View Full Version : Anyone still .40 S&W?
Busted out the old G22 for my every other year qualification shoot, and got sticker shock at the price of practice ammo. $0.35 per round average price for bulk. I had to pay like $0.50 for a quick LGS box to shoot.
I wouldn't guess that the 40 cal demand is that great these days. That's my tragic story for the week. :(
Busted out the old G22 for my every other year qualification shoot, and got sticker shock at the price of practice ammo. $0.35 per round average price for bulk. I had to pay like $0.50 for a quick LGS box to shoot.
I wouldn't guess that the 40 cal demand is that great these days. That's my tragic story for the week. :(
Never owned one. I've owned 9mms, 45s, 38spls, 357 mags, 44 mag, 32acp, 10mm, even a 38 super. Never a 40 cal.
Glock 23 here, with conversion barrels for 9mm, .357 sig, 22tcm. Handload everything I shoot. No problem at all.
-TL
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Never bothered with the 40 either, much like kirkland, I own too many calibers already. Never saw the point of messing with 40 when 9 and 45 out of auto's works just dandy.
I never did get dies for 40 cal. I just don't shoot enough of it to justify a loading set up. I just hurt my soul to pay $0.50 per round when 9mm is nearly half that.
I was terrified to shoot the pistol after running everyone else's 9mm pistols all the time. But after the first snappy recoil, I was able to run the gun respectably.
I enjoy my G27. In a covid world, having a G30, G27, and G17 was a blessing. A solid chance at finding something on the LGS ammo shelf that could work.
I have an M&P40 that I still enjoy, but I also have a Storm Lake 9mm conversion barrel for it. It gets its time on the line too.
I have an HK USP in .40 but rarely shoot it. I don’t have anything against it. If I’m bored one day I might get a P30 in .40
I have dies so it isn’t that bad. I just think “why waste my powder when I can just reload more 9mm.”
I just recently picked up a " new to me" FNS40 to add to the SR40 that I've owned for years. The ole SR40 was the first handgun I'd ever purchased and its still my favorite. Ran years of IDPA with it as well as many training and range sessions...the wife's had an FNS9 for years and I've always liked it too so when one came up recently I just had to grab it.
I just got back into .40!
The reason some people don't shoot .40 well is because they're firing it from a Glock or some single-stack sub-compact.
It's far more pleasant from a PX4 or S&W M&P!
I got back into .45 and learned that many accessories aren't available for the .45 / 10mm frames but are the 9mm / .40 frames. The 9mm / .40 guns are smaller than the .45 guns and hold more rounds.
I reload .45 and found reloading 9x19 to be a pain because of the variety of cases that need to be avoided. Plus the cases are just small.
Reloading is a little more enjoyable with the bigger cases, and I found .40 to be in that category.
I've recently bought cases (1k) of brass .40 fmj for $310 shipped. Not bad. But like I said I reload it, too. 180 gr coated bullets for .10 each shipped.
I carry 165 gr HST.
I reload .45 and found reloading 9x19 to be a pain because of the variety of cases that need to be avoided. Plus the cases are just small.
Which 9mm cases are you avoiding? I’ve never had that problem other than the occasional steel case.
Which 9mm cases are you avoiding? I’ve never had that problem other than the occasional steel case.
Steel, brass-colored steel, alluminum, Berdan primed, stepped, staked primer, and off-center or not-round flash hole stuff.
Also, it's easier to find my own .40, and more so, .45 brass on the ground. This results in mixed brass but only a few brands. Picking up mixed 9x19 brass means dozens of brands.
Also, except for loading 147 gr coated for suppressor use, 9x19 is cheaper to buy or nearly so.
Even .40 is perhaps not worth the trouble cost / time wise. But it's an election year. There will be a run ammo as usual.
I have purchased used, cleaned 9x19 brass. It's worth $25 shipped / 1k. No steel, no alluminum, cleaned, and I didn't have to spend my time bending over nearly 1k times. It was just to load 147 gr coated.
BuzzinSATX
05-06-24, 21:34
I enjoy my G23-4. First Glock I ever bought. Only .40 but I ran it in three Gunsite classes and kept up with most everyone with 9MM’s. It doesn’t see much live these days but I did recently have the slide milled and running a dot on it.
I’ve been toying with making a light 180 lead load but have been busy shooting AR’s lately.
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BuzzinSATX
05-06-24, 21:37
I just got back into .40!
The reason some people don't shoot .40 well is because they're firing it from a Glock or some single-stack sub-compact.
It's far more pleasant from a PX4 or S&W M&P!
I got back into .45 and learned that many accessories aren't available for the .45 / 10mm frames but are the 9mm / .40 frames. The 9mm / .40 guns are smaller than the .45 guns and hold more rounds.
I reload .45 and found reloading 9x19 to be a pain because of the variety of cases that need to be avoided. Plus the cases are just small.
Reloading is a little more enjoyable with the bigger cases, and I found .40 to be in that category.
I've recently bought cases (1k) of brass .40 fmj for $310 shipped. Not bad. But like I said I reload it, too. 180 gr coated bullets for .10 each shipped.
I carry 165 gr HST.
The PX4 in .40’is something I’ve been looking for casually…I hear it is sweet in .40
I’ve shot M&P .40’s and they felt much like a G22 to me…
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Defaultmp3
05-06-24, 21:45
I enjoy my G27. In a covid world, having a G30, G27, and G17 was a blessing. A solid chance at finding something on the LGS ammo shelf that could work.If you're buying ammo from the LGS ammo shelf during an ammo run, you're doing it wrong.
No matter how you cut it, outside of possibly working primarily around vehicles, there's no compelling reason to choose .40 S&W over 9mm.
If you're buying ammo from the LGS ammo shelf during an ammo run, you're doing it wrong.
I agree. But, a lack of preparation and the inability to reload was not my point. Variety is sometimes a good thing when the pinch is felt.
I have a 3rd gen. G22. I have a G31 357 Sig and a Lonewolf 9mm conversion barrels for it. I almost always have the G31 barrel in it. I haven't shot it with the 40 S&W barrel in it in a longtime. Might have to stop and grab a box of it.
NYH1.
I've recently bought cases (1k) of brass .40 fmj for $310 shipped. Not bad.
Yeah. Not too bad. My thing is I shoot my carry gun every 2 years. I don't need 1k rounds. I'm probably fine to just pay ass crazy prices for 200 rounds and quit fussing.
I enjoy my G23-4. First Glock I ever bought. Only .40 but I ran it in three Gunsite classes and kept up with most everyone with 9MM’s. It doesn’t see much live these days but I did recently have the slide milled and running a dot on it.
I’ve been toying with making a light 180 lead load but have been busy shooting AR’s lately.
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I've got a load that throws a 180 gr coated bullet an average of 835 fps. The S&W cycles it and still tosses brass 3-4 feet away. The PX4 won't cycle it at all.
Do it with a fast powder.
The PX4 in .40’is something I’ve been looking for casually…I hear it is sweet in .40
I’ve shot M&P .40’s and they felt much like a G22 to me…
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The PX4 is sweet in .40 and .45. The 9x19 is soft, too but it's pretty soft in any full-size gun unless you're shooting hot stuff.
My M&P is a Compact 2.0. Feels softer than a Glock to me. I will say a G22 with a light mounted is pretty easy shooting, too.
Yeah. Not too bad. My thing is I shoot my carry gun every 2 years. I don't need 1k rounds. I'm probably fine to just pay ass crazy prices for 200 rounds and quit fussing.
Good grief, man! That's awful!
I think the absolute minimum a person should practice with their carry gun is 50 rds 4 times a year. And that's for poors or people who just don't like to shoot.
ViniVidivici
05-06-24, 23:41
I shot and reloaded .40 for years, still do once in a while. Carried a G23 daily.
Right now that G23 is converted to 9mm. That gun is carried every day also.
I shot and reloaded .40 for years, still do once in a while. Carried a G23 daily.
Right now that G23 is converted to 9mm. That gun is carried every day also.Right on. I'm doing the same. One pistol can shoot 4 different calibers. Occasionally I load up some .357 sig and .22TCM9R just for fun. A poor man's 5.7mm.
Sorry for going off the tangent a bit. Have you tried pocket carry the G23?
-TL
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ViniVidivici
05-07-24, 08:14
Right on. I'm doing the same. One pistol can shoot 4 different calibers. Occasionally I load up some .357 sig and .22TCM9R just for fun. A poor man's 5.7mm.
Sorry for going off the tangent a bit. Have you tried pocket carry the G23?
-TL
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Yes, it'll fit in some pockets, but far from ideal. No way I could meet standards carrying that way.
Mine's converted with a whole top half (AIM Slide & OEM G19 barrel). I call it a G19 H, for "hybrid".
Good grief, man! That's awful!
I think the absolute minimum a person should practice with their carry gun is 50 rds 4 times a year. And that's for poors or people who just don't like to shoot.
I know. I joke about it because it's ridiculous. I shoot other guys 9mm all the time, but I've got a small flinch I really ought to work on.
I shot and reloaded .40 for years, still do once in a while. Carried a G23 daily.
Right now that G23 is converted to 9mm. That gun is carried every day also.
I just can't see down grading in caliber. I get that it's cheaper and easier to shoot, but if I have to shoot for defense, I'm liking the larger caliber.
I don't want to start a caliber war, but my son watches these body cam shooting videos all the time and is always bothering me with them. The one thing I noticed is that since everyone carries 9mm these days, these videos almost always involve a high volume of good guy fire. Just a casual observation. I know each shooting is it's own incident, but it seems like mag dump city for almost all of these videos. The threats are not stopping very quickly at all.
Defaultmp3
05-07-24, 09:25
I agree. But, a lack of preparation and the inability to reload was not my point. Variety is sometimes a good thing when the pinch is felt.The money spent on a different gun and associated accessories (mags at the very least) could easily have paid for several thousand rounds of 9mm. A couple cases of 9mm really don't take up much space at all.
I just can't see down grading in caliber. I get that it's cheaper and easier to shoot, but if I have to shoot for defense, I'm liking the larger caliber.
I don't want to start a caliber war, but my son watches these body cam shooting videos all the time and is always bothering me with them. The one thing I noticed is that since everyone carries 9mm these days, these videos almost always involve a high volume of good guy fire. Just a casual observation. I know each shooting is it's own incident, but it seems like mag dump city for almost all of these videos. The threats are not stopping very quickly at all.There is no war at this point. 9mm has won for all practical purposes compared to all other calibers for practical self-defense/duty use. There simply is no advantage to the .40 S&W for self-defense except in extremely niche situations (specifically barrier penetration), while it has many small disadvantages compared to 9mm.
If you think threats would go down perceptibly faster if LE had stuck with .40 S&W, then you are simply flat out wrong.
There is no war at this point. 9mm has won for all practical purposes compared to all other calibers for practical self-defense/duty use
No. I mean a caliber argument on the forum. Just a general observation of 9mm ineffectiveness on a regular basis with the body cam videos.
I remember when we convinced ourselves that modern ammo in 9mm was "just as good" and that the abstract ideas of "knock down power" were laughable. I'm just starting to wonder if there's actually some merit to a larger caliber being better.
Defaultmp3
05-07-24, 10:20
No. I mean a caliber argument on the forum. Just a general observation of 9mm ineffectiveness on a regular basis with the body cam videos.
I remember when we convinced ourselves that modern ammo in 9mm was "just as good" and that the abstract ideas of "knock down power" were laughable. I'm just starting to wonder if there's actually some merit to a larger caliber being better.And I'm saying there would be no meaningful caliber argument, unless the forum really has gone to absolute shit, given the absolute advantage that 9mm Para has. There is absolutely no reason to doubt the effectiveness of 9mm Para in practical self-defense use. The "ineffectiveness" you're observing is simply the fact that handgun calibers are largely ineffective in general; the plethora of video is simply due to the fact that there's so much more body camera footage available now, when 9mm Para is dominant.
Does .40 S&W, hit for hit, have better terminal ballistics performance than 9mm Para? Absolutely. But that slight increased performance is easily offset by the larger recoil, less capacity, and higher cost of ammo, to say nothing of less options for durable and reliable handguns. Any place that you hit that's an immediate incapacitation with a .40 S&W, you will almost always get the same result if hit with 9mm Para. If you don't get immediate incapacitation, wouldn't you much rather to be able to follow up more quickly and more accurately, rather than rely on the smidgen of extra terminal ballistics performance that .40 S&W has? Then there's other issues that more recoil also makes more difficult, such as a compromised grip (e.g., flubbed draw, hands are fatigued from prior events, hands are sweaty or muddy, etc.) or shooting one-handed (e.g., holding a child, injured hand or arm, etc.).
You do you, but if you insist on sticking with .40 S&W just out of some warm fuzzy feeling it gives you rather than any meaningful performance metric you can point to, and then literally never practicing your carry gun or a training equivalent with the same recoil, then, well... yeah.
To me there are no disadvantages having .40 s&w. Occasionally I can pick up .40 bullets really cheap for the obvious reason. I am in California so am limited to 10 rounds. More rounds in 9mm doesn't help. The thicker barrel profile opens door to multiple conversion barrels. In a real pinch, I can even fire 9mm directly in a single shot manner.
The recoil... I can load whatever recoil I like. Haven't bought any loaded ammo for long time. 9mm with similar ballistic performance? Does it require +p loads? Nothing wrong with 9mm. It is my first pistol caliber some 30 years ago. Back then it was laughed at as a pea shooter. I still load and shoot 9mm plenty.
-TL
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Defaultmp3
05-07-24, 11:49
To me there are no disadvantages having .40 s&w. Occasionally I can pick up .40 bullets really cheap for the obvious reason. I am in California so am limited to 10 rounds. More rounds in 9mm doesn't help. The thicker barrel profile opens door to multiple conversion barrels. In a real pinch, I can even fire 9mm directly in a single shot manner.
The recoil... I can load whatever recoil I like. Haven't bought any loaded ammo for long time. 9mm with similar ballistic performance? Does it require +p loads? Nothing wrong with 9mm. It is my first pistol caliber some 30 years ago. Back then it was laughed at as a pea shooter. I still load and shoot 9mm plenty.You can load the ammo to whatever recoil you like, but then does the projectile go fast enough to have proper expansion for the selected bullet, particularly through barriers?
Modern 9mm Para duty ammunition can be quite soft shooting and still meet all FBI penetration standards even after barriers; there is no need for +P 9mm to get that kind of performance. For example, using the FBI Test Protocol through laminated glass, Gold Dot 124 gr penetrated 12.65", Gold Dot 124 gr +P penetrated 14.95", Gold Dot 147 gr penetrated 12.90", Gold Dot 165 gr penetrated 12.80", and Gold Dot 180 gr penetrated 12.75". Gold Dot 124 gr +P had the least amount of final expansion at 0.543", while Gold Dot 180 gr had the most at 0.612", which is 0.069"/1.7526 mm difference in diameter.
I sold the 40 cal handguns years ago. It’s a good caliber, but with 9mm and 45 acp, I didn’t see the need to keep them.
In 9x19, if you choose one the better JHP's offers the minimum level of Police / military service performance from a pistol with @4 inch barrel or longer. A +p load can help.
If I'm carrying a gun the size of a "Compact" or larger I want a bullet that hits harder / makes bigger / deeper holes than just the minimum the FBI said was okay in 1988 so they could blame a bullet when they had a bad day.
For CC, I don't care a 9mm gun of the same size holds 2 more rounds when it already has 12, 14, or 15 rds of .40.
I don't care 9mm offers slightly faster split times when I can fire .40 or .45 at appropriate speeds already.
And I don't care .40 & .45 cost more. I'll pay and I reload them.
The truth is organizations (and people) choose 9x19 because it's the cheapest choice. It also helps those organizations save money on training time getting people up to thier minimum standards.
None of that applies to me.
Defaultmp3
05-07-24, 14:09
I don't care 9mm offers slightly faster split times when I can fire .40 or .45 at appropriate speeds already.What's your split time difference between 9mm Para and .40 S&W for two hits on the T box or the A zone on the head of an IPSC at 3 yards? A 7 yards? What about doing it SHO? WHO?
I've heard a lot of people say that they're just as fast, or almost as fast, with .40 S&W or .45 ACP compared to 9mm Para. That can often be true on the flat range, when you're not fatigued. Throw in being tired, being sweaty, being injured, and all of that typically goes out the window.
Consider that even the top tier CT units in the USA all switched to 9mm, when their funding and training tempo would definitely allow them to continue to use other calibers.
What's your split time difference between 9mm Para and .40 S&W for two hits on the T box or the A zone on the head of an IPSC at 3 yards? A 7 yards? What about doing it SHO? WHO?
I've heard a lot of people say that they're just as fast, or almost as fast, with .40 S&W or .45 ACP compared to 9mm Para. That can often be true on the flat range, when you're not fatigued. Throw in being tired, being sweaty, being injured, and all of that typically goes out the window.
No difference to not enough to make a difference.
But we shouldn't be shooting that fast. About .25-.35s splits is about how fast we should shoot if we want to account for every bullet we send and not be pulling the trigger after the threat has ended.
If I'm trying to pace myself to 3 or 4 shots a second (at the appropriate distance) I should do it with the most powerful gun I achieve that with.
Defaultmp3
05-07-24, 14:41
No difference to not enough to make a difference.
But we shouldn't be shooting that fast. About .25-.35s splits is about how fast we should shoot if we want to account for every bullet we send and not be pulling the trigger after the threat has ended.
If I'm trying to pace myself to 3 or 4 shots a second (at the appropriate distance) I should do it with the most powerful gun I achieve that with.Sure. Anything faster than 0.2 splits is arguably irresponsible in a self-defense or LE context (though the important thing to note is that this does not mean the ability to shoot faster than that is not a very useful skill even if you never reach that speed in a realworld situation). But can you do that kind of split with a compromised grip, doing it one-handed? Again, do you know your split times with that kind of situation between the different calibers? I've seen noticeable differences from people that demonstrated that their splits with a good two-handed grip were fairly even between calibers, but noticeable differences once other factors were introduced (gloves, SHO, WHO, etc.). If you can do 0.25 splits with a 9mm Para, but only 0.35 splits with .40 S&W, sure, it's only a 0.1 second difference, but that's also literally the difference between 4 bullets in one second and 3 bullets in one second, a 40% increase in split time; I would definitely take the 9mm Para even with the slight decrease in terminal ballistic performance, given the noticeable increase in split speed, even all else the same.
Sure. Anything faster than 0.2 splits is arguably irresponsible in a self-defense or LE context (though the important thing to note is that this does not mean the ability to shoot faster than that is not a very useful skill even if you never reach that speed in a realworld situation). But can you do that kind of split with a compromised grip, doing it one-handed? Again, do you know your split times with that kind of situation between the different calibers? I've seen noticeable differences from people that demonstrated that their splits with a good two-handed grip were fairly even between calibers, but noticeable differences once other factors were introduced (gloves, SHO, WHO, etc.). If you can do 0.25 splits with a 9mm Para, but only 0.35 splits with .40 S&W, sure, it's only a 0.1 second difference, but that's also literally the difference between 4 bullets in one second and 3 bullets in one second, a 40% increase in split time; I would definitely take the 9mm Para even with the slight decrease in terminal ballistic performance, given the noticeable increase in split speed, even all else the same.
I have not recorded one-handed split times or draw to shot times. I should do that.
But whatever the difference is I don't think it's going to suggest a cartridge change.
To me there are no disadvantages having .40 s&w.
For sure. I have my 9mm pistols too, but after shooting the old 40 this weekend, I'm feeling the 40 a little again. I was frightened that shooting a bunch of 9mm over the last year (especially in some creme puffs like the Staccato which I love), I was going to have totally wrecked my pistol shooting ability.
I even rocked my Iraqgunz modded Safariland 1/2 thigh rig.
BuzzinSATX
05-07-24, 21:32
I've got a load that throws a 180 gr coated bullet an average of 835 fps. The S&W cycles it and still tosses brass 3-4 feet away. The PX4 won't cycle it at all.
Do it with a fast powder.
I was going to start with N320
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I was going to start with N320
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I've never used that one.
I've been using 700x and HP38.
titsonritz
05-07-24, 23:13
I got rid of it along with 45acp and 10mm, if I need to bump up in power range from 9mm I go straight to 44 mag.
BuzzinSATX
05-08-24, 04:03
I've never used that one.
I've been using 700x and HP38.
I was a big Win231 user but now N320 replaced W231/HP38 for me. Just seems to burn much cleaner. I’ve become a Vihtavuori fan. But thanks much for the advice.
Guessing 700X is for your more spicy loads?
I was a big Win231 user but now N320 replaced W231/HP38 for me. Just seems to burn much cleaner. I’ve become a Vihtavuori fan. But thanks much for the advice.
Guessing 700X is for your more spicy loads?
Perhaps I'll try N320 myself.
Nah, I only load mild .40.
I was a big Win231 user but now N320 replaced W231/HP38 for me. Just seems to burn much cleaner. I’ve become a Vihtavuori fan. But thanks much for the advice.
Guessing 700X is for your more spicy loads?
Perhaps I'll try N320 myself.
Nah, I only load mild .40.
I was a big Win231 user but now N320 replaced W231/HP38 for me. Just seems to burn much cleaner. I’ve become a Vihtavuori fan. But thanks much for the advice.
Guessing 700X is for your more spicy loads?
Damn. Maybe I'll buy some 40 dies. If I find a new 40 cal pistol I like, it might be worth it. My current G22 is like 24 years old. :blink:
Bulldog7972
05-08-24, 10:49
I carry the 40 and am quite happy with it. I don't think it's Thors hammer nor do I rely on one stop shots. But like the 45, I believe it gives me an edge and no matter how small that edge is, it's an edge. I own, shoot and carry the 9 from time to time so I'm not a hater. It's an ok round. I just don't buy into the hype about it.
ViniVidivici
05-08-24, 11:15
I only ever used W231 & Titegroup for it, always happy with the loads.
Had a nice hot 155gr XTP load for it. Have to look at my data when I get home, I THINK it was 5.7gr Titegroup.
I carry the 40 and am quite happy with it. I don't think it's Thors hammer nor do I rely on one stop shots. But like the 45, I believe it gives me an edge and no matter how small that edge is, it's an edge. I own, shoot and carry the 9 from time to time so I'm not a hater. It's an ok round. I just don't buy into the hype about it.
That's pretty much my view of it. To me, it seemed like Phoenix and Mesa PDs were much more deadly in the G22 days. Again, just a casual observation over many videos on the high round count to neutralize threats with the 9mm.
I'd bet anything that there's some data or study on the number of rounds fired by L.E. personnel that could be analyzed. For emphasis.. I still carry a 9mm pistol (S&W Sheild) regularly too. So don't call me racist like some ignoramus did in another thread. :sarcastic:
BuzzinSATX
05-08-24, 13:34
Perhaps I'll try N320 myself.
Nah, I only load mild .40.
N320 is for mild loads…only faster VV pistol powder is N310. Lots of folks like that one for soft shooting 147 gr 9MM loads. I think the load is 3.0 gr under a 147 gr 9MM from RMR
But VV app isn’t showing N310 for .40 so N320 (a favorite of mine) has it. But if I had 310, an email to VV would likely give me a good load range.
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BuzzinSATX
05-08-24, 13:38
Damn. Maybe I'll buy some 40 dies. If I find a new 40 cal pistol I like, it might be worth it. My current G22 is like 24 years old. :blink:
I’ve been sorely tempted to get a Gen 5 Glock MOS in .40 as they have supposedly beefed up the slide a bit to add mass which makes for a (perceived) softer shooting gun.
If I did it would probably be a G23…just prefer that size…
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I’ve been sorely tempted to get a Gen 5 Glock MOS in .40 as they have supposedly beefed up the slide a bit to add mass which makes for a (perceived) softer shooting gun.
If I did it would probably be a G23…just prefer that size…
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I've held a Gen 5 G23 and yes, the slide is considerably beefier / wider. Should have been that way from the beginning.
A major reason why people find it harder to shoot well. Guns designed for 9x19 rarely make good .40's.
I’ve been sorely tempted to get a Gen 5 Glock MOS in .40 as they have supposedly beefed up the slide a bit to add mass which makes for a (perceived) softer shooting gun.
Oh I've looked at the Gen 5 G22 too, but I've had a few post Gen 2 glocks that have shaken my faith in glock quite a bit. A Gen 3 G17 that defied physics and hit me on the left side of my head with brass, for example. That's why I'm still running an ancient Gen 2 G22.
Oh I've looked at the Gen 5 G22 too, but I've had a few post Gen 2 glocks that have shaken my faith in glock quite a bit. A Gen 3 G17 that defied physics and hit me on the left side of my head with brass, for example. That's why I'm still running an ancient Gen 2 G22.
Yup. Trigger issues, shorter chamber, loss of the polygonal rifling.
Try an M&P 2.0 .40.
Hah! I've had many Glocks. Only one doesn't throw brass at me. It's the only reason I've kept it. Well, and to stay a little fresh with such a common gun. It's a G19 3.
Try an M&P 2.0 .40.
I'll start looking at that. Probably the end of summer before I can start spending money in the gun realm again. Starting to sniff around at die sets and bullets too.
ViniVidivici
05-08-24, 17:36
I will say that everything DefaultMP3 said was spot on, and saved me alot of typing.
Encompasses the reasons I went back to 9mm after 2 decades.
My scores are better, I'm faster, and greater capacity of ammo. Every edge I can get matters.
Never bothered with the 40 either, much like kirkland, I own too many calibers already. Never saw the point of messing with 40 when 9 and 45 out of auto's works just dandy.
That's where I'm at. The only exotic I've got is a USP compact in .357 SIG because I bought it for my dad, because that is the one he wanted and when he passed I got it back. Funniest thing about .40 S&W is ballistically very similar to .41 action express which got introduced all the way back in 1986 but nobody understood wtf it was so it got ignored but then the FBI went 10mm in 1989 but guns were too big for the average user so they downsized to .40 S&W in 1990. But the .41 AE would have been the easy button and was probably the better performer.
That's where I'm at. The only exotic I've got is a USP compact in .357 SIG because I bought it for my dad, because that is the one he wanted and when he passed I got it back. Funniest thing about .40 S&W is ballistically very similar to .41 action express which got introduced all the way back in 1986 but nobody understood wtf it was so it got ignored but then the FBI went 10mm in 1989 but guns were too big for the average user so they downsized to .40 S&W in 1990. But the .41 AE would have been the easy button and was probably the better performer.
I thought the FBI went to the G22/23 40 S&W in 1997/98ish?
NYH1.
ViniVidivici
05-09-24, 00:44
No, they were running .40 Glocks all through the 90s.
Right on dude, .41AE brings back memories of the Jericho 941. Cool concept.
My scores are better, I'm faster, and greater capacity of ammo. Every edge I can get matters.
You have to be faster and have more rounds is what I'm seeing time and time again in these body cam vids. The cops are making up for a lack of caliber with volume of fire. I'm sure many of the wounds are eventually fatal injuries, but the small caliber is buying time for the bad guy.
Maybe if we had as many body cam vids in the 40 cal days it would be the same. I don't know. But I do see that 9mm is like that bad dream you have where your punches don't hurt your attacker.
That's where I'm at. The only exotic I've got is a USP compact in .357 SIG because I bought it for my dad, because that is the one he wanted and when he passed I got it back. Funniest thing about .40 S&W is ballistically very similar to .41 action express which got introduced all the way back in 1986 but nobody understood wtf it was so it got ignored but then the FBI went 10mm in 1989 but guns were too big for the average user so they downsized to .40 S&W in 1990. But the .41 AE would have been the easy button and was probably the better performer.
Yea .41 AE needed better advertising.
No, they were running .40 Glocks all through the 90s.
Right on dude, .41AE brings back memories of the Jericho 941. Cool concept.
.40 sucks through a Glock, unless it's a 10 mm Glock, or full size with a light attached
. Not as bad as a Beretta 96, though.
When I tried it 20 years later in a PX4 and M&P and reloaded it I became a fan.
ViniVidivici
05-09-24, 13:00
You have to be faster and have more rounds is what I'm seeing time and time again in these body cam vids. The cops are making up for a lack of caliber with volume of fire. I'm sure many of the wounds are eventually fatal injuries, but the small caliber is buying time for the bad guy.
Maybe if we had as many body cam vids in the 40 cal days it would be the same. I don't know. But I do see that 9mm is like that bad dream you have where your punches don't hurt your attacker.
No, what's going on is the idiot cops are making up for poor shot placement with volume of fire.
Notice the trend of late....more good cops have quit the job (for all the obvious reasons of today), and more and more assbrains are being hired to replace them.
Look at all the screaming Karen's & Chad's with badges these days gunning down folks by mistake. Every. Damn. Day it seems, you read the stories.
So if these dumbasses can't even read an adress, I don't expect them to be demonstrating professionalism in their shooting either.
You have to be faster and have more rounds is what I'm seeing time and time again in these body cam vids. The cops are making up for a lack of caliber with volume of fire. I'm sure many of the wounds are eventually fatal injuries, but the small caliber is buying time for the bad guy.
Maybe if we had as many body cam vids in the 40 cal days it would be the same. I don't know. But I do see that 9mm is like that bad dream you have where your punches don't hurt your attacker.
Folks love to talk about "being faster" but for some it ends up being faster misses. "17+2 in the mag and I'm gonna use 'em!" guys will burn through it no matter how many are in there.
It's difficult to be "Too accurate". Only if you spend too much time say, getting the bullet into a 1" circle when a 4" circle in half the time will do. But it's easy to shoot too fast and you can do it with any cartridge.
Trying to train fire rate discipline has always been an issue.
Perhaps the idea was it would be easier to teach such discipline with 9mm? If it was, it hasn't worked.
But that wasn't the reason. The reason is because the ammo costs less and it's easier to keep a poor shooter inside the lines. A good, discipline shooter probably won't need round #19 and #20, and may have dropped the BG with fewer rounds than what he did fire and faster if shot wider, deeper bullets.
No, what's going on is the idiot cops are making up for poor shot placement with volume of fire.
Notice the trend of late....more good cops have quit the job (for all the obvious reasons of today), and more and more assbrains are being hired to replace them.
Look at all the screaming Karen's & Chad's with badges these days gunning down folks by mistake. Every. Damn. Day it seems, you read the stories.
So if these dumbasses can't even read an adress, I don't expect them to be demonstrating professionalism in their shooting either.
You're right about that.
But we're getting into what might be better for cops.
I'm into having what's best for me.
No, what's going on is the idiot cops are making up for poor shot placement with volume of fire.
Very well could be. And there's a time and place to dump the mag. Saw one female officer that button hooked around and had to go thru the passenger side window. She appropriately put about 9 rounds into the threat.
Folks love to talk about "being faster" but for some it ends up being faster misses. "17+2 in the mag and I'm gonna use 'em!" guys will burn through it no matter how many are in there.
The old "Shoot fast... Miss Fast!" I read LAV used to use that expression.
Thanks to both of you for entertaining the notion without emotional collapse and hurt feelings.
I thought the FBI went to the G22/23 40 S&W in 1997/98ish?
NYH1.
They picked up the MP5/40 earlier than that but I was still off by a few years.
They picked up the MP5/40 earlier than that but I was still off by a few years.
Do it MKE! I dare ya!
I have a good Turk AP5P. I bet I'd like it even more in .40 with LRBH, if good mags are available.
Very well could be. And there's a time and place to dump the mag. Saw one female officer that button hooked around and had to go thru the passenger side window. She appropriately put about 9 rounds into the threat.
The old "Shoot fast... Miss Fast!" I read LAV used to use that expression.
Thanks to both of you for entertaining the notion without emotional collapse and hurt feelings.
No problem!
Mag dumps at 5 yds and .2 splits? Sure!
Mag dumps on a running target 30 yards away in low light with the same .2s splits? Yea that's bad.
I know what you're talking about is beyond that. BG's getting hit multiple times and still fighting.
I still have my old G23, which was my primary carry gun for years. I've largely switched to 9mm, but I like having a .40 just to diversify on ammo in the event 9mm becomes hard to come by again. I wouldn't buy a new one just for cost factor.
BuzzinSATX
05-09-24, 18:12
If I didn’t have a G23-4, and I was wanting to add a .40 just to have one, the LEO trade ins are the way to go. I’ve never heard of anyone getting a bad one…and Glock will still warranty them if there is a problem:
https://aimsurplus.com/products/leo-trade-in-glock-22-gen-4-40sw-handgun
$279 ain’t a bad deal…
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I've had to guard many a bad guy at the hospital who got into a gunfight with cops and got blasted with 40 and 45s. I've also see plenty of people get dropped by 9mm. I've never seen bigger bullets make up.for bad shot placement and I've never seen good shot placement not work. Even with FMJ and smaller calibers, shots to the A zone are very effective.
Pretty much universally our officers have shot more accurately when they switched from 40 to 9mm. Going from 15 round mags to 17 round mags hasn't made them become spray and pray goons. Plenty of dudes panicked and mag dumped with the 40s too.
Bulldog7972
05-10-24, 07:42
No, what's going on is the idiot cops are making up for poor shot placement with volume of fire.
Notice the trend of late....more good cops have quit the job (for all the obvious reasons of today), and more and more assbrains are being hired to replace them.
Look at all the screaming Karen's & Chad's with badges these days gunning down folks by mistake. Every. Damn. Day it seems, you read the stories.
So if these dumbasses can't even read an adress, I don't expect them to be demonstrating professionalism in their shooting either.
The news media must be omitting that from their broadcasts in my area because I haven't seen all these shootings you are talking about.
If I didn’t have a G23-4, and I was wanting to add a .40 just to have one, the LEO trade ins are the way to go. I’ve never heard of anyone getting a bad one…and Glock will still warranty them if there is a problem:
https://aimsurplus.com/products/leo-trade-in-glock-22-gen-4-40sw-handgun
$279 ain’t a bad deal…
DAMN! That's a hell of a price. I was looking at an HK P30L, but I may scoop one of these up. Scratch that. I grabbed one.
I've had to guard many a bad guy at the hospital who got into a gunfight with cops and got blasted with 40 and 45s. I've also see plenty of people get dropped by 9mm. I've never seen bigger bullets make up.for bad shot placement and I've never seen good shot placement not work. Even with FMJ and smaller calibers, shots to the A zone are very effective.
Pretty much universally our officers have shot more accurately when they switched from 40 to 9mm. Going from 15 round mags to 17 round mags hasn't made them become spray and pray goons. Plenty of dudes panicked and mag dumped with the 40s too.
Your opinion on the notion carries a lot of weight. I'll chalk it up to the fact that we just get way more shooting footage than in the 40 cal days. That said, I'm still enjoying the 40 cal again. A buddy offered to loan me his die set, so I may crank out some reloads during the summer heat this year.
I still like the 40 and I own quite a few pistols in that caliber.
I almost never carry anymore, but on the off chance that I do, it's generally an old G27 or 442. Mega-cap 9's bore me. Whatever...It's all for the lulz anyway.
I still like the 40 and I own quite a few pistols in that caliber.
I almost never carry anymore, but on the off chance that I do, it's generally an old G27 or 442.
I rarely "carry", but I bring my pistol and leave it in the truck. Occasionally carry on the dog walk.
Mega-cap 9's bore me. Whatever...It's all for the lulz anyway.
Same here. Pappabear was like "Buy a G19!". I'm like why? I'd shoot it once and never bring it out again. We already have every 9mm pistol on the planet. I want to shoot the men's division again for a while.
BuzzinSATX
05-10-24, 11:03
DAMN! That's a hell of a price. I was looking at an HK P30L, but I may scoop one of these up. Scratch that. I grabbed one.
Your opinion on the notion carries a lot of weight. I'll chalk it up to the fact that we just get way more shooting footage than in the 40 cal days. That said, I'm still enjoying the 40 cal again. A buddy offered to loan me his die set, so I may crank out some reloads during the summer heat this year.
I know the Gen 4’s take a lot of grief, but I like them. Their finish is, IMO, the best Glock did. I know they had an ejection issue but I only experienced it in one G21 and Glock ended up taking it back and replacing it for me.
A few years back, I used to shoot Steel Challenge matches and one of the old timers shot a G22. He loved shooting low power .40’s and said with his arthritis, loading .40 was much easier than 9MM and cheaper than .45. I thought that made a lot of sense….
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I know the Gen 4’s take a lot of grief, but I like them. Their finish is, IMO, the best Glock did.
For the price, I'll risk it. As long as the brass isn't hitting my head, I'm good. I already have the mags and holsters, so there's no extra purchases to get rolling.
The news media must be omitting that from their broadcasts in my area because I haven't seen all these shootings you are talking about.
Check out the "Police Activity" YouTube channel.
Many years of Police shooting videos there. Some very professional work, and plenty of WTF?! to be seen.
I had .40 for like a minute, but always felt it was a solution in search of a problem. I found I shot better with 9mm or .45, and .40 didn't last long with me.
For the price, I'll risk it. As long as the brass isn't hitting my head, I'm good. I already have the mags and holsters, so there's no extra purchases to get rolling.
I don't think there is any way to know until you fire it.
I've had Glocks in 9mm, .357, .40, .45 acp, .45 Gap, and 10mm pelt me in the face with brass ranging from occasional to constant.
The last new Glock I bought was a Gen 4 G30. The brass cut my forehead and I thought it might become a scar but it didn't. That was the last straw.
Later a borrowed a G38 .45 gap because I could "try before I buy". More cases in the face. Gave it back of course.
Gen 5's have a cut in the breach face to control extraction more positively. I read it generally does but I haven't fired one. Gen 5 introduced a couple new issues, too.
There is no reason to suffer Glocks when there are so many alternatives. It's become the old model VW Beetle to me.
I had .40 for like a minute, but always felt it was a solution in search of a problem. I found I shot better with 9mm or .45, and .40 didn't last long with me.
The problem was people wanted a more powerful cartridge like .45, didn't want to sacrifice much capacity, and wanted it to fit in 9mm-sized guns.
.40 does that. It's a "problem solver". ;)
The problem was people wanted a more powerful cartridge like .45, didn't want to sacrifice much capacity, and wanted it to fit in 9mm-sized guns.
.40 does that. It's a "problem solver". ;)
Big time. I can't shoot 45 fast like I can 40. And the good capacity is a big plus over 45, although I still offload a few rounds on the G22 mags. I tried a FN 45, but it was just too big for my hand, and I could never get a confident grip on faster draws from holster.
I don't think there is any way to know until you fire it.
<snip>
There is no reason to suffer Glocks when there are so many alternatives. It's become the old model VW Beetle to me.
I agree... at full retail price, there's no way I'd buy another glock. But for $300, I'll gamble.
I agree... at full retail price, there's no way I'd buy another glock. But for $300, I'll gamble.
I bought my new S&W M&P 2.0 .40 Compact a few weeks ago for $399 + FFL fee. Came with night sights & 3 mags. Not even leo price.
It runs on my reloads of a 180 gr coated bullet loaded to under 850 fps and Underwood 155 gr XTP's that clock over 1200 fps from the 4 in. barrel.
My full size 2.0 .45 has eaten bare lead flat-nosed bullets until the feed ramp / frame area was covered in a thick layer of sticky lead. I don't know how it still fed the cartridges like that!
Never a stoppage, accurate, and never throw a case at me.
Less recoil than Glocks, too. I presume because there is just a little more weight in the frame, being metal-lined.
Not a S&W fan but the M&P 2.0's don't get the credit they deserve.
ViniVidivici
05-10-24, 14:25
Just the one gen4 here, G19.
Gotta say, love the grip. Better than gen 2 or 3. I've done a grip rediction/stiple on the G19H (gen3) I carry now, to approximate it.
No BTF issue with my gen 4, only observation is brass lands in a neater pile, closer by (dual spring RSA will do that, I guess, I like it), and often the very last case will flip out over the front of the gun. But none to the face, in any shooting position.
Gen 5? No thanks, no want for ambi slide release, and hate the Marksman barrel. Bought one of those barrels, wouldn't fully chamber some of my ammo ( ammo that's just fine in EVERY 9mm we own) due to a tight, short leade.
Sold it REAL fast.
I’m good with .40 overall and still use it. For me, 40 was good in some guns but not so in others. I talking comfort wise, not reliability or accuracy so purely subjective. I didn’t like the Beretta 96, HK USP, Sig 226, Sig 320 any size or iteration, FNP/ FNS in 40. Glocks, M&Ps, HK P30& VP 40, Sig 229, S&W 3rd Gen are all good to go for me at least. I have a friend who loves his 1911 in .40 & for the life of me can’t remember who makes it!
Not a S&W fan but the M&P 2.0's don't get the credit they deserve.
I've only ran the M&P in 45 acp. Was a good pistol, but I never loved it.
I was eyeing an HK P30L in 40 cal, but not til after summer for a full priced pistol.
I've only ran the M&P in 45 acp. Was a good pistol, but I never loved it.
I was eyeing an HK P30L in 40 cal, but not til after summer for a full priced pistol.
2.0 is substantially better IMO then the 1.0. The 2.0 trigger is "crunchy" but eventually breaks in nicely and becomes smooth with a predictable wall, then quickly and predictably lightens to
the break.
I love the texture. It comes a little too rough. Then you take sandpaper to it and rub lightly only in the places you want to. Doesn't look any different where you do so and it's customized to your liking.
Good to know. If I stick with the 40 for a while, I'll check one out.
BuzzinSATX
05-10-24, 20:38
For the price, I'll risk it. As long as the brass isn't hitting my head, I'm good. I already have the mags and holsters, so there's no extra purchases to get rolling.
I just don’t see much risk. You can get $350 for the gun all day long from a local buyer if you don’t like it.
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I use to carry my Gen4.23 up until getting a Sig X Macro a few months ago.
The Dumb Gun Collector
05-13-24, 22:44
I went to a local gunshop and I was shocked to see that there was nearly twice as much space dedicated to 10mm as .40. If you would have told me that in 2005 I would have thought you were smoking crack.
I have two .40 that I never shoot. But a buddy of mine picked up a HK USP .40 Tactical used this weekend and it was a real fun shooter. I was recently tempted by a Px4 full size in .40 I was thinking about setting up Langdon style with a compensator.
I went to a local gunshop and I was shocked to see that there was nearly twice as much space dedicated to 10mm as .40. If you would have told me that in 2005 I would have thought you were smoking crack.
I have two .40 that I never shoot. But a buddy of mine picked up a HK USP .40 Tactical used this weekend and it was a real fun shooter. I was recently tempted by a Px4 full size in .40 I was thinking about setting up Langdon style with a compensator.
Honestly, .40 S&W isn't a bad round in and of itself. I am definitely not crazy about Glock .40s and their unsupported chambers (although I think that got corrected by Gen 4), that is specifically a firearm issue. The only other problem I have with .40s is they tend to be a little snappy in lightweight polymer frame guns. So it's almost like shooting combat magnums, I'm slower and it's harder to get things back on target.
What is amazing to me is while 1911's in .38 Super are very popular, for some reason the .40 S&W 1911 never seemed to happen despite the fact that it would probably make an ideal carry gun, especially for those inclined towards a 1911.
But a buddy of mine picked up a HK USP .40 Tactical used this weekend and it was a real fun shooter.
I was eyeing a USP 40. But the P30L caught my eye. It's 3/4 the price, and Pappabear said he preferred the P30L over the USP.
Honestly, .40 S&W isn't a bad round in and of itself. I am definitely not crazy about Glock .40s and their unsupported chambers (although I think that got corrected by Gen 4), that is specifically a firearm issue. The only other problem I have with .40s is they tend to be a little snappy in lightweight polymer frame guns. So it's almost like shooting combat magnums, I'm slower and it's harder to get things back on target.
What is amazing to me is while 1911's in .38 Super are very popular, for some reason the .40 S&W 1911 never seemed to happen despite the fact that it would probably make an ideal carry gun, especially for those inclined towards a 1911.
You're correct except maybe about the 1911.
It seems 1911's run better on the cartridge length they were designed for like .45, .38 Super, and 10mm.
40 is short like 9x19. Additionally, a typical flush 1911 mag can hold 8 rds of .45 and 9 rds of 9x19 or .38. So I'll bet it could only hold 8 rds of .40. Not much to be gained and a 10mm might run more reliably and can be loaded down a tad to .40 spec.
I can't speak for the 2011. Don't know much about it. Seems like they've put the emphasis on making them work as a 9mm though.
I can't speak for the 2011. Don't know much about it. Seems like they've put the emphasis on making them work as a 9mm though.
The 2011 is still a cluster. I'm still not getting how they got such a high trouble free round count for the US Marshalls or whatever.. I've never seen one that didn't have some sort of issues. Springs, Followers, this mag, that mag.
Perhaps if you just bought a Staccato and had a nun hit your knuckles with a ruler every time to tried to run a mag or gizmo that didn't come in the original box, you'd be fine.
The 2011 is still a cluster. I'm still not getting how they got such a high trouble free round count for the US Marshalls or whatever.. I've never seen one that didn't have some sort of issues. Springs, Followers, this mag, that mag.
Perhaps if you just bought a Staccato and had a nun hit your knuckles with a ruler every time to tried to run a mag or gizmo that didn't come in the original box, you'd be fine.
Thanks!
So many in the industry trying to make 9x19 the only pistol cartridge.
I'll bet it wets the pants of Vista thinking, "If only we could get all of our customers to agree we only need to produce and sell about 3 handgun cartridges and handguns! .22lr, 9x19, and .44 magnum. Oh, think of the profits!"
Ever heard of .38 Super Comp & .38 Super TJ? Starline makes both.
It's .38 Super but rimless and one has more extractor area to increase full-length resizing.
Perhaps the 2011 would run better on that like a 1911?
As for me, I'm about to give up my effort of having a striker pistol with thumb safety. My M&P 2.0 Compact .40.
I've been drawing and drawing to retrain myself to do the safety sweep. I've got that and would get more used to it. Once I found the safety on after carrying in public. Got clicked on somehow. But I clicked it off on the draw. (Practicing a cold draw later at home)
Unfortunately I've also clicked the safety "On" on the draw as my support hand came onto the grip. And I just find the safety is just in the damn way of my high grip, even with my thumb resting on it.
I'm going to remove the safety. Isn't hard.
Carrying the 2.0 .45 (no thumb safety) until I remove it from the Compact .40 and fire it to be sure all is well.
Turns out the only fresh .45 acp carry ammo I have is Gen 2 185 gr 900 fps (from my chronograph this gun) Silvertips.
Not great, not terrible. Light recoil though.
I was eyeing a USP 40. But the P30L caught my eye. It's 3/4 the price, and Pappabear said he preferred the P30L over the USP.
Ergos are key for me. I have a USP .40 and while it shoots nice, the snappier recoil wouldn’t be as noticeable if it fit my hand better. If you have larger mitts it may be fine but the P30L is a better fit for me.
To note I know the VP40 is built heavier than the VP9. I would assume the P30 are also but I’m not sure.
Ergos are key for me. I have a USP .40 and while it shoots nice, the snappier recoil wouldn’t be as noticeable if it fit my hand better. If you have larger mitts it may be fine but the P30L is a better fit for me.
To note I know the VP40 is built heavier than the VP9. I would assume the P30 are also but I’m not sure.
Just fyi, the M&P 2.0 .40 & .45 slide are the same width & height. That's partially why the 2.0 .40 shoots as well.
You're correct except maybe about the 1911.
It seems 1911's run better on the cartridge length they were designed for like .45, .38 Super, and 10mm.
40 is short like 9x19. Additionally, a typical flush 1911 mag can hold 8 rds of .45 and 9 rds of 9x19 or .38. So I'll bet it could only hold 8 rds of .40. Not much to be gained and a 10mm might run more reliably and can be loaded down a tad to .40 spec.
I can't speak for the 2011. Don't know much about it. Seems like they've put the emphasis on making them work as a 9mm though.
I was just thinking a heavier frame gun would make the .40 a lot nicer to shoot. But yeah every time you need to come up with a new magazine solution, you open the door for all kinds of problems.
but the P30L is a better fit for me.
I'm leaning heavy toward the P30L. Was the factory trigger decent? I've shot Pappabears 9mm, but he often mods triggers and stuff.
I'm leaning heavy toward the P30L. Was the factory trigger decent? I've shot Pappabears 9mm, but he often mods triggers and stuff.
It depends. I have dry fired P30 DA/SA and the long heavy pull from hammer down is brutal! I own the LEM which is the closest to striker fire and it’s great. If I were going to carry a P30, if I couldn’t get an LEM it would have to be a model with a safety and I’d carry cocked and locked.
https://aimsurplus.com/products/leo-trade-in-glock-22-gen-4-40sw-handgun
$279 ain’t a bad deal…
I was poking around Aim's site and noticed the Gen 2 G22, in worse finish condition is $70 more.
I use/used 40 S&W for my game guns. Little bigger bullet for those "break the perf" misses and loaded to minor power factor in my G35 is like shooting a 22lr. When you suck as bad as I do any edge over the younger/faster shooting buds is welcome.
It depends. I have dry fired P30 DA/SA and the long heavy pull from hammer down is brutal! I own the LEM which is the closest to striker fire and it’s great. If I were going to carry a P30, if I couldn’t get an LEM it would have to be a model with a safety and I’d carry cocked and locked.
Some of you guys would never have survived the old Colt Official Police revolvers. I can fire a P30 DA long pull trigger all day and it's a dream compared to some of the things I've shot. I was 9 years old shooting a Ruger Security Six as my regular range gun.
I was eyeing a USP 40. But the P30L caught my eye. It's 3/4 the price, and Pappabear said he preferred the P30L over the USP.
The P30's are more ergonomic and adjustable to your hands than the USP. The USP feels sort of like a brick in comparison, both are quite robust however and generally very reliable.
I got that Aim Surplus Gen 4 G22 yesterday. Curiously, the foam in the original Glock box was totally deteriorated and falling apart and kind of sticky. Some of it was sticking to the pistol. I didn't get a pick of the mess because it was too nasty NOT to clean up immediately. All of the foam had to be trashed, and I had to sweep up and vacuum the area where I was working. Weird.
The gun had the mag catch set for a left handed h0m0. So I had to learn how to fix that since I'm the only remaining gun owner in American who ISN'T a certified Glock Armorer.:sarcastic:
The slide has finish wear from holster and being laid on a concrete shooting bench. I detail stripped the slide and it didn't appear to have had many rounds based on the lack of carbon in the firing pin and extractor holes. The gun was filthy from imbecilic storage, but it seems to have been from a department with low training budget allocation. Night sights are about 50% glow. If the gun runs well, I'll put good target sights on it.
I'll add a pic later in case anyone is interested.
I got that Aim Surplus Gen 4 G22 yesterday. Curiously, the foam in the original Glock box was totally deteriorated and falling apart and kind of sticky. Some of it was sticking to the pistol. I didn't get a pick of the mess because it was too nasty NOT to clean up immediately. All of the foam had to be trashed, and I had to sweep up and vacuum the area where I was working. Weird.
The gun had the mag catch set for a left handed h0m0. So I had to learn how to fix that since I'm the only remaining gun owner in American who ISN'T a certified Glock Armorer.:sarcastic:
The slide has finish wear from holster and being laid on a concrete shooting bench. I detail stripped the slide and it didn't appear to have had many rounds based on the lack of carbon in the firing pin and extractor holes. The gun was filthy from imbecilic storage, but it seems to have been from a department with low training budget allocation. Night sights are about 50% glow. If the gun runs well, I'll put good target sights on it.
I'll add a pic later in case anyone is interested.
I didn't think a Tennifer G3 G22 could rust until I examined some Police issued ones...:blink:
I didn't think a Tennifer G3 G22 could rust until I examined some Police issued ones...:blink:
I wonder how they got them to rust. Bad storage probably.
I wonder how they got them to rust. Bad storage probably.
Getting out of cold office or car into hot, humid air. Condensation plus never wiping it off or keeping a little oil on it.
Here's that Gen 4 PD trade in below my old Gen 2:
https://i.imgur.com/26qORGu.jpg
I'm most certainly enjoying the old 40 cal round again.
Got some Chrono data from PMC Bronze 165 and 180 grain ammo. 1010 fps and 957 fps respectively. Not bad.
The Police gun runs great, but the trigger is far from smoothed out. I was getting high and left POI regularly. I A/B'd it against my old G22 and that gun shot POA/POI for me.
Here's the beast in the old Iraqgunz modded Safariland holster.
https://i.imgur.com/zN2UHhW.jpg
BuzzinSATX
05-19-24, 23:03
I know the common answer is to “shoot a couple thousand rounds and the trigger will be great…”
Maybe…but I’ve been very happy with the Glock Performance Trigger for under $100…seriously good upgrade…
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Post 110,
That "Gen2" appears to be a Gen3, not a Gen2.
BuzzinSATX
05-19-24, 23:09
I didn't think a Tennifer G3 G22 could rust until I examined some Police issued ones...:blink:
Okay, full disclosure, I like and respect cops…most I know are good people. I know lots of folks here are LEO and my genuine thanks for what y’all do. But many of them (this board not withstanding) are not really gun people…that factoid kinda amazed me.
I’d buy a Glock LEO trade in without reservations because I know that Glock would warranty them, not because I know how well cops take care of them…
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Post 110,
That "Gen2" appears to be a Gen3, not a Gen2.
You could be right. I think the lack of any issues with the gun and how long I've had it, I may have assumed it to be a 2.
titsonritz
05-20-24, 18:52
You could be right. I think the lack of any issues with the gun and how long I've had it, I may have assumed it to be a 2.
Gen 2 don’t have the light rail or finger grooves. Gen 3s we’re solid performers
Gen 2 don’t have the light rail or finger grooves. Gen 3s we’re solid performers
I had a Gen 3 G17 that would hit me in the left side of my head with empties. It also malfed from time to time. I sold that sucker. I don't think this 40 has ever malfed.
When a Glock is throwing hot brass at you it's due to it letting go of the brass before it's fully extracted.
Then it's not properly ejected by the ejector, it just free to be blown out or hit the round beneath it or hit by the slide or whatever randomly.
If the gun doesn't malfunction it's just luck and it will eventually, even if it's a case that pops straight up and drops right back into the action while it's open. Happened to me multiple times, multiple Glocks.
The only pistols I've seen with such a problem are my Beretta pocket pistols. And it's not a malfunction, they simply have no extractor. They run fine. I don't mind getting hit with .22 & .25 cases as much...tiny ya know.
I have never had any of the Glocks or Sigs malfunction. They are 9mm and 45acp. Brass to the face, yes, a few times.
I had 40s long time ago but don’t remember if I had any issues with them or not.
I have never had any of the Glocks or Sigs malfunction. They are 9mm and 45acp. Brass to the face, yes, a few times.
I had 40s long time ago but don’t remember if I had any issues with them or not.
I could live with the occasional brass to head situation. But less than 100 percent reliability was not acceptable. The who bought it from me even mentioned a malf he had at the range. I remember all the prayer fixes that were floating around the forum. Different extractors and combinations of this and that. I was so annoyed the Glock screwed up a perfectly designed pistol.
I could live with the occasional brass to head situation. But less than 100 percent reliability was not acceptable. The who bought it from me even mentioned a malf he had at the range. I remember all the prayer fixes that were floating around the forum. Different extractors and combinations of this and that. I was so annoyed the Glock screwed up a perfectly designed pistol.
I guess one can find a few here and there with an issue, but for the most part, they are super reliable.
I guess one can find a few here and there with an issue, but for the most part, they are super reliable.
I don't know what the failure rate was at that time. But there was ongoing threads on the problem here back then. I think it was specifically the 9mm Glocks. The whole thing just sickened me. I don't know the history of Glock USA, etc. But my gut tells me Glock, like Sig now, got polluted with "American Mediocrity" when they started moving things to America.
Christ. This Gen 4 G22 has factory Glock night sights which are mechanically zeroed, but the thing hits a foot high and left at 45 yards. I have to shoot it of a rest this weekend and configure sights that will be shootable for practice. That's pretty annoying.
Christ. This Gen 4 G22 has factory Glock night sights which are mechanically zeroed, but the thing hits a foot high and left at 45 yards. I have to shoot it of a rest this weekend and configure sights that will be shootable for practice. That's pretty annoying.
Good luck. I hope you have fun in the process.
Good luck. I hope you have fun in the process.
I will. The gun runs good, so that's great. If I dial the POI in, I'll shoot the heck out of it.
I will. The gun runs good, so that's great. If I dial the POI in, I'll shoot the heck out of it.
[emoji1303][emoji1303]
Definitely 9mm over .40 for all the reasons already discussed in this thread, but I'm a big believer in having options. I remember not too many years ago when 9mm was wildly overpriced or out of stock everywhere, I bought several cases of .40 and it's still on a shelf in the basement. Did move on from some guns though; kept a stainless slide USP compact and a homebrew Glock. A few years ago I was bitten by the poly80 bug pretty badly, I ended up building a few, and one I built into G23 type with a bunch of aftermarket parts. Shot it enough to break it in and make it cycle reliably, and I think it's been in the safe ever since, but I like the idea that if I ever have to relocate professionally to a left coast state, the USP is on the roster (IIRC), and I can have the frankengun just for range play.
BuzzinSATX
05-23-24, 06:50
I will. The gun runs good, so that's great. If I dial the POI in, I'll shoot the heck out of it.
Not much you can do about the height, but check that alignment of the rear sight.
If you aren’t putting a dot on it, these are a good low cost option…
https://www.amazon.com/Glock-Perfection-Adjustable-Sight-Models/dp/B0047T2VIY
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Not much you can do about the height, but check that alignment of the rear sight.
If you aren’t putting a dot on it, these are a good low cost option…
https://www.amazon.com/Glock-Perfection-Adjustable-Sight-Models/dp/B0047T2VIY
Ameriglo has a good selection of different height front sights. I just need to shoot it off the rest to get a calculation of which one I need.
That Amazon link is and interesting cheap option. Thanks.
I banged the rear sight all the way to the right in the dove tail and shot the pistol again today. Windage is good, and it's only 2-3" high at 25 yards. So I'm leaving it as-is.
Interesting comment from junior. He shot this 40 cal today. Had to slow down and mind his fundamentals, and he felt that it made him shoot the 9mm better. I'd always thought the opposite... 9mm is a practice round for full power pistol shooting, but maybe he's onto something.
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