View Full Version : Anyone still using a DA/SA pistol?
I don’t think I’m alone in that I’ve mostly transitioned to striker fired pistols as my primary working tools. I still really enjoy some classic DA guns like Berettas and Sigs, but they are mostly now just range blasters for me. Practically, I fully get all the advantages of the modern Glock/320/etc, but I also don’t have that many complaints about classic Sigs, HKs, or Berettas. I’m curious to see who is still holding out from the striker fired models and rocking an old school DA/SA sidearm.
Started with M&P's then moved to walthers (P99-PPQ etc) after shooting buddies glocks etc for years. Then bought a p229 and started using that for everything (cary, USPSA etc) after dropping a bunch of Gray guns parts into it. Prefer it to striker fired by a mile. Picked up a 226X5 last month for gun games. Buddy who was shooting P320's moved to CZ Shadow 2 after years of striker fired. Seen more striker to SA or SA/DA movement from friends in the last few years than the other way around.
Obtuse question, define "working tool" if you're LE fine, I get it. But in most cases you're carrying what they tell you to carry.
I own, carry and use both and don't see that changing.
I find the term range toy over used. Most any and all shooting, except on a 2 way range is range shooting therefore you could classify nearly anything as a range toy.
ETA: They certainly don't make these with Strikers and I carry one often. Its good to be adaptable.
https://hkguns.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-10/p112333638-5.jpg
DA/SA is what got me comfortable to carry with one in the chamber; knowing I had the safety of the long DA first pull, but the option to cock the hammer for that first shot if possible.
I carry a P239 specifically for the DA/SA aspect of it. I shoot it a lot at the range. It shoots really well and has light recoil.
Also, my Beretta 92 and P226 DA/SA will always be in my safe and rotated in as what I'll grab for bump in the night.
eta:
Carrying my P239 is pretty much how I became comfortable to carry strikers with one in the chamber nowadays. My P239 will always have a place in my heart. And despite its weight, in a good holster, it really just flattens out and feels like nothing more than a pancake inside my waist band. There are definitely options that carry easier and have more capacity than the P239, but not with the DA/SA option and the sweet shootability of the P239.
Sure.
I'm a fan of the Beretta PX4. Have one in each cartridge.
And the 80-series Cheetah's in .32.
Big on M&P 2.0's, too.
Got some DA/SA S&W 3rd gens. Sometimes I'll carry the 1066 while hiking/camping.
One More Time
05-10-24, 22:04
I like the 365 for general running around, works out better in the car.
Still use my 229's though with the 365 as a BUG, pretty much stopped carrying 226's and 220's after getting a 229.
My gunbelt is set up for a 226/220
SIG P226
HK 45
HK P30
HK USP
The only striker fire I carry with any regularity would be a HK P7. Have a Glock 19 and 17 but I just don't shoot as well with them as the above so the only time I tend to carry them is as a mud and rain gun.
Obtuse question, define "working tool" if you're LE fine, I get it. But in most cases you're carrying what they tell you to carry.
I own, carry and use both and don't see that changing.
I find the term range toy over used. Most any and all shooting, except on a 2 way range is range shooting therefore you could classify nearly anything as a range toy.
ETA: They certainly don't make these with Strikers and I carry one often. Its good to be adaptable.
https://hkguns.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-10/p112333638-5.jpg
Wheel guns WILL teach you how to shoot. If you can shoot a wheel gun, you can shoot just about anything. Too many shooters go in the other direction, they never learn to use iron sights, they never learn to shoot a DA trigger. If you get them without a RDS and a custom trigger, many can't hit shit.
I just bought a new Sig Sauer P220 Elite 45 ACP, DA/SA. I've only got about 350 rounds through it. Really liking it so far. Probably gonna get a P229 Elite 9mm next.
NYH1.
Gary1911A1
05-11-24, 07:36
I'm a fan of the various CZ 75 pistols. Still have a affection for the original CZ 75 and like shooting my Shadow. I'm still waiting for the prices to come down a little more for the Shadow II Compact. The shape of the backstop allows me tightest grip on a pistol as it's more like making a fist.
I’m more or less a G19 monogamist* that cheats on them sometimes. I love shooting pizza guns and legacy Sigs. I’ve carried all 3, and 1911s, at work. About annually I pull out a 1911a1 for funsies. Also like shooting wheelguns and sometimes carry them….I will say, if you shoot a snubby a couple times a week for a few months, you’ll feel like a freaking superstar when you go back to a G19.
I think that the 92 series are a better “shooting gun”, and the Glock is a better “carrying gun”. A lot of overlap between them. Now that the PX4 can mount a RDS, I think it’s probably the best of both worlds, outside of work requirements. Although, there’s something to be said for the mass of a 92, especially in competition. I sure do wish they’d make a steel M9A1 frame. The Vertec grips feel great in the hand, but the shot timer and targets show that I do better with the humped backstrap. Same with the PX4 and its replaceable ones. And Glocks. And 1911s.
*due to work, though sometimes I’m issued something else like M9 or M17/18. It’s ironic that I’m held to a higher standard when I’m shooting/carrying a Glock than with a M9/17/18. So that’s what I practice with the most.
Yes. I carry an HK45 or 45C every single day in a JMCK AIWB kydex holster.
Wheel guns WILL teach you how to shoot. If you can shoot a wheel gun, you can shoot just about anything. Too many shooters go in the other direction, they never learn to use iron sights, they never learn to shoot a DA trigger. If you get them without a RDS and a custom trigger, many can't hit shit.
Totally agree!
I finally got the Speedbeez kit coming for my 3" Sp101 so I can save range time, and myself. (Summer!) Wife has one we've been using with her .327 LCR and it works great.
Knocking down plates at 25 yds with a DA revolver builds confidence. Then you switch to that striker fired pistol and hits feel almost effortless.
Never liked DA/SA. I like a consistent predictable trigger pull be is DA or SA, but starting with one (DA) that is now SA, is not for me. I'm sure given time and training I could get used to it, I saw no reason to bother.
SeriousStudent
05-11-24, 12:58
I carry Langdon 92 Compact DAO that Ernest did for me a few years back. Before that I carried a Glock Gen2 G19. Every 15 years or so I look around and see if there is anything I should change.
I like the DAO gun as a threat management tool, rather than a gunfighting tool. I'm a civilian, and judged for every time I point a firearm at someone (Aggravated Assault with a Deadly Weapon here in Texas). I'm also responsible for every round I fire, and every single trigger press has to be justified. So I am for a half-second split time, and the Beretta gives me about a .36 to .40 split. Every single round is a decision consciously made.
If I need a gunfighting tool, I'd really like to have something belt-fed with PFC's humping spare barrels and belts for me. Plus a JTAC talking on a radio just behind me.
You can do a lot with brains, training and discipline. I think a lot of people worry about tools, when they should focus more on skill development. Not directed at the OP, just a comment in general.
What makes Ranger Battalions so good? Not James Bond gear, but extremely high standards and rigorous practice.
I carry Langdon 92 Compact DAO that Ernest did for me a few years back. Before that I carried a Glock Gen2 G19. Every 15 years or so I look around and see if there is anything I should change.
I like the DAO gun as a threat management tool, rather than a gunfighting tool. I'm a civilian, and judged for every time I point a firearm at someone (Aggravated Assault with a Deadly Weapon here in Texas). I'm also responsible for every round I fire, and every single trigger press has to be justified. So I am for a half-second split time, and the Beretta gives me about a .36 to .40 split. Every single round is a decision consciously made.
If I need a gunfighting tool, I'd really like to have something belt-fed with PFC's humping spare barrels and belts for me. Plus a JTAC talking on a radio just behind me.
You can do a lot with brains, training and discipline. I think a lot of people worry about tools, when they should focus more on skill development. Not directed at the OP, just a comment in general.
What makes Ranger Battalions so good? Not James Bond gear, but extremely high standards and rigorous practice.
I've found DA cost me an extra .25s until the first shot. Unless I start the trigger pull while the gun is on it's way up and out.
This sorta piggy backs on my 'Anyone still 40 cal' thread. I was eyeballing an HK P30L in 40 cal with the SA/DA version. But had some concerns over proficiency with DA/SA for carry.
Never liked DA/SA. I like a consistent predictable trigger pull be is DA or SA, but starting with one (DA) that is now SA, is not for me. I'm sure given time and training I could get used to it, I saw no reason to bother.
It pisses off the RO's sometimes but I will cock the hammer on the draw with my SIG if the opportunity presents itself.
We have a cajun CZ P07, that sometimes to go to the store I will grab that from the wife's side of the bed. Have a Ruger with a Colt Python barrel on it.
Then it is Glocks, Hi Powers and P7.
Bulldog7972
05-12-24, 08:05
DA/SA is what got me comfortable to carry with one in the chamber; knowing I had the safety of the long DA first pull, but the option to cock the hammer for that first shot if possible.
I carry a P239 specifically for the DA/SA aspect of it. I shoot it a lot at the range. It shoots really well and has light recoil.
Also, my Beretta 92 and P226 DA/SA will always be in my safe and rotated in as what I'll grab for bump in the night.
eta:
Carrying my P239 is pretty much how I became comfortable to carry strikers with one in the chamber nowadays. My P239 will always have a place in my heart. And despite its weight, in a good holster, it really just flattens out and feels like nothing more than a pancake inside my waist band. There are definitely options that carry easier and have more capacity than the P239, but not with the DA/SA option and the sweet shootability of the P239.
Same here. I own several Glocks and really like them. But I keep going back to my 239 for off duty carry. I put a SRT and an Armory Craft flat trigger in mine and it is a fantastic gun for those two reasons as well as the reasons you mentioned.
I carry Langdon 92 Compact DAO .
What holster do you carry it in?
I carry Langdon 92 Compact DAO that Ernest did for me a few years back..
I'm totally jealous! Maybe one of these days I'll unload some junk and buy something nice...
I still have a place in my heart for DA/SA autos and have several in the collection. I don't carry them ever or really even shoot them that much anymore but I love them all the same.
Renegade04
05-13-24, 06:07
Many of my pistols are DA/SA. Nothing wrong with that at all.
The handgun that I shoot and carry the most is my CZ P01 with a decocker. I originally bought it for appendix carry. When I’m shooting steel for time I usually never notice the difference between sa and da. Also great for dry fire practice. I shoot it better that most striker fired, except HK P7, just not as well as a sao.
It pisses off the RO's sometimes but I will cock the hammer on the draw with my SIG if the opportunity presents itself.
I do the same thing with my old "trusty" FNP !!!!!!
My first semi auto was a Colt 1911, but I actually learned how to shoot (marksmanship and trigger manipulation) on a DA/SA revolver. I shot the same 1911 for 20 years in USPSA and IDPA, achieving B class in USPSA and Expert rating in IDPA. So I can say that I am familiar with the system. Then I tinkered with the striker fired polymer for roughly 10 years shooting IDPA and training, made it to Master class in IDPA. Then I thought I would give the DA/SA pistols a go at it. Made Master in IDPA with a stock Beretta Vertec. My favorite DA/SA now are the CZ P07 (bought for $375 used) and the Beretta LTT Centurion. I shoot the CZ P07 better than custom $3000 1911 in the same caliber.
Recently had a chance to shoot another custom 1911 9mm side by side with the LTT Centurion. Same drill. The accuracy was much better with the custom 1911, speed/time was surprisingly slightly slower. I contributed the slower speed with the lack of trigger time with the 1911s. I don't shoot them much any more, I spend most of my practice and training with TDA and striker guns. The 3.5 lb trigger on the custom 1911 made a tight 4" group at 10 yards (yes Irene, 10 yards) in the -0 zone of the IDPA target shootinng the 5x5 IDPA classifier. We're not talking about slow fire, take your time, one shot at a time, NRA slow fire. There are four draws, one reload, one transition to head shot and one 5 shots strong hand only. The heavy barrel, 4", kept the muzzle flip to a minimum.
The DA/SA Beretta's group at the same distance/drill was still within the 8 inch -0 zone but more spread out. I did have 4 rounds out of the -0. The speed/time was surprisingly much faster.
Shooting from a rested position on a bench, the single action 1911 does make small 1" group vs. maybe 2" with the DA/SA gun.
This is one drill, one day. But I've pretty much produced the same results in several years of practice. I really enjoy shooting DA/SA more now than single action. I guess if I get rid of all my DA/SA pistols (ain't gonna happen) and go back to the 1911 full time, the results would swing the other way.
Concealability - the compact 4" 1911 win hands down. Slim, short and lighter, it disappears in a quality IWB holster while feeling much more comfortable. The chunky grips and heavier Beretta is no fun to carry in an IWB rig, concealing is a challenge. I tried appendix carry with the Beretta like all those cool kids but it doesn't work for me. The CZ P07 is a great size for carry, as it's about the same size as the all time favorite G19 favored by lots of operators (internet and real world).
SeriousStudent
05-27-24, 17:01
What holster do you carry it in?
Sorry for the late response, Sam - I just saw this.
I carry it in a JM Custom Kydex IWB holster that Tony Mayer made for me. Straight drop, full guard, DCC double clip. Works great with my Foundation belts from EDC belt company. Bryan shut down the belt company, but Tony is still making great holsters.
SeriousStudent
05-27-24, 17:06
I'm totally jealous! Maybe one of these days I'll unload some junk and buy something nice...
I still have a place in my heart for DA/SA autos and have several in the collection. I don't carry them ever or really even shoot them that much anymore but I love them all the same.
I have one of the old full-size Vertec's that he did for me a long time ago, along with a pair of PX4's and a pair of 92 Compacts. They are very smooth and work well.
That old Vertec is probably my fave. I took it to a Larry Mudgett class and it did not disappoint.
Sorry for the late response, Sam - I just saw this.
I carry it in a JM Custom Kydex IWB holster that Tony Mayer made for me. Straight drop, full guard, DCC double clip. Works great with my Foundation belts from EDC belt company. Bryan shut down the belt company, but Tony is still making great holsters.
Great, was just wondering. I also have a couple of JM holsters, they're my go-to kydex holsters.
Adrenaline_6
05-28-24, 10:11
I carry a P30 v3, along with a VP9SK. Once I learned to shoot the stock P30 proficiently, triggers aren't really as much an issue. I have since lightened it with a Gray Guns kit and round count has gotten it very smooth, but was it needed? No. More a want than a need.
Thumbing the hammer as you holster has a comforting feel to it. I am way more wary of the VP9Sk when reholstering or putting it in my edc backpack holster setup.
My first semi auto was a Colt 1911, but I actually learned how to shoot (marksmanship and trigger manipulation) on a DA/SA revolver. I shot the same 1911 for 20 years in USPSA and IDPA, achieving B class in USPSA and Expert rating in IDPA. So I can say that I am familiar with the system. Then I tinkered with the striker fired polymer for roughly 10 years shooting IDPA and training, made it to Master class in IDPA. Then I thought I would give the DA/SA pistols a go at it. Made Master in IDPA with a stock Beretta Vertec. My favorite DA/SA now are the CZ P07 (bought for $375 used) and the Beretta LTT Centurion. I shoot the CZ P07 better than custom $3000 1911 in the same caliber.
Recently had a chance to shoot another custom 1911 9mm side by side with the LTT Centurion. Same drill. The accuracy was much better with the custom 1911, speed/time was surprisingly slightly slower. I contributed the slower speed with the lack of trigger time with the 1911s. I don't shoot them much any more, I spend most of my practice and training with TDA and striker guns. The 3.5 lb trigger on the custom 1911 made a tight 4" group at 10 yards (yes Irene, 10 yards) in the -0 zone of the IDPA target shootinng the 5x5 IDPA classifier. We're not talking about slow fire, take your time, one shot at a time, NRA slow fire. There are four draws, one reload, one transition to head shot and one 5 shots strong hand only. The heavy barrel, 4", kept the muzzle flip to a minimum.
The DA/SA Beretta's group at the same distance/drill was still within the 8 inch -0 zone but more spread out. I did have 4 rounds out of the -0. The speed/time was surprisingly much faster.
Shooting from a rested position on a bench, the single action 1911 does make small 1" group vs. maybe 2" with the DA/SA gun.
This is one drill, one day. But I've pretty much produced the same results in several years of practice. I really enjoy shooting DA/SA more now than single action. I guess if I get rid of all my DA/SA pistols (ain't gonna happen) and go back to the 1911 full time, the results would swing the other way.
Concealability - the compact 4" 1911 win hands down. Slim, short and lighter, it disappears in a quality IWB holster while feeling much more comfortable. The chunky grips and heavier Beretta is no fun to carry in an IWB rig, concealing is a challenge. I tried appendix carry with the Beretta like all those cool kids but it doesn't work for me. The CZ P07 is a great size for carry, as it's about the same size as the all time favorite G19 favored by lots of operators (internet and real world).
If you shoot the same drills with the Beretta or the CZ as sao compared to sa/da would you expect speed and accuracy to be any better?
Bulldog7972
06-16-24, 21:32
[QUOTE=matemike;3154668]DA/SA is what got me comfortable to carry with one in the chamber; knowing I had the safety of the long DA first pull, but the option to cock the hammer for that first shot if possible.
I carry a P239 specifically for the DA/SA aspect of it. I shoot it a lot at the range. It shoots really well and has light recoil.
Also, my Beretta 92 and P226 DA/SA will always be in my safe and rotated in as what I'll grab for bump in the night.
eta:
Carrying my P239 is pretty much how I became comfortable to carry strikers with one in the chamber nowadays. My P239 will always have a place in my heart. And despite its weight, in a good holster, it really just flattens out and feels like nothing more than a pancake inside my waist band. There are definitely options that carry easier and have more capacity than the P239, but not with the DA/SA option and the sweet shootability of the P239.[/QUOTE
I started shooting pistols seriously five years ago. Over that time, I've run around 40k through several Beretta 92 variations, which makes up the bulk of my trigger time. I'm familiar with the system, I carry an LTT Centurion that has over half that round count on it, 2/3 of those rounds with a dot. I do have a PX4 or two, and if I were to want to switch to something smaller, I'd send the compact carry slide off for an RDO cut, and order a new holster.
For just printing groups or shooting fairly slow fire, there's not too many pistols I can't pick up and have decent success with, I do have a few holster options for other guns, so in the last few months I've started to pick up some of them just for the sake of gaining more trigger time on other pistols. I do not see myself moving away from DA/SA any time soon, if I were to, it would likely be to a 320 because my wife likes it and carries a 365X.
When I went to the Rangemaster instructor development course in April, I seem to remember Tom specifically stating something about there being no DA guns around, until well into shooting that first day when he realized what I carried. There were 18 of us, I think 2-3 1911/Stacatto type guns, and everything else was some form of striker fired except me. I did earn the first coin of the weekend, and shot a 99 on the qual, so take that for whatever it's worth.
Pretty partial to Glocks after selling off my USP Compacts, but I kept a 228 gifted to me by a good friend. That’s the bedside pistol; whenever I get around to a versa-max IWB for it I’ll carry it with confidence.
In my youth DA/SA was always to be avoided; that is, until I got trained up on it by people who knew what they were doing. I carried a 229 in .357 SIG on duty. The round seemed to beat up the gun but it was the dogs balls for carry. If I had money I’d be totally committed to that round.
turbomunkey
06-18-24, 21:44
Realistically, anything other than a striker fired polymer gun is people playing off of bias, IMO. You can train around a DA/SA trigger, or a thumb safety, or the cumbersome metal pistols, but the point and squeeze interface of Glock style guns is simply the fastest, and arguably more reliable pistol format.
If thats your style, nothing wrong with it.
Realistically, anything other than a striker fired polymer gun is people playing off of bias, IMO. You can train around a DA/SA trigger, or a thumb safety, or the cumbersome metal pistols, but the point and squeeze interface of Glock style guns is simply the fastest, and arguably more reliable pistol format.
If thats your style, nothing wrong with it.
Fastest, you say?
Being retired LE, I've come across several folks who were ex-military or present or retired LE.
If ex/retired military, then the they were trained with Beretta M9 or perhaps SIG P226, M11. Even older retirees may have even been trained with 1911s, but this thread is regarding da/sa handguns.
If present or ex-LE, then Beretta (92 series), SIG (P226, P229), S&W (1st/2nd/3rd gen semiautos), to a lesser extent HK (I don't even know the model numbers); unless the LEOs' departments issued some form of DAO models; many LEOs had stayed with the da/sa issued/approved guns even if transitioning to striker-fired was ok'd.
Some LEOs did use 1911s besides or instead of da/sa or striker-fired; again, the thread is regarding users of da/sa.
~1995, I was issued the S&W 4006, but within a year, transitioned to a G22gen2. Other departments in my area at the time were also issuing the 4006, SIG P226 (some liked the P220 in .45ACP instead), and Beretta 92FS da/sa models. I later bought a SIG P226, even though I was a Glock guy, partially to become familiar with the SIG da/sa which what a neighboring department carried, but I ended up liking it also for an off-duty carry.
More simply, folks had trained with; carried; some personally-owned da/sa pistols and were most comfortable with their trusted sidearms. The da/sa guns are still made; they're still out there; it's good to maintain some degree of proficiency with them.
turbomunkey
06-19-24, 07:09
Fastest, you say?
You dont think thats the case?
You dont think thats the case? I do not. The context in which the pistol is being used will dictate whether that even matters, though. If you have evidence otherwise, I’m all ears.
Realistically, anything other than a striker fired polymer gun is people playing off of bias, IMO. You can train around a DA/SA trigger, or a thumb safety, or the cumbersome metal pistols, but the point and squeeze interface of Glock style guns is simply the fastest, and arguably more reliable pistol format.
If thats your style, nothing wrong with it.
I kind of feel this way. Because Ive used Beretta 92s and P228s for most of my adult life I’m comfortable with them. And I really like 1911s and wheel guns. But when I’m objective and have to ask “What does the M11 give me that the G19 doesn’t,” it gets hard to not go with the Glock. I’d be very confident with a P228 or an M9 if I needed to use one, but the weight and round count needed to get comfortable with the trigger transition is definitely an extra thing to deal with.
I kind of feel this way. Because Ive used Beretta 92s and P228s for most of my adult life I’m comfortable with them. And I really like 1911s and wheel guns. But when I’m objective and have to ask “What does the M11 give me that the G19 doesn’t,” it gets hard to not go with the Glock. I’d be very confident with a P228 or an M9 if I needed to use one, but the weight and round count needed to get comfortable with the trigger transition is definitely an extra thing to deal with.
The G19 is also lighter, less expensive (so more ammo to practice with), and mounts an RDS more easily. Compared to many hammer guns, it also mounts a light more easily. It has a lot going for it, and that puts it in a lot of professional holsters, and in competition, a lot of Carry Optics holsters.
I’ll not knock the Glock. I carry, work, and sometimes compete with them. That was true before of Berettas. And of the M11. And of the 1911a1.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.