armalite m15's...

[30 cal slut]

there's a bunch floating around in various configurations for $800, new in box.

after consulting da chart for the checklist of desired features ...

for the money, looks like a pretty good deal, given the circumstances.

am i missing something?

[rob_s]

If you can inspect, or have the right to inspect and refuse if bought online, I'd say go for it at that price.

Armalite is probably the second most frustrating brand on the Chart to keep track of as they are a constantly shifting target. One day they're staking things perfectly, then the next they're not, and then they're back to staking again.

Generally speaking though, outside of the BCG, they're within a feature or two of S&W.

[30 cal slut]

good stuff to know.

i guess it i am incorrect in assuming that all manufacturers will be consistent with their standards.

[jmart]

A reviewer did a test on one over at Weapon Revolution. Negatives were no staking on castle nut, minimal staking on key, and the finish on the interior of the receiver wore off (Armalite stated it was the dry film lube), but no functional issues over 1,000 rounds or so.

Armalite maintains they torque key screws to 55 in lbs (higher than milspec) and then secures with a high temp adhesive. This may be as effective as staking, but the downside is you are going on faith that they applied the adhesive. Regardless, $800 is a great price, especially in today's market and adding a couple of stakes is quick and easy.

I'd do a little research on TOS Armalite's board to get up to speed on how ARmalite marks barrels and things just so you can confirm it's actually all Armalite. That price sounds almost too good to be true. BTW, all Armalite barrels are 1 in 9" twist.

If recent mfg, it should come equipped with their tactical two stage trigger (funky looking disconnector with three notches on each side for a non-standard trigger spring's legs to set in), and the bolt ought to have a deprecated lug opposite the extractor cutout. If it lacks this, it's not an Armalite bolt.

[Jay Cunningham]

good stuff to know.

i guess it i am incorrect in assuming that all manufacturers will be consistent with their standards.

There are no standards except for Colt and FN because they must build weapons to the Technical Data Package - and you can't buy an AR from FN.

Supposedly Sabre Defense is going to start building TDP standard weapons for the gov't, but I'm not 100% sure about that one.

[rob_s]

Supposedly Sabre Defense is going to start building TDP standard weapons for the gov't, but I'm not 100% sure about that one.

They told me something similar, and that their commercial guns would be brought to the same standard back when I was initially researching the Chart.

[davemcdonald]

There are no standards except for Colt and FN because they must build weapons to the Technical Data Package - and you can't buy an AR from FN.
.


While that is true, those standards are for the military and have nothing to due with the price of tea in China nor standards for civilian weapons.

Colt does have the TDP that other manufactures do not but Colt also knows how to make a weapons run. I am sure there is a correlation between the two somewhere down the line but no weapon made for and released to the civilian market is manufactured to the TDP.

Since there is not a standard for civilian rifles, Rob's chart is the best guide to assist individuals in selecting a rifle that matches their criteria. (IMHO)

[JBnTX]

.... but no weapon made for and released to the civilian market is manufactured to the TDP.....


What exactly does that mean?
(strictly speaking Colt, not other brands)

Is there a difference in say, the upper receiver on an AR-15A2
and an upper receiver on a M-16A2?

What about Stocks, Handguards, Barrels, and other parts
excluding the lower receiver? I know there are differences
in the lower receivers, obviously.

I've always been told that Colt AR-15 parts (excluding the Lower)
were the exact same parts in an M-16?

Or, am I confusing the TDP with something else?

Thanks.

[rob_s]

The two most obvious are the barrel length (14.5" on issue guns, 16" on commercial), fire control group (burst or full auto on issue guns, semi only on commercial), and fire control group pins (.154" on issue guns, .170" on commercial).

[davemcdonald]

The TDP is the manufacturing "specs" that the Government and the manufacturer "agree" to for that that product. Colt has the TDP and knows the specs for the M4 and M16. If one part does not meet the spec then it does not meet the TDP.

as an example:
Rifle A, M4, made for DOD = has to be manufactured according to the TDP. A Government Inspector oversees the manufacturing and testing.

Rifle B, 6920, made for civilain market = no agreement/contract that the weapon meets the TDP or any other external spec. No Government inspector oversight.

Many who depend on weapons for a living will tell you that a 6920 is a quality weapon and great choice for a serious shooter. That doesn't change the fact that it isn't manufactured to the TDP of an M4 or M16.

[JBnTX]

.....
as an example:
Rifle A, M4, made for DOD = has to be manufactured according to the TDP. A Government Inspector oversees the manufacturing and testing.

Rifle B, 6920, made for civilain market = no agreement/contract that the weapon meets the TDP or any other external spec. No Government inspector oversight.
.....


I guess the question I'm really asking is about Colt's manufacturing process.
I'm not asking about obvious differences like fire control groups, pins and barrel
lengths, but how they are manufactured.

Judging by your answer, does Colt have two manufacturing lines, one for military
that's overseen by a TDP inspector and one for civilian ARs that's not?

Could the stock, handguards, and other parts on my AR-15 just as easily been
put on a M-16 or are they manufactured specifically for one or the other?

I've always thought that, except for the obvious mechanical differences, all the
parts for the AR-15 and M-16 were exactly the same and manufactured at the
same time, on the same machinery, by the same people.

So in essence, the Colt civilian 6920 is exactly the same as a Colt military M-4,
except for the barrel length, fire control group and pins?

And Colt and FN are the only two who can manufacture to that same quality
standard, not Armalite as the original poster asked?

[vaspence]

Seems to be interest in the Armalite line this weekend. I'd buy one if I were looking for another AR for $800. Same issues as any other Tier 2 AR (hope I used the term correctly). Check the bcg for proper staking and extractor, check the buffer spring length. In my experience, it should be ok after that. I have owned 3 of them and accuracy was always good with 55 grain.

$800 in this day is a fair price, I saw tons of overpriced ARs and AKs at the gun show this weekend.

[Eric]

A reviewer did a test on one over at Weapon Revolution. The review. (http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?t=322)

[scottryan]

What exactly does that mean?
(strictly speaking Colt, not other brands)

Is there a difference in say, the upper receiver on an AR-15A2
and an upper receiver on a M-16A2?

What about Stocks, Handguards, Barrels, and other parts
excluding the lower receiver? I know there are differences
in the lower receivers, obviously.

I've always been told that Colt AR-15 parts (excluding the Lower)
were the exact same parts in an M-16?

Or, am I confusing the TDP with something else?

Thanks.


You are correct.

Do not listen to "there is no mil spec for an semi auto AR-15" line.

[scottryan]

The TDP is the manufacturing "specs" that the Government and the manufacturer "agree" to for that that product. Colt has the TDP and knows the specs for the M4 and M16. If one part does not meet the spec then it does not meet the TDP.

as an example:
Rifle A, M4, made for DOD = has to be manufactured according to the TDP. A Government Inspector oversees the manufacturing and testing.

Rifle B, 6920, made for civilain market = no agreement/contract that the weapon meets the TDP or any other external spec. No Government inspector oversight.

Many who depend on weapons for a living will tell you that a 6920 is a quality weapon and great choice for a serious shooter. That doesn't change the fact that it isn't manufactured to the TDP of an M4 or M16.


They both use the exact same components (were legal) and your posting is clouding the issue.