the school district ignored them all.
Then Brandon is guilty for Hunter's actions. Lock them both up.
So, if a scum gang banger kills your spouse, can you get their shit head parents jailed for being shitty parents and enabling them?
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FromMyColdDeadHand
02-06-24, 23:13
So, if a scum gang banger kills your spouse, can you get their shit head parents jailed for being shitty parents and enabling them?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Nope that was racisms fault, so that means you are to blame.
So a few things...
School officials testified that the parents chose not to take their son home despite the school telling them to get him immediate help, and offering them facilities that provided same-day mental health care services.
Not to give the parents a pass, but the last thing I'd do is trust a school to be involved in my kids mental health.
Ethan Crumbley's parents purchased him the gun he used in the shooting as a gift and had taken him to the shooting range before the attack. Prosecutors argued that the parents did not secure the gun or limit their son's access to it.
If I grew up in the last 20 years my father would be doing LIFE. I had my own firearms and ammo in my room, in my gun cabinet since the 4th grade.
Jennifer Crumbley testified that it was her husband's responsibility to ensure the gun was stored securely and that their son could not access it. One of the arguments made by her lawyer was that she did not know guns well.
So what happened to feminism and equality. Suddenly there are things that are a man's job.
Smith also argued that in Oxford, where the shooting happened, it is common for students to go hunting with guns. A school official testified that many seniors take prom portraits with their guns and that they often need to be reminded not to come to school with their guns during hunting season.
In 1983 when the vice principal learned I had a HK93 in the school parking lot, because the range was close to the school and I sometimes went shooting right after, he wanted to see it because he was thinking about buying one. If I went to school in the last 20 years I'd probably be doing LIFE. Of course even with a HK93 in the parking lot, it never occurred to me to settle my various social challenges by shooting up the school.
Not sure how I feel about this one. On one hand if your pitbull runs out of the door and attacks somebody, it is YOUR fault. But I know some parents who did everything they could but their kid was still a full on shithead. Does sort of look like they were prosecuted for being horrible people and if all it takes is ignoring your kids and adultery we should lock up half the country.
Part of this is parents of dead kids trying to find somebody or something to blame, because their entire situation is so extremely unjust and unfair that saying "but these things happen" just isn't gonna cut it. Just ask the parents of the children killed by Adam Lanza, the fact that he executed his mother first brings them zero comfort or any sense of justice. When your kid is murdered at school, a place you should feel safe to send them, NOTHING will ever make it right. The jury might feel like they made things better somehow, but honestly the parents will take little comfort from anything.
But another part of this is recognizing that your kid might be very ****ed up and by extension you might be very ****ed up is the kind of personal observation and reflection that few people are willing to engage in. When it's your family, sometimes you just can't see it because your family is your sense of normal. Again the Adam Lanza case is a perfect example, all the warning signs were there and while his mom was taking steps to finally address it...it came too late for her and for all the parents of his victims. But how many parents will look at their kids and say "They have serious problems, they need to be taken out of our home and put in a supervised facility."
This is also a consequence of normalizing extreme mental illness both in the home and at school. When children decide they identify as animals or non terrestrial beings and have those ideas validated and supported by the school, well then nobody is mentally ill. And here are the consequences of deciding people with serious mental challenges need to be accepted or mainstreamed of just possibly medicated.
I worked for the school board of Broward County in the early 90s and I remember telling a LOT of people that various policies were gonna come back and bite them on the ass. But I had no idea just how bad it would get. The Parkland shooting happened not very far from my home in Florida. One of my best friends was supposed to be there dropping off papers that afternoon, he decided to get up early and do it before school so he wouldn't lose most of his lunch hour. He and his wife attended a LOT of funerals for family and friends after that.
This is also a consequence of normalizing extreme mental illness both in the home and at school. When children decide they identify as animals or non terrestrial beings and have those ideas validated and supported by the school, well then nobody is mentally ill. And here are the consequences of deciding people with serious mental challenges need to be accepted or mainstreamed of just possibly medicated.
This right here. This trend of validating and pushing acceptance of mental illness instead of treating it or just plain telling a kid “no, you are NOT a furry so grow up” is both devastating to that kid and society. We are seeing repercussions everywhere of this behavior and not just with school shootings. The workforce is being eviscerated because a lot of young people have never been told no or made to accept they are responsible for themselves and their actions. They think they should be paid $100k a year to strum a guitar in a Starbucks because that is what they want to do.
ChattanoogaPhil
02-07-24, 08:27
School officials had called the Crumbley parents to the school the morning of the shooting after finding violent drawings he had done on a school assignment. He was also caught searching online for bullets at school, watching shooting videos in class and drawing violent images on several other papers.
Internet search for bullets... watching shooting videos. uh huh. How many here did similar things in the last 24hrs? Obviously a psycho. Drawings in school sending school admin into a panic? Where have I heard this before... https://www.kcra.com/article/middle-school-student-suspended-for-drawing-of-stick-figure-holding-gun/19619078
It will be overturned on appeal, especially after this gets used against some liberal snowflake parents. Conspiracy type charge, but if handing out machine guns to monkeys is the new standard, lots of people going to jail.
This mom gets convicted, and we don’t actually go after people that actual kill and attack people. But if it goes after gun owners, it’s all open season. We’ll get our 2A rights, and DAs will take away your freedom if you actually use it.
It's only overturned on appeal if there are procedural issues, not if the law is misapplied. It could go up the courts where higher courts could determine if it was an unlawful conviction, but based on precedent I am not sure it'll be overturned. The prosecution's case is pretty logical, if not often circumstantial.
So a few things...
Not to give the parents a pass, but the last thing I'd do is trust a school to be involved in my kids mental health.
If I grew up in the last 20 years my father would be doing LIFE. I had my own firearms and ammo in my room, in my gun cabinet since the 4th grade.
So what happened to feminism and equality. Suddenly there are things that are a man's job.
In 1983 when the vice principal learned I had a HK93 in the school parking lot, because the range was close to the school and I sometimes went shooting right after, he wanted to see it because he was thinking about buying one. If I went to school in the last 20 years I'd probably be doing LIFE. Of course even with a HK93 in the parking lot, it never occurred to me to settle my various social challenges by shooting up the school.
Not sure how I feel about this one. On one hand if your pitbull runs out of the door and attacks somebody, it is YOUR fault. But I know some parents who did everything they could but their kid was still a full on shithead. Does sort of look like they were prosecuted for being horrible people and if all it takes is ignoring your kids and adultery we should lock up half the country.
Part of this is parents of dead kids trying to find somebody or something to blame, because their entire situation is so extremely unjust and unfair that saying "but these things happen" just isn't gonna cut it. Just ask the parents of the children killed by Adam Lanza, the fact that he executed his mother first brings them zero comfort or any sense of justice. When your kid is murdered at school, a place you should feel safe to send them, NOTHING will ever make it right. The jury might feel like they made things better somehow, but honestly the parents will take little comfort from anything.
But another part of this is recognizing that your kid might be very ****ed up and by extension you might be very ****ed up is the kind of personal observation and reflection that few people are willing to engage in. When it's your family, sometimes you just can't see it because your family is your sense of normal. Again the Adam Lanza case is a perfect example, all the warning signs were there and while his mom was taking steps to finally address it...it came too late for her and for all the parents of his victims. But how many parents will look at their kids and say "They have serious problems, they need to be taken out of our home and put in a supervised facility."
This is also a consequence of normalizing extreme mental illness both in the home and at school. When children decide they identify as animals or non terrestrial beings and have those ideas validated and supported by the school, well then nobody is mentally ill. And here are the consequences of deciding people with serious mental challenges need to be accepted or mainstreamed of just possibly medicated.
I worked for the school board of Broward County in the early 90s and I remember telling a LOT of people that various policies were gonna come back and bite them on the ass. But I had no idea just how bad it would get. The Parkland shooting happened not very far from my home in Florida. One of my best friends was supposed to be there dropping off papers that afternoon, he decided to get up early and do it before school so he wouldn't lose most of his lunch hour. He and his wife attended a LOT of funerals for family and friends after that.
I don't necessarily disagree with many of your points; however, you just bulleted the prosecution's care perfectly. They had a logical case, and a case where they (rightfully or not) argued that one link in the chain of events lead to the next. What I do not know, none of us do, is the veracity of any of those arguments and claims and the extent. If the kid was really off his hinges and the school told the parents, multiple times, and the parents did nothing.... the defense should have countered why that was the case. I imagine they did but it was either too little or not enough to sway the jury.
We can argue about what we did as teens a million years ago, but that will never fly as a defense or justification in any court.
On these sort of things I fall into the "if it's as bad as the prosecution says, then good...if it's is how the defense argued, than that's awful" camp.
SomeOtherGuy
02-07-24, 09:40
It's obvious that many here are going just from the headline and don't know the basic facts of the case. This was an egregious and awful case. The verdict does set a bad precedent, but on the facts here it does not offend me.
Short, short version: parents who weren't awesome had a kid with obvious mental health troubles. Maybe within normal teen range, but definitely troubled. They got him his own pistol as a present and mom took him shooting. They took no care whatsoever to keep track of that pistol, keep it locked up, etc.
But worse than that, troubled teen had made threats and both kid and parents were called into a school meeting to discuss his issues and a treatment plan. Parents basically denied everything, treated it as nothing, and most importantly, they didn't bother to check whether that pistol was at home and safe. Surprise, it was actually in teen's backpack. School also failed here, but parents were a big failure because they literally supplied the pistol and failed to take any care about its location, even after hearing from the school concerns about their kid. Later that same day, kid murders fellow classmates.
I'm sure some people would say that the parents should be responsible in all cases, and I don't agree with that. But this isn't a situation where an otherwise good kid suddenly turned scary, nor is it a situation where the kid managed to break into some appropriate storage and steal a gun. A known troubled kid was given a gun and parents didn't monitor that. This is an extreme case.
So, if a scum gang banger kills your spouse, can you get their shit head parents jailed for being shitty parents and enabling them?
Good for the goose, good for the gander. It will be an uphill fight given the far-left cities where that stuff usually happens, but it's worth trying, and those same cities have plenty of aggressive plaintiff lawyers as well.
ChattanoogaPhil
02-07-24, 12:08
So, if a scum gang banger kills your spouse, can you get their shit head parents jailed for being shitty parents and enabling them?
Only if it's with a gun.
If this so-called troubled teen had grabbed a set of car keys that the parents 'carelessly didn't have locked in a safe', then used the parent's car to kill six people would we be having this conversation?
If this so-called troubled teen had grabbed a set of car keys that the parents 'carelessly didn't have locked in a safe', then used the parent's car to kill six people would we be having this conversation?
That's false equivalence, but I get your point.
ChattanoogaPhil
02-07-24, 13:27
That's false equivalence, but I get your point.
Are vehicles not considered deadly weapons when they are used as such?
My point was that society has been successful at demonizing guns. That's the reason we're having this discussion.
Are vehicles not considered deadly weapons when they are used as such?
My point was that society has been successful at demonizing guns. That's the reason we're having this discussion.
So then...same with a baseball bat, same with a hammer, same with.... it's all a logical fallacy no matter how you slice it.
Like I said, I get your point, and I do not disagree.
Now do incidents like this:
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/crime/article/Gerald-Goines-Rulings-17715972.php
It's obvious that many here are going just from the headline and don't know the basic facts of the case. This was an egregious and awful case. The verdict does set a bad precedent, but on the facts here it does not offend me.
Short, short version: parents who weren't awesome had a kid with obvious mental health troubles. Maybe within normal teen range, but definitely troubled. They got him his own pistol as a present and mom took him shooting. They took no care whatsoever to keep track of that pistol, keep it locked up, etc.
But worse than that, troubled teen had made threats and both kid and parents were called into a school meeting to discuss his issues and a treatment plan. Parents basically denied everything, treated it as nothing, and most importantly, they didn't bother to check whether that pistol was at home and safe. Surprise, it was actually in teen's backpack. School also failed here, but parents were a big failure because they literally supplied the pistol and failed to take any care about its location, even after hearing from the school concerns about their kid. Later that same day, kid murders fellow classmates.
I'm sure some people would say that the parents should be responsible in all cases, and I don't agree with that. But this isn't a situation where an otherwise good kid suddenly turned scary, nor is it a situation where the kid managed to break into some appropriate storage and steal a gun. A known troubled kid was given a gun and parents didn't monitor that. This is an extreme case.
Good for the goose, good for the gander. It will be an uphill fight given the far-left cities where that stuff usually happens, but it's worth trying, and those same cities have plenty of aggressive plaintiff lawyers as well.
My position exactly. This is a tough one, really pushes the boundaries of whether a parent has any legal responsibilities for the actions of their kids. Morally, the parents are garbage humans who never should have had kids. But, that's not uncommon either sadly.
My position exactly. This is a tough one, really pushes the boundaries of whether a parent has any legal responsibilities for the actions of their kids. Morally, the parents are garbage humans who never should have had kids. But, that's not uncommon either sadly.
Agreed, POS parents can lead to some terrible offspring doing terrible things. If this type of standard was applied universally I might say "fair enough". These particular folks and the parents of thousands of other ferals could face the consequences of their negligence/malfeasance. This case reaks of predisposition and targeted prosecution though.
And here is another one where accountability would be good.
https://news.yahoo.com/virginia-cops-murder-arson-catfishing-090031269.html
SomeOtherGuy
02-08-24, 12:21
This case reaks of predisposition and targeted prosecution though.
If I could say something in defense of the parents I might agree. Waiting for the father's trial to see exactly how his defense looks; mom looked more guilty in the press I've seen so far. The facts of the case are really, really bad, and I think most prosecutors would have charged at least the mom and probably both parents.
One thing that bugs me is that the kid was known to be troubled based on his writings and reports of "voices," etc. That suggests mental illness, which often shows up around the teen years. Parents absolutely 100% should have paid attention to that. However, the shooter/teen has also been convicted of murder and is serving a near life sentence. If he was really mentally ill, that's not right. If he was NOT mentally ill, well that might change my view of the parents' guilt.
Agreed, POS parents can lead to some terrible offspring doing terrible things. If this type of standard was applied universally I might say "fair enough". These particular folks and the parents of thousands of other ferals could face the consequences of their negligence/malfeasance.
The problem is that "our side" largely believes in law, justice, and rules that apply to all. The "other side" is tribal, not purely by skin color (although often) but largely by willingness to say and do things that "our side" considers immoral or simply wrong. Because the other side is tribal, they don't need to have any moral standards. Because our side is based on morality and justice, we can't simply ignore crimes committed by people we would otherwise like to help.
The solution, of course, is to apply the rules to all and be equally hard on the tribal "other side" as on anyone else.
Averageman
02-08-24, 12:36
Just to be Devils Advocate;
Have you ever met a good person that just raised a very bad child?
Because I have.
Just to be Devils Advocate;
Have you ever met a good person that just raised a very bad child?
Because I have.
"The enemy gets a vote." That axiom can be translated to any party of a two (or more) party relationship. Dealing with that in our extended family: great parents, awful daughter.
SomeOtherGuy
02-08-24, 13:14
Just to be Devils Advocate;
Have you ever met a good person that just raised a very bad child?
Because I have.
Yes, I have too.
I'm not judging the parents based on what their son did. I'm judging them based on what they did with the information they apparently had.
Averageman
02-08-24, 13:15
I knew a guy who's Mom and Dad were my Parents best friends.
Their Son got creepier and creepier and as he entered his teens he became a crimminal and a "Nut."
He would break into houses that people were sleeping in take all the loose cash and make a sandwich, go into the bedrooms and sometimes leave a half a sandwich behind.
Just crazy stuff.
I knew a guy who's Mom and Dad were my Parents best friends.
Their Son got creepier and creepier and as he entered his teens he became a crimminal and a "Nut."
He would break into houses that people were sleeping in take all the loose cash and make a sandwich, go into the bedrooms and sometimes leave a half a sandwich behind.
Just crazy stuff.
A kid I grew up with, a good friend in elementary and middle school, was raised by his grandmother, the sweetest woman who ever trod soil. He became weirder over the years of growing up, he and I went in different directions in junior high. In 1985 when we were in high school he murdered a UNC-CH co-ed.
You can only 'parent' so much. You can't parent legit mental illness and free will.
titsonritz
02-08-24, 14:25
Just to be Devils Advocate;
Have you ever met a good person that just raised a very bad child?
Because I have.
Did they arm him?
Averageman
02-08-24, 14:45
Did they arm him?
It was the mid 70's and a very rural place. Everyone had a shotgun and a lot of guys had access to every gun their Dad owned.
Remember the old school glass gun cases people used to have in their livingrooms? Those were the norm back then.
Just to be Devils Advocate;
Have you ever met a good person that just raised a very bad child?
Because I have.
Of course, but they are outliers. The other 98% of the time, where there's chit kids there is chit parents.
Just to be Devils Advocate;
Have you ever met a good person that just raised a very bad child?
Because I have.
Absolutely, and those parents deserve no blame. I'm not even sure it's right to blame shit parents for the actions of their kids. 'Free Agency" of said kids and all, even if they don't have a full set of tools. All I am saying is that if this set of bad parents are held responsible for being crappy then there are scads of others who should be held to the same standard. Parents who at worst encouraged or at least just couldn't give a shit as their kids became violent criminals.
Of course, but they are outliers. The other 98% of the time, where there's chit kids there is chit parents.
That is often how it goes, but I knew a lot of people who grew up in shit houses, loaded with shitty people and it convinced them to go to school, get good grades and get the F away from these people.
One of my friends I helped him move. Fellow martial artist who was helping me with computer stuff, when I saw where he lived and who he had to live with it would have been easy to convince me that aliens dropped him off at that house and he didn't really spend 19 years living around these people.
Yup. Bartenders can be liable if they give someone too much booze, knowing they are impaired, and then they kill someone while driving impaired.
Physicians have been liable for ordering too much anesthesia or sedation. The list goes on.
There's a lot of information here we don't know. Does the kid have a history of mental health issues? Was he intellectually his age or developmentally delayed? Did the parents say things at home to encourage him?
I don't know the case, I find this pretty extraordinary so I do want to read up about it. But right now I'm not going to get my rage up until I know more.
You are partially incorrect, bartenders can be held partially responsible in a civil suit but they are not charged with involuntary manslaughter for over serving a patron who kills another. At the most a bartender would be charged with selling an alcoholic beverage to an intoxicated person (aka over serving) which is a misdemeanor. Additionally if a doctor overdosed a patient they would likely be charged and held responsible but they were the directly responsible party for the overdose. Just like a junky being charged with murder/manslaughter for providing the drugs in a fatal overdose case.
That's not what's being alleged here however. This court has decided that the parents were responsible for someone else's deaths because they bought a legal firearm for their son to use legally at the range. They could have been charged with negligent storage or some such misdemeanor but I think involuntary manslaughter is a huge bridge too far for culpability under the law.
You are partially incorrect, bartenders can be held partially responsible in a civil suit but they are not charged with involuntary manslaughter for over serving a patron who kills another. At the most a bartender would be charged with selling an alcoholic beverage to an intoxicated person (aka over serving) which is a misdemeanor. Additionally if a doctor overdosed a patient they would likely be charged and held responsible but they were the directly responsible party for the overdose. Just like a junky being charged with murder/manslaughter for providing the drugs in a fatal overdose case.
That's not what's being alleged here however. This court has decided that the parents were responsible for someone else's deaths because they bought a legal firearm for their son to use legally at the range. They could have been charged with negligent storage or some such misdemeanor but I think involuntary manslaughter is a huge bridge too far for culpability under the law.
I may have engaged in my own false equivalence; however, to your points, bartenders HAVE been charged with and found guilty of manslaughter.
After reading about this case a bit more, it's way more than 'just' the parents bought a gun for their son to shoot at the range.
Averageman
02-09-24, 09:31
I'm kind of wondering why "If you have a troubled kid, buy him a Gun" is ever the answer.
I'm approaching my middle sixties, when I was a kid guns were everywhere. Every livingroom in America had a glass gun case and NRA magazines on the coffee table. We had a "Gun Club" at school and shot NRA small Bore .22's.
I got angry at people, we had fist fights and at times I got very angry with people. Never hurt anyone besides some bumps and bruises.
Never killed anyone, never really wanted to.
But these guys are a whole new kind of crazy, the not only want to die, they want to take a lot of people with them.
I just can't wrap my mind around all that.
I'm kind of wondering why "If you have a troubled kid, buy him a Gun" is ever the answer.
I'm approaching my middle sixties, when I was a kid guns were everywhere. Every livingroom in America had a glass gun case and NRA magazines on the coffee table. We had a "Gun Club" at school and shot NRA small Bore .22's.
I got angry at people, we had fist fights and at times I got very angry with people. Never hurt anyone besides some bumps and bruises.
Never killed anyone, never really wanted to.
But these guys are a whole new kind of crazy, the not only want to die, they want to take a lot of people with them.
I just can't wrap my mind around all that.
If I had a kid that I was concerned enough about their anger and impulse control, I'd be locking up all the guns, knives, car keys and medications. If I was concerned enough to do that, I'd make getting that kid every bit of help I could a priority. I'd also be making sure their idle time was filled with family time, rather than playing video games alone in their room. :(
titsonritz
02-09-24, 12:59
If I had a kid that I was concerned enough about their anger and impulse control, I'd be locking up all the guns, knives, car keys and medications. If I was concerned enough to do that, I'd make getting that kid every bit of help I could a priority. I'd also be making sure their idle time was filled with family time, rather than playing video games alone in their room. :(
You mean like a responsible parent?
You mean like a responsible parent?
I know, it’s crazy talk but I’ll bet it works in more cases than we’ll ever know!
I'm kind of wondering why "If you have a troubled kid, buy him a Gun" is ever the answer.
I'm approaching my middle sixties, when I was a kid guns were everywhere. Every livingroom in America had a glass gun case and NRA magazines on the coffee table. We had a "Gun Club" at school and shot NRA small Bore .22's.
I got angry at people, we had fist fights and at times I got very angry with people. Never hurt anyone besides some bumps and bruises.
Never killed anyone, never really wanted to.
But these guys are a whole new kind of crazy, the not only want to die, they want to take a lot of people with them.
I just can't wrap my mind around all that.Different raising of kids these days.
We messed up in school and the teacher got out a cutting board and tanned our butts.
We did something wrong at a friends house, their parents tanned our butts then called our parents who did the same when we got home.
Etc,etc, etc
Today kids run wild, play video games that appear to be pretty close to real as opposed to our astroids and centipede.
A week or two ago a kid was acting up in a store, so much it was getting on my nerves. I asked the mother if she wanted to borrow belt to take the child to the bathroom, you would gave thought I suggested she murder Jesus Christ by how offended she got.
Many kids have no sense of right or wrong these days, as the parents are either too scared or dumb to teach them.
StainlessSteelRat
02-10-24, 10:14
I'm kind of wondering why "If you have a troubled kid, buy him a Gun" is ever the answer.
I'm approaching my middle sixties, when I was a kid guns were everywhere. Every livingroom in America had a glass gun case and NRA magazines on the coffee table. We had a "Gun Club" at school and shot NRA small Bore .22's.
I got angry at people, we had fist fights and at times I got very angry with people. Never hurt anyone besides some bumps and bruises.
Never killed anyone, never really wanted to.
But these guys are a whole new kind of crazy, the not only want to die, they want to take a lot of people with them.
I just can't wrap my mind around all that.
I can relate, I'm about the same age. I got a Marlin 60 for my 9th birthday and I was in charge of it. Most of my friends had a .22 or shotgun, and we'd be all over with em. We'd have never dreamed of misuing them. Cut to a couple months ago, I was waiting to check out at Walmart and a little girl about 8 was acting up and her Dad finally scolded her, she says, " F you, I don't have to mind you." The lady behind me and I were waiting for the hammer to fall, he did nothing but whine at her some more. Damn, I'd still be digging shoe leather outta my colon if I'd ever said anything like that to an adult.
Many kids have no sense of right or wrong these days, as the parents are either too scared or dumb to teach them.
Or more likely engaged in "active listening" and making sure they are "validating feelings."
Or more likely engaged in "active listening" and making sure they are "validating feelings."
Actually 'active listening' is the only way to really know what your kid is talking about. It's parents NOT listening that is one of the issues.
Or more likely engaged in "active listening" and making sure they are "validating feelings."
Actually 'active listening' is the only way to really know what your kid is talking about. It's parents NOT listening that is one of the issues.
Or more likely engaged in "active listening" and making sure they are "validating feelings."Agreed
Actually 'active listening' is the only way to really know what your kid is talking about. It's parents NOT listening that is one of the issues.
Sure...IF a parent is doing that AND parenting. But too many parents simply listen to their kids problems, tell them "it's normal and they are great kids" and then do nothing else. Kids almost never hear that what they are "feeling / thinking" is wrong, parents would rather lets kids express their feelings including all manner of acting out in completely inappropriate ways than take any form of corrective action.
No matter what kind of shit I pulled as a kid, in my mind I had some kind of justification from a sense of self entitlement to just a BS excuse that I thought would present what I did in a better light, my dad listened to it...ran it through his BS meter and then came up with the best way to make me fix whatever I had done. Eventually I figured out that "having to fix it" is a lot more work than the shit I was pulling for whatever reason I was doing it.
Agreed
So you don't listen to your kids? Yikes...
So you don't listen to your kids? Yikes...I listen but don't "validate feelings". If they were wrong they were set straight.
One of our daughters is a veterinarian, the other runs one of our businesses, so whatever my wife and I did must have worked.
I'm overseeing that my 6 year old type 1 diabetic grandson is being brought up the same way by a parent and not a friend.
So you don't listen to your kids? Yikes...
I think we have a disconnect. I don't think most people who engage in "active listening" actually do it. I think they simply listen to whatever their kids say and then go along with 100% of it and reinforce any and all ideas. That is because to certain kinds of people it's simply the "new" new age / new wisdom ideology which is actually nothing more than a rejection of anything traditional / conventional in favor of anything else.
I would wager good parents engaged in "active listening" before the term was adopted by pop psychology and embraced by progressives in the 90s.
I know I used the term disparagingly, but that is because I was first introduced to it in the 90s via the school board as an alternative parenting method. The context in this case, the school board talking to parents of very "at risk" kids who were already engaging in gang activity, drugs and crime as a solution to their problems by validating what they feel and building their sense of self worth rather than categorizing their behavior as either "good or bad." The idea being that if you simply listen to your kids, they won't feel judged and will be more likely to engage in positive behavior.
Different raising of kids these days.
.
A week or two ago a kid was acting up in a store, so much it was getting on my nerves. I asked the mother if she wanted to borrow belt to take the child to the bathroom, you would gave thought I suggested she murder Jesus Christ by how offended she got.
I wouldn’t take mine to the bathroom either. I’d have tanned their hide in the middle of the aisle in front of good and everyone.
My wife makes cakes as a side gig. Two summers ago she delivered a cake to a wedding at a golf course. The kid and I went with her, and we were sitting by this little stream he was playing in it throwing rocks in it. He threw a rock at me (he was 4) I told him don’t do it again. He picked up a bigger one and tried doing it. I grabbed it out of his hands, quicker than he could blink, his pants were down and he was over my knee with people standing around watching. He screamed bloody murder and I tanned him pretty good.
I stood him up, pulled his pants up sat him on my knee and asked him WHY he got in trouble. He wouldn’t stop crying, so I told him he could stop crying or get spanked again. He stopped the best he could and I asked him again, he blubbered because I was going to throw a rock at you. I told him yes and I told you not to, didn’t I? He said yes, I hugged him and told him I loved him but he needs to listen.
You know what, in 30mths I’ve only spanked him once since that. He’s been lightly tapped on the butt to get his hearing to work, but only spanked once since.
And he knows if he’s messed up he can come to me and tell me. He might get in trouble for what happened, but never for telling me and less for telling me than me finding out.
Parenting isn’t easy, but you need to do it. They need to know boundaries.
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I wouldn’t take mine to the bathroom either. I’d have tanned their hide in the middle of the aisle in front of good and everyone.
My wife makes cakes as a side gig. Two summers ago she delivered a cake to a wedding at a golf course. The kid and I went with her, and we were sitting by this little stream he was playing in it throwing rocks in it. He threw a rock at me (he was 4) I told him don’t do it again. He picked up a bigger one and tried doing it. I grabbed it out of his hands, quicker than he could blink, his pants were down and he was over my knee with people standing around watching. He screamed bloody murder and I tanned him pretty good.
I stood him up, pulled his pants up sat him on my knee and asked him WHY he got in trouble. He wouldn’t stop crying, so I told him he could stop crying or get spanked again. He stopped the best he could and I asked him again, he blubbered because I was going to throw a rock at you. I told him yes and I told you not to, didn’t I? He said yes, I hugged him and told him I loved him but he needs to listen.
You know what, in 30mths I’ve only spanked him once since that. He’s been lightly tapped on the butt to get his hearing to work, but only spanked once since.
And he knows if he’s messed up he can come to me and tell me. He might get in trouble for what happened, but never for telling me and less for telling me than me finding out.
Parenting isn’t easy, but you need to do it. They need to know boundaries.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkIt sounds like your child is being raised the right way.
I'm happy to hear that, unfortunately I believe you are in the minority of parents doing things this way these days.
It sounds like your child is being raised the right way.
I'm happy to hear that, unfortunately I believe you are in the minority of parents doing things this way these days.
Unfortunately I agree with you on the minority. And thank you, we try hard. You have to know when to be soft and compassionate with them and when to be hard. It’s not an easy line to walk.
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titsonritz
04-09-24, 19:42
10-15 years.
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