View Full Version : Home Alarm Systems
Anyone have any expirence with home alarm systems..I have heard of ADT, APEX, Sonitrol, Brinks, safe touch? I have had a small service for a while however, we had a false alarm and the cops showed up and 15 min. later the alarm co called me and I am 3rd on the list. I would like to hear the good the bad and the scams. I am LE so I am interested what other LEO's are using as well. I live near Central Fl. I would also love the have .... breed of dog that is not what I am looking for. If you do not want to post a response in open forum feel free to pm. Thanks for the help.
Stay safe
S/F
30 cal slut
01-09-09, 17:13
with an alarm system, the most important thing you're buying is the monitoring service.
and that means customer service and response times are critical.
IMO (and take this with a bucket of salt) ... ADT has the worst service (as evidenced by the highest subscriber churn in the industry).
On the other hand, Brink's Home Security reputedly has the best customer service (and the lowest subscriber churn). Note that Brink's is undergoing a name change soon.
Also, anecdotally, you'll see more "ADT sucks" hits on google than you will with "Brink's Home Security Sucks."
Once you've made up your mind about which service provider, then assess your needs. Most advertised "basic" package alarm systems only offer a door sensor, a few windows and a motion detector for the ground floor. Your needs may exceed these basic offerings.
Note that since the alarm company is making a sizeable up-front investment in the alarm system ... (around $1,000 or more even after your down payment) ... you're going to be locked into a monitoring contract for a few years. READ THE FINE PRINT ON THE CONTRACT. Many monitoring contracts have EVERGREEN RENEWAL CLAUSES (watch out for those where they are legal).
Also, you may have to register your alarm system with the town / city police. And don't forget you could get hit with fines for false alarm charges.
Oh yeah, some cities have municipal policies which stipulate that the police WON'T respond to your burglar alarm. So do check.
Good luck.
-slut
30 cal slut
01-09-09, 17:15
p.s.
try to have a POTS for monitoring service. that's plain old telephone service.
why?
they are self-powered.
the new VoIP-compatible boxes work great, but won't work when the power is out.
use the wireless monitoring option (basically a cell phone hooked up to your alarm system) as a BACKUP to POTS.
Thanks for the insight, I have system now but just not happy with the service, and we tried to cancel it 6 months ago. They just sent me another bill saying they never got the letter to cancel. I am through with them.
p.s.
try to have a POTS for monitoring service. that's plain old telephone service.
why?
they are self-powered.
the new VoIP-compatible boxes work great, but won't work when the power is out.
use the wireless monitoring option (basically a cell phone hooked up to your alarm system) as a BACKUP to POTS.
Yep, I had to go with the wireless option since I'm on FIOS. I hear ya about ADT and probably would agree if I didnt have a direct line to a big marketing rep for them who is able to move and shake things.
Littlelebowski
01-10-09, 11:05
Any breed of dog will alert you most likely. If you want a home protection system that will walk with your family and guard them on the street, there is no better choice than a properly raised and exercised German Shepherd.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-10-09, 13:39
If I were going to add the system, I would add in a ire system as well. Tied into your system, if you are ever away from your house and something goes wrong you'll have a much better chance of coming home to something. Plus it lets you focus on getting out of the house, rather than trying to talk on the phone.
Here is a LEO point of view:
For most (not all) applications, a monitoring service is a waste of time and money. By the time we get the call it's far to late for us to do anything.
Get a dialer that will call your cell phone and/or many others when you alarm has been tripped. Some have microphone options where you can hear whats going on in the house. This way you can call us directly cutting our response time down dramatically. If you don't have a land line to your house, there are also cell phone dialers.
Hope this helps.
If I were going to add the system, I would add in a ire system as well. Tied into your system, if you are ever away from your house and something goes wrong you'll have a much better chance of coming home to something. Plus it lets you focus on getting out of the house, rather than trying to talk on the phone.
Please school me on what an ire system is.
Thanks to all who are offering their advice. I am needing a system as well and am listening to all the options and suggestions.
Buckaroo
I'm surprised someone doesn't come up with an email service.
BGs trip the alarm in my house. Instantly, an email goes out with details about time, which alarm(s) was activated, etc. Email goes to me, my wife, my brother, a couple of neighbors ...
This could be in addition to or as an alternative to monitoring.
While I agree with the idea that a dog usually makes a great alarm system, it's no more a panacea than an electrical system. First, my dog barks every day ... so the neighbors aren't going to call the cops just because they hear my dog barking while I'm out. Second, if someone knows you've got a dog, it's not exactly hard to kill a dog quietly and discreetly. If someone tossed a poisoned hamburger over our back fence, our Loki would be DRT.
Littlelebowski
01-10-09, 17:11
A dog is a great backup alarm system and also a secondary protection system. My German Shepherd is usually indoors at night. He also maybe barks once and that's a "I'm gonna mess you up" bark. Having the right breed of dog is a force multiplier. With him indoors at night, I know for certain that he will hear someone long before I will and will instantaneously and fearlessly investigate the noise. The dog will also unhesitatingly die protecting me and my family. That's just how German Shepherds do things, they think of it as their duty and it's second nature. I realize dogs can be easily defeated but if you're trying to get into my house in the dark and a furry self propelled, guided missile is waiting for you, it would be most likely harder than you think to dispatch the dog quietly in the dark. Add another dog into the mix and your problem is exponentially harder.
My dog also doesn't bark all day at nothing :D
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/images20/ChineseCrestedGracyAllGrownUp.JPG
Grrrrrrrrrrrr.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-10-09, 17:20
Please school me on what an ire system is.
Thanks to all who are offering their advice. I am needing a system as well and am listening to all the options and suggestions.
Buckaroo
uck three ways to riday. I can't reaking believe that my "" isn't working.
FFFFFFFFFFFFF there it is.
OR it is a security system to keep out Jamacian Witch doctors. Don't you be invading my house with any of that ire.
Iraq Ninja
03-05-09, 16:08
I'm surprised someone doesn't come up with an email service.
BGs trip the alarm in my house. Instantly, an email goes out with details about time, which alarm(s) was activated, etc. Email goes to me, my wife, my brother, a couple of neighbors ...
I am currently researching security systems and I think uControl.com does use email notification. Their system looks very good...
RealFastV6
03-05-09, 16:24
I am currently researching security systems and I think uControl.com does use email notification. Their system looks very good...
Lots of email options out there.
http://www.control4.com/ is another one.
Control the system from your Phone, etc.
Security and Home Automation have merged.
Nathan_Bell
03-05-09, 16:44
Once you have done the homework on what system you want, and if your LEOs will respond. Find out what their response time is.
ADT installed my system approx 4 years ago right after my house was built. Nice thing was they wired the sensors to all the windows and doors for "free" with a 3 year contract along with 1 control pad downstairs.
Bad thing was the install guy was a dickhead and left drywall mess on the floor everywhere he did a sensor hookup (house was pre-wired during set-up). I called ADT and voiced my displeasure and they sent out a different guy to verify everything was hooked up properly and installed a keypad upstairs for free for voicing my complaints.
I'm not sure about other people's complaints with ADT but they addressed mine and I really recommend installing a keypad by your main entrance door and your master bedroom. I really like the extra peace of mind I have by being able to verify everything's set in the middle of the night without having to get out of bed and it's really convenient as I have a 2 story house.
As far as response times go I've never had a break in so I can't comment on that but the added security I feel at night by knowing an alarm will instantly trigger if someone where to attempt entry is well worth the monthly fee in my opinion.
Maybe it's time to check out different monitoring companies... take care.
Littlelebowski
03-05-09, 18:11
I was kind hoping someone would challenge me on the indoors German Shepherd option. Try to break in and hit me and him with paintball without him snacking on ya or me getting up with weapon in hand :D
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y117/Beamish15/H23%20Campout/IMG_0343.jpg
Iraq Ninja
03-05-09, 18:29
My home dog team consists of what appears to be a cross between a Catahoula and a Mastiff. He is the team leader. His partner is a cross between a Pug and Dachsund. Thats the Alpha team. Bravo is a Chihuahua Dachsund mix, and a pure Boston Bull Terrier. Bravo makes the noise while Alpha attacks.
My home dog team consists of what appears to be a cross between a Catahoula and a Mastiff. He is the team leader. His partner is a cross between a Pug and Dachsund. Thats the Alpha team. Bravo is a Chihuahua Dachsund mix, and a pure Boston Bull Terrier. Bravo makes the noise while Alpha attacks.
lol. My boxer has good ears. He's on things well before I notice it. No idea what he would do if someone got in. I know he protects my wife and daughter well when they go on walks.
K.L. Davis
03-05-09, 19:10
Todd... I am doing some work with monitoring and video surveillance systems that are autonomous or remote operated -- nearly all of these systems will alert you via email or text message, allow you to access the camera via the Internet and some even send you real time pictures to your cell phone or email account.
The technology is not out of reach, or prohibitively expensive...
I'm surprised someone doesn't come up with an email service.
BGs trip the alarm in my house. Instantly, an email goes out with details about time, which alarm(s) was activated, etc. Email goes to me, my wife, my brother, a couple of neighbors ...
This could be in addition to or as an alternative to monitoring.
While I agree with the idea that a dog usually makes a great alarm system, it's no more a panacea than an electrical system. First, my dog barks every day ... so the neighbors aren't going to call the cops just because they hear my dog barking while I'm out. Second, if someone knows you've got a dog, it's not exactly hard to kill a dog quietly and discreetly. If someone tossed a poisoned hamburger over our back fence, our Loki would be DRT.
Iraq Ninja
03-05-09, 19:25
Is it against the law to shoot my neighbor?
Today, as I pull into the driveway after a day at the range, my neighbor pops out of the house. He has a bunch of guys working on his roof (hurricane damage), who are uh, green card challenged to say the least. He shouts out to me "Hey, you got that fancy sniper rifle handy?" Then he proceeds to tell everyone that I am the guy to talk to about guns. My wife freaked, because I am gone nine months out of the year. Thus, I need a security system and a new neighbor...
In regards to control4.com, I have heard mixed reviews in regards to their gear.
i expressly agree with LL on this,, a big dog in the house is WAY better than an electronic alarm. --that said-- i have a house in town, ,,but,, live in my house in the country,, both with an alarm system monitored by a local company, by people that i know. mostly for fire protection if we are away. i have a 70 lb. black-mouth cur that has slept at the foot of my bed here [country] since she was a pup,,, shame on someone's ass if they try to come in my house ,, i also have a 100lb. lab that sleeps in the front,,,covered front and back. fact is, most of the time, i don't set the alarm at night,, why worry???? a booger will get past the electronics LONG before he will my buddies. all their job is to alert me,,i promise i will engage and do the rest. an electronic alarm will give you a little peace of mind when you wake up at 2 a.m. and glance at that red light glowing [i also reccomend putting a keypad in the bedroom, so if it does go off you will know what zone, or where] . the bottom line to me is that EVERYONE knows that folks living in rural mississippi is armed to the max, have vicious dogs, AND get medals from the high-sheriff if they stop a predator at 2a.m. in their home. WE'RE NOT TOTALLY BACK-WARDS, DOWN HERE!!! 'sides,,, you never here of anyone retiring and moving north....
by the way LL, that is a beautiful shepherd you share your place with, i was gonna get another myself, when i found this black-mouth cur that needed a decent home. they are bred for hogs and puma,,"boyz-in-the-hood" is chump-change for them. "come on in,,guys!!!'
I suggest Front Point security.
The monitoring is excellent, quick responses to alarms (ask me how I know! :D ) and total self installation.
The system is totally wireless, easy to install, you have acess to all the advanced configurations of the GE system, and the wireless sensors I have are still on their original batteries 1 1/2 years later. Plus, the system is 100% cellular so no one can cut your phone lines.
We needed a cell service since we have no land line, and only use cell phones.
The system supports X10 modules, has a web interface that you can use to monitor and configure your notifications lists, including E-mail notification, and is easy to use.
The customer support is top notch. I had a bad sensor out of box and they had another one in my hands in 48 hours with a return envelope for the bad one. The tech support guys are knowledgeable and speak English clearly.
So far the system has been totally reliable. It is also an "alarm pending" system which protects you from someone breaking and destroying the panel before the alarm is triggered.
As others have mentioned, an alarm is a part of an overall layer security plan and should not be relied on as your only security measure.
exkc135driver
03-06-09, 11:41
Why ADT sucks ... one example
Several years ago I worked for a local computer manufacturer. We had a state-of-the-(then)-art ADT alarm system. It protected the offices and warehouse and had a cell phone backup in case the main system went down.
So early one Monday morning I get a call from the owner that the place had been burgled and the cops are on the way. Long story short, the bad guys were professional thieves who had hit a number of computer companies in the southeast US and they had totally cleaned our warehouse out. Insurance covered most of it, but we were effectively out of business for a few weeks.
The bad guys were able to defeat both the main ADT system and the backup. Our contract with ADT limited their liability to $10,000.00, so that's what they paid. Their attitude was, "OK, so our system was defeated, but we paid you the 10 grand per the contract, what's your problem?" I vowed then that I would never have an ADT system in my home or office. (I related this story to an ADT rep at a trade show as a reason why I would never do business with his company. He said, hey, give us another chance. I told him he was ****in' stoopid and walked away.)
Other comments ...
The comments so far in this thread seem to mostly be addressed to things that go bump in the night. I think that most on this forum have warning devices such that they would be able to meet a night-time threat with the appropriate response.
But what about daytime? My understanding is that many (most?) residential break-ins occur during the day, which of course is when most of us are at work. IMHO that is when you need an alarm. Unless you are very close to your home when you get the notification, the cops will get there before you do (assuming that your system is set up to notify the local gendarmerie). A barking dog in the house is a fine warning system when you're at home, but personally, if I'm not at home I'd prefer that the cops -- not my dogs -- deal with the prowler/burglar/scumbag.
AFAIC an alarm is useless when I'm home. The dog is a much better early warning system. Second what an alarm does when away is let the criminal know his time is limited and so it serves minimizes losses.
with an alarm system, the most important thing you're buying is the monitoring service.
-slut
I don't agree. IMO, the most important thing is the design of the system. unless you're doing is the "standard 3 and 2" (three doors, two keypads), then you need someone who knows layering.
placement and type of sensors is important. bottom line is you can spend a lot and still not have the same protection as someone who knows what they're doing.
Around here most of the home burglaries happen during the day. I would love to have a dog to keep an eye on things but that is not an option. I would like to hear more or see a post about the phone dialer espically a cable one. One of the draw backs of the home alarms and police response times are the number of false alarms. Home alarms in a big county or city just don't get a lights and siren response. There are too many and it is getting too dangerous to drive lights and sirens to those calls. Most drivers either forgot or just don't bother to pull to the side of the road as required by Florida law. A great number are just stopping in the middle of the road. Anyway it may be better tohave the notification feature so you can call someone close by.
Littlelebowski
03-06-09, 18:10
Do you have a dog?
Is it against the law to shoot my neighbor?
Today, as I pull into the driveway after a day at the range, my neighbor pops out of the house. He has a bunch of guys working on his roof (hurricane damage), who are uh, green card challenged to say the least. He shouts out to me "Hey, you got that fancy sniper rifle handy?" Then he proceeds to tell everyone that I am the guy to talk to about guns. My wife freaked, because I am gone nine months out of the year. Thus, I need a security system and a new neighbor...
In regards to control4.com, I have heard mixed reviews in regards to their gear.
HAMMERDROP
03-08-09, 11:30
I have two of them a Fawn female and a Black and Tan male both trained for obedience and aggression are Canine Good Citizens but Tazz our male is crazier than a shit house rat when it comes to territoriality.
We also have a Brinks home security system which we had installed for C02 and fire protection. But I am the one any intruders or trespassers MUST worry about if they are unfortunate enough to breech any door/window or property line. Outside I would ask trespassers politely to leave...indoors I would politely ask intruders if they want to die ! Then call the police and if they tried any shit their next ride would be to the coroners office. Nobody threatens or intimidates my wife.
Michael
Nathan_Bell
03-08-09, 11:38
Once you have done the homework on what system you want, and if your LEOs will respond. Find out what their response time is.
That was meant to read : See what the local LEO's response time to an alarm is.
Locally, it is pushing an hour.
Mo_Zam_Beek
03-08-09, 15:26
But what about daytime? My understanding is that many (most?) residential break-ins occur during the day, which of course is when most of us are at work. IMHO that is when you need an alarm. Unless you are very close to your home when you get the notification, the cops will get there before you do (assuming that your system is set up to notify the local gendarmerie). A barking dog in the house is a fine warning system when you're at home, but personally, if I'm not at home I'd prefer that the cops -- not my dogs -- deal with the prowler/burglar/scumbag.
< ----- Trips alarms in commercial buildings frequently
I am a commercial real estate broker and I trip alarms in commercial buildings frequently - have for years; and out of all of those events, only once did LE swing by. While it isn't directly applicable here a few of my thoughts:
1. What you are buying REALLY is the service.
2. As for layering of services - they all can do it, it isn't like one of the vendors is the NSA. It is just a matter of money.
3. Audible alarms are like car alarms they go off, people look outside their windows, and if they don't see anything overt they go back to their life. If someone that looks credible steps forward and says everything is under control - they literally forget about it.
4. Regardless of corporate policy on what to do once an alarm is tripped, go meet with the office manager and a few of those that take calls - have a casual conversation and slowly work your way toward that question. If it was me, I'd be looking for the type of people and office mentality that say 'if it isn't on the response procedure list, then I cannot do that'. Even then there are no guarantees.
* The reason I have only had LE come to check things out once - many people can talk their way out of most anything. When I know I have tripped the alarm I find the punch pad and call the number on the sticker, tell them who I am and tell them why I am there. One of three things happens: A. Due to our conversation they give me the code and I disable the alarm using the punch pad. B. Due to our conversation they tell me how to identify the appropriate wires from the power source and I cut them thus disabling the alarm. C. (Most common) Based on our conversation, they allow the alarm to keep going off and either not call LE or call and inform them that the trip is not a break in (for up to 6 hours in one case until I could get the code on my own). Keep in mind these were virtually every nationally known company and a few local companies as well. In all but one or two instances I was not on any kind of an 'approved list' or anything else - I just called them, was confident, and while I was sympathetic to their corporate policies - I had my own agenda and kept after them in a polite and professional manner until I got what I wanted. That is exactly how it works. At the end of the day I manage to get someone on the other end of the phone to believe I am who I say I am (with no real way to verify it) and they want to please me. It is that simple.
Interview the office staff (have some tact, don’t tip your hand that this is a chief concern); be wary of people pleasers.
ETA - the one time LE did arrive - I had already closed and locked the door and was outside nearest my car. I handed them a card (no other ID) had a casual conversation that I was able to quickly segue into something other than situation at hand and then they left.
General Security Note - most people are more than willing to believe the obvious as long as it makes sense.
Dogs on the other hand don't think beyond - I don't know you.
Good luck
...
2. As for layering of services - they all can do it, it isn't like one of the vendors is the NSA. It is just a matter of money....
no they don't. in my experience as a residential and commercial security systems engineer, I can tell you that the average home security system installed is pathetic in terms of actual "protection" and MOST of the upper end systems are laughable in how poorly they were designed.
and if you think the monitoring is the most important part of your, then set all your alarms codes for fire. or maybe medical. you'll actually get someone on the scene more quickly that way. if that means anything.
but one way or another, if someone is fiddling at your point of entry, like in the Brinks commercials, you've already lost 90% of the battle. and whoop-whoop-whoop alarms scare very few perps away once they've gotten that far..
I think alot of this depends on what your trying to prevent and what kind of response your looking for. I also use ADT and am gone most of the year. In my community, the police will respond to the alarm. I have both the land line and cell phone backup with an alarm system UPS. The best I an hope for is to have a unit there just in time to prevent a large scale theft of property.
If they cut my lines and jam the cell phone, I'm probably screwed anyway. I'd hope my neighbors would notice something crazy if that was the case!
There is only so much you can do. In my case, I don't leave things like guns at my house while I'm gone. Furniture is a pain in the ass to move and I don't think they're going to go after my pots and pans. Stereo equipment, TVs and a home computer would be about the extent of the loss at this point and its all about 4 years old at this point.
When I'm there, its mostly about alerting me to the problem. I've set the alarm up so the downstairs has an audible alarm that is near deafening and all windows and doors have individual sensors as well as IR room sensors.
My understanding is that in larger communities, the police response to home security alarms varies greatly by area. Definitely something to look into before proceeding.
Also look into whether you need temperature sensors, water intrusion detection, radon, and carbon monoxide. ADT has a system to detect these other issues as well. Not all alarm systems offer those options. In my case, I'm also concerned about a heating problem in the winter that might end up with frozen/busted pipes. Easy enough to tell when your heat's not working living there--pretty hard from 7K miles away. If I ran out of LP I could be in a world of hurt.
There are also various levels of service from ADT, look into the premier services if your expectations are high.
Don't go with one of the off-the-shelf packages if your looking for complete coverage. Expect to pay well over $1k to do it "right" for a 2000+ sqft home. If you have lots of windows and doors, the price gets hefty rather quickly.
I also recommend putting a security pad in your bedroom, you might not hear the information from downstairs or another part of the house. Plus this gives you the opportunity to lock down every other room in the house almost as if your away and lets the IR sensors assist. (Its easier to defeat the door/window sensors than the IR sensors)
If you have a dedicated criminal targeting you, no alarm is going to render you safe. At best you may just have enough warning to arm yourself/prepare for the encounter.
It is also my understanding that alarms change the methodologies of the criminals targeting you. Really bold individuals may watch you to see if you arm the alarm while your home and before you go to bed. If you have a consistent gap in how you handle the alarm, they may exploit those moments of opportunity--even in broad daylight.
Sometimes I debate gating/fencing my property and making a mini-camp victory out of my perimeter.
p.s.
try to have a POTS for monitoring service. that's plain old telephone service.
why?
they are self-powered.
the new VoIP-compatible boxes work great, but won't work when the power is out.
use the wireless monitoring option (basically a cell phone hooked up to your alarm system) as a BACKUP to POTS.
POTS is fine, however any one can simply walk up to your SNI and unplug your landline...the case isn't even locked.
As for dogs, I am in favor of any dog, but personally I prefer Rhodesian Ridgebacks.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b353/vic303/IMG_0513-1.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b353/vic303/IM003006.jpg
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